Flames 22/23 Lineup

[cross16]

I agree 100% with what connundrumed just said and just to add that the Wideman effect doesn't make sense to me given the fact that the Flames were amongst the lowest penalized teams in the league last year.

 

Really no such thing as good officiating, in any league honestly. 

[pcs]

Overall this season the reffing seems to me to have been equally bad for us and our opponents. Some games tilt a bit more in our favour, some games go the other way, and every once in a while you get that rare bird: a well-called game… 

[pcs]

But yeah, we’re a highly penalized team because we’ve got guys taking really stupid penalties that are absolutely fair to call.

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

ok.  Fair post.

 

But I do have a defense/suggestion.

 

That thread you speak of already exists.  Problem is I can't find it.   

 

I scrolled back 5 pages though, and I did find 4 other threads started by people who also couldn't find it and started their own.   I can't find a lot of threads, actually, in the current format.

 

I would suggest moving these game-day threads back to their original home.  Totally up to you, jmho.

 

 

 

p.s....I also have one other less urgent but ongoing suggestion:   Maybe we just stop archiving/locking/truncating threads. 

 So many incredible threads are lost.  If I really want to see the forum in it's prime I have to go on the wayback machine because it's all been archived/locked/truncated here.     I think if you just let people decide which topics are the most relevant for them to talk on, the forum will naturally be more organized.   Some topics die.   Some topics lose relevance for 6-12 months, and then become relevant again.     Anyway in my post that you roasted me for, I actually said it's admittedly naive to blame the GM.   It goes beyond that.  To the owners, and the fans.   I made a topic on that 4 years ago.   People were furious that anything could be their fault lol.   That thread may not be relevant again until we really are in a rebuild.   But that time is going to come.   Some topics really become relevant in 5-year, 8 year cycles.  That's natural.  And it's ok.

..

Another example...the defense thread.  Probably the most important thread in this forum but due to human nature I have to bump it every 3 months to keep it from getting archived.   Even now, in a highly relevant year.

 

None of the mods or the admin (is there really only 2 of us?) do this as a job and really it's just best effort.  I don't presume to expect Peeps to spend a lot of time fixing threads and working on creating different looks.  To be far, this is mostly self moderated and only the most insulting or bad behavior needs action on our part.  We haven't been hit by bots or attacks, though there has been a couple examples that seem to match bot behavior (thanks for pointing them out). Mostly the discussion is respectful, but as you can imagine certain repeated points of view can draw out some anger. 

 

Anyway, if Peeps wants to change the site, that is up to him.  I like the suggestion about the GDT to keep them grouped, but that may not be possible right now.  Not sure that I am seeing the same issues with discussion though.  Some of the old threads are frankly old.  A recent game with observations of the play and discussions afterwards doesn't kill off other discussions.  But I don't think we need to drag up a thread about the 2016 draft just to talk about Dube.  I mean lets face it, if 5 games have been played since the last time a thread had activity, then maybe the interest has died off a bit.  

[travel_dude]

NO changes to Flames lines at practice, other than Zohorna in for Ritchie (injury).

Could they possibly try swapping Lucic with Ruzie?

No RHS on that line is one thing, but forcing Hubey to RW so you can play Lucic?

Stupid.

[MP5029]

8 hours ago, travel_dude said:

NO changes to Flames lines at practice, other than Zohorna in for Ritchie (injury).

Could they possibly try swapping Lucic with Ruzie?

No RHS on that line is one thing, but forcing Hubey to RW so you can play Lucic?

Stupid.

Exactly Lucic on any line above 4th is just stupid, and a burden to any talent above 4th line 

[Thebrewcrew]

But will Pelletier actually get to play? 

[sak22]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

But will Pelletier actually get to play? 

From a cap perspective you are better off going with Phillips if the player is just going to sit.  Also from a financial standpoint Pelts makes half of what Phillips does in the A, but who knows.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

But will Pelletier actually get to play? 

 

I think that Pelts will get to play, more so than Phillips did.

Duehr might replace Ritchie (Zohorna) on the 4th line.

That assumes that Lucic doesn't get sent there.

