2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[sak22]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I get it but at the same time, he will be tied to Jarome anywhere he goes.  Jarome is an NHL legend and so there's no escaping that.

 

Tkachuk was tied to his dad even though Keith never played in Calgary.  There's just no shaking that off.  He has to accept it and have fun with it.  And if these kids haven't learned to have fun with their last name then they aren't going to make it anyways. 

 

But in the end, what I'm really saying is, if the Flames are picking at 13 and Tij is BPA, then by no means shy away from taking him.  He's the best player (even though he's LHS LW).  One exception can be made here.

Keith and Jarome are two different players, Jarome was a first ballot hall of famer and Keith will always be hall of very good.  But still the difference in the two countries.  In Calgary Jarome has the legacy of the face of the franchise, almost every record, captain, the shift, etc., Tij will be compared against that because that's what people do.  Add in the rest of Canada and you get the 2 gold medals, and trailblazer for minorities, while down in the states he's far from a household name.  Matthew and Brady only have to live up to the reputation of all-star power forward, but even in their home town their dad is way down the list of sports legends, down the list even as far as Blues are concerned, Jarome is in the top 2 for Calgary.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Best case is Tij has already been selected. They will make it a circus either way. If we don't select him, well, here come the vultures with ridiculous slants that social media will recite as factual. lol Never fails.

 

Nah, if Flames picking 8th then there is no excuse for reaching for Tij.  There are better prospects at that range.

[robrob74]

I don't remember there being such a circus for Tkachuk, maybe I am not there. Not saying it wouldn't happen for Tij, as I think both situations would be completely different.  Like many say, Father is hockey legend in the city.

 

i look at Sven. Almost the moment he was taken he was given the keys to Calgary as the one to be the next in line. That's pressure, and can also load arrogance to the player. But Sven started to have a sense of entitlement after and whether that first interview was part of it or not, but I think it was riddled in problems as he was expected to take on the Iginla torch and run with it.

[conundrumed]

The latest consolidation situation. Helenius works for me!

https://thewincolumn.ca/2024/03/26/consolidated-2024-nhl-draft-rankings/

[cross16]

8 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

The latest consolidation situation. Helenius works for me!

https://thewincolumn.ca/2024/03/26/consolidated-2024-nhl-draft-rankings/

 

I might cry a little if Buium goes 1 pick before them..... Although Parekh is not exactly a consolation prize. 

 

Think my preference is Flames go D in this draft. I think your getting better value there. Not that the forwards are better, I just think the ceilings are higher with the D in this range. 

[robrob74]

47 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Keith and Jarome are two different players, Jarome was a first ballot hall of famer and Keith will always be hall of very good.  But still the difference in the two countries.  In Calgary Jarome has the legacy of the face of the franchise, almost every record, captain, the shift, etc., Tij will be compared against that because that's what people do.  Add in the rest of Canada and you get the 2 gold medals, and trailblazer for minorities, while down in the states he's far from a household name.  Matthew and Brady only have to live up to the reputation of all-star power forward, but even in their home town their dad is way down the list of sports legends, down the list even as far as Blues are concerned, Jarome is in the top 2 for Calgary.

for me it's the fact Tkachuk never played as a Flame and didn't accumulate all those accolades for them too. So you have Tkachuk getting asked about dad, but is it a lot? 
 

Iginla would be asked about how he can live up to dad's legacy...

 

i can see it both ways. The politically correct answer would be to say, I'm just here to forge my own way and do what I can to make the team and make the flames better...: 

 

But it's natural for people to question how they'll fill shoes of predecessors. 

[travel_dude]

55 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I might cry a little if Buium goes 1 pick before them..... Although Parekh is not exactly a consolation prize. 

 

Think my preference is Flames go D in this draft. I think your getting better value there. Not that the forwards are better, I just think the ceilings are higher with the D in this range. 

 

I would be okay with one of those D that seem to have crazy offensive numbers so far.

Bulium, Parekh, Yakemchuk.  

There doesn't "seem" to be any C's in the top 10 other than the top 2.

If we don't win the lotto, then go D then C (VAN pick).

Maybe Hage over Boisvert?

I only say that based on the rankings in that article.

I don't know.

We really need a high end C.  

Hage is only a late 18.

[robrob74]

The hope is Jersey maintains being ahead and might help them stomach a Markstrom trade if they're at 11 or 12 instead of below 10, which might get us a C&D in the 1st half of round one at the draft.

[sak22]

28 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

The hope is Jersey maintains being ahead and might help them stomach a Markstrom trade if they're at 11 or 12 instead of below 10, which might get us a C&D in the 1st half of round one at the draft.

I'm of the belief that if NJ's 2024 1st was on the table a month ago then Markstrom would be a Devil now.  If it wasn't on the table then it won't be at the draft.  People need to re-evaluate their initial disappointments with most of the trades that have happened in the last year and shelter their expectations for a Markstrom return.

[The_People1]

45 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

The hope is Jersey maintains being ahead and might help them stomach a Markstrom trade if they're at 11 or 12 instead of below 10, which might get us a C&D in the 1st half of round one at the draft.

 

Ya for sures.  Hope NJD keeps winning.  Easier to trade Markstrom for a 14th overall than an 8th overall.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I'm of the belief that if NJ's 2024 1st was on the table a month ago then Markstrom would be a Devil now.  If it wasn't on the table then it won't be at the draft.  People need to re-evaluate their initial disappointments with most of the trades that have happened in the last year and shelter their expectations for a Markstrom return.

 

There was a point before TDL that we believed to be a playoff team hopeful.

7-3 record in February.

A first for your starter on the table?  At least that.

