2023 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[conundrumed]

17 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm just saying.  24 year old that was playing most of his 44 games as a winger.

But really, all I was getting at was let's not trade Lindholm.

We used Hamilton to get Lindholm.

Present value understood, but I'm not giving him away.

Has to be a bidding war and him definitely not wanting to play here.

Seems like maybe we should be fixing the problem with players wanting to leave.

How well will that 8yrs age is the real question. We are really running into these, "stay until you're 38yo" contracts. In a few short years we'll have 26-30mil tied up in guys on the wrong side of 32. It could become paralyzing.

[conundrumed]

43 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm just saying.  24 year old that was playing most of his 44 games as a winger.

But really, all I was getting at was let's not trade Lindholm.

We used Hamilton to get Lindholm.

Present value understood, but I'm not giving him away.

Has to be a bidding war and him definitely not wanting to play here.

Seems like maybe we should be fixing the problem with players wanting to leave.

Rather than stats, the eye test puts Veleno ahead of Rozie by a fair bit. Wallinder is also fairly close, try a year in the A, but a likely Hanifin replacement candidate. He's been fairly a stud in the SHL at a young age.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

The whole 1 year to UFA though.  Yzerman would be smart to wait 1 year and then sign Lindholm without trading away their 17th.  Not saying Lindholm isn't the perfect fit for Detroit, just saying the value of picks skyrocket.  Picks are simply worth more on the draft floor than they ever will be at any point in time.

That was pretty much the price for Horvat at the tdl as a pending ufa. So Lindholm should command a bit more to get a full year in. I think that's a bit more and meets a few things for us. A young replacement center that is an NHLer, a potential Hanifin/Kylington replacement and a great prospect at 17.

Although I'm dreaming, I don't know what more we'd expect to get for Lindholm.

And again, we're absolutely terrified to make a trade. So we won't make one regardless. We are in longterm marriages that can't end without pandemonium and black eyes.lol

Rather than, you know, just be level-headed and leave emotion out of it. That would be a nice change.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Rather than stats, the eye test puts Veleno ahead of Rozie by a fair bit. Wallinder is also fairly close, try a year in the A, but a likely Hanifin replacement candidate. He's been fairly a stud in the SHL at a young age.

 

Without spending a ton of time on streams, I don't have the extra time to spend following a team I'm not a fan of.  

At most, there was telecasts of the Flames or Oilers against DET 4 times.

Perhaps Leafs or others playing them in the early Saturday game.

SN owns the market in Canada, with some east games on TSN, only in those regions.

It sucks.

 

I missed that part of the trade where you added Wallinder.  I was thinking this was a to-be-drafted player that I had not heard of, going 17th overall.  So, what's the story on him?  Is he comitted to any time in Sweden?  I get a little concerned with some of the recent rules for some of the Euro leagues if they were signed there.

 

 

[conundrumed]

10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Without spending a ton of time on streams, I don't have the extra time to spend following a team I'm not a fan of.  

At most, there was telecasts of the Flames or Oilers against DET 4 times.

Perhaps Leafs or others playing them in the early Saturday game.

SN owns the market in Canada, with some east games on TSN, only in those regions.

It sucks.

 

I missed that part of the trade where you added Wallinder.  I was thinking this was a to-be-drafted player that I had not heard of, going 17th overall.  So, what's the story on him?  Is he comitted to any time in Sweden?  I get a little concerned with some of the recent rules for some of the Euro leagues if they were signed there.

 

 

He finished his SHL season last year and made it to GR for one game. His ELC starts this season.

17th, Veleno and Wallinder would literally be prying Lindholm from Calgary. That little fantasy trade won't happen but it's likely perfect for both teams. Detroit gets the best player, Calgary gets a young C, a potential Hanifin replacement that is 6'4" and an excellent skater/puck mover, and a solid boost to the prospect pool at 17th.

Detroit's LD is Walman, Edvinsson, Maata. Johansson ready for the NHL, Viro, Sebrango, McIsaac. Shai Buium in university. So still lots, gotta give to get.

Horvat wouldn't have been a great fit, but Lindholm is almost ideal. Wouldn't solve the Flames issues, but would definitely soften the blow and provide some latitude for moving on from Hanifin/Kylington.

Flames fans would hate it.lol

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

He finished his SHL season last year and made it to GR for one game. His ELC starts this season.

