2023 Offseason

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

maybe, or maybe you're talking about the players but it's too hard to move them.

 

He's absolutely killing it in the KHL.   I'm impressed considering the KHL already has good coaches and he presumably started out with no Russian language.    

 

Just sayin, we have booted a lot of coaches lol.   and a lot of draft picks.

 

Well he started in Latvia with the national team.  But what good is an ex-NHL coach that hasn't been involved in NHL hockey in years?  

[cross16]

28 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

you sure?  I'm seeing stats on him from 2022.   granted I'm not seeing 2023.

 

Yes. Last year mind you not 2 as I originally stated

 

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/bob-hartley-resigns-from-his-head-coaching-role-in-the-khl

[jjgallow]

41 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Yes. Last year mind you not 2 as I originally stated

 

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/bob-hartley-resigns-from-his-head-coaching-role-in-the-khl

 

thanks

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

 

I was excited about Meloche hoping he could be that mold, but nope. Solid D-first Dmen are becoming a lost art and undervalued.

 

Same, after turning garbage into gold with Gudbranson, I thought Meloche could be another one.  But nope.  Very disappointed.

 

We need some shutdown D because Tanev is injured and aging.  Those bottom pair D need to be PK specialists who mainly shuts the door.  Some size and intimidation also helps in that department.  Really need that Engelland, Sarich, Gudbranson, Forbort types of D on the bottom pair.

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Same, after turning garbage into gold with Gudbranson, I thought Meloche could be another one.  But nope.  Very disappointed.

 

We need some shutdown D because Tanev is injured and aging.  Those bottom pair D need to be PK specialists who mainly shuts the door.  Some size and intimidation also helps in that department.  Really need that Engelland, Sarich, Gudbranson, Forbort types of D on the bottom pair.

 

Gudas?  Too expensive signing or too old?

[robrob74]

There was a rumour sight put out a question asking whether the Canucks should trade for Michael McLeod as a 3C option. A young center who has potential behind a slew of C's. 
 

I guess it depends on whether they view him as ELC replacements for any of their other center options. 
 

but maybe there is a deal with Jersey to be had? Do they need backend or goaltending help? Could we trade Lindholm for a D in another deal, and trade Hanifin for a C in his deal?

 

let's face it, the team will never trade for picks only. And we are in a retool hockey trades mode for current hockey players to compete now.

 

Edited in:

 

they look deep on LD

 

maybe a Markstrom with 2M retained for the C. 
 

or maybe we do Mangiapane for a C...

 

another site said they should trade Brett for Debincrat. Maybe Mangiapane could be an alternative for what would be a high priced Debbi on a new contract. Mang can be a goal scorer in the right situation and maybe that's in Jersey.

[cross16]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

There was a rumour sight put out a question asking whether the Canucks should trade for Michael McLeod as a 3C option. A young center who has potential behind a slew of C's. 
 

I guess it depends on whether they view him as ELC replacements for any of their other center options. 
 

but maybe there is a deal with Jersey to be had? Do they need backend or goaltending help? Could we trade Lindholm for a D in another deal, and trade Hanifin for a C in his deal?

 

let's face it, the team will never trade for picks only. And we are in a retool hockey trades mode for current hockey players to compete now.

 

Only if they don't sign Graves (which I'm not sure why they wouldn't. Devils might have the best d core in the league in a season or two

Siegenthaler - Hamilton

Hughes - Marino

Top 3 pick in Nemec coming too. 

 

They are in great shape on the back end. Part of the reason they weren't willing to push hard to re sign Severson.

 

They need goalie help but i'm not sure Vladar/Markstrom carry much interest for them.  

 

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Only if they don't sign Graves (which I'm not sure why they wouldn't. Devils might have the best d core in the league in a season or two

Siegenthaler - Hamilton

Hughes - Marino

Top 3 pick in Nemec coming too. 

 

They are in great shape on the back end. Part of the reason they weren't willing to push hard to re sign Severson.

 

They need goalie help but i'm not sure Vladar/Markstrom carry much interest for them.  

 

 

I did some research since I originally posted. 

looks like they're shaping up to be a powerhouse soon.

 

Maybe trading from their strength, and could be at C, they can take Mangiapane off our hands? If they're interested in Debincrat then Mangiapane could be a cheaper version? I mean, Mangiapane might even be a better all-round player on both ends of the ice? Although I don't know Debincrat very well, maybe he can PK as well. 

 

I wonder if Mangiapane could be a cheaper option to what Debincrat brings if people think that Mangiapane can get back to scoring 25-30 goals a year. I think he can if he played with the right center.

In a Markstrom deal with them, we'd probably have to retain salary, and maybe Markstrom would do well to be in a quiet market compared to Calgary. And if they are going to have a good D, then maybe that helps bring his numbers back up. Or he needs to update his prescription on his lenses, because he seemed to not see the puck very well. 

