Matthew Phillip

[zima]

Can some one please explain why Sutter didn't give this kid a chance to show his stuff? He was the highest scorer on the team he has the most goals and Assists does his size really hold him back that much? He could play on our third line and do more than Pelts in MHO. Any way looking to read some opinions very curios what others fell about his future with the Franchise is he gone or do we resign him ? Also can some one explain what UFA G6 means and how does it affect his new contract if he gets an offer ? 

[travel_dude]

54 minutes ago, zima said:

Can some one please explain why Sutter didn't give this kid a chance to show his stuff? He was the highest scorer on the team he has the most goals and Assists does his size really hold him back that much? He could play on our third line and do more than Pelts in MHO. Any way looking to read some opinions very curios what others fell about his future with the Franchise is he gone or do we resign him ? Also can some one explain what UFA G6 means and how does it affect his new contract if he gets an offer ? 

 

Simply put, he's a UFA.  The category just is due to not playing NHL games but still being a pro.

 

What do I think about him?  I think me and a few others said we reaaly had no idea of what he could become in the NHL because he wasn't given a shot.  IN fact the coach spoke down about him as a AHL player that has proven nothing.  Not exactly what he said, but he thought you needed to be big to succeed in the NHL.  I think he would take some time to adjust to the size of the players he faces.  He plays more in your face than Gaudreau, so he would pay the price.  Yamamoto from EDM is the same type of player, but gets injured every year as a result.  That type of player needs to work harder and dig out the puck for a guy that can score.  Has a good shot, so I think he could also score if he got free.

 

He may decide to re-sign because Sutter is gone and the new coach may give him a shot.  I think it would be a waste to let him walk without offering him a deal.

[zima]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Simply put, he's a UFA.  The category just is due to not playing NHL games but still being a pro.

 

What do I think about him?  I think me and a few others said we reaaly had no idea of what he could become in the NHL because he wasn't given a shot.  IN fact the coach spoke down about him as a AHL player that has proven nothing.  Not exactly what he said, but he thought you needed to be big to succeed in the NHL.  I think he would take some time to adjust to the size of the players he faces.  He plays more in your face than Gaudreau, so he would pay the price.  Yamamoto from EDM is the same type of player, but gets injured every year as a result.  That type of player needs to work harder and dig out the puck for a guy that can score.  Has a good shot, so I think he could also score if he got free.

 

He may decide to re-sign because Sutter is gone and the new coach may give him a shot.  I think it would be a waste to let him walk without offering him a deal.

I totally agree I know fleury might be a little bigger and nastier but I think he would succeed in the bigs perhaps not put up 72 points but I think he would do 50 or better. Fleury was a tuff kid and I love his tenacity and loved how he would take on Mcsorley  that man had no fear I know thats not Phillips but I do believe he could put up the points I hope he doesn't walk.

[Heartbreaker]

35 minutes ago, zima said:

I totally agree I know fleury might be a little bigger and nastier but I think he would succeed in the bigs perhaps not put up 72 points but I think he would do 50 or better. Fleury was a tuff kid and I love his tenacity and loved how he would take on Mcsorley  that man had no fear I know thats not Phillips but I do believe he could put up the points I hope he doesn't walk.

 

Yeah, there's a lot of people around here that were advocating for him all year. It's possible that he'll never be an NHL player, but it really would have been worthwhile to try him out this past season. He did really well in the A, and it's not unheard of for a guy to come up and score 10-15 goals. 10-15 goals could easily have been the difference between picking 16th, and being in the playoffs. It's not clear whether or not Matthew Phillips could have done that, but given that there were a lot of games where the Flames couldn't score if their season depended on it, it really might have been worth a shot.