17th, Veleno and Wallinder would literally be prying Lindholm from Calgary. That little fantasy trade won't happen but it's likely perfect for both teams. Detroit gets the best player, Calgary gets a young C, a potential Hanifin replacement that is 6'4" and an excellent skater/puck mover, and a solid boost to the prospect pool at 17th.

Detroit's LD is Walman, Edvinsson, Maata. Johansson ready for the NHL, Viro, Sebrango, McIsaac. Shai Buium in university. So still lots, gotta give to get.

Horvat wouldn't have been a great fit, but Lindholm is almost ideal. Wouldn't solve the Flames issues, but would definitely soften the blow and provide some latitude for moving on from Hanifin/Kylington.

Flames fans would hate it.lol

 

As if there are trade we ever love. 

 

I'm not adverse to the trade idea, just that we have to get it right if we are moving on.  It also sets up the need to trade Backlund if it happened.  Ig I had my drothers, I would start with Backlund, not Lindholm, but the player's decision may come before the draft.  If so, it starts a chain reaction.  Re-tool.  Starts with a draft pick.  I wonder if the scouts are ready for this kind of move.   

[JTech780]

I am having a hard time with this draft. In our range I am seeing guys like Danielson, Yeager, Ritchie. These guys will all play in the NHL and will be solid players, but they all seem like they have middle 6 ceilings.

 

Sale, Davorsky are all over the place as far as rankings, but are seen as high risk/high reward picks.

 

I am of two minds, I think the Flames need to find a bonafide star in this draft, at the same time their prospect pool is not in good enough shape to be taking risks.

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I am having a hard time with this draft. In our range I am seeing guys like Danielson, Yeager, Ritchie. These guys will all play in the NHL and will be solid players, but they all seem like they have middle 6 ceilings.

 

Sale, Davorsky are all over the place as far as rankings, but are seen as high risk/high reward picks.

 

I am of two minds, I think the Flames need to find a bonafide star in this draft, at the same time their prospect pool is not in good enough shape to be taking risks.

 

Perhaps the best solution is trading down a smidge, just to pick up a prospect or 2nd round pick.

Of course, that depends on who is left when we get to our pick.

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, JTech780 said:

I am having a hard time with this draft. In our range I am seeing guys like Danielson, Yeager, Ritchie. These guys will all play in the NHL and will be solid players, but they all seem like they have middle 6 ceilings.

 

Sale, Davorsky are all over the place as far as rankings, but are seen as high risk/high reward picks.

 

I am of two minds, I think the Flames need to find a bonafide star in this draft, at the same time their prospect pool is not in good enough shape to be taking risks.

I'd be good dropping to 20 to recoup a 3rd if Musty is still there. He's potentially better than some of the 5-10 guys imho.

If he doesn't reach his potential he's still an easy middle 6. Between the guys you've listed, I'd take Musty and a 3rd all day, and not because I don't like those players.

[jjgallow]

On 5/28/2023 at 2:38 PM, travel_dude said:

 

I'm just saying.  24 year old that was playing most of his 44 games as a winger.

But really, all I was getting at was let's not trade Lindholm.

We used Hamilton to get Lindholm.

Present value understood, but I'm not giving him away.

Has to be a bidding war and him definitely not wanting to play here.

Seems like maybe we should be fixing the problem with players wanting to leave.

 

but isn't that exactly what you're doing if you don't move him now?

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

but isn't that exactly what you're doing if you don't move him now?

Say what?  If he signs, how are we giving him away?

[jjgallow]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Say what?  If he signs, how are we giving him away?

 

well that's the first question, yes... if he'll sign.

the 3 basic answers are:

• Yes
• No
• Unsure

 

We've not had good luck rolling the dice with the "unsure" option.

 

If Yes, there is the question of what kind of contract he will accept.

Favorable

Unfavorable

 

 We haven't had good luck here either, and this can Also result in us losing him for nothing or similar (Monahan etc).

 

Basically 6 different possibilities above and only 1/6 doesn't end badly if we keep him. imho

 

I'm not saying that we rush out to sell him for cheap, but perhaps it makes sense to do some shopping in parallel with negotiations before the season starts.

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

well that's the first question, yes... if he'll sign.

the 3 basic answers are:

• Yes
• No
• Unsure

 

We've not had good luck rolling the dice with the "unsure" option.

 

If Yes, there is the question of what kind of contract he will accept.

