phoenix66 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 6 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: Great work from his agent if he is pushing him a direction that will get him less money.... He wouldn't be my agent positioning me to get the least amount of offers. Not really.. the bidding will still happen but he's pushing him to where he has a higher probability of getting the 8th year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 9 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: Add to that..... How many Goalies did we go through after Kipper? Just trying to find one that would work... Almost as big a search as trying to find Iggy a center he could play with. And that's another part of it... Everyone is so sure Wolf is the next one . Hope he is , maybe he is .. but make him win the job.. Gibson was supposed to be all that too.. Look at Toronto..imagine if they had a goalie .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 32 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: Add to that..... How many Goalies did we go through after Kipper? Just trying to find one that would work... Almost as big a search as trying to find Iggy a center he could play with. 21 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: And that's another part of it... Everyone is so sure Wolf is the next one . Hope he is , maybe he is .. but make him win the job.. Gibson was supposed to be all that too.. Look at Toronto..imagine if they had a goalie .. Markstrom is 34 and the Flames are retooling. Let's not get carried away here. We need to focus on the 2027 team. Is Markstrom still on that team in 3 years? Wouldn't it be better to have Holtz+1st? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 We also have to remember how competent our GMs have been until BT got here. Even he didn't concentrate on goaltending. I'm also with Peeps where he is 34. ultimately, if Markstrom wants to be a Flame, let him be. If he wants to win and chase a cup, trade him. Do all of that behind closed doors, and don't talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 10 hours ago, JTech780 said: Knight would be a high upside gamble type return. The biggest issue I would have with him, is I don’t think you can go with Knight and Wolf in the NHL next year. I will say I am not 100% sold on Wolf’s ability at the NHL level, I am not saying he can’t do it, just that the games I have seen him in he looks not just small in the net he looks tiny. I don't get why you think we cannot go with Knight and Wolf combo next year. If Wolf is not proving he's ready then all the reason to have a backup plan in Knight. Also, I don't expect the Flames to be doing well anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said: Great work from his agent if he is pushing him a direction that will get him less money.... He wouldn't be my agent positioning me to get the least amount of offers. trade offers and contract offers are two different things. im talking about trade offers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 11 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said: Add to that..... How many Goalies did we go through after Kipper? Just trying to find one that would work... Almost as big a search as trying to find Iggy a center he could play with. going to be there in 2 years anyway. The idea of needing to keep Markstrom because of the difficult of finding another number 1 would make sense if Markstrom was in his prime. At age 34, the Flames are already in the process of needing to think of where there next number 1 is coming from, so why wait any longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 7 hours ago, robrob74 said: ultimately, if Markstrom wants to be a Flame, let him be. If he wants to win and chase a cup, trade him. Do all of that behind closed doors, and don't talk about it. And this is basically where I am .. if he asks out , fine... If we get a can't refuse type Offer, then ok.. go to him.. but only when it's in the drawer..nobody is untouchable.. but he has a NMC for a reason..at least we aren't actively shopping him.. But in the end .could be worse ...we could be NJ playing 5x5 with the goalie pulled ..Ottawa where fans are asking to trade Steutzle and Tkachuk..Pittsburgh is about to become the worst team in the league for a good spell . If Sid wants they should ship him to Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 9 hours ago, The_People1 said: I don't get why you think we cannot go with Knight and Wolf combo next year. If Wolf is not proving he's ready then all the reason to have a backup plan in Knight. Also, I don't expect the Flames to be doing well anyways. The only reason we're discussing Knight is to expedite a Florida Hanifin trade. There are probably other, better options. Secondly, Knight-Wolf combo assumes getting rid of both Markstrom and Vladar, neither of which has happened. Thirdly, if you are looking for a Wolf mentor for a season, either just keep Markstrom, or sell him off for assets and go with Vladar who has proven worthy in stretches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 8 hours ago, cross16 said: going to be there in 2 years anyway. Don’t understand why people seem to what to think Markstrom is some 25 year old goalie. He’s 34 that search for a new number one is coming, why wait for it? Agree, especially if you can get a couple primo assets for Markstrom. Losing a bunch of games isn't hurting the team's draft position either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 Many seem to believe that "tanking" for a high pick is somehow leading to a "losing" culture in the locker room. I guess having a "winning" non-tanking culture for 35 years (Flames), 25 years (Winnipeg) or 54 years (Vancouver) is deemed as success and is proof that non-tanking works? Frankly, whether tanking/rebuilding or not, it is extremely hard to win the Stanley Cup, likely the most difficult trophy in major sports today. How many examples of key injuries, a bit of "luck", bad officiating at a critical moment or the "hockey gods/bad bounce" have changed the course of a series? The Flames are not winning anything with their current team, so let's refill the cupboards now, while keeping remaining players accountable and professional... