2022 Offseason

[The_People1]

Flames don't really need Lucic anymore now that Gaudreau is gone.  pre-Lucic, Gaudreau would get slashed in the hands all the time.  And early in Gaudreau's career, we had McGratton for protection.  An enforcer was protection when your superstar is a little guy.  So, it's not really necessary anymore.

 

 

[sak22]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Flames don't really need Lucic anymore now that Gaudreau is gone.  pre-Lucic, Gaudreau would get slashed in the hands all the time.  And early in Gaudreau's career, we had McGratton for protection.  An enforcer was protection when your superstar is a little guy.  So, it's not really necessary anymore.

 

 

Lucic was on the team for:

and this:

 

and this

 

and this

 

and this:

 

But a few less slashes on the hand I guess.

[The_People1]

34 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Lucic was on the team for:

and this:

 

and this

 

and this

 

and this:

 

But a few less slashes on the hand I guess.

 

All hockey hits though... except the Wilson one at the end which was at the end of the game and nothing could be done.  No cheapshots there.

[cross16]

I mean let's call a spade a spade here. Lucic is on the team because it was the only way the Flames were going to get out of the disaster James Neal contract and isn't going to go anywhere because of his contract. 

 

It's turned into a small positive for the Flames but it's not like he is here by their choice. 

[sak22]

15 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

All hockey hits though... except the Wilson one at the end which was at the end of the game and nothing could be done.  No cheapshots there.

All worthy of doing as much damage as a slash.  I just don't buy the idea that Gaudreau had it easier when Lucic was on the team, we make a big deal of Eric Staal breaking his hand years ago, but that team had Ferland, Brouwer and Engelland who could all beat the crap out of Staal and none of them did.

[420since1974]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

I mean let's call a spade a spade here. Lucic is on the team because it was the only way the Flames were going to get out of the disaster James Neal contract and isn't going to go anywhere because of his contract. 

 

It's turned into a small positive for the Flames but it's not like he is here by their choice. 

The bottom line is that the trade saved the Flames owners $10M.

I don't think that there were any other considerations.

[The_People1]

12 hours ago, sak22 said:

All worthy of doing as much damage as a slash.  I just don't buy the idea that Gaudreau had it easier when Lucic was on the team, we make a big deal of Eric Staal breaking his hand years ago, but that team had Ferland, Brouwer and Engelland who could all beat the crap out of Staal and none of them did.

 

Ferland, Brouwer, and Engellend doesn't have the Lucic factor though.  Lucic is a class of his own.  Can't stop the clean hits because you want the other team to play clean.  As long as the cheapshots go down then Lucic served his purpose.

 

Gaudreau cited Gudbranson during the CBJ intro to the media.  Mentioned Gudbranson stands up for his teammates and stuff.  This stuff is psychological.  Gaudreau feels more confident out there with protection.

[The_People1]

12 hours ago, cross16 said:

I mean let's call a spade a spade here. Lucic is on the team because it was the only way the Flames were going to get out of the disaster James Neal contract and isn't going to go anywhere because of his contract. 

 

It's turned into a small positive for the Flames but it's not like he is here by their choice. 

 

Yes that's fair.  We also don't need to spend $5-mil for "protection".  No team can afford that in the cap era but we turned a small positive from the Neal trade.

[conundrumed]

I had no idea where to put this, so I guess it's here.

Tkachuk interview on the Missin' Curfew podcast with the alleged toxic twins.

Good interview though. Worth the 21 minutes. Take away from it what you may.lol

The interview begins at 28:25.

 

[phoenix66]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes that's fair.  We also don't need to spend $5-mil for "protection".  No team can afford that in the cap era but we turned a small positive from the Neal trade.

And not saying for a second that hes worth his contract, but I'd say he's filled more of a role than that. He's been nearly a perfect 4th liner . 

[phoenix66]

41 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I had no idea where to put this, so I guess it's here.

Tkachuk interview on the Missin' Curfew podcast with the alleged toxic twins.

Good interview though. Worth the 21 minutes. Take away from it what you may.lol

The interview begins at 28:25.

 

I'll be honest..I've moved on from both of em..

Wish em both the best, no animosity. But they chose to move on and I only want players here that want to be here ..

[conundrumed]

5 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I'll be honest..I've moved on from both of em..

Wish em both the best, no animosity. But they chose to move on and I only want players here that want to be here ..

Your loss. There are some really good insights in that interview.

[phoenix66]

24 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Your loss. There are some really good insights in that interview.

Oh 100% ..I did see it..  I have nothing but respect for the kid .. I believe he had a true love for the city .I truly and honestly hope he takes Florida by storm  But just like the most amicable breakups, he's not a flame anymore and that was his choice .