[The_People1]

11 hours ago, Ryan Man said:

I'm purely spculating and perhaps reading into what I see a bit.. but..
With the non committal exit interview with Elias Lindholm and Treliving landing in Toronto is there any (in the view of those who live in NA) thought/possibility that we could be a fit in trade with Toronto? 
Tor - Lindholm + Markstrom (NMC) +
Cgy - Marner/Nylander +

I doubt Marner is on the cards which is fine but with Tre in TO and the possibility of Marky and Lindy wanting to play at some point agian with Jarnkrok there appears to be a fit potentially?

Any thoughts and feedback is welcome.. 

 

Nylander seems to be the best target from TOR and we have the pieces to get a deal done.  I'm just not sure if Nylander wants to play in Calgary.  His dad hated the Flames when we traded him away.

 

Moreover, Nylander's next contract feels like a total trap.  Back to back 80-point seasons.  But we know he's only a 65-point player without the high powered offense of the Leafs to pad his stats... Will Nylander accept 65-point money?  No way.  Of course not.

 

And so if we didn't want to pay Lindholm $9-mil x 8 then be prepared to pay a back-to-back 80-point player $9-mil x 8... Much like our $10.5-mil guy, we don't know if he will have chemistry with anyone on this team.  It could be a total disaster.

[cross16]

Be interesting to see how their forward shake down. Bunch of cap space but with 6 RFAs (2 major ones in Bratt and Meier) be interest to see where they come out in all of this. 

 

If I had to guess I thikn they'd be looking for value but if they can't make it work for their RFAs then I could see them looking at established forwards.

 

not sure i'm seeing a good match with the Flames though. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Gudas?  Too expensive signing or too old?

 

No to Gudas.  I don't think he's that good.  

 

13 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Only if they don't sign Graves (which I'm not sure why they wouldn't. Devils might have the best d core in the league in a season or two

Siegenthaler - Hamilton

Hughes - Marino

Top 3 pick in Nemec coming too. 

 

They are in great shape on the back end. Part of the reason they weren't willing to push hard to re sign Severson.

 

They need goalie help but i'm not sure Vladar/Markstrom carry much interest for them.  

 

 

Should the Flames be interested in Graves?  I haven't watched any of him since his COL days.  If he's what we lost in Gudbranson then we should get him.  We need a stud shut down 3/4/5 guy to replace Tanev.  Graves has good size.

 

What money is Graves looking for and can NJ fit him under the cap?

[cross16]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

No to Gudas.  I don't think he's that good.  

 

 

Should the Flames be interested in Graves?  I haven't watched any of him since his COL days.  If he's what we lost in Gudbranson then we should get him.  We need a stud shut down 3/4/5 guy to replace Tanev.  Graves has good size.

 

What money is Graves looking for and can NJ fit him under the cap?

 

Don't think he has Gudbranson mean streak but he's your steady, slightly above avg 2nd pairing dman for me. I think he's the type of player that you are not going to be happy about signing July 1 though. 

 

Looking at it now, I actually don't think the Devils will sign him. Think they'll give his ice time to Luke Hughes and/or Kevin Bahl and likely save some money. I'd imagine it would take 4-4/5 mill AAV to sign Graves. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Don't think he has Gudbranson mean streak but he's your steady, slightly above avg 2nd pairing dman for me. I think he's the type of player that you are not going to be happy about signing July 1 though. 

 

Looking at it now, I actually don't think the Devils will sign him. Think they'll give his ice time to Luke Hughes and/or Kevin Bahl and likely save some money. I'd imagine it would take 4-4/5 mill AAV to sign Graves. 

 

Slightly above avg 2nd pairing... isn't that Hanifin?  Minus Hanifin's hybrid mobility and it costs $4.5-ish x 4.  As long as the defending ability is better than Hanifin then I think that's a good deal in today's prices.

[cross16]

55 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Slightly above avg 2nd pairing... isn't that Hanifin?  Minus Hanifin's hybrid mobility and it costs $4.5-ish x 4.  As long as the defending ability is better than Hanifin then I think that's a good deal in today's prices.

 

No, Hanifin is better than that. Hanifin is a very good 2nd pairing dman, borderline first pair. Hanifin would be a first pair dman on a lot of teams. 

[robrob74]

14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

No, Hanifin is better than that. Hanifin is a very good 2nd pairing dman, borderline first pair. Hanifin would be a first pair dman on a lot of teams. 

 

I think we might criticize him too much. The fact that the Flames are so good in possession metrics I think is a testament to the D. I remember when the Flames couldn't even get the puck out of their own zone until they got Bouwmeester. Something the Flames haven't been has been super hemmed in their own zone like they used to be. There are times when it does happen. 

