GDT - Kraken @ FLAMES - Tues 1 November 2022.

[A_Flame_in_Oiler_Land]

Did Sutter make a big mistake here

[LouCifer]

[The_Tribal Chief]

why we blaming sutter this is totally on the players he is trying to fix lines

[flames for life]

I will not be blaming a poor goalie on this one.  He has been scored on by 2 on 1, breakaway, and 4 on 1!  This is totally on the team that hung Vladar out to dry!  Flames are not attentive, and making lazy plays that are getting jumped on.  If they lose this game, they will have definitely have earned it!!

[LouCifer]

4 minutes ago, flames for life said:

I will not be blaming a poor goalie on this one.  He has been scored on by 2 on 1, breakaway, and 4 on 1!  This is totally on the team that hung Vladar out to dry!  Flames are not attentive, and making lazy plays that are getting jumped on.  If they lose this game, they will have definitely have earned it!!

💯

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, The_Snowbear said:

why we blaming sutter this is totally on the players he is trying to fix lines

Way too early though. You don't build chemistry by putting everyone on notice 7 games in. Hated the idea from the outset. Why break up Mang-Kadri-Dube and a great 4th line, solid 3rd to "fix" a first line that needs time to get in sync?

[A_Flame_in_Oiler_Land]

[LouCifer]

I don’t mind Sutter seeing if there’s any magic between Hubie and Kadri, but there clearly wasn’t any instant chemistry. 

[LouCifer]

Oh well. Some work needs to be done. Goodnight boys. 

[pikey7883]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Way too early though. You don't build chemistry by putting everyone on notice 7 games in. Hated the idea from the outset. Why break up Mang-Kadri-Dube and a great 4th line, solid 3rd to "fix" a first line that needs time to get in sync?

I agree that the DNA line has been our best  line and breaking it up has inherent risks. However sometimes you use your players who are going to try and get others going, which is what I think he is trying to do. He also knows he needs to get Rozie in. But maybe too much change on every line 🤷‍♂️. Who am I to question what Sutter does? Lol

[Thebrewcrew]

Bad loss from the Flames tonight. It's hard to win in this league, when you have a two goal lead in the 3rd, you need to win that game. Couldn't nail down the game Saturday either.

 

It was a very sloppy game from the Flames and they didn't look particularly sharp. Seattle's not a stingy team so the Flames were fortunate to get 4 tonight. 

 

Not gonna fault Vladar tonight, the team gave up some high end chances. I don't think Darryl will be happy though. One thing worth noting though is that your goalie still needs to make a big save. Vladar didn't tonight. Daccord made a cross-crease stop on Lewis on a short handed odd-man rush. 

[taz89]

24 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

My thoughts exactly about this game!  Flames in deep doo doo here

[taz89]

First losing streak of the year, lets see if they can stop it here.  They need a big response on Thursday or we can very quickly find ourselves at .500

[travel_dude]

The only thing that concerns me is that we are 5-3-0 this year.

8 games, where a lot of teams played 9-10 so far.

We've started from behind and come back to win.

We've had leads where we allowed the other team back in.

Concerning, but it's not panic time.

Goaltending is not a problem.

Turnovers with no support seems to be hounding us.

 

Lucic's turnover that lead to the GWG.

Kadri's turnover was worse, as there was no support behind him.

But 5 forgetable minutes killed this game.

 

[cross16]

It's early so zero concern here, but despite their record I actually don't think the Flames have played very good hockey to start the year. They've had moments for sure but their d zone game has been off since the start of the year. More positives then negatives but given how they have played I had no problem trying different lines. It's a long season and really outside the Kadri line no line was knocking it out of the park. 

 

Takes time to find your footing and really the first 10-12 games of the season don't really matter so having a team taking time to find their game is not a big surprise, nor a concern. Just need to start getting puck management and d zone coverage squared away. 

 

I will say while it isn't his "fault" if Vladar wants to take a step he needs to find a way to make saves that impact the game. It's part of the reason why I don't love the extension the Flames game him. As I said not his fault and for sure you want the team playing better in front of him but at the same time 5 goals isn't ok. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I will say while it isn't his "fault" if Vladar wants to take a step he needs to find a way to make saves that impact the game. It's part of the reason why I don't love the extension the Flames game him. As I said not his fault and for sure you want the team playing better in front of him but at the same time 5 goals isn't ok. 

