Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Or more.

 

His first two years here, he strung together good to great seasons.

3rd season big regression.

This season trending towards being his 2nd best season.

It's a team game.

Can't give him all the blame or all the praise.

We paid the extra year to get him over other teams.

He was the goalie to have when we were closer to being a powerhouse.

 

I'm not sold on Wolf, since he can't overcome his size.

He gives up the top 3rd of the net, so he needs to bulk up to fill up space.

An inch taller than Saros and 20 pounds lighter.

Markstrom at 6'6" still has to fight off players in his crease. 

 

So we are back to what makes sense to the team.

Trade him now and expose both Vladar and Wolf to the roles they need to be in?

Trade him in the summer with one last shot at making the playoffs this season?

Keep him and eventually Ryan Miller him?

[phoenix66]

8 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

WOW your too attached. There is really no reason to keep Markstrom…not unless you’re making the playoffs, cause the next 2 which he’s under contract definitely not…get the assets asap…Vladar can shelter wolf the rest of this season and next why keep

marstrom…nothing he can provide that the goalie coach can’t…going by your logic…those who can’t teach them why have Markstrom teach unless you think he can’t?

simply put , Wolf needs a safety net.. remove the pressure from the outside.. Markstrom does that .. now , you  wanna bring in  solid starter.. like a Talbot .. fine .. but the key is keeping the weight off his back while he learns the NHL game .. Vladar has his own struggles.. 

Wolf needs to be up here.. no doubt.. down there hes the guy with no competition or equal.. needs someone to show him how to take the next step without the anchor on his back 

[Kulstad]

18 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Because a goalie coach isn't living it. A heavily experienced goalie KNOWS how 400 different players have tricked them and keep trying the same tricks.

It's the old saying, "Those that can't do, teach".

 

10 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

WOW your too attached. 

A coach can tell you how to get from Point A to Point B.  An experienced "point A to point B traveller" can tell you about the rocks, potholes, and detours that are on the path from Point A to Point B

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

WOW your too attached. There is really no reason to keep Markstrom…not unless you’re making the playoffs, cause the next 2 which he’s under contract definitely not…get the assets asap…Vladar can shelter wolf the rest of this season and next why keep

marstrom…nothing he can provide that the goalie coach can’t…going by your logic…those who can’t teach them why have Markstrom teach unless you think he can’t?

WOW you're not.
🤷‍♂️

[cross16]

I think there are 2 things that get missed in this Markstrom discussion for me:

 

1. He is 34. I don't understand the angle of "why would we walk ourselves into goalie instability". Trading Markstrom doesn't walk you anywhere it just speed up the timeline that is already in place. 

2. All of this is assuming he wants to be here. I wouldn't be so sure of that. He sees where this team is going.

 

I can understand "wolf isn't ready" and "I don't want to tank" those are fair reasons to not be keen on trading him. But as I said above, it doesn't change what is aleady coming so why aren't the Flames getting value for someone?

 

And lastly if you don't trade him what's your plan to not give up a high draft pick next year?

 

Again, doesn't have to be this deadline but not moving Markstrom now or in the summer is IMO irresponsible management. 

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, Kulstad said:

 

A coach can tell you how to get from Point A to Point B.  An experienced "point A to point B traveller" can tell you about the rocks, potholes, and detours that are on the path from Point A to Point B

Great analogy!

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

bs. It's the one not racing to a minimum 5yr basement. Mercer would be more important than Markstrom? LOL

 

Wait, are you saying there's a small remote chance we can get Mercer for Markstrom?

 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

I don’t think he moves either…he should but I don’t think he will.

 

I’m wondering about Kylington and  Manji  mostly. Is there a contender looking for a. LW? it’s a tough call, Manji has been ramping up as of late, playing well..the team as a whole has really improved and impressed…but youth seems to be the name of the game…and the window is at least 2 years out so anyone on a 2-3 contract term should be considered to be moved…But not for picks, Cgy has enough of those what they need is young players who are NHL ready and have not peaked yet…they be had to get but they are what is needed now 
 

 

I don't think Kylington is going anywhere. I think you'll see him re sign post TDL. 