I think Lucic on LW messes up Hubey's passing and zone entries.

 

If I had to guess....

 

Dube-Lindholm-Toffoli

Huberdeau-Kadri-Pelletier

Mange-Backlund-Coleman

Lucic-Ruzicka-Lewis (Duehr)

 

I may be missing news on an injury (Toffoli was briefly hurt last night).

Or Ruzicka is in the dog house.

[Thebrewcrew]

With Ritchie being injured, Duehr makes sense as a recall. Different styles, but he can bring energy, which is what Ritchie's role is.

 

The real intrigue is with Pelletier. He likely could slot in for one of Ruzicka/Zohorna. 

[conundrumed]

13 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

With Ritchie being injured, Duehr makes sense as a recall. Different styles, but he can bring energy, which is what Ritchie's role is.

 

The real intrigue is with Pelletier. He likely could slot in for one of Ruzicka/Zohorna. 

Just wonder who else might be dinged up and need a bit of down time.

I’d assume mid-6 for Pelletier.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Just wonder who else might be dinged up and need a bit of down time.

I’d assume mid-6 for Pelletier.

 

THere isn't any news of dinged up players, other than Toffoli limping off the ice after a shift.

He returned next shift though.

There's a chance that Lucic goes to the 4th line.

Sutter doesn't like depth players scoring, so he will get sent down.

JK.  Really Sutter seems to like to make changes when he sees something he doesn't like.

Especially after a win.

It's also possible the move of Lucic was to get him going.

Now he can go back to the 4th and get them going.

Sutter's brain.

 

[cross16]

What’s most curious about the timing here is it’s coming off Treliving making these comments after being asked if his desire to add to his top 9 has changed:

 

“That’s still an area, if you look at our group and the way it has performed, another forward in that top 9 group is something we could use.
Whether that’s internal or external is yet to be seen.”

 

obviously that last sentence is what stands out. 
 

from this interview 

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

^^^

You have to think that BT isn't interested in Lucic being part of that group.

Seems like a Sutter=BT conflict.

Bring up Phillips, Sutter give him 16 minutes in 2 games.

Then replaces him with Lucic and Zohorna.

I tried your thing and it didn't work, now see what I can do with big guys.

 

We lose a 4th liner and decide to bring up another 4th liner and a top 9 player.

Meaning we have Lucic, Zohorna, Lewis, Duehr, and Ruzicka to choose from.

For the top 9, we have Ruzicka and Pelletier that really belong there.

 

Back to BT.

No point in only looking at trades if you don't know what you have.

Sutter really decides the future of the prospects, basing it on camp.

An injury is the perfect time to try some new things.

We shall see how far that goes.

[conundrumed]

Hopefully Pelletier can get so minutes in. I'm a fan of how he plays and I think that he'll be an effective NHLer.

Not sold that he's ready yet, but he's a smart player with a good skill set. If any prospect won't hurt the roster, I'd guess his game. Keep it safe and simple. He's a good skater and solid IQ to keep it simple.

Or it's just bonus money, he's young.

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Hopefully Pelletier can get so minutes in. I'm a fan of how he plays and I think that he'll be an effective NHLer.

Not sold that he's ready yet, but he's a smart player with a good skill set. If any prospect won't hurt the roster, I'd guess his game. Keep it safe and simple. He's a good skater and solid IQ to keep it simple.

Or it's just bonus money, he's young.

 

I was wondering where Pelts best fits in this lineup.

I think you could easil play Dube with Hibey and Kadri.

IIRC, Dube and Kadri had great chemistry, just Mange messing it up a bit.

We tried Mange with Toffoli and Lindholm, but I don't remember it clicking.

 

So, here's my crazy suggestion for using Pelletier:

1) Pelletier-Lindholm-Toffoli

2) Huberdeau-Kadri-Dube

3) Mange-Backs-Coleman

4) Lucic-Ruzicka-Duehr

 

1) Pelletier has always been more of a setup guy, and he has two targets.  He won't play much if at all on the PP, so his minutes won't be extreme.

2) Dube can take draws when Kadri has a rough night.  I think this could be a dominant line.  