 

 

 

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

53 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think we might criticize him too much. The fact that the Flames are so good in possession metrics I think is a testament to the D. I remember when the Flames couldn't even get the puck out of their own zone until they got Bouwmeester. Something the Flames haven't been has been super hemmed in their own zone like they used to be. There are times when it does happen. 

 

 

 

 

There seemed to be alot of that last year. I dont know enough about Graves since COL either but as others said a proper D first defenceman for Hanifin would be a move forward.

[travel_dude]

Former teammate of Coronato John Farinacci is a FA this summer.

Any interest?

 

RHS C.

[JTech780]

Of course he is going to say he is interested in staying, but what isn’t said is what price he is interested in staying at. I think you have to look at Zibenejad, Horvat and Hertl to get an idea what it is going to cost to keep Lindholm in Calgary. Lindholm is a fantastic player and he would be really hard to replace, but at what point does the organization have to stop giving out contracts that buy the back end of players careers.

 

It really does put Conroy in between a rock and a hard place, because I am sure his mandate is to stay competitive, but at the same time this team has to stop taking short a term view on the team and look 5 years out.

 

I also think there would be a number of teams that would have serious interest in Lindholm if he was available, (Boston, Columbus, Colorado, Dallas, Minnesota, Florida, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Rangers, Buffalo).

[robrob74]

7 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Of course he is going to say he is interested in staying, but what isn’t said is what price he is interested in staying at. I think you have to look at Zibenejad, Horvat and Hertl to get an idea what it is going to cost to keep Lindholm in Calgary. Lindholm is a fantastic player and he would be really hard to replace, but at what point does the organization have to stop giving out contracts that buy the back end of players careers.

 

It really does put Conroy in between a rock and a hard place, because I am sure his mandate is to stay competitive, but at the same time this team has to stop taking short a term view on the team and look 5 years out.

 

I also think there would be a number of teams that would have serious interest in Lindholm if he was available, (Boston, Columbus, Colorado, Dallas, Minnesota, Florida, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Rangers, Buffalo).

I would try Zary with Huberdeau.

 

or Huberdeau with Coronato. 
 

start trying these kids with talented players and don't view it as gifting spots but for development, much like how Huberdeau started mentoring Pelletier. 
 

I'm of the belief that talent enhances other talent. We didn't give Bennett someone to play with consistently... we see how they were developed. 
 

play elite talent with really good talent. We might develop someone to lift them up even higher.

[The_People1]

25 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Of course he is going to say he is interested in staying, but what isn’t said is what price he is interested in staying at. I think you have to look at Zibenejad, Horvat and Hertl to get an idea what it is going to cost to keep Lindholm in Calgary. Lindholm is a fantastic player and he would be really hard to replace, but at what point does the organization have to stop giving out contracts that buy the back end of players careers.

 

It really does put Conroy in between a rock and a hard place, because I am sure his mandate is to stay competitive, but at the same time this team has to stop taking short a term view on the team and look 5 years out.

 

I also think there would be a number of teams that would have serious interest in Lindholm if he was available, (Boston, Columbus, Colorado, Dallas, Minnesota, Florida, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Rangers, Buffalo).

 

It's ironic that the owners try to show the fans and it's players that they serious about winning by signing older players to big contracts when the real commitment to winning is the willingness to spend time in the basement of the NHL and lose money while doing so.

[jjgallow]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's ironic that the owners try to show the fans and it's players that they serious about winning by signing older players to big contracts when the real commitment to winning is the willingness to spend time in the basement of the NHL and lose money while doing so.

 

true dat.

 

Really though, would they lose money?  I think if they marketed it right they'd do fine.   Like really, the Flames get booted out of the playoffs pretty quick anyway, it's not like we see 20 games.

IMHO, our city is getting younger and younger players could be marketed.  without an "Oil Change" documentary.

 

Even the losing part, I think you can separate it;

 

1.  GM and up think long term, make the hard decisions, sell the expensive assets, invest in future

 

2.  Coach gets free reign to win, but he's gotta do it with the youth that he's given

 

3.  Undrafted players, undervalued player acquisitions, free agent signings are all ways the Flames can stay competitive even in a rebuilt.  Just...if any of those players' value gets too high, they're potential trade material again (unless they're willing to sign a fair contract).

 

We always go after the over-valued players lol...it is so consistent.   When's the last time we picked a Good player off waivers that was struggling?   Picked up an Aidin Hill for a 4th rounder?  

 

Selling overvalued assets and buying  undervalued assets does not necessarily mean losing.

          In our case maybe, because we're backed into a wall now.  but it doesn't have to be that.

[JTech780]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's ironic that the owners try to show the fans and it's players that they serious about winning by signing older players to big contracts when the real commitment to winning is the willingness to spend time in the basement of the NHL and lose money while doing so.

