2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[The_People1]

On 4/6/2024 at 11:57 PM, bosn111 said:

As a RD, Ras holds a high value in trade. Yes it would be a loss to move him, but getting a top 15 pick for him, or more in a package, holds more value in my opinion for down the road than keeping him.

 

Also, I think he's peaked.  I don't see Andersson ever becoming a #1 D.  He's a complementary hybrid that can play in most situations but dominates in none of them.  He can ride shotgun to a true #1 D or hold down a 2nd pair role.

 

Is that worth a top 15?  I think he's worth more than Hanifin only because of his RHS.  Otherwise, that's about the return we should expect.

[Thebrewcrew]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Also, I think he's peaked.  I don't see Andersson ever becoming a #1 D.  He's a complementary hybrid that can play in most situations but dominates in none of them.  He can ride shotgun to a true #1 D or hold down a 2nd pair role.

 

Is that worth a top 15?  I think he's worth more than Hanifin only because of his RHS.  Otherwise, that's about the return we should expect.

I would entertain a Andersson deal at the next TDL.

 

Two playoff runs at a really manageable number. Andersson also hits UFA at age 30, probably doesn’t make sense to sign a 30yr old long term.

 

 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I would entertain a Andersson deal at the next TDL.

 

Two playoff runs at a really manageable number. Andersson also hits UFA at age 30, probably doesn’t make sense to sign a 30yr old long term.

 

Yups.  What to do with Andersson?  He's not a core player to build around.  He's not young himself.  And lastly, how do the Flames look in 4/5 years when the new core has a chance to compete?  How does Andersson fit into that?

[cross16]

I've said it before but I think if you want to trade Andersson it should be done this summer. Between his age, contract, RS, I think he is someone a wide range of teams (both teams already contending and planning to do so) would be interested in. I think the potential for an increased supply of trade partners is better than the off chance you get someone to panic at the TDL (which I think is becoming less and less of a thing now anyway). He has a 6 team no move starting next year, so you run the risk of shrinking your suitors at the trade deadline. 

 

I'd be shopping him but I don't think the Flames will. I think they'll start having some discussion on a contract next year to see what his appetite is to stay and if there isn't interest than perhaps he's moved next summer but I doubt he is before that. 

[The_People1]

 

[jjgallow]

47 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

sounds like he's trying a different approach from last year

[cberg]

Conroy can make his list and use it, just hope he is able to get another top12 pick to come out of the first night with a high level D and F/C.

[conundrumed]

18 hours ago, cross16 said:

I've said it before but I think if you want to trade Andersson it should be done this summer. Between his age, contract, RS, I think he is someone a wide range of teams (both teams already contending and planning to do so) would be interested in. I think the potential for an increased supply of trade partners is better than the off chance you get someone to panic at the TDL (which I think is becoming less and less of a thing now anyway). He has a 6 team no move starting next year, so you run the risk of shrinking your suitors at the trade deadline. 

 

I'd be shopping him but I don't think the Flames will. I think they'll start having some discussion on a contract next year to see what his appetite is to stay and if there isn't interest than perhaps he's moved next summer but I doubt he is before that. 

Edvinsson-Andersson has a nice ring to it. lol

He needs to understand Detroit drivers a lot better, though. Don't be telling me what to do with your fancy traffic lights...

[redfire11]

So let's say the hockey gods shine down on us and the Flames win 1st OA. The question is are we ready to put Celebrini into the lineup full time next year. If so, Conroy will be out spending cap money like a drunken Notley on UFA's. If we don't play Celebrini 1st year he will be gone first chance. 

If we do win 1st OA that would push SJ or CHI to 3rd or 4th. Would then a trade with SJ for their 3rd and Pitts 1st 15 OA or Chi 4th OA plus TB 1st 21st OA + a 2nd be a better long term play,

Tough to trade an elite 1st OA but throwing these 1st OA players out 1st year has shown consistently over the last few years injuries to these players. 

 

[The_People1]

19 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

So let's say the hockey gods shine down on us and the Flames win 1st OA. The question is are we ready to put Celebrini into the lineup full time next year. If so, Conroy will be out spending cap money like a drunken Notley on UFA's. If we don't play Celebrini 1st year he will be gone first chance. 

If we do win 1st OA that would push SJ or CHI to 3rd or 4th. Would then a trade with SJ for their 3rd and Pitts 1st 15 OA or Chi 4th OA plus TB 1st 21st OA + a 2nd be a better long term play,

Tough to trade an elite 1st OA but throwing these 1st OA players out 1st year has shown consistently over the last few years injuries to these players. 