 

I am hopeful that he signs, but would understand if he doesn't. There are a few reasons to think that he might:

• Darryl Sutter is no longer the coach, and he was, without a doubt, the reason that Phillips didn't get a good opportunity
• Matthew Phillips is from Calgary, and grew up a Flames fan

There are also a few undetermined variables:

• Will the new GM see him as a part of the picture in Calgary?
• Who will be the new coach? If it's Mitch Love, the chances might get a lot better.
• How many of the other 31 teams will be willing to take a shot on him? I'd bet at least one of them will offer a one-way contract.

Personally, I'd really like to see him sign here again. I'd give him a one-way contract, too. That way, whether he's up or down, he'll get paid NHL money. A guy who has been one of the best players in the AHL should get paid one way or the other.

 

Love.

[cross16]

I've been pretty adamant all year i didn't see Phillips coming back but as Heartbreaker notes that may not be the case. The one thing I will add to his excellent post is I believe Craig Conroy is someone who has pushed for Phillips even back to his draft year. if this winds up as Conroy as the GM and Love as the coach I actually think it would be likely he would return. 

[jjgallow]

25 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Yeah, there's a lot of people around here that were advocating for him all year. It's possible that he'll never be an NHL player, but it really would have been worthwhile to try him out this past season. He did really well in the A, and it's not unheard of for a guy to come up and score 10-15 goals. 10-15 goals could easily have been the difference between picking 16th, and being in the playoffs. It's not clear whether or not Matthew Phillips could have done that, but given that there were a lot of games where the Flames couldn't score if their season depended on it, it really might have been worth a shot.

 

I am hopeful that he signs, but would understand if he doesn't. There are a few reasons to think that he might:

• Darryl Sutter is no longer the coach, and he was, without a doubt, the reason that Phillips didn't get a good opportunity
• Matthew Phillips is from Calgary, and grew up a Flames fan

There are also a few undetermined variables:

• Will the new GM see him as a part of the picture in Calgary?
• Who will be the new coach? If it's Mitch Love, the chances might get a lot better.
• How many of the other 31 teams will be willing to take a shot on him? I'd bet at least one of them will offer a one-way contract.

Personally, I'd really like to see him sign here again. I'd give him a one-way contract, too. That way, whether he's up or down, he'll get paid NHL money. A guy who has been one of the best players in the AHL should get paid one way or the other.

 

Love.

 

I have defended Sutter at times on here but I can't defend him with Phillips.

 

Phillips was clearly ready to at least be given a real chance in the NHL.  He didn't get that.   Next year I think/hope he will.

I never saw a an NHL star in Phillips, but concede that there is that 5% chance.   NHL teams need to take every single of one those 5% chances that they get.

 

As a RHS I believe he could have found a role.   And very likely still will.   

 

Fingers crossed.

[zima]

I hope he doesn't get discouraged and signs else where but if he does I can't blame him he deserved better than 1 game while pelts played most of his yr in the bigs not fair at all.

[conundrumed]

We seriously have enough smallish forwards. I'm fine with him going elsewhere.

The Pelletier comparison makes zero sense. The team practices, so it's not just in-game looks.

The fact remains, Pelletier made an immediate effective impact on the 4th line, as did Duehr.

Phillips didn't.

The "real chance" thing is meh. He's your classic "boom or bust" 6th rder that was worth the risk. So he is in no way, shape or form a bottom 6 player.

So now you're trading Dube/Mangiapane to create a spot for him. 2 clearly better players so they better fetch you a great upgrade on D.

There. I said it. Somebody had to. Enough of the pissing and moaning over a guy lighting up a glorified men's league.

Sign him for a year and loan him to the SHL. There. There's your real chance. Watch what happens.

It's his skating and center of gravity holding him back, not us. We have enough diminutive falldown forwards. Enough of that already.

Petterson deserves the next shot if I'm reading @tmac70 correctly. He's follows the Wranglers way heavier than myself, so I'm more than happy to hear what he thinks.

But dragging Pelts into this, who clearly grabbed his chance and showed how he can enhance the team, is unfair. I think it's clear Sutter sets young guys up to fail so they really have to grab it. Then he kicked Pelts straight up the roster, really, to find some failures so he could staple him to the pressbox. But that's mho and another matter.

