2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Why? You also need a roster, and I have young, NHL-ready players that are becoming redundant. So my offer is a 2nd, Joe Veleno and Albert Johansson. Basically, a former 1st and 2nd (both NHL-ready) and a current 2nd.

So basically, I'm bailing you out here. You need to be a better negotiator. If you only want a single draft pick for a proven top 4 dman, I just shredded you. lol

It's still a top 50 pick, suddenly your best D prospect that is an actual dman that doesn't pretend to be a winger, and a real C, not a C/W. Because I'm feeling guilty about Blockchaining them out of real opportunities because, you know, I really needed to add Compher and overpay Ladd, Chiarot etc. And now I have Edvinsson, Sandin-Pellika, Danielson and Kasper to Blockchain them over with. I'm not happy with myself. lol

 

No.  We want that 17th to have a chance to pick Iginla.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

No.  We want that 17th to have a chance to pick Iginla.

 

So, why not offer the VAN pick + something instead of one of the few D we have.

And I don't necessarily mean to DET.

Ras is going to be at least top 4 for the next 6 years, within the cycle of developing a new D.

We have a couple of 2nds this year and possibly another 3rd if VGK loses round one.

 

If NJ doesn't make the playoffs, they will be pretty close to 17th.

1st + Holtz for Markstrom with no money retained.

Why is that better than the TDL (supposed) offer?

Because NJ may have gone on to a higher placement in the draft.

But if they don't make the playoffs now, then we know what the pick is.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

I think yesterday's win against SJS puts us out of reach to pass OTT, MTL, or ARZ.  We are trending 79-points now.  Those 3 teams have to win their remaining 4 games to pass us and that's not going to happen.  

 

BUF, NJD, and SEA are trending 81-points so should be out of reach too.  Flames likely finish 2-3 the final 5-games and sit with 8th overall pick (pending lottery).

 

8th is very good but also tricky.

 

Flames are in range to do something controversial and crazy like draft Tij Iginla.  8th also puts us out of range for Sam Dickinson who most view is the second best D after Levshunov.  So if we want a D, then we are picking from the next tier.

 

I don't personally have Dickonson as #2 for D, I think there will be good D available at 8.   But 6 would sure be better lol, agreed.

[travel_dude]

40 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I don't personally have Dickonson as #2 for D, I think there will be good D available at 8.   But 6 would sure be better lol, agreed.

 

Well I think we should only concern ourselves with 1st overall and something between 5 and 9th.

2nd-4th impossible.

Why I say that is whatever the best available after the other teams pick leaves us whatever is left.

How they rate the picks is as important as how we do.

 

Anyway, I am hopeful for #1, but ready to get 5-9th.

[jjgallow]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well I think we should only concern ourselves with 1st overall and something between 5 and 9th.

2nd-4th impossible.

Why I say that is whatever the best available after the other teams pick leaves us whatever is left.

How they rate the picks is as important as how we do.

 

Anyway, I am hopeful for #1, but ready to get 5-9th.

 

#1 is so happening

[Sarasti]

6 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

#1 is so happening

 

Yeeee! Manifest that Satoshi Nakamoto! 

[cberg]

32 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well I think we should only concern ourselves with 1st overall and something between 5 and 9th.

2nd-4th impossible.

Why I say that is whatever the best available after the other teams pick leaves us whatever is left.

How they rate the picks is as important as how we do.

 

Anyway, I am hopeful for #1, but ready to get 5-9th.

Yeah, looks like 5-9, unless we add a pick to trade up.  1st would be a nice surprise...

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I don't personally have Dickonson as #2 for D, I think there will be good D available at 8.   But 6 would sure be better lol, agreed.

 

What's your D rankings then?

 

1 Levshunov 

2 Dickinson 

3 Silayev 

4 Buium

5 Yakemchuk 

6 Parekh

7 Jiricek

 

I think Silayev is the hardest to rank and a wildcard in the top 10.  6'-7" skates like Zadorov.  That's rare.  Can't teach that.  He's also playing against men as a 17 year old and looks like he fits in no problem.  But still, is he the next Zadorov?  Owen Power?  Hedman?  Range is big.

 

Parekh is also tough.  He's all stats in my opinion.  One dimensional.

[cberg]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

What's your D rankings then?