3) Stable line, maybe doesn't score as much as last year but you can trust them not to be scored on.

4) Duehr and Ruzicka add some speed, Lucic can get them the puck.  Duehr isn't having a great year, but he is rugged and can skate.  IIRC, he has better hands than Lewis.

[pikey7883]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I was wondering where Pelts best fits in this lineup.

I think you could easil play Dube with Hibey and Kadri.

IIRC, Dube and Kadri had great chemistry, just Mange messing it up a bit.

We tried Mange with Toffoli and Lindholm, but I don't remember it clicking.

 

So, here's my crazy suggestion for using Pelletier:

1) Pelletier-Lindholm-Toffoli

2) Huberdeau-Kadri-Dube

3) Mange-Backs-Coleman

4) Lucic-Ruzicka-Duehr

 

1) Pelletier has always been more of a setup guy, and he has two targets.  He won't play much if at all on the PP, so his minutes won't be extreme.

2) Dube can take draws when Kadri has a rough night.  I think this could be a dominant line.  

3) Stable line, maybe doesn't score as much as last year but you can trust them not to be scored on.

4) Duehr and Ruzicka add some speed, Lucic can get them the puck.  Duehr isn't having a great year, but he is rugged and can skate.  IIRC, he has better hands than Lewis.

I would be down for those lines. To me Pelltier is the perfect compliment to players with skill. As you mentioned his hockey IQ is high, and he is able to adapt to his teammates, I remember seeing that first hand when he played for team Canada running shotgun with Cozens I believe. He is also never going to be the guy to drive play, and that needs to be remembered. But I like your lineup suggestions.

[cross16]

If it were me I’d put Pelletier right in Lucic spot. I get it feels like a gigantic step but the biggest strength to Pelletier game is his IQ. I think he is smart enough to find the right ice playing with Huberdeau and Kadri. 
 

wont happen but I wouldn’t hesitate to try it. 

[travel_dude]

Zero change to lineup tonight.

As if that was ever in question.

Call up players to pay them to eat popcorn.

[cross16]

Took in the Wranglers game yesterday. I get Sutter hasn't always been great this year but honestly I can see why he was reluctant to play Phillips. Phillips is brushed off the puck really easily and falls down multiple times a game due to body contact. He scored a highlight reel goal and is a fun player to watch at that level but at the same time I can see why Sutter is hesitant. Yes I still think a "try it and see what happens" would be a nice attitude for Sutter to have once in a while but I can appreciate where he is coming from. 

 

Having said that, that argument doesn't hold up with Pelletier. 

[travel_dude]

45 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Took in the Wranglers game yesterday. I get Sutter hasn't always been great this year but honestly I can see why he was reluctant to play Phillips. Phillips is brushed off the puck really easily and falls down multiple times a game due to body contact. He scored a highlight reel goal and is a fun player to watch at that level but at the same time I can see why Sutter is hesitant. Yes I still think a "try it and see what happens" would be a nice attitude for Sutter to have once in a while but I can appreciate where he is coming from. 

 

Having said that, that argument doesn't hold up with Pelletier. 

 

No doubt that Phillips would need to adjust to the size of the NHL.

In his two brief games, he played the way Dube does on the boards.

He's not going to win battles that way in the NHL.

Even when he went to the net, he was getting buried before he could get a touch.

 

Just one player though.

I get that Sutter looks at every game as must win.

The devil you know with the current roster.

Lucic only was scratched after more than a month of poor play.

And even with lax play by him in several games, he's still top 6.

I won't go on about that, since the line still meshes from time to time.

 

If Pelletier and Duehr get a chance, it will be at the expense of young players.

Most like Ruzicka (somewhat justified) or Zohorna (up and down).

Pelletier will get a game in the top 9 and Duehr on the 4th line.

Unless an immediate spark is seen, he will get 8 minutes.

I suspect there is still some bias to how a player was in camp.

 

Zohorna is coming up on 9 games and will hit the max for recall without needing waivers to sent down.  I think Sutter like his size and may hang onto him longer term.  He has a few skills.  Not sure long term.  Sutter is using him at C.  