But at the time, NJ's pick was no better than the Flames.

And having Markstrom would have meant a playoff team pick.

 

The value of retained salary over 2.5 years can't be understated.

It's not your typical TDL trade, it's that and a futures trade.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

I'm of the belief that if NJ's 2024 1st was on the table a month ago then Markstrom would be a Devil now.  If it wasn't on the table then it won't be at the draft.  People need to re-evaluate their initial disappointments with most of the trades that have happened in the last year and shelter their expectations for a Markstrom return.

 

Also, NJD's 2024 1st was thought to be in the 20s... now that it's in the low teens, the price isn't the same anymore.  It's going to cost Markstrom + Canucks's 1st for NJD 12th or something like that.

[sak22]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Also, NJD's 2024 1st was thought to be in the 20s... now that it's in the low teens, the price isn't the same anymore.  It's going to cost Markstrom + Canucks's 1st for NJD 12th or something like that.

I don't know if it was thought to be in the 20's New Jersey they would've needed to play exceptional hockey to climb that many teams.  Right now I'm having an easier time believing my kids stories about the Easter bunny existing than I do about grown ups who believe a 34 year old goalie, not far removed from being one of the worst starters in the league, will get the greatest return for anyone at that position in the last 20 years.  I won't dispute my kids because it's fun for them, I will dispute Markstrom because its annoying and when the eventual return is underwhelming the complaining is even worse.

[conundrumed]

44 minutes ago, sak22 said:

believing my kids stories about the Easter bunny existing

Uhmmmm, what are you saying, exactly??😭

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

56 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I don't know if it was thought to be in the 20's New Jersey they would've needed to play exceptional hockey to climb that many teams.  Right now I'm having an easier time believing my kids stories about the Easter bunny existing than I do about grown ups who believe a 34 year old goalie, not far removed from being one of the worst starters in the league, will get the greatest return for anyone at that position in the last 20 years.  I won't dispute my kids because it's fun for them, I will dispute Markstrom because its annoying and when the eventual return is underwhelming the complaining is even worse.

Markstrom for the Easter Bunny and a case if creme eggs.

 

Do it.

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I might cry a little if Buium goes 1 pick before them..... Although Parekh is not exactly a consolation prize. 

 

Think my preference is Flames go D in this draft. I think your getting better value there. Not that the forwards are better, I just think the ceilings are higher with the D in this range. 

I'm thinking about 6 of them are likely top 20, which that list implies. If we would just lose out and let SEA and PITT beat us, than we'd be right there. Then of course ARI shows up in their ugly Christmas sweaters and gawd only knows where that'll go.

[sak22]

10 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Markstrom for the Easter Bunny and a case if creme eggs.

 

Do it.

No way, I hate the creme eggs.  Cadbury Mini Eggs and nothing else.

[sak22]

23 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Uhmmmm, what are you saying, exactly??😭

I didn't say it didn't exist, just I haven't seen it.  Just like I haven't seen a great return for a mid 30's goalie in the past few years.

[conundrumed]

Clear evidence...

[conundrumed]

Oof, I totally forgot. We could finish 8th worst, then have the lottery go Detroit Red Wings on us and knock us down.

Buzzkill moment.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Oof, I totally forgot. We could finish 8th worst, then have the lottery go Detroit Red Wings on us and knock us down.

Buzzkill moment.

Well Detroit owners are not friends with Betman the way Dallas, Pittsburgh and Chicagos' are. 
 

Hope Betman has forgiven us for the whole Wideman thing. 

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

The latest consolidation situation. Helenius works for me!

https://thewincolumn.ca/2024/03/26/consolidated-2024-nhl-draft-rankings/

 

RHS C/RW works for me.  But I don't want to leave Yakemchuk on the board though.  

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I might cry a little if Buium goes 1 pick before them..... Although Parekh is not exactly a consolation prize. 

 

Think my preference is Flames go D in this draft. I think your getting better value there. Not that the forwards are better, I just think the ceilings are higher with the D in this range. 

 

Buium looks like an elite playmaking D.  High IQ and top end vision.  But a bit on the smaller side and he's LHS LD.  But he's the new age D and will excel in the transition game.

 

I wouldn't be mad if we took him over Parekh and Yakemchuk but I would prefer Yakemchuk.

 

Parekh highlight packages look underwhelming.  There's not much "hockey" to his game.  Nonstop "he shoots he scores"... An unreal wrist shot.  Quick, accurate, deadly, etc... but where's the rest of his game?  Can't defend.  Doesn't hit.  Gets caught standing and watching the play a lot.  When Parekh is not scoring he's not doing anything.

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Buium looks like an elite playmaking D.  High IQ and top end vision.  But a bit on the smaller side and he's LHS LD.  But he's the new age D and will excel in the transition game.

 

I wouldn't be mad if we took him over Parekh and Yakemchuk but I would prefer Yakemchuk.

 

Parekh highlight packages look underwhelming.  There's not much "hockey" to his game.  Nonstop "he shoots he scores"... An unreal wrist shot.  Quick, accurate, deadly, etc... but where's the rest of his game?  Can't defend.  Doesn't hit.  Gets caught standing and watching the play a lot.  When Parekh is not scoring he's not doing anything.

 

Totally fair. I have a bias towards to the transition dmen and the more "modern" ones. 

 

It's not that I dislike Yakemchuk I just don't see him having a high ceiling in the pro game. I don't think his skating is good enough. 

[Thebrewcrew]

If the Flames can pick in the top 13, I think they'll be very happy with the player they get.

 

 

On those consolidated rankings, I would love if Parascak was still on the board in the late 1st. 10-16 range is too early, but the value late in the first is incredible.