robrob74 Posted June 16 Report Share Posted June 16 5 hours ago, conundrumed said: I'd be fine with DeBrusk, but we have to flip him at TDL. Get ufa's we can flip for solid credits and build what you want to build. We shouldn't worry about handing out 5 year deals right now. Short term, older players that we can flip for assets. Nobody builds teams in FA. Use it to compile assets. DeBrusk is a 3rd line winger. So is Mangiapane, so what's the point unless you're moving Mangiapane? Another question. Should we sign bonafide 4th liners like Christian Fischer, or is that where we develop prospects? Even if some of those signings get you depth picks. That would be great. It would be a breath of fresh air for the Flames to get creative. I don't wanna develop prospects on the fourth line unless we are developing third liners. If we are developing Top 6ers, let's develop them by giving a lot of playing time on the farm. The problem with talented players is, they don't have the drive because they're naturally talented. It's rare to get both when drafting mid range... Imagine if the kid that got busted in Arizona had some oomph to his game? He'd be a high end player. How do you nurture try hard attitudes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 16 Report Share Posted June 16 3 hours ago, travel_dude said: I know the GM hates to override the coach, but sometimes you have to. Trade him for nothing if he isn't helping you win games or develop other players. You want a big dude to protect your goalie and young guys? Play Klapka. So the thing you might consider is that Zary/Pospisil may be ready for their own line with a good C. Use Kadri with Pelletier and Coronato. Backlund becomes the 4th line without calling it that. 5v5 the lines play almost equal. Special team decides the extra minutes. For that to work, you need a C that is young like Zary. Target one in the Markstrom trade. If that is the plan. thing is, Posps might be a pretty decent C. He played C on his National team at the Worlds and didn't miss a beat. Coach here just didn't try him because he liked what he was bringing. I think the radio guys said Posps likes playing C. They were just worried it would take away from the type of game he's been impactful in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 16 Report Share Posted June 16 1 hour ago, robrob74 said: thing is, Posps might be a pretty decent C. He played C on his National team at the Worlds and didn't miss a beat. Coach here just didn't try him because he liked what he was bringing. I think the radio guys said Posps likes playing C. They were just worried it would take away from the type of game he's been impactful in. It was mentioned during the season that both Zary and Pospisil had asked the coaching staff to play C and wants to play C long term. One solution is to play them both on the same line again except this time, they take turns playing Center. Rotate during the season or even within a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 16 Report Share Posted June 16 If the rumors are true on DeBrusk, and I can see where they are coming from, it’s not going to be a one year deal. He’ll get some term for sure so he isn’t coming here to be a flip he’s coming here to help the team win. not a smart move but I can see why the Flames would want to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 16 Author Report Share Posted June 16 2 hours ago, cross16 said: If the rumors are true on DeBrusk, and I can see where they are coming from, it’s not going to be a one year deal. He’ll get some term for sure so he isn’t coming here to be a flip he’s coming here to help the team win. not a smart move but I can see why the Flames would want to do it. Well, as a long term add, it may make sense. But only in the sense that when the Flames are again a good team, that he would help them win. The same type that Coleman was or is. I don't know that he is any worse than Mangiapane. I'm not trashing Mange, just that he isn't the 35 goal scorer he was one year. He probably would be similar in goals to Debrusk. But I think JD has parts to his game that Mange lacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted June 16 Report Share Posted June 16 9 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Well, as a long term add, it may make sense. But only in the sense that when the Flames are again a good team, that he would help them win. The same type that Coleman was or is. I don't know that he is any worse than Mangiapane. I'm not trashing Mange, just that he isn't the 35 goal scorer he was one year. He probably would be similar in goals to Debrusk. But I think JD has parts to his game that Mange lacks. I agree, love the compete in Mags but his size is the largest detriment to him. JD is similar little bigger and can win more puck battles than Mags. He coleman and Backs would make a good line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 16 Author Report Share Posted June 16 9 minutes ago, tmac70 said: I agree, love the compete in Mags but his size is the largest detriment to him. JD is similar little bigger and can win more puck battles than Mags. He coleman and Backs would make a good line. I was never in favor of trading for him, but as a UFA it might make sense. But again, there are only a few reasons to do it. One is to get him short term. Build up his stock and make an in-season or off-season trade. 