 

1 Levshunov 

2 Dickinson 

3 Silayev 

4 Buium

5 Yakemchuk 

6 Parekh

7 Jiricek

 

I think Silayev is the hardest to rank and a wildcard in the top 10.  6'-7" skates like Zadorov.  That's rare.  Can't teach that.  He's also playing against men as a 17 year old and looks like he fits in no problem.  But still, is he the next Zadorov?  Owen Power?  Hedman?  Range is big.

 

Parekh is also tough.  He's all stats in my opinion.  One dimensional.

All these guys look pretty good, in different ways.  I expect before they are all gone there will be several forwards taken, including Celebrini, Demidov, Lindstrom and Iginla.  That is 11 players and we will almost certainly be able to get one of them.  
 

Normally there are some “duds” and who can tell at this point.  I’m only guessing, and would have to do some research but normally 1/3 to 1/2 don’t meet expectations, and at this point figuring out who those are will be critical, and the difference between a potentially great draft/retool and a lengthy/disastrous rebuild.

[cberg]

11 minutes ago, cberg said:

All these guys look pretty good, in different ways.  I expect before they are all gone there will be several forwards taken, including Celebrini, Demidov, Lindstrom and Iginla.  That is 11 players and we will almost certainly be able to get one of them.  
 

Normally there are some “duds” and who can tell at this point.  I’m only guessing, and would have to do some research but normally 1/3 to 1/2 don’t meet expectations, and at this point figuring out who those are will be critical, and the difference between a potentially great draft/retool and a lengthy/disastrous rebuild.

How can you tell?  You can’t but there may be some trends… Severe injuries? Both Celebrini and Lindstrom, at least were injured but apparently have come back strong.  US College signing issues?  Not saying it is an issue, but Celebrini… Russians/KHL issues?… Silayev, Demidov(?), Levshunov… Skating?  Yakemchuk?…. Defensive play?  Iginla?   

[The_People1]

48 minutes ago, cberg said:

How can you tell?  You can’t but there may be some trends… Severe injuries? Both Celebrini and Lindstrom, at least were injured but apparently have come back strong.  US College signing issues?  Not saying it is an issue, but Celebrini… Russians/KHL issues?… Silayev, Demidov(?), Levshunov… Skating?  Yakemchuk?…. Defensive play?  Iginla?   

 

The main thing is, all these kids need to bulk up, add between 20 to 30 lbs of muscle while trimming the fat off.  Part of drafting and scouting is to project the kid with this stuff added on top of what they already have.

 

Catton is 165 lbs or whatever.   That's just not going to cut it at the NHL level.  He needs to be 180 lbs.  And so how does the added weight affect his game which is supposed to be a puck carrying F and play driver?  Does it make him better or worse off because loss of agility and added weight?  Lots of things to project and take an educated guess.

 

Silayev, 6'-7" 207 lbs... He needs to play at 225 to 235 lbs for that frame.  But will that make him too big and slow?  What if he rounds out at 250 lbs?  Better?  What type of player would be be then?

 

Tij is 6'-0" 185... Maybe that's the right weight for what he tries to be?

 

And also, IQ.  Want to see fast thinking and anticipation one second into the future.  Don't want to draft players who are simply good because they are bigger and stronger than their 16 year old competition.  That won't get them far at the NHL level but those fancy stats are hard to resist.

[cberg]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The main thing is, all these kids need to bulk up, add between 20 to 30 lbs of muscle while trimming the fat off.  Part of drafting and scouting is to project the kid with this stuff added on top of what they already have.

 

Catton is 165 lbs or whatever.   That's just not going to cut it at the NHL level.  He needs to be 180 lbs.  And so how does the added weight affect his game which is supposed to be a puck carrying F and play driver?  Does it make him better or worse off because loss of agility and added weight?  Lots of things to project and take an educated guess.

 

Silayev, 6'-7" 207 lbs... He needs to play at 225 to 235 lbs for that frame.  But will that make him too big and slow?  What if he rounds out at 250 lbs?  Better?  What type of player would be be then?

 

Tij is 6'-0" 185... Maybe that's the right weight for what he tries to be?

 

And also, IQ.  Want to see fast thinking and anticipation one second into the future.  Don't want to draft players who are simply good because they are bigger and stronger than their 16 year old competition.  That won't get them far at the NHL level but those fancy stats are hard to resist.

Agree completely, and all these kids with all those considerations still are ranked high.  Even with all the study, many will not make it as strong NHLers.  Is it just a crap shoot or are there clues that can differentiate?  Another way to put it, are some teams significantly more successful than others, and if so, why?

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

Catton is 165 lbs or whatever. 

Zach Benson is currently listed at 170lbs...just sayin'.

