Flames 2023 Development Camp

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I was hoping youtube would have greater coverage. I was also hoping to go to Detroit's but sked said no.

I'm most interested in Ronni and Stromgren because I've watched them in league play and both look solid to me. Ronni in particular but I've seen more of him. I'm hoping that he can develop into a solid 2C. If anyone went, is he as fast as I think he is? He looks like a fantastic skater to me in most elements. I caught a fair bit of the U20 sarja semi's and finals.

I have no concerns with Coronato and Honzek. Coronato will make the team and I believe Honzek can earn a 9 game look. With both, there is a ton of talent to unload, so I'll just say that I have zero concern.

The 3rd that I wonder about is Rory Kerins. I saw him enough in jr to know that he is very highly skilled. The ECHL was playing time, I get it, but this is a huge year for him imho. I'm 90% sure that he'll do really well, but the 10% terrifies me.lol

I looked at OHL players in camps. No Jack Beck anywhere.

 

The Beck thing is odd.  

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I was hoping youtube would have greater coverage. I was also hoping to go to Detroit's but sked said no.

I'm most interested in Ronni and Stromgren because I've watched them in league play and both look solid to me. Ronni in particular but I've seen more of him. I'm hoping that he can develop into a solid 2C. If anyone went, is he as fast as I think he is? He looks like a fantastic skater to me in most elements. I caught a fair bit of the U20 sarja semi's and finals.

I have no concerns with Coronato and Honzek. Coronato will make the team and I believe Honzek can earn a 9 game look. With both, there is a ton of talent to unload, so I'll just say that I have zero concern.

The 3rd that I wonder about is Rory Kerins. I saw him enough in jr to know that he is very highly skilled. The ECHL was playing time, I get it, but this is a huge year for him imho. I'm 90% sure that he'll do really well, but the 10% terrifies me.lol

I looked at OHL players in camps. No Jack Beck anywhere.

 

Its super annoying that there's no coverage but it probably means they're doing something right.   Media presence at such an even is a net negative.

 

https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/07/09/the-most-impressive-calgary-flames-prospect-performances-from-development-camp/

 

No shocker there, Coronato building off his WC performance, Honzek looking strong.  How strong, I wish I knew.

 

Stromgren nice to see.

 

I'm thinking your're right, again as @cross16 mentioned, Coronato looking so strong at the WC, continuing from there...

 

Honzek has me nervous.   As I expected, he's looking strong.    As you're expecting, he's getting a 9 game look, and I agree.

 

IMHO there is a real chance that Honzek creates a Tkachuk/Monahan type situation for us in those 9 games.    The good part about that is it'll mean Conroy won the draft big-time, which gives me a lot of needed faith/hope for the organization.

 

The bad part is it's high risk.   IMHO it was a neutral experience for Tkachuk, not really hurting or helping him more than Junior, but it had a very negative impact on Monahan.

 

I'm getting way ahead of myself but my gut says this could be a real thing.    If Honzek sticks with the club, he's going to be phsyically tested and targeted much like Monahan was and imho, too early.   

 

In any case, glad to see those two standing out like we need them to.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

Its super annoying that there's no coverage but it probably means they're doing something right.   Media presence at such an even is a net negative.

 

https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/07/09/the-most-impressive-calgary-flames-prospect-performances-from-development-camp/

 

No shocker there, Coronato building off his WC performance, Honzek looking strong.  How strong, I wish I knew.

 

Stromgren nice to see.

 

I'm thinking your're right, again as @cross16 mentioned, Coronato looking so strong at the WC, continuing from there...

 

Honzek has me nervous.   As I expected, he's looking strong.    As you're expecting, he's getting a 9 game look, and I agree.

 

IMHO there is a real chance that Honzek creates a Tkachuk/Monahan type situation for us in those 9 games.    The good part about that is it'll mean Conroy won the draft big-time, which gives me a lot of needed faith/hope for the organization.

 

The bad part is it's high risk.   IMHO it was a neutral experience for Tkachuk, not really hurting or helping him more than Junior, but it had a very negative impact on Monahan.

 

I'm getting way ahead of myself but my gut says this could be a real thing.    If Honzek sticks with the club, he's going to be phsyically tested and targeted much like Monahan was and imho, too early.   

 

In any case, glad to see those two standing out like we need them to.

I agree with you on Monahan. I think he didn't look like an NHL player when he started. Sure he could find ways and places to score. He skated to the right spots in all parts of his game, but he looked awkward doing everything. But he was so mature and a young leader and a bright hope. 
 

