2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[jjgallow]

13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

What's your D rankings then?

 

1 Levshunov 

2 Dickinson 

3 Silayev 

4 Buium

5 Yakemchuk 

6 Parekh

7 Jiricek

 

I think Silayev is the hardest to rank and a wildcard in the top 10.  6'-7" skates like Zadorov.  That's rare.  Can't teach that.  He's also playing against men as a 17 year old and looks like he fits in no problem.  But still, is he the next Zadorov?  Owen Power?  Hedman?  Range is big.

 

Parekh is also tough.  He's all stats in my opinion.  One dimensional.

 

travelling right now, but will give this some thought.   I'm not fully ready to give a fun list and won't be for another month lol.   But I see a lot of players in there who can't score goals, even in junior level.  To me, those guys move 10 spots down right away, no matter how advanced they are at everything else, and now matter how gigantic they are.     

 

The list gets smaller after that.

 

I still think our chances of a D being BPA are very high.   But, the bpa is more important to me than the D.    When you look back at past drafts, guys who seemed all very "similar" at the time, ended up wildly different.

 

We win this by finding the guy who becomes a legend.   Or at very least avoiding the dud. 

 

As long as we make wise asset accumulation decisions, the positional issues can be solved later through trades if necessary.

 

Again, this is all very hypothetical, reality is that we have a high chance of D being bpa.

[conundrumed]

20 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

But I see a lot of players in there who can't score goals, even in junior level.  To me, those guys move 10 spots down right away, no matter how advanced they are at everything else, and now matter how gigantic they are.

Who doesn't love a good Zadorov quote?

"In Russia, if I skated the puck over the red line, I'd probably be kicked off the team".

- on going to the London Knights and needing to be re-programmed for NA hockey

[MP5029]

7 hours ago, robrob74 said:

if there's a need in Buffalo, I can't see why not... and could it be a possible destination for Marky in some way or another? Or is their goaltending ok? 
 

are they like the murky area now where they need a few top up pieces? 
 

the Flames '04 team came together nicely. Ville N. was a huge add, Gelinas a proven performer, Simon too, and Kipper as a huge add that year. Small moves but big impacts. 
 

is there a move that can be had with Buffalo there? Maybe.

 

We should trade them Andersson, Markstrom and Mangiapane, or Kuzmenko. But we'd need some firsts for this year and next year. We'd retain on Mange, Marky, or Kuz... two firsts and a second for the three? Maybe a roster player lol... I dunno I feel like I'm lowballing ourselves though.

All very true…and this draft in 2024 out side the top 10 is as unpredictable as any draft has been.  One could even 

argue it’s unpredictable out side of the top 5.

 

this is to say, picks in this years draft are probably the most likely to move by comparison to last year and even in 2025.  In 2023 and in 2025 deeper and more talented players over all.  
 

with that being said, I could Conroy making a move with the VCR pick…maybe trading for a young player? Again, totally depends on what other teams are thinking….heck for that matter our pick in the top 10 could be in play for a young player ready to break out. There are teams in need of futures, but I’m not

Sure those teams have any budding young prospects in the tier Cgy is looking for…Maybe LA? Bos, Col, LVK are all in need of young fresh blood and picks but also lack anything worthy of a 1st round pick…VCR may have something else to add but that’s doubtful I think after the Lindholm deal they are gonna shy away from Cgy for a bit, also I think they are in the same boat as the Bos’s, Col’s, LVK’s they are more in the adding a NHL impact player or particular need category with a young core ready to make Some noise.

 

on the same token…the opposite could be true with players on our team being wanted by another team…which could

result in a few picks being added in this years draft…there are a number of teams on the cusp of being serious threats so adding picks is not ideal for their window of opportunity, NJD, NYI, Buf, Ott and Det are kinda those teams with solid young core just needing a little add be it D or G in most of Those cases.  Ott is a bit of an odd one, they are missing G for sure but most importantly they seem to be missing that intangible heart and soul warrior guy.

 

hard to call, but Conroy has shown a preference towards young NHL or near NHL ready prospects, over draft picks.

 

with that in mind I wouldn’t be surprised to see him move picks for NHL or

near NHL ready prospects, or

players being blocked on their current team depth, I’m just not sure what teams are in need of picks with young prospects or young NHL players being blocked by depth.