[Heartbreaker]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Took in the Wranglers game yesterday. I get Sutter hasn't always been great this year but honestly I can see why he was reluctant to play Phillips. Phillips is brushed off the puck really easily and falls down multiple times a game due to body contact. He scored a highlight reel goal and is a fun player to watch at that level but at the same time I can see why Sutter is hesitant. Yes I still think a "try it and see what happens" would be a nice attitude for Sutter to have once in a while but I can appreciate where he is coming from. 

 

Having said that, that argument doesn't hold up with Pelletier. 

 

Yeah, maybe. I've been meaning to check out a Wranglers game, but I do watch them practice almost every week because I find myself at WinSport.

 

I was really upset about the Phillips thing, and you may be right - but there were plenty of opportunities to put him in. If it were up to me, I'd have put him in for Columbus, and San Jose without any hesitation. I would have liked to have seen him get pushed off the puck for around 10 games. I know that's a lot when you're 500 at best, and the expectations are that you're going to go on a long playoff run, or your season is a failure.

 

I get that the bump in pay is really nice, and I hope that the next time I pull in to the parking lot at WinSport I see a new sweet ride in the lot for number 11/41, but short of grow six inches, and put on another 40 pounds, I don't know what is left for Matthew Phillips to do. He has risen to the occasion at every level. He's a local kid, and grew up with a dream to play for the Flames.

 

I totally grant that Darryl Sutter may be right (he is paid a lot of money to coach the Flames, and I was paid very little money to coach the A3 U13 North Shore Storm), but Jeez Louise, this is bad messaging. There's a good chance that Matthew Phillips leaves after this season, and goes on to have a great career in Europe, and a very small chance that he goes to on to have a hall-of-fame career with the Tampa Bay Lightning - but Christ, set him up to succeed, and give him a legitimate opportunity to fail. It's hard to "force anyone's hand" in 18 minutes of ice time.

 

Love.

[sak22]

16 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

I totally grant that Darryl Sutter may be right (he is paid a lot of money to coach the Flames, and I was paid very little money to coach the A3 U13 North Shore Storm), but Jeez Louise, this is bad messaging. There's a good chance that Matthew Phillips leaves after this season, and goes on to have a great career in Europe, and a very small chance that he goes to on to have a hall-of-fame career with the Tampa Bay Lightning - but Christ, set him up to succeed, and give him a legitimate opportunity to fail. It's hard to "force anyone's hand" in 18 minutes of ice time.

 

Love.

What's to say he isn't the next Keith Aucoin or Darren Haydar.  I think as a fanbase we are so far removed from having a top AHL scorer that we forget that some never get past that level.

[Heartbreaker]

18 minutes ago, sak22 said:

What's to say he isn't the next Keith Aucoin or Darren Haydar.  I think as a fanbase we are so far removed from having a top AHL scorer that we forget that some never get past that level.

 

No, Sir, I think that he could be exactly that, but we'll never know unless we play him. Keith Aucoin played in 145 NHL games, and Darren Haydar played in 23. Matthew Phillips hasn't played 23 minutes at the NHL level this season, and has 32 minutes in total.

 

Love.

[sak22]

50 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

No, Sir, I think that he could be exactly that, but we'll never know unless we play him. Keith Aucoin played in 145 NHL games, and Darren Haydar played in 23. Matthew Phillips hasn't played 23 minutes at the NHL level this season, and has 32 minutes in total.

 

Love.

Well in Aucoins case he didn't get in a game until his late 20's and Haydar's 23 games were with 3 different organizations.  I do agree that you never know based on 2 games, the reality is that the only way a regular leaves is through injury or horrendous play.  Huberdeau missed a couple games Ruzicka was next up, played well and replaced Rooney, outside of those 2 games and one that Lindholm missed due to illness and the entire top 9 has been relatively healthy this year, and add in last year where the top 6 was healthy all year.  There the argument about Lucic which has become a deadhorse argument, but outside of that who else goes, people don't like Lewis but I think he's been very good this year, Zoho is pretty meh.  Mange and Huberdeau haven't lived up to expectations, but there aren't many coaches in the league who would be sitting them (maybe Torts but that is it).