But if the hordes of fans want Phillips that badly, you're going to have to decide who you'll trade in the top 6. Not a chance in hell he can be a season-long bottom 6.

Size is still a thing in the NHL, whether or not you want it to be.

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

We seriously have enough smallish forwards. I'm fine with him going elsewhere.

The Pelletier comparison makes zero sense. The team practices, so it's not just in-game looks.

The fact remains, Pelletier made an immediate effective impact on the 4th line, as did Duehr.

Phillips didn't.

The "real chance" thing is meh. He's your classic "boom or bust" 6th rder that was worth the risk. So he is in no way, shape or form a bottom 6 player.

So now you're trading Dube/Mangiapane to create a spot for him. 2 clearly better players so they better fetch you a great upgrade on D.

There. I said it. Somebody had to. Enough of the pissing and moaning over a guy lighting up a glorified men's league.

Sign him for a year and loan him to the SHL. There. There's your real chance. Watch what happens.

It's his skating and center of gravity holding him back, not us. We have enough diminutive falldown forwards. Enough of that already.

Petterson deserves the next shot if I'm reading @tmac70 correctly. He's follows the Wranglers way heavier than myself, so I'm more than happy to hear what he thinks.

But dragging Pelts into this, who clearly grabbed his chance and showed how he can enhance the team, is unfair. I think it's clear Sutter sets young guys up to fail so they really have to grab it. Then he kicked Pelts straight up the roster, really, to find some failures so he could staple him to the pressbox. But that's mho and another matter.

But if the hordes of fans want Phillips that badly, you're going to have to decide who you'll trade in the top 6. Not a chance in hell he can be a season-long bottom 6.

Size is still a thing in the NHL, whether or not you want it to be.

 

Yup.   Now Huberdeau's fired the coach and we've crossed that off the checklist, still comes down to Phillip kinda sucked in the NHL.

 

lol

 

I know those weren't your words.    

 

Flames mishandled this, yes Sutter takes some of the blame but again I see it more as a BT and up problem.  He was an asset with value that we may lose for nothing.

   Coulda traded him at various points, didn't, he's borderline too old to be a prospect now.   

     If he stays, Flames would do well to find him an NHL home.   Just bring him up and play him for 20 games.

                  I think he would succeed on Powerplay.    Or at least it's worth giving him a chance.

                    I think he could adapt to a role player role, but this should be a last resort.  Not his thing.   The Flames aren't going to be brimming with offense next season and room could be made for him to see what he can do with some minutes and time to adjust.   Give him some time on that 2nd line, it's not like we're too talented for it or that it will affect our cup run.

 

then assess from there.   But yeah, we do have a lotta small, and even if he succeeds I think that doesn't make him untradeable.

 

on a "win now" team, he's a tough fit.   but let's not kid ourselves.  he could be a better fit this upcoming season for a team willing to experiment a little.

[travel_dude]

40 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 Coulda traded him at various points, didn't, he's borderline too old to be a prospect now.   

 

 

I doubt there was any trade value for a pending UFA smallish AHL player with 2 games of NHL experience.  

 

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

But dragging Pelts into this, who clearly grabbed his chance and showed how he can enhance the team, is unfair. I think it's clear Sutter sets young guys up to fail so they really have to grab it. Then he kicked Pelts straight up the roster, really, to find some failures so he could staple him to the pressbox. But that's mho and another matter.

But if the hordes of fans want Phillips that badly, you're going to have to decide who you'll trade in the top 6. Not a chance in hell he can be a season-long bottom 6.

Size is still a thing in the NHL, whether or not you want it to be.