I hope the team doesn't do that with our young players. While interviewing Coranato, they already tried to compare him to Iginla, like how they crowned Baertschi the next one for Calgary. Happy he seems like a very humble kid. 

[conundrumed]

13 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Its super annoying that there's no coverage but it probably means they're doing something right.   Media presence at such an even is a net negative.

 

https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/07/09/the-most-impressive-calgary-flames-prospect-performances-from-development-camp/

 

No shocker there, Coronato building off his WC performance, Honzek looking strong.  How strong, I wish I knew.

 

Stromgren nice to see.

 

I'm thinking your're right, again as @cross16 mentioned, Coronato looking so strong at the WC, continuing from there...

 

Honzek has me nervous.   As I expected, he's looking strong.    As you're expecting, he's getting a 9 game look, and I agree.

 

IMHO there is a real chance that Honzek creates a Tkachuk/Monahan type situation for us in those 9 games.    The good part about that is it'll mean Conroy won the draft big-time, which gives me a lot of needed faith/hope for the organization.

 

The bad part is it's high risk.   IMHO it was a neutral experience for Tkachuk, not really hurting or helping him more than Junior, but it had a very negative impact on Monahan.

 

I'm getting way ahead of myself but my gut says this could be a real thing.    If Honzek sticks with the club, he's going to be phsyically tested and targeted much like Monahan was and imho, too early.   

 

In any case, glad to see those two standing out like we need them to.

By most accounts Detroit was taking Honzek next if the Flames didn't take him. Danielson was their target at 9, if he was gone, it would have been Honzek. I don't think it really mattered who else was on the board.

If Honzek were to earn a spot you have to give it to him. I don't think there are laurels at play. You can't really deny an 18yo that gives you no choice simply because of invented optics that generalize development. He looks like he needs to fill out his frame so I'm doubting his season will play out here.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

By most accounts Detroit was taking Honzek next if the Flames didn't take him. Danielson was their target at 9, if he was gone, it would have been Honzek. I don't think it really mattered who else was on the board.

If Honzek were to earn a spot you have to give it to him. I don't think there are laurels at play. You can't really deny an 18yo that gives you no choice simply because of invented optics that generalize development. He looks like he needs to fill out his frame so I'm doubting his season will play out here.

 

So, if the Flames didn't pick Honzek, they'd have drafted Danielson and Honzek?

 

I think the only reason to be upset with him playing in Calgary is only for optics. Many do think Monahan deserved to play. I think on a full roster of NHLers, does he stay or go back? That is the biggest question. Some will think he would have stayed. I think a year might have helped, mostly due to mobility. 

Why I say this is, I think, and it's just my line of thought here, that Monahan was kept up because he was a beacon of hope. Something to sell the fans. He did great considering. I just don't want Honzek to play if he's here for those reasons. Play him because he deserves it. Give him his 9 games if he earns 9, and that can be a beacon. 

[conundrumed]

Just now, robrob74 said:

 

So, if the Flames didn't pick Honzek, they'd have drafted Danielson and Honzek?

 

I think the only reason to be upset with him playing in Calgary is only for optics. Many do think Monahan deserved to play. I think on a full roster of NHLers, does he stay or go back? That is the biggest question. Some will think he would have stayed. I think a year might have helped, mostly due to mobility. 

Why I say this is, I think, and it's just my line of thought here, that Monahan was kept up because he was a beacon of hope. Something to sell the fans. He did great considering. I just don't want Honzek to play if he's here for those reasons. Play him because he deserves it. Give him his 9 games if he earns 9, and that can be a beacon. 

That is correct from what I've read out of Detroit. They value size with skill, skating and 2-way play.

That is Monahan's instance though, so it doesn't apply to a different player/person. Each are their own separate entities is what I'm getting at.

[robrob74]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

That is correct from what I've read out of Detroit. They value size with skill, skating and 2-way play.

That is Monahan's instance though, so it doesn't apply to a different player/person. Each are their own separate entities is what I'm getting at.

 

I can agree with that second point. But at the same time, I don't think the Flames will do it for optics, but at the same time, I can see them doing it for optics. I am conflicted. If it were up to me, I'd have sent Monahan back to Junior that year. I am just saying that while it's different and agree that it is, that the only way I don't want it to happen is if it's due to optics. I also wanted Bennett to go back, or be sent to the AHL after it was clear he didn't have options to play C in Calgary. That's different as well, just that, I'd have played the long game with him too.

 

I hope that they do what's right with Honzek and Coronato. Coronato is different as he's a bit mature compared to Honzek, but want to put him in a good development path.

