2023/24 Roster/Lines

[travel_dude]

Wolf up to NHL.

Not an emergency loan, so it may just be to give Marky a day not on the ice.

Likely Vladar starts, which is fine.

May be a week that Wolf gets another start though.

[travel_dude]

Arg, Markstom is week to week with a broken finger.

[travel_dude]

Expect him to move to IR at the least.

 

EDIT

Never mind.

No point right now to do that.

If we make moves or activate a bunch, we may need to.

[robrob74]

29 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Arg, Markstom is week to week with a broken finger.

Francis, in his article reporting the incident, said he made a nice save but the shot got him in a vulnerable spot, and when skating off Markstrom was bleeding a lot. 
 

to me, players tend to miss games due to some kinds of cuts, so I assumed he'd be out for a few weeks to heal that at least. We all know, hockey equipment is good for lingering germs.

[robrob74]

I think the Zary situation shows that when you play guys with similar talent he can succeed. Would he have the same success on the 4th line and making him work his way up the lineup like we've done in the past? 
 

Put young players who can play with guys who can play. I think it's a difference I see this year but our team can do it more often! But we see things like this with other teams. Insulate the guys coming in and play them with guys where you want them. 
 

Tkachuk should have been up the lineup sooner. Some other guys like Bennett should have been up

for longer too.

[robrob74]

For me, I'd try Zary at C soon, see how it works.

 

 

Huberdeau, Zary, Lindholm 

(play Lindholm and Zary at C)

 

Sharangovich, Kadri, Dube

Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman 

Greer, Ruzicka, Pospisil/Duehr

[redfire11]

28 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Huberdeau, Zary, Lindholm 

(play Lindholm and Zary at C)

 

If we were to try Zary at center with Huberdeau I would try Pospisil or Sharangovich on the right.

Huberdeau thrived with the young fast players in FLA 

I would be happy to try either one of these lines

Huberdeau, Zary, Pospisil/Sharangovich

Huberdeau,  Sharangovich Zary/Pospisil

 

 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I think the Zary situation shows that when you play guys with similar talent he can succeed. Would he have the same success on the 4th line and making him work his way up the lineup like we've done in the past? 
 

Put young players who can play with guys who can play. I think it's a difference I see this year but our team can do it more often! But we see things like this with other teams. Insulate the guys coming in and play them with guys where you want them. 
 

Tkachuk should have been up the lineup sooner. Some other guys like Bennett should have been up

for longer too.

Tkachuk was up pretty early, whether he should've been moved offwing with Johnny as a rookie is a different question but the 3M line which was the 2nd line was formed decently early.  Bennett I think was always kinda determined to be a lemon, can say he was mishandled early but I've heard lots of guys didn't like playing with him because he didn't know what he was doing.  There is at least one Sam Bennett in almost every top 5, sometimes more, we've only had 1 top 5 so when it goes down the tubes we need to point fingers everywhere because people couldn't handle that our top 5 wasn't a superstar.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I think the Zary situation shows that when you play guys with similar talent he can succeed. Would he have the same success on the 4th line and making him work his way up the lineup like we've done in the past? 
 

Put young players who can play with guys who can play. I think it's a difference I see this year but our team can do it more often! But we see things like this with other teams. Insulate the guys coming in and play them with guys where you want them. 
 

Tkachuk should have been up the lineup sooner. Some other guys like Bennett should have been up

for longer too.

 

Zary shows what young payers can do.

Ruzicka shows what happens when a proven player gets shunted down the lineup.

He has one of the better shots in the lineup, somewhere in the Sharky range of skills.

But he's being used to feed Greer and Dube.

 

Bennett suffered from having a top 6 better without him.

No room to play him there, so he got the 3rd line.

 

Pospisil is a player I would not be as concerned about as Ruzicka.

He can thrive in a gritty line or a skilled line.

Right now, we don't have a top 6 RW to replace him, so it makes sense to stay.

Ruzicka, on the other hand, really thrives with top 9 play but gets pushed down.

The reason is obvious, since we have 3 LW ahead and same for C.

He's playing better than Huberdeau and had shown better than Mangiapane.

 

But anyway, I think the only solution with Huberdeau healthy is to swap him with Mange.

Only Lindholm and Sharky play well as a duo.

Huberdeau is killing the 3rd line.

I think he couldn't be any worse for the top line.

 

This is not to say that Huberdeau or Mange sucks.

They just seemed mismatched where they are.

Mange is playing like Coleman does but it's not his strength.

Huberdeau does not thrive on transition.

He's slowing things down instead of the quick decisions.

[kehatch]

There are too many players underachieving in their current spots. 