 

I think the real problem is that you had a coach that prefers to play the boss card when given assets to use.  Player X comes up from the farm on a tear.  Player X sits in the press box because the existing goons are trusted, even though scoring had dried up and the goons were responsible for more scoring against than for.  Both Pelts and Phillips were sat until the excitement of bringing them up had worn off.  Hey look, I played Phillips 9 minutes in two games and all he did was hit the post and take a penalty.  I was right, gosh darn it.  The hype was wrong.  Pelts played two games at 7 minutes and looked better on the 4th line.  Think he played with Zohorna but frnakly I can't remember.  He got bumped to 14+ minues until he got a point in game 7.  Puting him on LW with Hubey on RW was a big mistake, but at least he was able to produce.

 

Honestly, I have no idea if Phillips would ever succeed in the NHL, but there is no way to tell given his usage here.  Playing him was a big middle finger to the fans and media suggesting he should get a look.  Same way Pelletier's bump to the top line was.  Not ready for that.  Was Huberdeau somehow incapable of playing LW on a top line?  

 

I tend to agree that too many smaller players is not a good thing.  Using Phillips to replace a small player is reasonable, but not to replace Lucic or Zohorna.  You have to have the spot that allows them to be used effectively, if at all.

[conundrumed]

Phillips was also waived with no takers, so it's hard to define him as an asset.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Phillips was also waived with no takers, so it's hard to define him as an asset.

 

Start of the season so many are waived and not taken, but I agree there was not much value then.

Late in the season, you might have seen a tanker take him if waived, but not worth much in a trade.

[robrob74]

12 hours ago, conundrumed said:

We seriously have enough smallish forwards. I'm fine with him going elsewhere.

The Pelletier comparison makes zero sense. The team practices, so it's not just in-game looks.

The fact remains, Pelletier made an immediate effective impact on the 4th line, as did Duehr.

Phillips didn't.

The "real chance" thing is meh. He's your classic "boom or bust" 6th rder that was worth the risk. So he is in no way, shape or form a bottom 6 player.

So now you're trading Dube/Mangiapane to create a spot for him. 2 clearly better players so they better fetch you a great upgrade on D.

There. I said it. Somebody had to. Enough of the pissing and moaning over a guy lighting up a glorified men's league.

Sign him for a year and loan him to the SHL. There. There's your real chance. Watch what happens.

It's his skating and center of gravity holding him back, not us. We have enough diminutive falldown forwards. Enough of that already.

Petterson deserves the next shot if I'm reading @tmac70 correctly. He's follows the Wranglers way heavier than myself, so I'm more than happy to hear what he thinks.

But dragging Pelts into this, who clearly grabbed his chance and showed how he can enhance the team, is unfair. I think it's clear Sutter sets young guys up to fail so they really have to grab it. Then he kicked Pelts straight up the roster, really, to find some failures so he could staple him to the pressbox. But that's mho and another matter.

But if the hordes of fans want Phillips that badly, you're going to have to decide who you'll trade in the top 6. Not a chance in hell he can be a season-long bottom 6.

Size is still a thing in the NHL, whether or not you want it to be.

I don't even know if it was really him not playing out the way Sutter handled the situation. Probably more the latter as it's a bad look on the team, why BT started to address it. 
 

Sutter sounded better about the situations after that. I think just give constructive assessment of players is what I wanted. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I don't even know if it was really him not playing out the way Sutter handled the situation. Probably more the latter as it's a bad look on the team, why BT started to address it. 
 

Sutter sounded better about the situations after that. I think just give constructive assessment of players is what I wanted. 

 

I think he did what he was told by the owners.  Nothing BT did changed his mind.

Virtue signaling or honestly a changed man?

Could have gone either way.

Considering he chose to shut the door on Pelletier after one bad OT shift, I lean towards the former.

Perhaps unfair, just I never bought his reasons for the What number is he thingy.

To me that was an apology without adminting it.

[conundrumed]

21 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Yup.   Now Huberdeau's fired the coach

Add Kadri and I agree. Z interviewed with Russian media. Said 90% he's not allowed to say. But last year they bought in, this year the new players didn't, to paraphrase.