[conundrumed]

29 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I can agree with that second point. But at the same time, I don't think the Flames will do it for optics, but at the same time, I can see them doing it for optics. I am conflicted. If it were up to me, I'd have sent Monahan back to Junior that year. I am just saying that while it's different and agree that it is, that the only way I don't want it to happen is if it's due to optics. I also wanted Bennett to go back, or be sent to the AHL after it was clear he didn't have options to play C in Calgary. That's different as well, just that, I'd have played the long game with him too.

 

I hope that they do what's right with Honzek and Coronato. Coronato is different as he's a bit mature compared to Honzek, but want to put him in a good development path.

Coronato is a different category for sure. He's in the Knies, McGroarty, Cooley(if not for ARI), Mazur category of prospects that developed in University and excelled. Their chances are much higher of securing spots. Maybe Samoskevich, Buium, Levi, I'm prolly missing some. Their bodies have developed.

[cross16]

I think you should go back and look at that team that Monahan made out of camp. 

 

I don't think it was optics at all. He was ready, as he showed that season, and it wasn't a difficult team to crack. 

[The_People1]

Meanwhile at Leafs development camp,

 

 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I think you should go back and look at that team that Monahan made out of camp. 

 

I don't think it was optics at all. He was ready, as he showed that season, and it wasn't a difficult team to crack. 

 

I do believe we may have had a big fight about this 10 years ago, which of course is quite shocking in itself.  Could have been someone else though, I can't remember and I've bumped enough threads already today.  The same arguement was also had in regards to Baertschi.

 

My concern when they were deciding to keep him was that he was too young and would be physically targeted, likely shortening his career.   About a half dozen users on here strongly disagreed with that.  The biggest arguement was that he was "strong".   So I pointed out research to show that this had very little to do with it, that the issue is more about neurological devlepment, which in professional sports obviously needs to be optimal.  If anything, the phyisical players are at higher risk.  Used Lindros and countless others as examples.  

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0273229707000494?via%3Dihub

 

Everyone hated it.  People were like "coincidence", "hindsight",  "that was the old nhl, things different now".  all the usuals.

 

Things started breaking early, and likely earlier than this:   https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/calgary-flames-rookie-sensation-sean-monahan-out-with-fractured-foot/article15652137/

 

No scans, no nothing.  They would just play the guy on a broken foot for weeks,and weeks until it got so bad he had to miss games.
       https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/311797

 

 

Naturally, Monahan played through most of his injuries and its pretty clear the organization supported that as they were relying on him HEAVILY  (as per your mention of the state of the team at that time).   He was our anchor.   He was needed so badly we wouldn't even let him go to the world juniors.  So yes, it was easier for him to make the team.  But harder for us not to rely on him and think short-term.

 

Anyway when you look at the injury rate and career lengths of the players we promoted early, I mean, it's beyond aweful.  Can argue it's coincidence but when you lose 2/3 of your top prospects to injury before they turn 20, you know..maybe something to consider.

 

 

[jjgallow]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Meanwhile at Leafs development camp,

 

every year.

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

Meanwhile at Leafs development camp,

 

 

Clean hit keep your head up when you cut through the middle of the ice

[The_People1]

10 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

every year.

 

9 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Clean hit keep your head up when you cut through the middle of the ice

 

Hate to beat a dead horse but...

 

 

 

...LHS coming down the right wing.  It's not for everyone.

[conundrumed]

16 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Meanwhile at Leafs development camp,

 

 

Former Sting captain Nolan Dillingham doing exactly what former Sting captain Nolan Dillingham does best. We called him Dillinger.

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Hate to beat a dead horse but...

 

 

 

...LHS coming down the right wing.  It's not for everyone.

 

Maybe he's a Rhs now ...

[jjgallow]

bump

[conundrumed]

I noticed Dillingham signed an AHL deal with the Marlies. Both him and Ethan Ritchie(Bruins invite) would have been fun D invites for us. Could see both making the A.

Including Mast(Bos), Del Mastro(CHI) and Kyrou(Dal), the Sting no longer have a defence.lol

[jjgallow]

17 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I noticed Dillingham signed an AHL deal with the Marlies. Both him and Ethan Ritchie(Bruins invite) would have been fun D invites for us. Could see both making the A.

Including Mast(Bos), Del Mastro(CHI) and Kyrou(Dal), the Sting no longer have a defence.lol

 

agreed in theory, although part of me is like...let them have em, as they're eastern kids and will be closer to home.  

 

Also, the OHL tends to get pretty picked clean in terms of undrafted players, but the WHL not so much.  A few Western kids available me thinks that would have been interesting.

 

But yeah.  More PTOs!