 

Pospisil has 2 points in December despite being on the offensive line. Not his fault, he just isn't that type of player. Huberdeau is miscast on a defensive line. Mangiapane has 1 goal in December and has been borderline invisible. 

 

Try Huberdeau with Kadri and Zary. He has looked great with Zary in a limited sample. Move Mangiapane back with Backlund and Coleman. That's two simple and obvious solutions. 

 

The Lindholm line is a harder nut to crack. Keep Sharongovich there as he has looked decent. For the third either call up someone (Kerins, Coranato, Petersen) or try one of the depth guys. Greer or Pospisil gives you some grit. Ruzicka could surprise. 

 

The rest are on your fourth line. Except for Dube. Scratch him. Waive him. Something. He has no points in December, is a minus three, and he has been generally terrible. 

 

The coaches have to do something to manufacture some offense. Sometimes it's shuffling deck chairs on the titanic, but we have seen with Zary how finding a little chemistry can ignite a line. 

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, kehatch said:

There are too many players underachieving in their current spots. 

 

Pospisil has 2 points in December despite being on the offensive line. Not his fault, he just isn't that type of player. Huberdeau is miscast on a defensive line. Mangiapane has 1 goal in December and has been borderline invisible. 

 

Try Huberdeau with Kadri and Zary. He has looked great with Zary in a limited sample. Move Mangiapane back with Backlund and Coleman. That's two simple and obvious solutions. 

 

The Lindholm line is a harder nut to crack. Keep Sharongovich there as he has looked decent. For the third either call up someone (Kerins, Coranato, Petersen) or try one of the depth guys. Greer or Pospisil gives you some grit. Ruzicka could surprise. 

 

The rest are on your fourth line. Except for Dube. Scratch him. Waive him. Something. He has no points in December, is a minus three, and he has been generally terrible. 

 

The coaches have to do something to manufacture some offense. Sometimes it's shuffling deck chairs on the titanic, but we have seen with Zary how finding a little chemistry can ignite a line. 

 

Huberdeau looks good at times, but his passes go to places the players vacate.

There are only a few players that anticipate the play.

Zary had good instincts but doesn't take the shot enough.

Great chemistry with Kadri.

 

Since only one or two lines ever seem to be going at once, there is no line exempt from changes.

You could leave Kadri's alone, because they score.  Doesn't matter if Pospisil isn't 100% right.

You want that line to generate chances.  They do.  

Agreed Mangiapane only has looked good with Backlund and Coleman.

Sharky plays well with Lindholm but both are shooters.

Huberdeau up there isn't a bad option, since those two are shooters.

 

The simplest change is to swap Mange and Huberdeau.

No other changes to those lines.

Your top 9 remains intact.  

If Ruzicka could play RW, then he would be a swap with Pospisil.

Otherwise, just swap out Dube with Duehr.

I can't remember the last game where Dube did anything positive.

Ruzicka may make mistakes, but he is a threat everytime he shoot.

He should be top 6 LW, but we can't swap out Huberdeau.

 

This probably goes to team construction, but Dube and Mangiapane are too similar.

They both underperform.  They both try to play big and get owned.

$7M+ on two players that barely match a $5M player elsewhere.

Trade one or both and we are a better constructed team.

Dube is likely the first vicitim (and Mange with Backlund might solve a lot of problems).

[cross16]

I think you have to switch Huberdeau and Mang. Both aren't given you what you need so you got to try something. That would also allow Huska to burry the Backlund line more and give more favorable matchups to Huberdeau.  Don't really understand why they are not trying that honestly. Think Huberdeau had a good game last night and crated several really nice pass plays only to have them go nowhere. I know he and Lindholm were not great but I think you've got to see what Sharangovich can do there. Huberdeau needs more pace on his line. 

 

I'd leave it at that for not because the Kadri line was excellent last night and the 4th line was pretty decent to I thought. Keep Ruzicka scratched and start shopping him towards the deadline if you can find a taker. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I'd leave it at that for not because the Kadri line was excellent last night and the 4th line was pretty decent to I thought. Keep Ruzicka scratched and start shopping him towards the deadline if you can find a taker. 

 

Scratching him is fine if you feel he has little value to the team.  It showcases nothing though.

Dube seems like they are showcasing him, even though he does nothing that well.

Show that he can play any position other than the top line?

 

I know the coach trusts him, but I'm not sure what he offers.

Is the former WJC  roster players on the do not trade list for now?

 

Between Dube and Ruzicka, I don't see enough of an upgrade.

Both play C and LW.  Dube can play RW.

One is effective on the PP, the other on the PK.

Growth wise, I have seen little from Dube.

He's played most of every season since he came to the NHL.