I still personally think he felt like an outsider here ..and maybe thats on his teammates .. but he still moved on..  I'll say he did it with class and professionalism though.. 

I read somewhere he even reached out to Weegar and huberdeau to tell them how much they are gonna love Calgary 

[phoenix66]

So this time next week we'll know Mangiapane's fate..  his agent says they submitted a long term offer but I'm thinking it's too high or they wouid have signed it by now ..  my guess is he's looking for about 8.

I think they'll get it done , but if they don't and he ends up on a one year deal .I suspect he's the next one out of town 

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Oh 100% ..I did see it..  I have nothing but respect for the kid .. I believe he had a true love for the city .I truly and honestly hope he takes Florida by storm  But just like the most amicable breakups, he's not a flame anymore and that was his choice .

I still personally think he felt like an outsider here ..and maybe thats on his teammates .. but he still moved on..  I'll say he did it with class and professionalism though.. 

The overtones of nightlife and all-season golf made me a bit nervous for him. Lots of distractions that I hope that he doesn't get caught up in. Interesting he'll be back in Calgary for parts of summer.

[Thebrewcrew]

17 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Oh 100% ..I did see it..  I have nothing but respect for the kid .. I believe he had a true love for the city .I truly and honestly hope he takes Florida by storm  But just like the most amicable breakups, he's not a flame anymore and that was his choice .

I still personally think he felt like an outsider here ..and maybe thats on his teammates .. but he still moved on..  I'll say he did it with class and professionalism though.. 

He definitely did it the right way and I think that's a credit to the way he was brought up. Being around the NHL his entire life.

 

It sucks he didn't want to stay but he put the Flames in a position where they could get a significant return. He could have just went to arb and got the 1yr deal and forced the Flames to sell low. He didn't and credit to him.

 

And ultimately as a result, I don't think he will be hearing any boo's when he returns to the Dome. On the other hand, Johnny might...

[phoenix66]

Just now, conundrumed said:

The overtones of nightlife and all-season golf made me a bit nervous for him. Lots of distractions that I hope that he doesn't get caught up in. Interesting he'll be back in Calgary for parts of summer.

That's another piece that caught my attention and contributed to my theory.. he's a single guy on a team of family guys . What does Calgary have for night life ?  Back alley?  It can be a pretty lonely place for a single guy without buddies to hang with .. 

[phoenix66]

7 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

He definitely did it the right way and I think that's a credit to the way he was brought up. Being around the NHL his entire life.

 

It sucks he didn't want to stay but he put the Flames in a position where they could get a significant return. He could have just went to arb and got the 1yr deal and forced the Flames to sell low. He didn't and credit to him.

 

And ultimately as a result, I don't think he will be hearing any boo's when he returns to the Dome. On the other hand, Johnny might...

Ya.. I can see that..   I can say I honestly say I believe he was sincere .. but fact remains he handcuffed us and hung us out to dry at the last second .. he'll hear both sides that night.. 

 

 

This is also the reason why we need to be very careful how we handle Monahan.. can't buy him out injured anyway.. but we got 2 guys coming in who just got blindsided by their team.. were supposed to be different .. might not work in our favor if we're trying to sign then and they see us shipping out a guy with the trash who bleeds for this team and has been the ultimate professional .. cap says we may have to , but I just hope it's done In a good way 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

The overtones of nightlife and all-season golf made me a bit nervous for him. Lots of distractions that I hope that he doesn't get caught up in. Interesting he'll be back in Calgary for parts of summer.

 

I am sure he would like to go to a place that has people that don't actually follow hockey.  Puck bunnies may be okay for a distraction, but they would be expecting magic.  Stick between the legs, the Michagan, etc.  LOL.  

 

As far as competition in FLA, he faces a different type of BOA.  Can't just look for a Kassian type of villian.  

 

[Thebrewcrew]

What does Mangiapane's deal look like?

 

I'm thinking it ends up in the 5-6 range. Depending on term. I'd be fine with 6x6.

 

It's time to commit to him. The Flames have used their leverage on him the past two negotiations and it's been over thousands of dollars. If this goes to arb, he's walking in a year

[travel_dude]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes that's fair.  We also don't need to spend $5-mil for "protection".  No team can afford that in the cap era but we turned a small positive from the Neal trade.

 

He was, for a time, a scoring 3rd/4th liner.  And a decent guy for forechecking.  His 2nd round exposed the holes that show it's time to move on.  He may or may not want to retire.  We might be able to find a team that's willing to pay him $1M to patrol the ice.  If not, they Sutter needs to evaluate his use on the ice and see if he helps or hinders.  