 

I think the Flames would move Mang if they got a good offer. Not sure that's going to happen though. 

[MP5029]

8 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Glass is empty?

Reality 

[cross16]

Toffoli going to WPG. 

 

That's a great fit for him. 

[travel_dude]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

I don't think Kylington is going anywhere. I think you'll see him re sign post TDL. 

 

I think the Flames would move Mang if they got a good offer. Not sure that's going to happen though. 

 

I think they may even announce today or shortly after TDL as well.

They like the player and the person.

Untapped potential in their minds I think.

 

Mange feels like a summer trade.  If they go there.

He's blocking that development spot and not really killing it.

If not him, then who else in the top 9?

 

[MP5029]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't think Kylington is going anywhere. I think you'll see him re sign post TDL. 

 

I think the Flames would move Mang if they got a good offer. Not sure that's going to happen though. 

I agree in whole…

 

then thought process for me is more related to reality of guys with 3 or less years and guys around 30 by that time, what’s the point of keeping them? 
 

I don’t think Manj moves till the summer but you gotta think he’s a guy you should consider for the right price at any time now, Kylington same, but I think you resign him then trade him 

 

while I’d be inclined to move Markstrom now, the offers may not be worth it, hence why most are thinking this summer…not bad but if there are some good offers for Markstrom that are close I think you work them…but only if Markstrom is willing to go.

[MP5029]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Wait, are you saying there's a small remote chance we can get Mercer for Markstrom?

 

Right? Im

with you! 

[cross16]

Just now, MP5029 said:

I agree in whole…

 

then thought process for me is more related to reality of guys with 3 or less years and guys around 30 by that time, what’s the point of keeping them? 
 

I don’t think Manj moves till the summer but you gotta think he’s a guy you should consider for the right price at any time now, Kylington same, but I think you resign him then trade him 

 

while I’d be inclined to move Markstrom now, the offers may not be worth it, hence why most are thinking this summer…not bad but if there are some good offers for Markstrom that are close I think you work them…but only if Markstrom is willing to go.

 

Oh i'm fully on board with trading Mang and even if all I got was mid round picks i'd do it. Open up a spot for Pelletier. 

 

I just don't think the Flames see it that way.

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

I think there are 2 things that get missed in this Markstrom discussion for me:

 

1. He is 34. I don't understand the angle of "why would we walk ourselves into goalie instability". Trading Markstrom doesn't walk you anywhere it just speed up the timeline that is already in place. 

2. All of this is assuming he wants to be here. I wouldn't be so sure of that. He sees where this team is going.

 

I can understand "wolf isn't ready" and "I don't want to tank" those are fair reasons to now be keen on trading him. But as I said above, it doesn't change what is aleady coming so why aren't the Flames getting value for someone?

 

And lastly if you don't trade him what's your plan to not give up a high draft pick next year?

How old is Fleury? Wasn't Roloson 36 during the oilers cup run? There are others. Goalies aren't skaters.

What if he's good at 36 and we extend?  What's up with these foregone conclusions? So many questions.

[cross16]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

How old is Fleury? Wasn't Roloson 36 during the oilers cup run? There are others. Goalies aren't skaters.

What if he's good at 36 and we extend?  What's up with these foregone conclusions? So many questions.

 

39 and hasn't been very good for the last 3-4 years

37. Had like 2 amazing months and then was a below avg starter after that. If those 2 are what you want to point out that we should keep him and we could still ahve a good starter, i'm not sure they are proving your point. If you can't find better than those guys to be your starter, you've got a problem in your hockey ops IMO. 

 

I get the point there is no guarantee Markstorm 2 years from now just suddenly sucks and i'm not making that point either.  The probability that Markstrom is going to be a good starter when he is a UFA is not in his favor. Why play the odds?

[conundrumed]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Wait, are you saying there's a small remote chance we can get Mercer for Markstrom?

 

The infatuation with Dawson Mercer echo chamber is nothing short of fascinating. We ripped Sharangovich already. The better of the 2. Is Dawson Mercer going to really explode here soon? What am I missing?

[travel_dude]

We only have a few more hours of this discussion.

When the season is over, we probably have it again.

Unless immediately following the TDL, his game falls off a cliff.