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, phoenix66 said: And this is basically where I am .. if he asks out , fine... If we get a can't refuse type Offer, then ok.. go to him.. but only when it's in the drawer..nobody is untouchable.. but he has a NMC for a reason..at least we aren't actively shopping him.. But in the end .could be worse ...we could be NJ playing 5x5 with the goalie pulled ..Ottawa where fans are asking to trade Steutzle and Tkachuk..Pittsburgh is about to become the worst team in the league for a good spell . If Sid wants they should ship him to Colorado If Ottawa's new ownership wants to ship out Tkachuk or Steutzle, the Flames should be listening and offering up the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 2 minutes ago, cberg said: Steutzle Stutzle Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 25 minutes ago, cberg said: Many seem to believe that "tanking" for a high pick is somehow leading to a "losing" culture in the locker room. I guess having a "winning" non-tanking culture for 35 years (Flames), 25 years (Winnipeg) or 54 years (Vancouver) is deemed as success and is proof that non-tanking works? Frankly, whether tanking/rebuilding or not, it is extremely hard to win the Stanley Cup, likely the most difficult trophy in major sports today. How many examples of key injuries, a bit of "luck", bad officiating at a critical moment or the "hockey gods/bad bounce" have changed the course of a series? The Flames are not winning anything with their current team, so let's refill the cupboards now, while keeping remaining players accountable and professional... Absolutely 💯. There is always luck involved.. too much for it to be a blueprint. Im all In for a retool. Move out those who don't wanna be here.. keep those that do who contribute.. bring in youth.. let them push the vets and learn from them at the same time .. keep internal competition. Your job is never safe ..losing is never acceptable , it's going to happen but there is never an excuse Hartley had the right idea but he veered away from it, "always earned never given" It's clear from the trades he's made .. a player for now..a player who's close ..and some picks to backfill the depth Every player who has been traded has either asked for it (zadorov and Toffoli) or had the chance and offer to resign right up to the last minute . We're already seeing the sprouts of it in a way.. everytime someone leaves..it bonds the ones they leave behind even more .. who knew Kadri was a leader ? Good player yes..but a leader? If you move a guy ..markstrom..Anderson.. anyone who wants to be here and is contributing.. that hurts that mindset you are working to create 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 12 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: Absolutely 💯. There is always luck involved.. too much for it to be a blueprint. Im all In for a retool. Move out those who don't wanna be here.. keep those that do who contribute.. bring in youth.. let them push the vets and learn from them at the same time .. keep internal competition. Your job is never safe ..losing is never acceptable , it's going to happen but there is never an excuse Hartley had the right idea but he veered away from it, "always earned never given" It's clear from the trades he's made .. a player for now..a player who's close ..and some picks to backfill the depth Every player who has been traded has either asked for it (zadorov and Toffoli) or had the chance and offer to resign right up to the last minute . We're already seeing the sprouts of it in a way.. everytime someone leaves..it bonds the ones they leave behind even more .. who knew Kadri was a leader ? Good player yes..but a leader? If you move a guy ..markstrom..Anderson.. anyone who wants to be here and is contributing.. that hurts that mindset you are working to create Yes, healthy competition fosters improvement and more earnest efforts. So far Conroy and the coaching staff seem to be doing that and we've seen several veery good results in the youth, plus the blossoming of a few vets with enhanced opportunities. Agree wholly with Kadri, Coleman too and even Huberdeau seems to be bonding well with Pelletier via their French language connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 I may be mistaken, but it seems there are dramatically different phases of the year for trades. At the TDL teams seem to throw away draft picks like candy, while at the draft they are gold. Alternately, actual roster players, especially young ones, are gold at the TDL but much more readily available at the draft. I'm not sure why, perhaps due to Cap issues, like strict adherence requirements in-season, but Cap flexibility over the Summer where keeping to the Cap is a non-issue, at