 

4-3 goal (PP) - little chance for a goalie to stop the shot on the cross crease pass

4-4 goal (SH) - breakaway from the blueline in; was a brutal drop pass that created it

5-4 goal (EV) - turnover with last man being Lucic, 4 on 1

 

I get that he needs to keep them in the game, but only one of them had any defensive help.

Markstrom played better in the Oilers game, but they also had more team effort and less wide open chances.

[flames for life]

37 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

4-3 goal (PP) - little chance for a goalie to stop the shot on the cross crease pass

4-4 goal (SH) - breakaway from the blueline in; was a brutal drop pass that created it

5-4 goal (EV) - turnover with last man being Lucic, 4 on 1

 

I get that he needs to keep them in the game, but only one of them had any defensive help.

Markstrom played better in the Oilers game, but they also had more team effort and less wide open chances.

Vladar did make some very significant stops, and tbh even then, the team was not supportive.  Personally speaking, I think the defense has the potential to be the best in the league, both offensively and defensively, but right now they look slow and disjointed.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

The only thing that concerns me is that we are 5-3-0 this year.

8 games, where a lot of teams played 9-10 so far.

We've started from behind and come back to win.

We've had leads where we allowed the other team back in.

Concerning, but it's not panic time.

Goaltending is not a problem.

Turnovers with no support seems to be hounding us.

 

Lucic's turnover that lead to the GWG.

Kadri's turnover was worse, as there was no support behind him.

But 5 forgetable minutes killed this game.

 

 

i get that the Flames teams every year are different, but this D has been prone to those turnovers, and for whatever reason, regardless of the goalie or the players involved, they've bitten us in the Hash Rate more than most. It might be that i don't watch other teams that often anymore due to wanting more of a life with others who aren't into hockey, so I don't see that this is a problem across the league? It tightens up in the playoffs because I don't see the other teams having that problem... although. I do see turnovers that the Flames can capitalize on, I just see the difference lies in the goals for and against where it seems the turnovers and transition goals seem to cost the Flames more. Maybe it actually doesn't, but just from eye views it seems that way....

 

objects in the mirror are closer than they appear? 
 

I wonder if what you're getting at is teams playing more are getting into the rhythms of the season and not playing isn't getting the team to gel the same way as other teams have. 
 

i worry that we got some wins when the teams are only just starting to become or grow into themselves, we are still working out who fits with who and where the chemistry lies. And once teams start actually caring about hockey and the separation between the top and bottom of the league becomes clearer, will we be running on all cylinders by then? By point percentage I think we are now third in the division.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

It's early so zero concern here, but despite their record I actually don't think the Flames have played very good hockey to start the year. They've had moments for sure but their d zone game has been off since the start of the year. More positives then negatives but given how they have played I had no problem trying different lines. It's a long season and really outside the Kadri line no line was knocking it out of the park. 

 

Takes time to find your footing and really the first 10-12 games of the season don't really matter so having a team taking time to find their game is not a big surprise, nor a concern. Just need to start getting puck management and d zone coverage squared away. 

 

I will say while it isn't his "fault" if Vladar wants to take a step he needs to find a way to make saves that impact the game. It's part of the reason why I don't love the extension the Flames game him. As I said not his fault and for sure you want the team playing better in front of him but at the same time 5 goals isn't ok. 

not too concerned, but it's good they got winds early to mitigate the growing process that is needed. Had they lost a few more of those then it looks bleak. I think they have about 5-7 games to figure it out. Where will they be at between games 15-20? Where are they after 20? That's when the real teams start to come out and wins get a bit harder.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

4-3 goal (PP) - little chance for a goalie to stop the shot on the cross crease pass

4-4 goal (SH) - breakaway from the blueline in; was a brutal drop pass that created it

5-4 goal (EV) - turnover with last man being Lucic, 4 on 1

 

I get that he needs to keep them in the game, but only one of them had any defensive help.

Markstrom played better in the Oilers game, but they also had more team effort and less wide open chances.

 

Vladar could have had more help and he also could have played better and stopped 1 of, or 2 of, those opportunities. 

 

Both statements can be true. At the end of the day 5 goals on 26 shots against, 19 scoring chances against, and 7 high danger chances against isn't a good performance. 