I mean I would rather spend big on Lindholm versus Kadri, but here we are. Have to move forward.

 

The things we know are, one this ownership is always and forever going to be reluctant to do a rebuild, I don’t see that changing anytime soon, at least not a prolonged rebuild (longer than 3 years).

Two Huberdeau, Kadri and Weegar are here for the foreseeable future, between their ages and contracts I just can’t see too many teams lining up to take them without us sending a sweetner or taking back another contract.

 

Three, this organization won’t stand for another Gaudreau situation. I think the ownership were especially peeved about Gaudreau walking and Calgary getting nothing. So I think that’s a big reason Lindholm and Hanifin are going to be in the news a lot between now and the draft.

 

Four, Conroy has made mention about getting younger a few times, but I do wonder if you will see him target NHL players or NHL ready players in their early 20’s not necessarily prospects and picks.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

38 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Of course he is going to say he is interested in staying, but what isn’t said is what price he is interested in staying at. I think you have to look at Zibenejad, Horvat and Hertl to get an idea what it is going to cost to keep Lindholm in Calgary. Lindholm is a fantastic player and he would be really hard to replace, but at what point does the organization have to stop giving out contracts that buy the back end of players careers.

 

It really does put Conroy in between a rock and a hard place, because I am sure his mandate is to stay competitive, but at the same time this team has to stop taking short a term view on the team and look 5 years out.

 

I also think there would be a number of teams that would have serious interest in Lindholm if he was available, (Boston, Columbus, Colorado, Dallas, Minnesota, Florida, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Rangers, Buffalo).

The idea that Lindy is in the drivers seat should be quashed. Yes he may have had a down year but value wise its still one of the best contracts out there. He has no no movement clauses and can get shipped anywhere, I believe that puts Conroy in the drivers seat. 

 

I'm not against paying him his value in todays market and hes still one of the most complete players out there but cap it at 5 year max. Be up front about it and see what happens, like others have said theres no shortage of teams that would do a deal and worry about the $$ and term later.

[robrob74]

20 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

The idea that Lindy is in the drivers seat should be quashed. Yes he may have had a down year but value wise its still one of the best contracts out there. He has no no movement clauses and can get shipped anywhere, I believe that puts Conroy in the drivers seat. 

 

I'm not against paying him his value in todays market and hes still one of the most complete players out there but cap it at 5 year max. Be up front about it and see what happens, like others have said theres no shortage of teams that would do a deal and worry about the $$ and term later.

I'd be willing to do that, or say hey, I'm happy to give you that 5 years, but the statistics show that people of your age range on average fall off and become boat anchors. 
 

can we do 5 years at 8.75, then go 5.5 the next two? If you want the 8th year we need to go to 4.5 for that 8th...

 

Brings his AAV to 7.4m though. So your 5 years at 8.75 ish might be the better option and possibly re-sign him at the lower cap.

[The_People1]

28 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I mean I would rather spend big on Lindholm versus Kadri, but here we are. Have to move forward.

 

The things we know are, one this ownership is always and forever going to be reluctant to do a rebuild, I don’t see that changing anytime soon, at least not a prolonged rebuild (longer than 3 years).

Two Huberdeau, Kadri and Weegar are here for the foreseeable future, between their ages and contracts I just can’t see too many teams lining up to take them without us sending a sweetner or taking back another contract.

 

Three, this organization won’t stand for another Gaudreau situation. I think the ownership were especially peeved about Gaudreau walking and Calgary getting nothing. So I think that’s a big reason Lindholm and Hanifin are going to be in the news a lot between now and the draft.

 

Four, Conroy has made mention about getting younger a few times, but I do wonder if you will see him target NHL players or NHL ready players in their early 20’s not necessarily prospects and picks.

 

Treliving.

 

BT has spent his whole tenure as Flames GM trying to acquire Kadri.  And there's one place Kadri would waive his NTC to go to.  Yes, Toronto.  Kadri never wanted to leave in the first place.  Can we see BT try one last time to acquire Kadri?  He has a Cup... whereas Nylander has zero, for example.

 

Huberdeau + Weegar was the hill BT died on.  Turns out TOR needs a top line LW and a solid RHS RD.  What a coincidence.  Optically, if we traded Tkachuk for Marner, would that have been a huge win for us?  So what if we had a second chance at that?  Marner for Huberdeau + Weegar.  Just the fact Marner is UFA in two years gives us so much cap flexibility and free us from the cap prison that Huberdeau+ Weegar gives us.  I would add just to make this trade happen.  Forget asking for more from TOR.  We should be happy they don't ask us to eat cap.

 

TOR will be over the cap but they have a whole summer to sort that out.  TOR wants changes to the "core 4" from what it seems.