least till season start in the Fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 4 Author Report Share Posted March 4 14 hours ago, phoenix66 said: I've said this many times before ..never quit..it's a mindset .. the players understand, the ones that left . Had to leave .. they left Conroy with no choice ..if anything they probabaly have a chip on their shoulders against those players .. they know they had a choice to stay, and chose to leave .. Playing to win and refusing to lose are 2 different things Quitting before the race is over is not a habit you want to instill in your team if you want a winning team .. And for what ? A higher lottery ticket in a d draft thats being projected after the top 10 or so a first is as good as a second? And no I'm not saying hes kipper .. I'm saying players like him and kardri etc right now are teaching these kids what it takes when they do get to that level And you have two players that have a chip. Those are the ones we know about. Hanifin or his agent or the informed rumour mill let it be known that he wants to go to Tampa. Neither him nor Markstom are going to show that on the ice though. The players don't look past the games at hand, but the GM does. Trades by this team are not meant to crater the team or the season; at least not by this team. They are there to make the team better in the short or long term. Trading a popular guy like Tanev sends shock waves to the team, but it was necessary. We didn't get back Tanev, so any chance the team had went out the window. And that was a very slim chance. Kadri has said he doesn't want to play in a rebuild. The reality is that we are in one. Two years in a row (since JH and MT left) and we are no closer to a playoff spot. No closer to turning it around and being a perennial contender. Markstrom doesn't give you 5 years of that if we started next season. We can't turn it around in his quality years, which may be just 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 1 minute ago, travel_dude said: And you have two players that have a chip. Those are the ones we know about. Hanifin or his agent or the informed rumour mill let it be known that he wants to go to Tampa. Neither him nor Markstom are going to show that on the ice though. The players don't look past the games at hand, but the GM does. Trades by this team are not meant to crater the team or the season; at least not by this team. They are there to make the team better in the short or long term. Trading a popular guy like Tanev sends shock waves to the team, but it was necessary. We didn't get back Tanev, so any chance the team had went out the window. And that was a very slim chance. Kadri has said he doesn't want to play in a rebuild. The reality is that we are in one. Two years in a row (since JH and MT left) and we are no closer to a playoff spot. No closer to turning it around and being a perennial contender. Markstrom doesn't give you 5 years of that if we started next season. We can't turn it around in his quality years, which may be just 2. No but Daryl once made the most brutally honest statement .. if you want to be a contender.. first you must be a perennial playoff team .. then you take the next step.. you don't just add players and say "ok time to win now".. that starts now .. playoffs are always the goal .. until they're just expected .. the only difference is that starts in the room.. you dont add players just to make the playoffs .. you add when you want that next level 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 2 minutes ago, travel_dude said: And you have two players that have a chip. Those are the ones we know about. Hanifin or his agent or the informed rumour mill let it be known that he wants to go to Tampa. Neither him nor Markstom are going to show that on the ice though. The players don't look past the games at hand, but the GM does. Trades by this team are not meant to crater the team or the season; at least not by this team. They are there to make the team better in the short or long term. Trading a popular guy like Tanev sends shock waves to the team, but it was necessary. We didn't get back Tanev, so any chance the team had went out the window. And that was a very slim chance. Kadri has said he doesn't want to play in a rebuild. The reality is that we are in one. Two years in a row (since JH and MT left) and we are no closer to a playoff spot. No closer to turning it around and being a perennial contender. Markstrom doesn't give you 5 years of that if we started next season. We can't turn it around in his quality years, which may be just 2. True with Kadri, and he may be secretly hoping for a trade, but by eye test it seems that he has been re-energized by Zary and Pospisil and may have a different viewpoint today. He has been put into a mentorship role with the young kids and seems to have embraced it and is thriving, better than he ever has. Just goes to show you never know a player's full potential until they are given new opportunity and ability to blossom in ways never previously allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 4 Author Report Share Posted March 4 1 minute ago, cberg said: I may be mistaken, but it seems there are dramatically different phases of the year for trades. At the trade TDL teams seem to throw away draft picks like candy, while at the draft they are gold. Alternately, actual roster players(especially young ones) are gold at the TDL but much more readily available at the draft. I'm not sure why, perhaps due to Cap issues, like