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i get that the Flames teams every year are different, but this D has been prone to those turnovers, and for whatever reason, regardless of the goalie or the players involved, they've bitten us in the Hash Rate more than most. It might be that i don't watch other teams that often anymore due to wanting more of a life with others who aren't into hockey, so I don't see that this is a problem across the league? It tightens up in the playoffs because I don't see the other teams having that problem... although. I do see turnovers that the Flames can capitalize on, I just see the difference lies in the goals for and against where it seems the turnovers and transition goals seem to cost the Flames more. Maybe it actually doesn't, but just from eye views it seems that way....

 

objects in the mirror are closer than they appear? 
 

I wonder if what you're getting at is teams playing more are getting into the rhythms of the season and not playing isn't getting the team to gel the same way as other teams have. 
 

i worry that we got some wins when the teams are only just starting to become or grow into themselves, we are still working out who fits with who and where the chemistry lies. And once teams start actually caring about hockey and the separation between the top and bottom of the league becomes clearer, will we be running on all cylinders by then? By point percentage I think we are now third in the division.

 

What I am referring to is that we have subtracted 2 (3 incl Monny) players that were part of the core for multiple years.  These are support players, these are the top 2 players on the team that left.  And we don't currently have the middle pairing LD yet.  Weegar will take a bit of time to focus on the basics of Flames D-zone and puck movement.  He's not there yet.

 

But the bigger issue is we lost two top line players and are trying to integrate two new players.  Huberdeau was on a run and gun team, which is why Tkachuk is able to score at this time.  He was always more about offense.  Huberdeau has to speed up his game where it comes naturally, but in a Flames system.  

 

We are getting burned on turnovers because we haven't solidified the defense.  We are talking about wide open players and rushes.  We don't get many of those opportunities because we don't run and gun.  And we are a bit slower in that type of transition.  We saw it a bit more last year where Johnny would be sprung.  That level of speed hasn't yet shown itself, meaning that only Kadri and Backlund are seeing those develop.  Lindholm is playing a much more conservative game.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Vladar could have had more help and he also could have played better and stopped 1 of, or 2 of, those opportunities. 

 

Both statements can be true. 

 

Oh yeah, all I was saying was that 3 goals he had little chance on.  The first breakaway was probably on him, though is was akin to a shootout goal.  I don't blames the loss on Vladar any more than I did on Markstrom.  Save a bunch, let in one too many.

[sak22]

Schedule makers have really given the team some weird looks the last 2 years, from last year playing out the entire eastern time zone portion by the all-star break, to this year and 9 of 10 at home with 3 2 day breaks and a 3 day break.  I don't even remember the last time they had an 8 game homestand.  I think there is a little home fatigue going on, after last night I'd say even the crowd could use a break (I know I could).

[tmac70]

This one stung actually the last 2 hurt. Having a lead in both and the blowing it late in the game is not good practice. Mildly I have a concern on Huburdeau and Weegar this has been a extremely hard fit for them, as oppossed to Kadri. Kadri has fit in seamlessly, always in the right position, found chemistry with Mags and Dube becasue the play the same style. Weegar seems really tenative at times, hesitant with the puck in our zone and jumps plays in the offensive zone at the wrong time. Huberdeau in his defense has been targeted, much like Gaudreau a few years back. Teams and players know he is going to pass 99% of the time, if you watched the games he has no time and space or has not yet learned to create it for himself in this system. Both players are having a hard time adjusting to this system. What I see are players not wanting to make mistakes but make mistakes. Sutter evaluation is correct in that Hubie and to some extent Weegar need to play faster. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

It's early so zero concern here, but despite their record I actually don't think the Flames have played very good hockey to start the year. They've had moments for sure but their d zone game has been off since the start of the year. More positives then negatives but given how they have played I had no problem trying different lines. It's a long season and really outside the Kadri line no line was knocking it out of the park. 

 

Takes time to find your footing and really the first 10-12 games of the season don't really matter so having a team taking time to find their game is not a big surprise, nor a concern. Just need to start getting puck management and d zone coverage squared away. 

 

I will say while it isn't his "fault" if Vladar wants to take a step he needs to find a way to make saves that impact the game. It's part of the reason why I don't love the extension the Flames game him. As I said not his fault and for sure you want the team playing better in front of him but at the same time 5 goals isn't ok. 

TBH I hope they have to fight for every point they get this year. With last season and the purple gatorade season we've all seen what happens when the team clinches early and becomes the "favorite" in the west. I'd like to see them have to battle to the end for seeding and then carry the momentum into the playoffs.