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

What does Mangiapane's deal look like?

 

I'm thinking it ends up in the 5-6 range. Depending on term. I'd be fine with 6x6.

 

It's time to commit to him. The Flames have used their leverage on him the past two negotiations and it's been over thousands of dollars. If this goes to arb, he's walking in a year

 

We never seem to know what is happening in negotiations from the current group.  Mangiapane had nothing to do with Gaudreau and nothing to do with Tkachuk.  I don't care that you have to know what the numbers are; they mean nothing to the agent of Mange or the player themselves.  

 

We should be looking to lock the player up.  6 years is fine, but we fell for that already.  That's something you do with a 29 year old, not a younger guy.  In 6 years the cap and comp salaries will mean you have to fork out bigger money then.  UNless you think he will be trending down, you want to lock it up.  Show the guys on the team you value a player.  If it's 8x$6M then get it done.  Consider next year's cap but one thing at a time.

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ferland, Brouwer, and Engellend doesn't have the Lucic factor though.  Lucic is a class of his own.  Can't stop the clean hits because you want the other team to play clean.  As long as the cheapshots go down then Lucic served his purpose.

 

Gaudreau cited Gudbranson during the CBJ intro to the media.  Mentioned Gudbranson stands up for his teammates and stuff.  This stuff is psychological.  Gaudreau feels more confident out there with protection.

i agree with you. It's funny how we have these debates on what size does for players. We see what it does last year and then it's not a thing again. 
 

i actually think we lose a lot more by losing Gudbranson than having Lucic. Lucic was in heads, but Gudbranson took other guy's heads off, especially in front of the net. Glad we were able to keep Zadorov because we need that meanness in front of our own net. 
 

i feel the teams invested when you see how they clear the net. When we don't do that we know they don't care. I get you don't want to take penalties, but anytime a Flame gets near an opposing goalie we know about it because they're on their backs or have gloves in the face. That was my biggest takeaway from last year. I hope it stays this year. 

 

i think that mentality went into how we defended the blue line and the zone too.

 

hate the other team! 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

What does Mangiapane's deal look like?

 

I'm thinking it ends up in the 5-6 range. Depending on term. I'd be fine with 6x6.

 

It's time to commit to him. The Flames have used their leverage on him the past two negotiations and it's been over thousands of dollars. If this goes to arb, he's walking in a year

 

it sounds to me like BT plays heavy hardball and our stars don't like it. I think it's maybe just a minuscule reason for losing Johnny. 
 

i think BT gets too much credit for the deals he signs. But to me, Lindholm came in as a second line RW maybe C who got paid as one at the time. The same goes for Hanifin. They're great deals, but at the time they were fair for what players they were coming into the organization. 
 

he left a sour taste in Gaudreau's mouth after the first extension when it took most of the summer, and you could see it in Johnny's game that year. He didn't look like he wanted to be on the ice after that. Maybe it was something else but he didn't look the same. 
 

then Tkachuk gets his deal and it looked like Johnny was raising his eyebrow to it like WTF is this? It's probably what Johnny should have gotten the first time around. Then BT lowballs Johnny again when they almost last summer. Didn't feel right, and then again drawing the whole thing out to the deadline.

 

BT should just pay Mangiapane. He's done everything the organization has asked of him. He's left money on the table in the past, like you said. When you say thousands I think you meant at least 500K per year. 
 

i don't know what he's worth. Is it still $1M/10 points scored? 
 

maybe that's the ratio to go at? 
 

5.5m/yr or buy some years and go 6m/yr over 8?
 

di we expect him to maintain his output?

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

hen Tkachuk gets his deal and it looked like Johnny was raising his eyebrow to it like WTF is this? It's probably what Johnny should have gotten the first time around. Then BT lowballs Johnny again when they almost last summer. Didn't feel right, and then again drawing the whole thing out to the deadline.

 

So, Tkachuk was the one that steered the ship to keep his options open.  Johnny signed to play hockey.  Tkachuk signed to keep his leverage high.  Different families.  We really only have speculation on the offer last summer.  JG was thinking about signing, but was he convinced?  The chance to pick your team had to be in the back of his mind.  As soon as he said he wasn't negotiating during the season, BT should have given up on him.  To me that's the biggest fail.  Sure we can say that he didn't do the right things to bring the cup, but not having a deal and letting it go to summer was the fail.

 

By that I mean we have to trade him.  TDL, 3 months before, whatever.  We weren't in the best circumstances for the entire year.  JG was still worth a lot in December January.  Hindsight, but he read the signs the way he wanted them to look.