 

[cross16]

pretty logical change at practice today

 

 

[redfire11]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

I think you have to switch Huberdeau and Mang

 

51 minutes ago, cross16 said:

pretty logical change at practice today

 

 

Good call cross glad they are keeping a tab on your posts.

[Otown72]

I know he has zero points in his last twelve😓, but Huberdeau has been making better plays and shooting more. Guys not finishing so a little snakebit. He is struggling.

 

I always thought that you had to keep him on the first P.P. unit. 

 

Find players to get him going a little.

Get some confidence. Some options haven't been explored. Zary for one

 

[cross16]

38 minutes ago, Otown72 said:

I know he has zere points in his last twelve😓, but Huberdeau has been making better plays and shooting more. Guys not finishing so a little snakebit. He is struggling.

 

I always thought that you have to keep him on the first P.P. unit. 

 

Find players to get him going a little.

Get some confidence. There are options that haven't really been explored. Zary for one

 

 

If i were Huska my number 1 priority would be doing anything I could to get Huberdeau going. I get the counter point of "well he's only 1 player and you have a team to worry about" but we've seen over the last 2 years this team is going to get into the playoffs without an effective Huberdeau.  By no means his fault but i've been surprised at the lack of creativity when it comes to Huberdeau. 

 

I agree Huberdeau playing better. was actually surprised to see that over the last 12 games he is the Flames number 1 (or 2) player at 5 on 5 in most chance based categories. He's also one of the worst when it comes to on ice shooting % so there is definitely a element of bad luck here too. 

[Sarasti]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

If i were Huska my number 1 priority would be doing anything I could to get Huberdeau going. I get the counter point of "well he's only 1 player and you have a team to worry about" but we've seen over the last 2 years this team is going to get into the playoffs without an effective Huberdeau.  By no means his fault but i've been surprised at the lack of creativity when it comes to Huberdeau. 

 

I agree Huberdeau playing better. was actually surprised to see that over the last 12 games he is the Flames number 1 (or 2) player at 5 on 5 in most chance based categories. He's also one of the worst when it comes to on ice shooting % so there is definitely a element of bad luck here too. 

 

He's still an elite passer. I think a lot of his struggles are a combination of bad luck and his linemates not anticipating his passes.

 

That chips away at his confidence and it kinda snowballs from there. 

[conundrumed]

Just me, but I can see a lot more shaking up will be needed. He just keeps moving 2 LWers around isn't going to solve it. I can see eventually there is going to be a need to break up Kadri's line. It's the best line by a lot, but we're dangerously close to try everything. The cause is Huberdeau and Mangiapane, but I think you have to try to move things around more than just them. Zary and Pospisil with Kadri works, we created a good line. It doesn't necessarily mean, "that's it, that's all, don't touch it". That was a successful 1st attempt. Coleman and Sharky seem very effective together, for example. Zary is exceptional at puck possession, Pops should be turned into the stalwart net-front guy.

But I guess we'll see if this change does anything...colour me skeptical.

[kehatch]

I am okay with swapping Mangiapane and Huberdeau. I would have preferred they try Huberdeau with Kadri / Zary as it just hasn't worked with Lindholm and I think Zary is the right kind of player for Huberdeau. But maybe the emergence of Sharangovich makes it work with Lindholm.

[Otown72]

14 hours ago, Sarasti said:

 

He's still an elite passer. I think a lot of his struggles are a combination of bad luck and his linemates not anticipating his passes.

 

That chips away at his confidence and it kinda snowballs from there. 

Exactly!  He is the only one on the roster who has demonstrated in multiple seasons that he is a capable: plus point a game player. 

 

Coaching Staff should have been trying to explore this a little better.

 

It also shows that the Flames lack highly skilled players. Zary is showing much promise as is Sherangovich.  Lindy isn't high-skilled necessarily but can work with the right skilled linemates.

 

Also has to look at the coaching last year as well as the part of the problem.

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Just me, but I can see a lot more shaking up will be needed. He just keeps moving 2 LWers around isn't going to solve it. I can see eventually there is going to be a need to break up Kadri's line. It's the best line by a lot, but we're dangerously close to try everything. The cause is Huberdeau and Mangiapane, but I think you have to try to move things around more than just them. Zary and Pospisil with Kadri works, we created a good line. It doesn't necessarily mean, "that's it, that's all, don't touch it". That was a successful 1st attempt. Coleman and Sharky seem very effective together, for example. Zary is exceptional at puck possession, Pops should be turned into the stalwart net-front guy.

But I guess we'll see if this change does anything...colour me skeptical.