 

I will bring up last season as an example, post TDL:

5-4-2 and one game pulled.

 

[robrob74]

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I think there are 2 things that get missed in this Markstrom discussion for me:

 

1. He is 34. I don't understand the angle of "why would we walk ourselves into goalie instability". Trading Markstrom doesn't walk you anywhere it just speed up the timeline that is already in place. 

2. All of this is assuming he wants to be here. I wouldn't be so sure of that. He sees where this team is going.

 

I can understand "wolf isn't ready" and "I don't want to tank" those are fair reasons to not be keen on trading him. But as I said above, it doesn't change what is aleady coming so why aren't the Flames getting value for someone?

 

And lastly if you don't trade him what's your plan to not give up a high draft pick next year?

 

Again, doesn't have to be this deadline but not moving Markstrom now or in the summer is IMO irresponsible management. 

ya, I think we are moving next year's high pick.  I think it's just the way it goes. That Monahan deal is a killer. 

[cberg]

3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

The infatuation with Dawson Mercer echo chamber is nothing short of fascinating. We ripped Sharangovich already. The better of the 2. Is Dawson Mercer going to really explode here soon? What am I missing?

Well this is true, first two NHL years outstanding, but a definite decline this season.  Don't watch NJD so not sure if bypassed by others or what?

[Thebrewcrew]

NJ picked one spot ahead of Calgary and took Mercer, the Flames responded by trading down. Pretty clear they coveted him.

 

His first two seasons he posted 42 and 56pts.

 

A 22yr old RHS that can play centre is someone they should be interested in.

[travel_dude]

Toffoli traded to WPG, so that may signal the end of the Markstrom noise, for now.

If we were all in, we would do Markstrom, Mangiapane for Mercer, Holtz a 1st and Vanacek.

Maybe one additional piece coming back.

Mangiapane isn't living up to his contract year highs.

By himself, he doesn't get you a ton.

 

The interesting thing about Vanacek is that he has had 3 seasons sub 2.69 GAA.

Horrible playoffs.

 

This is not a trade that needs to happen now.

If we covet the players and the pick, then the GM is interested.

[robrob74]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

The infatuation with Dawson Mercer echo chamber is nothing short of fascinating. We ripped Sharangovich already. The better of the 2. Is Dawson Mercer going to really explode here soon? What am I missing?

possibility.... Mercer probably ends up better than the draft pick we'd get for Markstrom, in the long run. 
 

I am with cross that trading Markstrom keeps Montreal away from a good pick, keep them to Florida's pick. 
 

I dunno. I agree searching for  a starter sucked... but I also think the whole last 15 years has sucked, even with Kipper and Iggy. So to me, goaltending is a small part of the problem. I would prefer a Detroit Redwings with Osgood over a Flames team built around Kipper.

 

Kipper was my favourite player but like Carey Price, he masked a lot of flaws in the roster. I'd rather a good roster foundation and a very good goalie... 

 

there is no guarantees, and we also seen that with Markstrom last year. Albeit, your argument for him to mentor Wolf is a good one, so we should have had Wolf up this year and if Vladar wasn't getting any offers, play him in the A... waive him... that is what is wrong with this organization, not doing what is necessary at the proper times. 
 

 

[cberg]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

Toffoli traded to WPG, so that may signal the end of the Markstrom noise, for now.

If we were all in, we would do Markstrom, Mangiapane for Mercer, Holtz a 1st and Vanacek.

Maybe one additional piece coming back.

Mangiapane isn't living up to his contract year highs.

By himself, he doesn't get you a ton.

 

The interesting thing about Vanacek is that he has had 3 seasons sub 2.69 GAA.

Horrible playoffs.

 

This is not a trade that needs to happen now.

If we covet the players and the pick, then the GM is interested.

NJ probably resigned to no playoffs this year, but still may have interest in Markstrom to backstop next two years.  Probably could happen in Summer, with additional options for them then...

[robrob74]

We trapped ourselves with the three-headed goalie monster again this year, lose a Byron for what? Haha but still, we risk a good year of Wolf development under Markstrom for a guy who will never be a starter and is an average to poor overpaid backup. Sutter ruined Vladar...