Google translate from Russian, so you still have to translate a bit, e.g. he/they/we/I etc.

https://sport24-ru.translate.goog/news/hockey/2023-05-18-intervyu-nikity-zadorova-ne-popali-v-pley-off-s-kalgari-kheyt-v-rossii-lgbt-dzhersi?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Add Kadri and I agree. Z interviewed with Russian media. Said 90% he's not allowed to say. But last year they bought in, this year the new players didn't, to paraphrase.

Google translate from Russian, so you still have to translate a bit, e.g. he/they/we/I etc.

https://sport24-ru.translate.goog/news/hockey/2023-05-18-intervyu-nikity-zadorova-ne-popali-v-pley-off-s-kalgari-kheyt-v-rossii-lgbt-dzhersi?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

that is excellent, thank you

[tmac70]

On 5/21/2023 at 5:02 AM, conundrumed said:

We seriously have enough smallish forwards. I'm fine with him going elsewhere.

The Pelletier comparison makes zero sense. The team practices, so it's not just in-game looks.

The fact remains, Pelletier made an immediate effective impact on the 4th line, as did Duehr.

Phillips didn't.

The "real chance" thing is meh. He's your classic "boom or bust" 6th rder that was worth the risk. So he is in no way, shape or form a bottom 6 player.

So now you're trading Dube/Mangiapane to create a spot for him. 2 clearly better players so they better fetch you a great upgrade on D.

There. I said it. Somebody had to. Enough of the pissing and moaning over a guy lighting up a glorified men's league.

Sign him for a year and loan him to the SHL. There. There's your real chance. Watch what happens.

It's his skating and center of gravity holding him back, not us. We have enough diminutive falldown forwards. Enough of that already.

Petterson deserves the next shot if I'm reading @tmac70 correctly. He's follows the Wranglers way heavier than myself, so I'm more than happy to hear what he thinks.

But dragging Pelts into this, who clearly grabbed his chance and showed how he can enhance the team, is unfair. I think it's clear Sutter sets young guys up to fail so they really have to grab it. Then he kicked Pelts straight up the roster, really, to find some failures so he could staple him to the pressbox. But that's mho and another matter.

But if the hordes of fans want Phillips that badly, you're going to have to decide who you'll trade in the top 6. Not a chance in hell he can be a season-long bottom 6.

Size is still a thing in the NHL, whether or not you want it to be.

I can say that I watched a lot of the Wranglers even the post-season stuff. In the playoffs, you need your best players to be your best players. One thing I can safely say is that Philips, Zary, and Pelts were invisible and ineffective 98% of most games. All three of them took a pounding, especially Phillips. When 5'7 165 meets 6'2 210 you lose every battle. It would not surprise me if we hear that all 3 were hurt. Look Phillips is a feel-good story and love the kid he is talented and can be effective in open-ice situations, but when it gets real, Zary, Pelts or Phillips are going to be game-changers. The other thing that needs to be addressed is Wolf. The kid is a gamer but has won multiple awards but  trend with caution. In the last game against the Firebirds, he got beat multiple times from the dot over-the-shoulder glove side. When he goes down there is a ton of room there. The guys who scored were younger players with NHL experience. Wolf will be a very good goalie if you have a very very good structured d that blocks a lot of shots and close off lanes. If you don't play that type of system he will not be long for this league. Wranglers lost because they played slow and had a ton of turnovers and I mean a ton, similar to the Flames they don't play well against high-pressure teams. The only player that appears to have some upside was Porier, he looked fine in these games, as did Klapka and Bishop. The other note is I have no idea what the F they seen in Rooney, he is good on the PK but outside of that, he is ineffective as a player.

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

The other note is I have no idea what the F they seen in Rooney, he is good on the PK but outside of that, he is ineffective as a player.

 

The general consensus is he didn't belong on the Flames, so I am not surprised at your comment.

Was okay in NY, but maybe that was playing on a team that used offense first.