Favorable

Unfavorable

 

 We haven't had good luck here either, and this can Also result in us losing him for nothing or similar (Monahan etc).

 

Basically 6 different possibilities above and only 1/6 doesn't end badly if we keep him. imho

 

I'm not saying that we rush out to sell him for cheap, but perhaps it makes sense to do some shopping in parallel with negotiations before the season starts.

 

 

Well, we also lost Monahan at a huge loss. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

well that's the first question, yes... if he'll sign.

the 3 basic answers are:

• Yes
• No
• Unsure

 

We've not had good luck rolling the dice with the "unsure" option.

 

If Yes, there is the question of what kind of contract he will accept.

Favorable

Unfavorable

 

 We haven't had good luck here either, and this can Also result in us losing him for nothing or similar (Monahan etc).

 

Basically 6 different possibilities above and only 1/6 doesn't end badly if we keep him. imho

 

I'm not saying that we rush out to sell him for cheap, but perhaps it makes sense to do some shopping in parallel with negotiations before the season starts.

 

The comps for him are all around mid $8M.  He was negative when BT had quit and Sutter was still around.  Not saying Sutter was his biggest issue, but I think he had an issue with messing with the roster after 6 games and never going back there.  That's just opinion, but not really out of the blue.

 

If your feeling that 8-9M is unfavourable, then you won't be happy.

 

I really don't get your fractions.  1/6 is it?

1 - he signs, over 9M

2 - he signs less than 9M

3 - he doesn't sign, we are trading him

4 - he doesn't sign, we keep him

5 - he may sign and does for over 9M

6 - he may sign and does for less than 9M

7 - he may not sign and we trade him

8 - he may not sign and we keep him

 

4/8 are favorable to us, as in we don't overpay and don't lose him for nothing.

Are you guessing the return in any of the trade scenarios?

Are you thinking there is any way we don't have him signed and go past TDL without trading him?

6/8 favourable then.

 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Well, we also lost Monahan at a huge loss. 

 

We chose to replace him with a free agent.

If it was a trade then we traded Kadri for Monahan and a 1st etc.

Can't really look at it that way of course.

We sold an asset that had little value due to being a huge risk at $6.375M

 

I hated that we traded him, but he was a huge risk if he played at a 4th line level.

Him being the full year on LTIR wouldn't make us any better off.

[Thebrewcrew]

Pronman’s latest mock.

 

Flames taking RHD Axel Sandin-Pellikka. RHD, would fill a major need in the organization.

 

My issue is that he has them passing on Colby Barlow, Zach Benson, Oliver Moore and Brayden Yager.

 

Big reason why it would be nice to have multiple  1st’s this year 

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Pronman’s latest mock.

 

Flames taking RHD Axel Sandin-Pellikka. RHD, would fill a major need in the organization.

 

My issue is that he has them passing on Colby Barlow, Zach Benson, Oliver Moore and Brayden Yager.

 

Big reason why it would be nice to have multiple  1st’s this year 

 

Maybe getting a 2nd first would be a great idea right now, and if passing on those players, maybe getting a first around where we are drafting could help us out in getting one of those other guys and the RHD. 

[Sarasti]

9 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Pronman’s latest mock.

 

Flames taking RHD Axel Sandin-Pellikka. RHD, would fill a major need in the organization.

 

My issue is that he has them passing on Colby Barlow, Zach Benson, Oliver Moore and Brayden Yager.

 

Big reason why it would be nice to have multiple  1st’s this year 

 

I have PTSD from the last time we held multiple first round picks.

[Thebrewcrew]

20 minutes ago, Sarasti said:

 

I have PTSD from the last time we held multiple first round picks.

Yeah that was a major miss, for sure. That entire 2013 Flames draft class they whiffed after Monahan 

 

 

I remember a lot of fans being so angry the Flames took Poirier over Shinkaruk lol

[Sarasti]

18 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Yeah that was a major miss, for sure. That entire 2013 Flames draft class they whiffed after Monahan 

 

 

I remember a lot of fans being so angry the Flames took Poirier over Shinkaruk lol

 

Then we ended up with Shinkaruk anyway. We've actually had 8 players from the 2013 first round in our system at some point in the last 10 years.

3 have provided meaningful value for us; Monahan, Lindholm, Zadorov.

[Thebrewcrew]

1 minute ago, Sarasti said:

 

Then we ended up with Shinkaruk anyway. We've actually had 8 players from the 2013 first round in our system at some point in the last 10 years.

