In with the new.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

When they hosted the draft the popular rumor was Askarov was being pitched to get the Preds another first round pick and a top 10 at that.  I think his name has been out there for a while but the price is high. 
 

I don’t mind the idea of picking him up and like the idea of more insurance but I think it’s likely cost prohibitive at the moment. 

Read this after I replied to People, and you answered my question, so maybe an Andersson for Askarov would be fair value. I asked if the Flames could get more than that for Andersson, but maybe they'd think the Flames should add. 

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Askarov is likely available, if you are interested.

 

The D pipeline is fine.  Not all scoring D are going to stay with that role.  

Without even considering this draft, we have some LD that could be NHL'ers sooner than later.

Considering the max contract limit, you can't have every D drafted over a short period of time.

It makes managing their contracts and playing time difficult.

 

 

I am more focused on elite C in the next two drafts because that's fits the timeframe for coming out of the rebuild.  3-5 years and one would be fitting into the top spot.  I would prefer to get 1 OA this season to take it off the table for MTL.  Not that there's a chance that 2 OA wiuld go to them, just avoilding possible bad times.  We can win the 26 lotto too, and that would be all we would need.  LOL

 

Drafting C in these next two drafts is cool by me.      Talk about acquiring older C is another thing though.     

 

I would be interested in Askarov but I would not overpay for him.   He's clearly struggled, and that's fine, but the price should be reflective of that.  He also won't be that young by the time we're done our rebuild.

 

I didn't think Nabokov would go that high, good move by Colorado.   2025 nhl draft is looking good for goalies, if we keep stockpiling these picks we'll be able to address all our drafting needs imho.  

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

When they hosted the draft the popular rumor was Askarov was being pitched to get the Preds another first round pick and a top 10 at that.  I think his name has been out there for a while but the price is high. 
 

I don’t mind the idea of picking him up and like the idea of more insurance but I think it’s likely cost prohibitive at the moment. 

At what price?

You'd have to squeeze a 2nd from me. I wouldn't even do Poirier straight across. Kuznetsov and a 4th?

He came in with lots of fanfare. It really wasn't warranted.  Let's just not.

Nashville wants to move him, great, that's their problem.

We have Wolf. I don't know if any NHL goalie has ever had edges like Wolf. That kid is his own breed. Nobody's really seen his approach before. He'll only get better at it. One of a kind goalie. Vladar has endured a lot of criticism. He deserves a chance to come out of the volcano this team has been, and just play some hockey.

I think our G will be good. As for injury potential, oh well. I'll sign up. lol

There will be guys around wanting a paycheck.

My honest thoughts, this is going to be Wolf's team.

That cat is a Blockchaining pinball machine back there.

I'll go out on a limb and say nobody has really seen a goalie like this before. Who does he think he is, Felix Potvin? lol

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

At what price?

You'd have to squeeze a 2nd from me. I wouldn't even do Poirier straight across. Kuznetsov and a 4th?

He came in with lots of fanfare. It really wasn't warranted.  Let's just not.

Nashville wants to move him, great, that's their problem.

We have Wolf. I don't know if any NHL goalie has ever had edges like Wolf. That kid is his own breed. Nobody's really seen his approach before. He'll only get better at it. One of a kind goalie. Vladar has endured a lot of criticism. He deserves a chance to come out of the volcano this team has been, and just play some hockey.

I think our G will be good. As for injury potential, oh well. I'll sign up. lol

There will be guys around wanting a paycheck.

My honest thoughts, this is going to be Wolf's team.

That cat is a Blockchaining pinball machine back there.

I'll go out on a limb and say nobody has really seen a goalie like this before. Who does he think he is, Felix Potvin? lol

 

Wolf looks pretty good.  His ability to reset on his skates is incredible to be honest.  That or I've watched Markstrom play from his knees for too long... But Wolf is quick footed.  Elite speed inside his crease.

 

But still, some insurance is nice.

 

Again, I think NSH wants established players, not a 1st.