[conundrumed]

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

that is excellent, thank you

I think my fave was regarding the schedule:

"The stupidity is complete. Previously, a person made a schedule, but now an algorithm".

That feels like it applies to most things these days in general. Make it an algorithm, hire an insurance company to wrap it into a perfectly worded audit to protect the inherent errors from lawsuits.

[The_People1]

13 hours ago, tmac70 said:

The other note is I have no idea what the F they seen in Rooney, he is good on the PK but outside of that, he is ineffective as a player.

 

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

The general consensus is he didn't belong on the Flames, so I am not surprised at your comment.

Was okay in NY, but maybe that was playing on a team that used offense first.

 

Hanifin and Rooney are Boston area kids who train together in the off-season.  I think it may have been Hanifin who brought Rooney over to the Flames last summer.  If it wasn't for Hanifin, then I don't think we would've even signed Rooney.

[The_People1]

14 hours ago, tmac70 said:

I can say that I watched a lot of the Wranglers even the post-season stuff. In the playoffs, you need your best players to be your best players. One thing I can safely say is that Philips, Zary, and Pelts were invisible and ineffective 98% of most games. All three of them took a pounding, especially Phillips. When 5'7 165 meets 6'2 210 you lose every battle. It would not surprise me if we hear that all 3 were hurt. Look Phillips is a feel-good story and love the kid he is talented and can be effective in open-ice situations, but when it gets real, Zary, Pelts or Phillips are going to be game-changers. The other thing that needs to be addressed is Wolf. The kid is a gamer but has won multiple awards but  trend with caution. In the last game against the Firebirds, he got beat multiple times from the dot over-the-shoulder glove side. When he goes down there is a ton of room there. The guys who scored were younger players with NHL experience. Wolf will be a very good goalie if you have a very very good structured d that blocks a lot of shots and close off lanes. If you don't play that type of system he will not be long for this league. Wranglers lost because they played slow and had a ton of turnovers and I mean a ton, similar to the Flames they don't play well against high-pressure teams. The only player that appears to have some upside was Porier, he looked fine in these games, as did Klapka and Bishop. The other note is I have no idea what the F they seen in Rooney, he is good on the PK but outside of that, he is ineffective as a player.

 

Thanks for this though.  Great read.

 

Will keep expectations of Wolf in check.  Makes sense he needs the D to be strong infront of him, especially early.  He's a smaller goalie so it makes sense there will be room upstairs whenever he gets down low.  From what I've seen, he bounces back to his skates quick and resets fast.

 

It's too bad to hear about Zary being too soft.  I'm starting to wonder if he's a total bust.

 

And disappointed to hear about Pelletier.  I was hoping his NHL experience would help him dominate the AHL.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Hanifin and Rooney are Boston area kids who train together in the off-season.  I think it may have been Hanifin who brought Rooney over to the Flames last summer.  If it wasn't for Hanifin, then I don't think we would've even signed Rooney.

 

Maybe, but I think they looked at him during the playoffs and felt he was better than he actually was.

Not exactly used to playing a Sutter system.

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Maybe, but I think they looked at him during the playoffs and felt he was better than he actually was.

Not exactly used to playing a Sutter system.

that's the thing about playoffs. You look at Bennett's 0.64PPG in the playoffs and 0.44PPG regular season and he's going to look a lot better in the playoffs. Not that that has anything to do with Rooney. But maybe it helped him look better.

[The_People1]

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Maybe, but I think they looked at him during the playoffs and felt he was better than he actually was.

Not exactly used to playing a Sutter system.

 

Ya maybe.

 

Also, Jarnkrok was so bad for us in that playoff run.  Otherwise, we would've signed him back.

[robrob74]

22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya maybe.

 

Also, Jarnkrok was so bad for us in that playoff run.  Otherwise, we would've signed him back.

I dunno, maybe he wouldn't want to? It was like a completely different player, he looked like he couldn't play. Or just asked to really concentrate on D which completely killed his O. Which I found him fairly decent as a defensive C.