 

Of course draft him if we have the chance.  He's comparable to Eichel/Fantilli level.  Play him next year if his body is NHL ready.

 

All these worries you are taking about can happen to any player so no need to worry at all.

 

Also Celebrini is noticeably better than Demidov and Levshunov so for SJS/CHI to trade up, it's going to cost the 2nd/3rd overall pick + 3 first round picks lotto unprotected.

[conundrumed]

50 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

So let's say the hockey gods shine down on us and the Flames win 1st OA. The question is are we ready to put Celebrini into the lineup full time next year. If so, Conroy will be out spending cap money like a drunken Notley on UFA's. If we don't play Celebrini 1st year he will be gone first chance. 

If we do win 1st OA that would push SJ or CHI to 3rd or 4th. Would then a trade with SJ for their 3rd and Pitts 1st 15 OA or Chi 4th OA plus TB 1st 21st OA + a 2nd be a better long term play,

Tough to trade an elite 1st OA but throwing these 1st OA players out 1st year has shown consistently over the last few years injuries to these players. 

 

I wouldn't be concerned. Take him. If he makes the team out of camp, perfect. There's really no safety net left when you select 1st oa. Pretty much forget everything else, just take the best player. It's not very close this year.

The injury issue isn't much of an issue, generally normal hockey injuries.

[redfire11]

56 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

He's comparable to Eichel/Fantilli level.

I didn't realize Celebrini was a franchise changer

[The_People1]

6 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

I didn't realize Celebrini was a franchise changer

 

Supposedly, yes.

 

He put up numbers that are up there with Eichel/Fantilli.  Much better offensive player than Matty Beniers.  Higher ceiling than Slafkovsky/Wright.  He projects to be a franchise game changer.  Should be as good as Stutzle.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Edvinsson-Andersson has a nice ring to it. lol

He needs to understand Detroit drivers a lot better, though. Don't be telling me what to do with your fancy traffic lights...

 

Would/should DET trade the 17th overall for Andersson straight up?

[sak22]

2 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

I didn't realize Celebrini was a franchise changer

His stats line up with Fantili as a freshman and below Eichel, but what's really impressive to me is that he was 17 for his entire freshman year, just being able to attend university for for a full year as a 17 year old would require being smart enough to finish school early, to be one of the best at a sport at 17 is a different story especially when your playing guys in their early to mid 20's.

[cross16]

Think it depends on how you define franchise changer. I personally reserve that for a more elite category that I don't think Celebrini is in. That's like your Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, McDavid, Bedard, Hedman category. 

 

I think Cellebrini is more like Jack Hughes, Brayden Point type. Extremely talented player, can do a bit of everything, and if developed properly will settle in as a number one center.  I have him a level below someone like Eichel, at least for me. 

[MP5029]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Supposedly, yes.

 

He put up numbers that are up there with Eichel/Fantilli.  Much better offensive player than Matty Beniers.  Higher ceiling than Slafkovsky/Wright.  He projects to be a franchise game changer.  Should be as good as Stutzle.

Not enough for

me…if we won the lottery I’d draw that down and nab another pick in 2025 (first of course) and draft Tij…at the rate Tij is going I’d bet on him being more of

a franchise changer than anyone else…gotta give him the benefit of his dad’s genes 

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

Think it depends on how you define franchise changer. I personally reserve that for a more elite category that I don't think Celebrini is in. That's like your Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, McDavid, Bedard, Hedman category. 

 

I think Cellebrini is more like Jack Hughes, Brayden Point type. Extremely talented player, can do a bit of everything, and if developed properly will settle in as a number one center.  I have him a level below someone like Eichel, at least for me. 

 

Very very hard to guage this new US College thing happening in the first round, not as much data points as I'd like.    You've got Eichel and Hughes to work with, yes, and that's...about it lol.     Neither of which I would describe as being developed properly.      

 

He's smaller than Eichel, he doesn't have the RHS advantage.

 

Here's the kicker for me.    Like Hughes and Eichel, he's already got an injury history.  He has a Sam Bennett style shoulder.    That opens up a larger conversation because Eichel, Hughes, Celebrini all arrived as damaged goods from US College.   All 3 targeted way too young, and paid a price.   I get the whole not wanting enforcers in US College, but then the referees and the administrators need to do their jobs.

 

That's the decider for me.   Combine the injury history with starting a rebuild with a forward being a Really, really, really bad idea, and the reality that he's not generational, I would trade that pick for Tij and a top, top D prospect.  Like, top.   With emphasis on that D prospect, Tij being the extra.