 

 

[cberg]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Keep my frustrated vendettas out of this. lol

Conroy's done a bang-up job of securing good picks for us this year and a few future picks, clearing cap, etc.

Now the clamouring is on for, "we need another top 15 1st rder". So does every team, every year. That's why they never happen. But I'm sure we can do it. /s

 

I know you are Pooh-poohing the idea, fine, it’s a long shot.  

Question1: If Flames were able to draft a potential #1D AND a potential #1C/F wouldn’t that be better/great?

 

Question2: Aren’t there players, near-future UFAs that would be good trade targets?

[MP5029]

I’d be OK with moving a draft pick to either Pit for Yagar or Col for Ritchie 

 

both solid Ctrs, and both Pit and Col are in need of picks as their pools are thin.

 

Pit may be looking for NHL players and I could see Manji being a fit for them. Not sure they let a draft pick go, rather they would probably want a pick they are kinda looking at adding now while they have Crosby and adding picks….I

wonder if:

 

To Cgy Yagar

 

To pits Manji+ Vrc 2024 first 

 

this to me seems like a good move for both teams.  I’m not sure if Pits would do that but…that’s a move I think works for Cgy 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Who doesn't love a good Zadorov quote?

"In Russia, if I skated the puck over the red line, I'd probably be kicked off the team".

- on going to the London Knights and needing to be re-programmed for NA hockey

 

Russians are a different story lol.  To a point.

[redfire11]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

I’d be OK with moving a draft pick to either Pit for Yagar or Col for Ritchie 

 

both solid Ctrs, and both Pit and Col are in need of picks as their pools are thin.

 

Pit may be looking for NHL players and I could see Manji being a fit for them. Not sure they let a draft pick go, rather they would probably want a pick they are kinda looking at adding now while they have Crosby and adding picks….I

wonder if:

 

To Cgy Yagar

 

To pits Manji+ Vrc 2024 first 

 

this to me seems like a good move for both teams.  I’m not sure if Pits would do that but…that’s a move I think works for Cgy 

Instead of trading decent players to get picks I would be more inclined to trade the Van 1st for a decent player.  No coin flip on the pick, you get what you pay for.  ARI is desperate for 1st round picks  and I would be inquiring on how many of their 2nd rounders (they have 10 in the next 3 years) they would be willing to trade for the Van 1st. We could then trade the acquired 2nd rounders and cap space for positional needs in our organization.  On a limited view I trust Conroy more on trades than draft choices. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, redfire11 said:

Instead of trading decent players to get picks I would be more inclined to trade the Van 1st for a decent player.  No coin flip on the pick, you get what you pay for.  ARI is desperate for 1st round picks  and I would be inquiring on how many of their 2nd rounders (they have 10 in the next 3 years) they would be willing to trade for the Van 1st. We could then trade the acquired 2nd rounders and cap space for positional needs in our organization.  On a limited view I trust Conroy more on trades than draft choices. 

 

Of course but the catch is, nobody is going to give you a proven prospect (or prospects trending well) for a late first round pick where they have to develop from scratch again.  Getting much older players is more realistic.  We can trade the VAN 1st for a 2nd pairing D or 2nd line Forward.  But then again, I personally prefer to roll the dice and draft.  

[sak22]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Of course but the catch is, nobody is going to give you a proven prospect (or prospects trending well) for a late first round pick where they have to develop from scratch again.  Getting much older players is more realistic.  We can trade the VAN 1st for a 2nd pairing D or 2nd line Forward.  But then again, I personally prefer to roll the dice and draft.  

Where does Alex Newhook fit?  While not exactly a prospect he wasn't a much older player either.  Though getting Newhook cost Montreal #31 which they got from Florida (a pick that went from 17th to 31st) and their own 2nd which was 37th.  I think its the type of trade I could see Conroy going for as he has mentioned 23 or under C's being something he really wanted.  Its really just a matter of who is available.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Of course but the catch is, nobody is going to give you a proven prospect (or prospects trending well) for a late first round pick where they have to develop from scratch again.  Getting much older players is more realistic.  We can trade the VAN 1st for a 2nd pairing D or 2nd line Forward.  But then again, I personally prefer to roll the dice and draft.  

 

The flip side to that is that a team may decide they have too many prospects they have to deal with and a blockage at the AHL and NHL level.  They might not be that impressed with a prospect's development and feel he needs a change.  This kind of deal might just happen on the draft floor when player X is available to the Flames 2nd pick and a team desperately wants it.  