 

Even though Huberdeau is pointless in December, the two most concerning players to me are Mangiapane and Dube.  Their strong points have always been finishing.  Both have okay defensive games, but neither is close to 100% on the PK.  Mangiapane is doing Richard all on the PP.  The 4th line looks good at times but gets owned in our zone.  Or they get a decent chance and it comes back the other way in a big hurry.

 

Mange is playing poorly enough to get 4th line treatment, but he at least can play on the 3rd line.  Ruzicka has good shifts and meh ones.  But he always has Dube with him, so it's hard to tell.  He has played quite well in the top 9.  Greer is a 4th line fixture and we need players like him.  Duehr has speed.  

 

Figure it out.  There hasn't been many games where I would say we have an optimal lineup.  We have maybe had close to it, but it lasts just one game.  Whatever they do when the practice starts changes it.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Even though Huberdeau is pointless in December, the two most concerning players to me are Mangiapane and Dube.  Their strong points have always been finishing.  Both have okay defensive games, but neither is close to 100% on the PK.  Mangiapane is doing Richard all on the PP.  The 4th line looks good at times but gets owned in our zone.  Or they get a decent chance and it comes back the other way in a big hurry.

 

Mange is playing poorly enough to get 4th line treatment, but he at least can play on the 3rd line.  Ruzicka has good shifts and meh ones.  But he always has Dube with him, so it's hard to tell.  He has played quite well in the top 9.  Greer is a 4th line fixture and we need players like him.  Duehr has speed.  

 

Figure it out.  There hasn't been many games where I would say we have an optimal lineup.  We have maybe had close to it, but it lasts just one game.  Whatever they do when the practice starts changes it.

Id go after a true 4th line C, not Rooney. But go with Duehr and Greer with the bigger Center. 
 

I wanted to trade both Dube and Mangiapane for a few years. Maybe no one wanted Mangiapane when I would have suggested it, but when many teams were discussing Debincrat, I thought Mangiapane could have been a backup option.
 

They're not the same player, I get that, but Mangiapane was scoring at 20+ goal pace for years it seems. so i thought he could be Debbie light.

 

Dube has probably lost a lot of value too. Be lucky to get a 3rd or 4th rounder for either, and with Mangiapane's contract, we are hooped. 
 

conundrum talked about how Mang's contract is another anchor. It's a tough pill when we always seem to be up against the cap and continually a mediocre team. I think teams up against the cap should be vying for champs, not chumps.

[cross16]

15 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Just me, but I can see a lot more shaking up will be needed. He just keeps moving 2 LWers around isn't going to solve it. I can see eventually there is going to be a need to break up Kadri's line. It's the best line by a lot, but we're dangerously close to try everything. The cause is Huberdeau and Mangiapane, but I think you have to try to move things around more than just them. Zary and Pospisil with Kadri works, we created a good line. It doesn't necessarily mean, "that's it, that's all, don't touch it". That was a successful 1st attempt. Coleman and Sharky seem very effective together, for example. Zary is exceptional at puck possession, Pops should be turned into the stalwart net-front guy.

But I guess we'll see if this change does anything...colour me skeptical.

 

 

I don't disagree. I agree with Kehatch earlier that Poposil isn't a good fit for a top 6 role but right now that line is doing some great work so I woudln't be in a rush to change it. 

 

I mean with the direction this team is going it's unlikely your going to get to a point where you should say "ok were good". Roster will likely be unsettled all year IMO. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Id go after a true 4th line C, not Rooney. But go with Duehr and Greer with the bigger Center. 
 

I wanted to trade both Dube and Mangiapane for a few years. Maybe no one wanted Mangiapane when I would have suggested it, but when many teams were discussing Debincrat, I thought Mangiapane could have been a backup option.
 

They're not the same player, I get that, but Mangiapane was scoring at 20+ goal pace for years it seems. so i thought he could be Debbie light.

 

Dube has probably lost a lot of value too. Be lucky to get a 3rd or 4th rounder for either, and with Mangiapane's contract, we are hooped. 
 

conundrum talked about how Mang's contract is another anchor. It's a tough pill when we always seem to be up against the cap and continually a mediocre team. I think teams up against the cap should be vying for champs, not chumps.

 

I think the problem is that Mange signed after a killer season.

No real way to argue it, but we kept the term down at least.

Besides, he was the stats darling, putting up great numbers with limited minutes.

I don't think he fits with Lindholm and Kadri's line is better without him.

That leaves 3rd and 4th line.

Maybe he would work with Ruzicka, but that's a big drop to the 4th line and we don't have a top 6 replacement.  This could have been the year for Coroanto, but he's not ready defensively.

 

I think you have to trade Dube for a more expensive struggling player.

You get the better upside for the bigger salary coming back.