[cberg]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Read this after I replied to People, and you answered my question, so maybe an Andersson for Askarov would be fair value. I asked if the Flames could get more than that for Andersson, but maybe they'd think the Flames should add. 

At this point of time, Askarov is someone we do not need.  If an Anderson/Weegar/Kadri is traded, C should be the first and primary option.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, cberg said:

At this point of time, Askarov is someone we do not need.  If an Anderson/Weegar/Kadri is traded, C should be the first and primary option.

 

I'm not so sure goaltending is a lock.  We could use one more high end kid in the system.  G is too important.

 

Furthermore, we can draft a #1C in the next two years.

[conundrumed]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Wolf looks pretty good.  His ability to reset on his skates is incredible to be honest.  That or I've watched Markstrom play from his knees for too long... But Wolf is quick footed.  Elite speed inside his crease.

 

But still, some insurance is nice.

 

Again, I think NSH wants established players, not a 1st.

I'd wager that would be Coleman. I'm sure Coleman's pricetag would never be higher than right now.

[jjgallow]

12 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm not so sure goaltending is a lock.  We could use one more high end kid in the system.  G is too important.

 

Furthermore, we can draft a #1C in the next two years.

 

Wolf is definitely not a lock and even if he was a lock, no team will ever regret having two elite goalie prospects in their system.

 

Anything to avoid having a completed rebuild with a middle-aged sub-900 goalie and desperate management saying "sky's the limit"

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Wolf is definitely not a lock and even if he was a lock, no team will ever regret having two elite goalie prospects in their system.

 

Anything to avoid having a completed rebuild with a middle-aged sub-900 goalie and desperate management saying "sky's the limit"

 

I don't know that I would consider Asky an elite prospect.  He lost a lot in translation from the KHL rookie season.  

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I'd wager that would be Coleman. I'm sure Coleman's pricetag would never be higher than right now.

 

Really though.  Just keep Backlund for that veteran leadership and we're good.  Coleman and Kadri can go.  When time is right, even Weegar can go.

[robrob74]

35 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Really though.  Just keep Backlund for that veteran leadership and we're good.  Coleman and Kadri can go.  When time is right, even Weegar can go.

I agree with you in principle, we also need to get to the cap floor.

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't know that I would consider Asky an elite prospect.  He lost a lot in translation from the KHL rookie season.  

 

At this very moment I might not call him that either but he's not beyond recovery.

 

 

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Really though.  Just keep Backlund for that veteran leadership and we're good.  Coleman and Kadri can go.  When time is right, even Weegar can go.

 

Trading Coleman for Askarov (if that's what he was saying) might be fine from a perspective of getting value when it's high, and it wouldn't be a terrible trade as such, but I think Backlund, Kadri and Weegar have their place.  It gives us 3 years to get a viable 2C and 3C, plus a 1D.  I don't care how bad the rest of the team is for now, but banking on the team developong without them is pretty short sighted.  You end up like Arizona, not even as good as Buffalo bad is.

 

Coleman might be better used to get a couple of younger players and or prospects.  As risky as Wolf and Vladar are, they are capable of playing behind a team like we have. 

 

If it tuens out we have to trade in the future for a goalie, there is lots of examples of why it can work.  FLA and Vegas and Colorado didn't draft any of the goalies that got them a cup, so it's not that bad an idea to trade for a goalie if you find out you need one badly.  You don't always make the trade while you are starting the rebuild cycle.  Not while you have two that fit the bill.     

[jjgallow]

10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Trading Coleman for Askarov (if that's what he was saying) might be fine from a perspective of getting value when it's high, and it wouldn't be a terrible trade as such, but I think Backlund, Kadri and Weegar have their place.  It gives us 3 years to get a viable 2C and 3C, plus a 1D.  I don't care how bad the rest of the team is for now, but banking on the team developong without them is pretty short sighted.  You end up like Arizona, not even as good as Buffalo bad is.

 

Coleman might be better used to get a couple of younger players and or prospects.  As risky as Wolf and Vladar are, they are capable of playing behind a team like we have. 