 

Think about it this way.  We have a team with little prospects in the 18-20 range that seem to be definite game changers.  Adding a nice 1st round pick gives us a potential middle 6 player eventually.  Unless we are adding some top players in this and the next few drafts, we are not building that new generation.  

[The_People1]

20 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Where does Alex Newhook fit?  While not exactly a prospect he wasn't a much older player either.  Though getting Newhook cost Montreal #31 which they got from Florida (a pick that went from 17th to 31st) and their own 2nd which was 37th.  I think its the type of trade I could see Conroy going for as he has mentioned 23 or under C's being something he really wanted.  Its really just a matter of who is available.

 

I would say Newhook (originally 16th overall) wasn't trending very well.  And so got my moved for a 31st overall pick.

 

And that's what we would be looking at.  Former busts and reclamation projects.  Is Newhook considered a "decent player" that is better than just using the pick?  I would just make the pick and roll the dice.

[sak22]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I would say Newhook (originally 16th overall) wasn't trending very well.  And so got my moved for a 31st overall pick.

 

And that's what we would be looking at.  Former busts and reclamation projects.  Is Newhook considered a "decent player" that is better than just using the pick?  I would just make the pick and roll the dice.

On pace for 50 points this year and near career highs despite missing over 20 games.  Worth noting Newhook has had a better career than anyone drafted in the 20's that year, actually has more points than anyone drafted 25-31 in 2018, and can look beyond those years, I'd say there is under 20% chance of finding a player as good as Newhook with the Canucks pick and under 10% of finding better.  So I don't hate the idea of moving a late first for someone you know can play now, has team control and still has upside.  Crazy to me that we are coming to conclusions on players at 23, while still BTCing about the St. Louis', Savard's and Bennetts who were all older when the team moved on from them.

 

Not saying I'd do a move like that, just don't hate it if the target is right and do think it will be a target of the team vs. an older player.

[The_People1]

38 minutes ago, sak22 said:

On pace for 50 points this year and near career highs despite missing over 20 games.  Worth noting Newhook has had a better career than anyone drafted in the 20's that year, actually has more points than anyone drafted 25-31 in 2018, and can look beyond those years, I'd say there is under 20% chance of finding a player as good as Newhook with the Canucks pick and under 10% of finding better.  So I don't hate the idea of moving a late first for someone you know can play now, has team control and still has upside.  Crazy to me that we are coming to conclusions on players at 23, while still BTCing about the St. Louis', Savard's and Bennetts who were all older when the team moved on from them.

 

Not saying I'd do a move like that, just don't hate it if the target is right and do think it will be a target of the team vs. an older player.

 

Sure, Newhook was a successful reclamation project.  But they don't all work out like that.  For example, would you want to trade the Canucks first for Dylan Holloway former 13th overall?  He might turn into a 50-point player with the Flames.

 

Or just draft and find the next Pastrnak?

[sak22]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Sure, Newhook was a successful reclamation project.  But they don't all work out like that.  For example, would you want to trade the Canucks first for Dylan Holloway former 13th overall?  He might turn into a 50-point player with the Flames.

 

Or just draft and find the next Pastrnak?

Don't see Holloway and Newhook on the same level, Holloway is struggling to crack the Oilers, Newhook was basically stuck in the same type of situation as we had with Bennett, Colorado just pulled the trigger on a move sooner.  I think the odds are greater of finding the next Morgan Klimchuk than Pastrnak.

 

I'm just doing the devils advocate, I don't love the trade options on the surface, and am fully prepared for the pick to not amount to anything significant.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Sure, Newhook was a successful reclamation project.  But they don't all work out like that.  For example, would you want to trade the Canucks first for Dylan Holloway former 13th overall?  He might turn into a 50-point player with the Flames.

 

Or just draft and find the next Pastrnak?

 

How many Pasta's are available every draft year at 25+?

Who did he play with in his D+1 year?  25 year old Marchand and 30 year old Bergeron.

On another team he may have been more of an afterthought.

 

I never thought Holloway was a good pick.

Name some others that I may be more interested in.

Holtz for a 1st?  Bad example.

[travel_dude]

OOT scoreboard played for us a bit.

Ottawa won in SO

NJ won in regulation.

BUFF won in regulation

Flyers win in regulation.