[The_People1]

13 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Zach Benson is currently listed at 170lbs...just sayin'.

 

Like saying... to prove my point?  He's also been IR'd once this season and is about 10 lbs of muscle away from executing the game he wants to.

[conundrumed]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

No.  We want that 17th to have a chance to pick Iginla.

You can't trade a top 4RD on a value contract for only a 17th oa question mark. Teams would be falling over each other racing up Conroy's stairs.

[cberg]

31 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

You can't trade a top 4RD on a value contract for only a 17th oa question mark. Teams would be falling over each other racing up Conroy's stairs.

Ok, so in a one for one trade, how high a first rounder?

[conundrumed]

32 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Like saying... to prove my point?  He's also been IR'd once this season and is about 10 lbs of muscle away from executing the game he wants to.

18. Has played 68 games, not too shabby.

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, cberg said:

Ok, so in a one for one trade, how high a first rounder?

I'd be needing a top 5. Teams picking top 5 don't care about right now. So I don't have a dance partner, and I'm definitely not trading him one-for-one after that. I can trade him elsewhere for a player, a solid prospect and a later pick. I don't glamourize top 15 draft picks regarding one of my best players.

[The_People1]

41 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

18. Has played 68 games, not too shabby.

 

Points aren't really there yet.  Room to grow.  Not arrived completely.

 

But ya, good rookie year though.  Needs to bulk up this summer.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

You can't trade a top 4RD on a value contract for only a 17th oa question mark. Teams would be falling over each other racing up Conroy's stairs.

 

35 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'd be needing a top 5. Teams picking top 5 don't care about right now. So I don't have a dance partner, and I'm definitely not trading him one-for-one after that. I can trade him elsewhere for a player, a solid prospect and a later pick. I don't glamourize top 15 draft picks regarding one of my best players.

 

No way Andersson gets top 5 pick especially after you've been calling him average all season.  He's worth a little more than what Hanifin got us due to RHS RD.  DET could play Andersson on the 2nd pairing where he belongs and that's not top 5 pick material.

 

I personally think a 10-15th pick is possible depending on the right team.

[robrob74]

44 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'd be needing a top 5. Teams picking top 5 don't care about right now. So I don't have a dance partner, and I'm definitely not trading him one-for-one after that. I can trade him elsewhere for a player, a solid prospect and a later pick. I don't glamourize top 15 draft picks regarding one of my best players.

you might have Montreal or Ottawa. It's possible any of the teams ahead of us would be willing to trade for him. They're a step our three ahead of the flames and possibly ready to compete soon. Ottawa alone expected to make some steps toward playoffs. 

[robrob74]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

No way Andersson gets top 5 pick especially after you've been calling him average all season.  He's worth a little more than what Hanifin got us due to RHS RD.  DET could play Andersson on the 2nd pairing where he belongs and that's not top 5 pick material.

 

I personally think a 10-15th pick is possible depending on the right team.

I would say he's a bit more like a 7-12 range kind of player. And it might depend on the strength of draft where maybe in this one, one can argue for a higher pick. 

[The_People1]

42 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I would say he's a bit more like a 7-12 range kind of player. And it might depend on the strength of draft where maybe in this one, one can argue for a higher pick. 

 

That would be awesome to trade Andersson straight up to BUF for the 9th and we pick Tij.

[robrob74]

25 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

That would be awesome to trade Andersson straight up to BUF for the 9th and we pick Tij.

if there's a need in Buffalo, I can't see why not... and could it be a possible destination for Marky in some way or another? Or is their goaltending ok? 
 

are they like the murky area now where they need a few top up pieces? 
 

the Flames '04 team came together nicely. Ville N. was a huge add, Gelinas a proven performer, Simon too, and Kipper as a huge add that year. Small moves but big impacts. 
 

is there a move that can be had with Buffalo there? Maybe.

 

We should trade them Andersson, Markstrom and Mangiapane, or Kuzmenko. But we'd need some firsts for this year and next year. We'd retain on Mange, Marky, or Kuz... two firsts and a second for the three? Maybe a roster player lol... I dunno I feel like I'm lowballing ourselves though.

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

No way Andersson gets top 5 pick especially after you've been calling him average all season. 

Keep my frustrated vendettas out of this. lol

Conroy's done a bang-up job of securing good picks for us this year and a few future picks, clearing cap, etc.

Now the clamouring is on for, "we need another top 15 1st rder". So does every team, every year. That's why they never happen. But I'm sure we can do it. /s