[rocketdoctor]

6 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I would trade that pick for Tij and a top, top D prospect.  Like, top.   With emphasis on that D prospect, Tij being the extra.

 

And then we complain for 10 years that we never gave Iginla a decent center. 😄

 

Take the BPA at that is Celbrini by miles this year.  Not convniced that any of the D are going to be bona fide number 1 Dmen.  But hey what do we know.

 

 

[conundrumed]

13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Would/should DET trade the 17th overall for Andersson straight up?

Why? You also need a roster, and I have young, NHL-ready players that are becoming redundant. So my offer is a 2nd, Joe Veleno and Albert Johansson. Basically, a former 1st and 2nd (both NHL-ready) and a current 2nd.

So basically, I'm bailing you out here. You need to be a better negotiator. If you only want a single draft pick for a proven top 4 dman, I just shredded you. lol

It's still a top 50 pick, suddenly your best D prospect that is an actual dman that doesn't pretend to be a winger, and a real C, not a C/W. Because I'm feeling guilty about Blockchaining them out of real opportunities because, you know, I really needed to add Compher and overpay Ladd, Chiarot etc. And now I have Edvinsson, Sandin-Pellika, Danielson and Kasper to Blockchain them over with. I'm not happy with myself. lol

[MP5029]

On 4/9/2024 at 2:22 AM, jjgallow said:

sounds like he's trying a different approach from last year

They are wrong Tij is playing Ctr or at least he’s been listed as a Ctr 

[conundrumed]

46 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

They are wrong Tij is playing Ctr or at least he’s been listed as a Ctr 

Without taking massive strides in his 200' game, he's a winger. Not unlike dear old dad, he is NOT committed to playing D. He's a goal-scorer. He'd NEED a Lindholm-type C with him.

Unless, of course, one day he wakes up and commits himself to at least try to play D.

That is the knock on him. Just like dear old dad.

We need to stop romanticizing. Jarome was lazy af on the D-side of the puck. Nobody ever mistook him as a good backchecker. He floated back, constantly. It's because they deplete all of their energy in the O-zone, not because they're a terrible person. lol

You need goals to win, but you also need to offset your goal-scorer with solid 2-way guys. Every Kane NEEDED a Toews, or she's a disaster. Look at Detroit right now. They can't offset both DeBrincat and Kane with 1 Larkin. The guy that you want to be your main play-driver. Rock, meet hard place.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Without taking massive strides in his 200' game, he's a winger. Not unlike dear old dad, he is NOT committed to playing D. He's a goal-scorer. He'd NEED a Lindholm-type C with him.

Unless, of course, one day he wakes up and commits himself to at least try to play D.

That is the knock on him. Just like dear old dad.

We need to stop romanticizing. Jarome was lazy af on the D-side of the puck. Nobody ever mistook him as a good backchecker. He floated back, constantly. It's because they deplete all of their energy in the O-zone, not because they're a terrible person. lol

You need goals to win, but you also need to offset your goal-scorer with solid 2-way guys. Every Kane NEEDED a Toews, or she's a disaster. Look at Detroit right now. They can't offset both DeBrincat and Kane with 1 Larkin. The guy that you want to be your main play-driver. Rock, meet hard place.

 

 

I actually thought he was okay in his youth but really went hard on the cherry picking as he got older.

 

Anyway....  

 

You need it all.   I dunno why people are worried about centers when we don't have elite D in the oven.

 

We generally need elite prospects.    So first and foremost no matter position they are I hope we get that in the  draft.

[zima]

Without iggy and Kris we woulkd not of had a sniff at the cup and I enjoyed watching him play. How many elite players would drop the gloves as much as he did? He stuck up for his line mates all the time and I appreciate that in a player. In other words if Tij is half the player iggy was I'm all in.

[The_People1]

I think yesterday's win against SJS puts us out of reach to pass OTT, MTL, or ARZ.  We are trending 79-points now.  Those 3 teams have to win their remaining 4 games to pass us and that's not going to happen.  

 

BUF, NJD, and SEA are trending 81-points so should be out of reach too.  Flames likely finish 2-3 the final 5-games and sit with 8th overall pick (pending lottery).

 

8th is very good but also tricky.

 

Flames are in range to do something controversial and crazy like draft Tij Iginla.  8th also puts us out of range for Sam Dickinson who most view is the second best D after Levshunov.  So if we want a D, then we are picking from the next tier.