MTL loses in OT (booo), but NYI wins.

 

East is so tight with 5 teams still in play.

 

 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

OOT scoreboard played for us a bit.

Ottawa won in SO

NJ won in regulation.

BUFF won in regulation

Flyers win in regulation.

MTL loses in OT (booo), but NYI wins.

 

East is so tight with 5 teams still in play.

 

Wish ARZ, OTT, and MTL still had 5-games to go.  But we running out of runway to rise in draft order.  We still have 2 easy wins coming against SJS and ANA.

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Wish ARZ, OTT, and MTL still had 5-games to go.  But we running out of runway to rise in draft order.  We still have 2 easy wins coming against SJS and ANA.

We have zero easy wins. lol

[conundrumed]

15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I never thought Holloway was a good pick.

Name some others that I may be more interested in.

Holtz for a 1st?  Bad example.

All of them? McMichael, Ceulemans, Barron, Stenberg, Rinzel. All great picks. All project to be solid NHL players. A wealth of RDmen and 2 Cs. I'd take any of them. Scouting is way more competitive now than looking back even 10 years ago. Those are all great picks more recently. Great options at 25-50 or 60 also. Then it's kind of a crapshoot, where you should really be looking more at raw potential, athleticism and where the kid is headed for further development, imo.

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Wish ARZ, OTT, and MTL still had 5-games to go.  But we running out of runway to rise in draft order.  We still have 2 easy wins coming against SJS and ANA.

 

I'm glad you are confident.  Our 2 game B2B have been tough outs.

SJS will likely have zero reason to need to lose in game 82, so they will pay us back for the last loss.

ARI is 50/50, and this will be after the Oilers overlook them, like they tend to do.

 

OTT plays MTL, so best situtation is OTT wins in OT.

 

Anyway, it only really matters to dropping to 7-5th.

Not really huge lotto differences there.

[cross16]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Wish ARZ, OTT, and MTL still had 5-games to go.  But we running out of runway to rise in draft order.  We still have 2 easy wins coming against SJS and ANA.

 

Flames would likely have to go at least 3-1 to move behind Seattle. I don't see that happening.

 

Like wise, Ottawa probably needs to win all 3 and they play NY and Boston. 

 

Guess we'll see but 8th is looking pretty likely to me which I'm fine with. Obviously higher is better but 8th was a big of a ledge for me in this draft. Not to much in terms of talent but I feel like 8 is the best spot to react in this draft. I think 5-8 could see a surprise or too, likely a Berky Cotton or Lindstrom and 8 put you in the best position to have someone slide. I think once you get to 9 and outside that's less likely. 

[jjgallow]

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Flames would likely have to go at least 3-1 to move behind Seattle. I don't see that happening.

 

Like wise, Ottawa probably needs to win all 3 and they play NY and Boston. 

 

Guess we'll see but 8th is looking pretty likely to me which I'm fine with. Obviously higher is better but 8th was a big of a ledge for me in this draft. Not to much in terms of talent but I feel like 8 is the best spot to react in this draft. I think 5-8 could see a surprise or too, likely a Berky Cotton or Lindstrom and 8 put you in the best position to have someone slide. I think once you get to 9 and outside that's less likely. 

 

What's your rankings right now?

 

Personally, I want the Flames to draft a D regardless if Catton or Lindstrom is there at 8.  We will see.  8 is too early to draft Tij but I also want the Flames to draft Tij.  

[The_People1]

From what I can gather: player and range picked.

 

Celebrini 1-1

Demidov 2-4

Levshunov 2-5

Lindstrom 3-5

Dickinson 4-7

Silayev 4-10

Eiserman 5-12

Catton 6-9

Parekh 6-10

Buium 6-12

Yakemchuk 6-12

Helenius 8-13

Iginla 9-15

Greentree 12-15

Jiricek 12-19

[cross16]

29 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

What's your rankings right now?

 

Personally, I want the Flames to draft a D regardless if Catton or Lindstrom is there at 8.  We will see.  8 is too early to draft Tij but I also want the Flames to draft Tij.  

 

I don't really rank anymore. Just don't have the capacity to view and analyze. 

 

From what I have looked at, I agree that D is the better value in this draft but someone is always going to reach for a center or 2 which is why I think 8 is a good ledge to be on. 

 

Assuming Dickinson isn't available Zeev Buium is my favorite Dman.