2 years would be better than 4. Two is to get him longer term so that you have a player that builds out a roster you are trying to have. I mean, let's face it, we have Kadri, Huberdeau and Weegar long term. Have maybe 3-4 good years of all three. The rest of the team has to be firing on all cylinders by then to compete. Or we need to tear it down and trade Huberdeau and/or Kadri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 Other posters have mentioned "weaponizing cap space", specifically Goodrow and Pageau. I like the idea, more than spending money in UFA. NYR has traded all of their 2nd's for the next three years and all of their 3rd's in two of the next three. Three years left of a guy that just put up 12pts, has gotta cost a 1st. 30th pick and Goodrow for future considerations? I'd probably rather a 2025 1st though. Pageau is a much more effective player, if NYI would kick in a 3rd, I would be interested. A 2nd would be great though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 40 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: Other posters have mentioned "weaponizing cap space", specifically Goodrow and Pageau. I like the idea, more than spending money in UFA. NYR has traded all of their 2nd's for the next three years and all of their 3rd's in two of the next three. Three years left of a guy that just put up 12pts, has gotta cost a 1st. 30th pick and Goodrow for future considerations? I'd probably rather a 2025 1st though. Pageau is a much more effective player, if NYI would kick in a 3rd, I would be interested. A 2nd would be great though. IF conroy could make the team competitive by taking on a contract and get assets, I could see them doing it. I just have a feeling we are getting some UFA's that they feel will make the tram competitive and fill some voids as we transgress through the next stage. We need many parts I will not deny that, but unless the mind set changes this club will align itself in the UFA market and try to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 18 Author Report Share Posted June 18 1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said: Other posters have mentioned "weaponizing cap space", specifically Goodrow and Pageau. I like the idea, more than spending money in UFA. NYR has traded all of their 2nd's for the next three years and all of their 3rd's in two of the next three. Three years left of a guy that just put up 12pts, has gotta cost a 1st. 30th pick and Goodrow for future considerations? I'd probably rather a 2025 1st though. Pageau is a much more effective player, if NYI would kick in a 3rd, I would be interested. A 2nd would be great though. The buyout option costs them little other than some future cap pain. Pageau is a little more problematic, so it's possible they trade to avoid it. But I don't think the 2 years remaining gets you any great return. I'm curious how you construct the trade. What do we send the other way? We get Pageau and a pick for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 41 minutes ago, travel_dude said: The buyout option costs them little other than some future cap pain. Pageau is a little more problematic, so it's possible they trade to avoid it. But I don't think the 2 years remaining gets you any great return. I'm curious how you construct the trade. What do we send the other way? We get Pageau and a pick for what? Probably be like the Monahan trade “future considerations” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 18 Author Report Share Posted June 18 1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said: Probably be like the Monahan trade “future considerations” Uggg, don't remind me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 5 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said: Probably be like the Monahan trade “future considerations” Always reminds me of this little gem: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 Something to chew on.. for those who think Connie is dealing from weakness ..or not willing to not trade him at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 18 Author Report Share Posted June 18 25 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: Something to chew on.. for those who think Connie is dealing from weakness ..or not willing to not trade him at all.... Well, you can take this with a grain of salt. He's not going to let the media define his position, good or bad. Admitting or keeping mum, it would have made GM's believe that they just needed to wait it out and Connie would cave. What this also says is that there isn't a hard date for this to be done by. We traded Monahan from a position of weakness. I have seen lots of lesser players or really bad cap dumps get better returns. But it was a foregone conclusion Monahan was being traded to make way for Kadri. Every team knew it because of insiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 44 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: Something to chew on.. for those who think Connie is dealing from weakness ..or not willing to not trade him at all.... I'm guessing the offers for Markstrom has been bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 22 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Well, you can take this with a grain of salt. He's not going to let the media define his position, good or bad. Admitting or keeping mum, it would have made GM's believe that they just needed to wait it out and Connie would cave. What this also says is that there isn't a hard date for this to be done by. We traded Monahan from a position of weakness. I have seen lots of lesser players or really bad cap dumps get better returns. But it was a foregone conclusion Monahan was being traded to make way for Kadri. Every team knew it because of insiders. I figure it's one thing to make a generic statement (we aren't shopping him.. we have no urgency the trade him etc ) ..but totally another to put words (or lack thereof) directly attributable to another individual in a statement .. I don't see that as Connys style .. Id say that this is as close to gospel as u can get .. I'd be willing to believe they have asked him if he's open to moving if they come to him and to that he may have said yes..but from this I can believe he's never said he wants out..that's a big point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 10 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: I figure it's one thing to make a generic statement (we aren't shopping him.. we have no urgency the trade him etc ) ..but totally another to put words (or lack thereof) directly attributable to another individual in a statement .. I don't see that as Connys style .. Id say that this is as close to gospel as u can get .. I'd be willing to believe they have asked him if he's open to moving if they come to him and to that he may have said yes..but from this I can believe he's never said he wants out..that's a big point Keep