3 have provided meaningful value for us; Monahan, Lindholm, Zadorov.

Yup kind of funny.

 

The strength of that draft was in the top half of the first round. The one that really stands out with the Poirier/Klimchuk picks is Shea Theodore, that would have been fantastic, but of course hindsight. Burakovsky and Hartman went after as well, good players but not worth getting upset over.

 

Drafting is hard, but it's crazy that the Flames were able to have as competitive team as they did when they only went 2/14 between the 2013 and 2014 drafts. Only got NHLers out of their 1st picks which were 4th and 6th.

[Sarasti]

20 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Yup kind of funny.

 

The strength of that draft was in the top half of the first round. The one that really stands out with the Poirier/Klimchuk picks is Shea Theodore, that would have been fantastic, but of course hindsight. Burakovsky and Hartman went after as well, good players but not worth getting upset over.

 

Drafting is hard, but it's crazy that the Flames were able to have as competitive team as they did when they only went 2/14 between the 2013 and 2014 drafts. Only got NHLers out of their 1st picks which were 4th and 6th.

 

That I did not know.

And kinda wish I still didn't 😅

 

[travel_dude]

Three interesting players, but not sure what the chances of them making it to us....

Colby Barlow

Ryan Leonard

Gabe Perreault

[conundrumed]

Perrault could be available at 16. I'm not much of a fan personally. He had a draft year like NHLers have ufa years.

I like players that show they may/are likely to have the ability to play through players. So guys like Barlow, Leonard, Dvorsky, Sale, Musty, Ritchie, Wood, Brindley for wingers I can see that. Perrault, Cristall, Perron, Gauthier, Heidt I'm more reticent about.

I kind of like to try to imagine trading players into each others situation.

The 2 I find the most enticing are Wood and Musty. I really like both but put Musty ahead for skating and deft hands.

Now if I traded them out with Leonard and Perrault, I believe the former would match numbers easily where the latter would struggle to match in that situation imho. Wood and Musty are playing a significantly higher level of competition.

As much as I admire the USHL for 17yo players, NHL-drafted players move on to University hockey. Whereby in the CHL, there is a lot of NHL-drafted talent remaining, so the strength of competition is much higher. I try not to get too high on USHL numbers, I'd almost cut them in half when it isn't an obvious star player.

I also try to completely ignore tournaments because every team outside of the US(NTDP) is disjointed filled with kids that rarely play together.

It will be an interesting draft. I kind of like being invested so my memory gets jarred a few years later about where any particular rookie came from. Particularly guys I'm too high or too low on so I can learn from it. The NHL is such a massive leap for where they're playing now. It's mainly about immeasurable personal fortitude and keeping mentally balanced through thick and thin. So a lot changes post-draft.

 

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Perrault could be available at 16. I'm not much of a fan personally. He had a draft year like NHLers have ufa years.

I like players that show they may/are likely to have the ability to play through players. So guys like Barlow, Leonard, Dvorsky, Sale, Musty, Ritchie, Wood, Brindley for wingers I can see that. Perrault, Cristall, Perron, Gauthier, Heidt I'm more reticent about.

I kind of like to try to imagine trading players into each others situation.

The 2 I find the most enticing are Wood and Musty. I really like both but put Musty ahead for skating and deft hands.

Now if I traded them out with Leonard and Perrault, I believe the former would match numbers easily where the latter would struggle to match in that situation imho. Wood and Musty are playing a significantly higher level of competition.

As much as I admire the USHL for 17yo players, NHL-drafted players move on to University hockey. Whereby in the CHL, there is a lot of NHL-drafted talent remaining, so the strength of competition is much higher. I try not to get too high on USHL numbers, I'd almost cut them in half when it isn't an obvious star player.

I also try to completely ignore tournaments because every team outside of the US(NTDP) is disjointed filled with kids that rarely play together.

It will be an interesting draft. I kind of like being invested so my memory gets jarred a few years later about where any particular rookie came from. Particularly guys I'm too high or too low on so I can learn from it. The NHL is such a massive leap for where they're playing now. It's mainly about immeasurable personal fortitude and keeping mentally balanced through thick and thin. So a lot changes post-draft.

 

 

The thing that seems to favor Perreault (in rankings) is his seingle season scoring record.

My preference would be Wood, Barlow first, but those may not make it to us.