 

If it tuens out we have to trade in the future for a goalie, there is lots of examples of why it can work.  FLA and Vegas and Colorado didn't draft any of the goalies that got them a cup, so it's not that bad an idea to trade for a goalie if you find out you need one badly.  You don't always make the trade while you are starting the rebuild cycle.  Not while you have two that fit the bill.     

 

Coleman for Askarov?

 

Hmm.  

 

Definitely like buying a lottery ticket.    I would....do it.  with some hesitation, I'd do it.

 

But I'd probably first ask the scouts if they saw a better alternative for bolstering the goalie situation.

 

The likely scenario on that trade is it ends up looking like we lose it.  Not a huge loss but a loss.

Askarov has had to transition and has had to overcome some injuries.   A change of scenery and some health could conceivably bring him back to form.    And then wow.

 

 

[cross16]

I have no problem trading Coleman (though would argue it's highly unlikely) and would actually advocate for it but worth pointing out that I don't think you are getting a prospect close to the level of Askarov for him.

 

Also worth noting the Preds are capped out. 

[MP5029]

On 7/28/2024 at 4:03 PM, robrob74 said:

I agree with you in principle, we also need to get to the cap floor.

Thats the easy part take on bad 1-2 year term contracts in exchange for additional picks…win win 

[MP5029]

On 7/27/2024 at 11:10 PM, The_People1 said:

 

I'm not so sure goaltending is a lock.  We could use one more high end kid in the system.  G is too important.

 

Furthermore, we can draft a #1C in the next two years.

Possibly not also not a lock on the #1 Ctr it’s been a tough fill for Cgy over the years…and if your drafting BPA and not tanking that chance at a #1 Ctr becomes more difficult 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

Possibly not also not a lock on the #1 Ctr it’s been a tough fill for Cgy over the years…and if your drafting BPA and not tanking that chance at a #1 Ctr becomes more difficult 

 

Ya would be awfully tough to draft a #1 C if we pick 10-14 next year.

[robrob74]

How do other teams draft them? Surely not every team who has a #1C has tanked? Larkin was drafted 15th overall. 
 

It is like RW, if you don't draft them it's not going to happen. We draft C here and there. 
 

in the Tkachuk draft there were a couple of them in Thompson and maybe Keller. We still got the best player. But just saying if we kept drafting LW we end up without a #1C.

 

Many argued Monahan was a #1. But I think a great #2 and can be a #1.

 

On top of that, they thought they had Bennett who was supposed to be that as well. So, it's a tough one.
 

Still gotta draft C. Gotta draft D, RW, RD etc. it's all important. Hell, even LD for a top pair is needed. LW is probably the easier spot to fill and they're a dime a dozen.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

How do other teams draft them? Surely not every team who has a #1C has tanked? Larkin was drafted 15th overall. 
 

It is like RW, if you don't draft them it's not going to happen. We draft C here and there. 
 

in the Tkachuk draft there were a couple of them in Thompson and maybe Keller. We still got the best player. But just saying if we kept drafting LW we end up without a #1C.

 

Many argued Monahan was a #1. But I think a great #2 and can be a #1.

 

On top of that, they thought they had Bennett who was supposed to be that as well. So, it's a tough one.
 

Still gotta draft C. Gotta draft D, RW, RD etc. it's all important. Hell, even LD for a top pair is needed. LW is probably the easier spot to fill and they're a dime a dozen.

 

Just play the odds and don't over think it.  There are no guarantees but the stats are the stats.  It's a curve.  Pick top 4 multiple times to improve the odds.

 

I make it sound so easy so everyone wants to say it's not that easy without realizing no matter what, the stats suggest it's easier to draft a #1 C in the top 4 than in the mid-teens.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Just play the odds and don't over think it.  There are no guarantees but the stats are the stats.  It's a curve.  Pick top 4 multiple times to improve the odds.

 

I make it sound so easy so everyone wants to say it's not that easy without realizing no matter what, the stats suggest it's easier to draft a #1 C in the top 4 than in the mid-teens.