in mind not all requests are made public, I think there were 2 things that bugged him during the season. And 1 was how he had to deal with the noise all year, that's a shot at the media, so I don't think its out of the question he wants to just spend his offseason back home with family and not have to hear his name constantly thrown around. I don't know, but I don't expect him back and don't expect much back for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 16 minutes ago, sak22 said: Keep in mind not all requests are made public, I think there were 2 things that bugged him during the season. And 1 was how he had to deal with the noise all year, that's a shot at the media, so I don't think its out of the question he wants to just spend his offseason back home with family and not have to hear his name constantly thrown around. I don't know, but I don't expect him back and don't expect much back for him. Oh I fully expect him to be moved .. and that he is open to being moved . My point is simply it will be done on the flames terms and if not , they are quite willing to not move him and there is no "trade demand" forcing the Flames hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 18 Author Report Share Posted June 18 25 minutes ago, sak22 said: Keep in mind not all requests are made public, I think there were 2 things that bugged him during the season. And 1 was how he had to deal with the noise all year, that's a shot at the media, so I don't think its out of the question he wants to just spend his offseason back home with family and not have to hear his name constantly thrown around. I don't know, but I don't expect him back and don't expect much back for him. It just comes down to the current value of a bona fide NHL starter. I get the age argument, but unless there is a better option out there, it will be supply and demand. I heard Binnington's name bandied about. He's 30 and hasn't exactly been a stud the last few years. Bit of a headcase. Grubauer expected to be bought out. I'm not saying it will be a bidding war, but there are more teams out there with questionable goaltending than just NJ. Connie saying he doesn't need to trade him says that we are not just going to take a crap offer to settle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 50 minutes ago, travel_dude said: It just comes down to the current value of a bona fide NHL starter. I get the age argument, but unless there is a better option out there, it will be supply and demand. I heard Binnington's name bandied about. He's 30 and hasn't exactly been a stud the last few years. Bit of a headcase. Grubauer expected to be bought out. I'm not saying it will be a bidding war, but there are more teams out there with questionable goaltending than just NJ. Connie saying he doesn't need to trade him says that we are not just going to take a crap offer to settle it. My point exactly.. I personally have no qualms about keeping him..mentoring Wolf.but If the deal makes a ton of sense for Calgary then ya I'm all in on moving him. I'm pretty sure he's a good gm who will listen on anybody..nobody is untouchable.. but it needs to make sense ." Getting better draft picks next year" is not a consideration for this management When you trade a UFA you take what you can get and hope bidding drives the price up.. when you have control, you can set the price. And especially for a new gm, it's imperative that GM's see you don't have a breaking point . I remember when Burke didn't trade camalleri at the tdl, cuz he didnt get the 2nd rounder he had set as a price .. sure he walked for nothing ..but it set a futire precedent that likely forced better offers on future deals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 10 hours ago, phoenix66 said: Something to chew on.. for those who think Connie is dealing from weakness ..or not willing to not trade him at all.... I think this is the flames doing damage control and trying to control the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 I think we are going to be quite underwhelmed when the Markstrom trade happens. When a player has an NMC, they can use it. Sounds like Markstrom is doing just that. Seems like he's honed in on NJ. Probably going to be a 2025 1st, lottery protected and Chase Stillman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 10 hours ago, cross16 said: I think this is the flames doing damage control and trying to control the message. Absolutely.. just that it's a pretty direct statement. Not a general one but one that puts to bed Markstrom driving the move out of town . Is he willing to move ? Sure.. will they move him? Sure if the deal is right . 9 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said: I think we are going to be quite underwhelmed when the Markstrom trade happens. When a player has an NMC, they can use it. Sounds like Markstrom is doing just that. Seems like he's honed in on NJ. Probably going to be a 2025 1st, lottery protected and Chase Stillman I don't think so. Like mentioned above , he's not requested or demanding a trade. Even if NJ is the only one he will waive for ,if Flames don't like the deal they just won't do it. Doesn't sound like they're committed to moving him, just willing to . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 16 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: Absolutely.. just that it's a pretty direct statement. Not a general one but one that puts to bed Markstrom driving the move out of town . Is he willing to move ? Sure.. will they move him? Sure if the deal is right . I don't think so. Like mentioned above , he's not requested or demanding a trade. Even if NJ is the only one he will waive for ,if Flames don't like the deal they just won't do it. Doesn't sound like they're committed to moving him, just willing to . Hopefully NJ trades for Ullmark. Then you’ll see how badly Markstrom wants to play on a better team. Maybe he’s willing to consider more destinations. I still think the Flames are going to trade him though. Having three goalies on the NHL roster next year is no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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