strict adherence requirements in-season, but Cap flexibility over the Summer where keeping to the Cap is a non-issue, at least till season start in the Fall? The flexibility also puts you in the hole. The example I can think of is that we could have signed Kadri without moving Monahan. He made the deal to allow the signing, but everyone knew what was up, so we paid the price. Some teams are a little more slick than BT was, but once Johnny left and we traded Tkachuk, the writing was on the wall. Pre-draft but post TDL, picks are gold. Pre-TDL they are used to pay for a player where you don't want to subtract good players. Post draft, trades use the next year's picks if you have them, and it's a clean slate. The GM thinks his team will contend. It's all too weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 4 Author Report Share Posted March 4 4 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: No but Daryl once made the most brutally honest statement .. if you want to be a contender.. first you must be a perennial playoff team .. then you take the next step.. you don't just add players and say "ok time to win now".. that starts now .. playoffs are always the goal .. until they're just expected .. the only difference is that starts in the room.. you dont add players just to make the playoffs .. you add when you want that next level We are neither a playoff team nor a contender. When you are in that boat, the goal is to become a playoff team again, then take the steps after that. We are not a perennial playoff team in the lifespan of Markstrom's time here as a starter. It's different for a starter than players like Kadri, Hubey and Weegar. As their skills decline, their leadership and mentoring becomes more important. 2 of 3 of those guys are getting better. The 3rd is trying to find his way without a true C. Anyway, I'm not sure what we are really arguing about here. The players will play until the last game of the year. The GM will make trades he feels is necessary. We have some UFA's left to deal with and a goalie that could be dealt at the height of his value. I prefer good young players coming back, but that is not always what happens. We got prospects and a younger player in the Lindholm and Tanev trades. Real and potential picks. More of the same instead of a lotto ticket to get in the playoffs. 7 teams all bought lotto tickets to make the playoffs and 3 of them will win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, cberg said: Many seem to believe that "tanking" for a high pick is somehow leading to a "losing" culture in the locker room. I guess having a "winning" non-tanking culture for 35 years (Flames), 25 years (Winnipeg) or 54 years (Vancouver) is deemed as success and is proof that non-tanking works? Frankly, whether tanking/rebuilding or not, it is extremely hard to win the Stanley Cup, likely the most difficult trophy in major sports today. How many examples of key injuries, a bit of "luck", bad officiating at a critical moment or the "hockey gods/bad bounce" have changed the course of a series? The Flames are not winning anything with their current team, so let's refill the cupboards now, while keeping remaining players accountable and professional... Right on bro. I even suggest it's cyclical and natural evolution. Cores peak and then age out of prime. Then you take a few years to rebuild a young core through the draft and go at it again. No shame in "tanking" or completely wiping the slate clean and starting over. No matter what, it's hard to win the Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 32 Thoughts: A note on every team to open trade deadline week (sportsnet.ca) The tidbits. New Jersey will circle back in the offseason if a deal with Markstrom can't be made this week. Holtz has been dangled, Mercer has been a no go for them. Teams not valuing late firsts as much this year. Could've taken a first for Tanev but included a bad contract. And with Hanifin, Lightning top choice for the player but if it was easy it would've been done by now. So when do they reach the point of just dealing him wherever they get the best offer. Markstrom's disappointment more to do with being approached about a move and the team backing down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 Simple question: Where can I find the full list of players under control, including draft picks? CapFriendly only includes signed players, and NHL.com only NHL roster players...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 9 minutes ago, sak22 said: 32 Thoughts: A note on every team to open trade deadline week (sportsnet.ca) The tidbits. New Jersey will circle back in the offseason if a deal with Markstrom can't be made this week. Holtz has been dangled, Mercer has been a no go for them. Teams not valuing late firsts as much this year. Could've taken a first for Tanev but included a bad contract. And with Hanifin, Lightning top choice for the player but if it was easy it would've been done by now. So when do they reach the point of just dealing him wherever they get the best offer. Markstrom's disappointment more to do with being approached about a move and the team backing down. Apparently is was Edmonton offering a 1st for Tanev, but Calgary would’ve had to take a roster player. I thought I had read that it was a player with term as well that they had to take to get a 1st. I think Conroy was smart to take the Dallas deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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