I'm mostly in agreement. But what I am saying and just think there might be a time we need to target some centers. It's always supposed to be BPA. Maybe we need to target BCA. 

we

might have done that last year and may not even be the Best Big Player Available. But I guess to them it was. While maybe we should have already started targeting a center then. I wanted Sandin Pellikka. If I remember correctly, some wanted Moore? I think Barlow's name came up. It's a science.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

How do other teams draft them? Surely not every team who has a #1C has tanked? Larkin was drafted 15th overall. 
 

It is like RW, if you don't draft them it's not going to happen. We draft C here and there. 
 

in the Tkachuk draft there were a couple of them in Thompson and maybe Keller. We still got the best player. But just saying if we kept drafting LW we end up without a #1C.

 

Many argued Monahan was a #1. But I think a great #2 and can be a #1.

 

On top of that, they thought they had Bennett who was supposed to be that as well. So, it's a tough one.
 

Still gotta draft C. Gotta draft D, RW, RD etc. it's all important. Hell, even LD for a top pair is needed. LW is probably the easier spot to fill and they're a dime a dozen.

 

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/nhl/stats/2023-2024?position=c

 

Looking at the top 10, it's pretty bleak.  Mostly 1st overalls, all top picks.     Historically, it's a little kinder.    But, basically, scouting is getting better and center is easier to scout than D or goaltending.   One of those reasons, of course, is because forwards "mature" faster.

 

There are many ways to get a top center but we'd be fooling ourselves to not recognise the value in getting that top center at the draft.

[MP5029]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

How do other teams draft them? Surely not every team who has a #1C has tanked? Larkin was drafted 15th overall. 
 

It is like RW, if you don't draft them it's not going to happen. We draft C here and there. 
 

in the Tkachuk draft there were a couple of them in Thompson and maybe Keller. We still got the best player. But just saying if we kept drafting LW we end up without a #1C.

 

Many argued Monahan was a #1. But I think a great #2 and can be a #1.

 

On top of that, they thought they had Bennett who was supposed to be that as well. So, it's a tough one.
 

Still gotta draft C. Gotta draft D, RW, RD etc. it's all important. Hell, even LD for a top pair is needed. LW is probably the easier spot to fill and they're a dime a dozen.

Thing is, RS Ctrs are always high demand, unless there is a huge gap between BPA and the next best RS Ctr it seems to me the smart thing to do is draft nothing but RS Ctrs, they are a tradable commodity and rarely loose ground on them…they can be used to get D including RS D, G and Wing including the elusive RW.

 

personally that’s what I’d like to see Cgy focus in on is drafting nothing but RS Ctrs and RS D…unless the BPA gap is large this year’s draft is a good example going with the D cause the next best available Ctr was a huge gap.

[MP5029]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/nhl/stats/2023-2024?position=c

 

Looking at the top 10, it's pretty bleak.  Mostly 1st overalls, all top picks.     Historically, it's a little kinder.    But, basically, scouting is getting better and center is easier to scout than D or goaltending.   One of those reasons, of course, is because forwards "mature" faster.

 

There are many ways to get a top center but we'd be fooling ourselves to not recognise the value in getting that top center at the draft.

Yeah, pretty much Top 5 or bust on Ctrs…top 10 is not gonna cut it.

[sak22]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Just play the odds and don't over think it.  There are no guarantees but the stats are the stats.  It's a curve.  Pick top 4 multiple times to improve the odds.

 

I make it sound so easy so everyone wants to say it's not that easy without realizing no matter what, the stats suggest it's easier to draft a #1 C in the top 4 than in the mid-teens.

I would say top 4 is being generous as well.  Reality is some drafts don't even have 1, others will only have 1 and few like 2013 and 2015 have multiple, but there are more teams than true #1 C's personally I feel there is more only around 10 that I would feel you could win with.  Realistically most high ranked C's with max out as a #2 or be better suited on the wing in the NHL.  Not an easy position to project on 17 year olds like people are making it sound.