2022 Offseason

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

5 hours ago, LouCifer said:

👀👀👀

 

Ken Wiebe also saying that Stastny could be waiting on COL.  If Kadri doesn’t return, Stastny may be looking to sign with the Avs. 
 

@flames-fan-in-jets-land, is Ken Wiebe a legitimate source for Jets news and would he have access to such information? 

Ya he's the one that keeps tabs on the Jets for SN. He's alot more trustworthy and believable than what Francis is for the Flames. He's pretty reigned in when it comes to sensationalism.

[JTech780]

What about Valimaki for Kravtsov?

 

Both players need fresh start. The Rangers could use some defense and we could use a skilled forward. Both players are waiver eligible next year.

[MP5029]

6 hours ago, JTech780 said:

What about Valimaki for Kravtsov?

 

Both players need fresh start. The Rangers could use some defense and we could use a skilled forward. Both players are waiver eligible next year.

One poor attitude for another? 
 

id pass myself but I definitely see where your coming from…

 

Also, I’m not sure but I think Kravtsov is more of a scoring winger, we need a playmaker type…

[tmac70]

So long shot and I would rather Kadri however, word has it Patrick Kane and Toews are not on board with a rebuild. I would love P Kane for a year with 25% retained. Kane was 90 + points on a crap roster but there is your top line RW.     Huberdeau Lindholm P. Kane. Would have to  be one of the best lines in hockey next season. Kane and Huberdeau combined for 207 points pretty similar to what Chucky and Johnny did. CHI is on a fire sale righ now, so what would the cost be? Debrincat returned 2 firsts ( 7th overall, 39th 2022, and a 3rd in 2023)  OTT controls him for two more years. WIth Kane it would be 1 year. A first would defenitly have to go the other way , they get that at TD and we need to move 8 Million the other way to make it work.  Monahan, Kylington FLA first in 2023 and a B prospect work? 

[JTech780]

14 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

One poor attitude for another? 
 

id pass myself but I definitely see where your coming from…

 

Also, I’m not sure but I think Kravtsov is more of a scoring winger, we need a playmaker type…

I am not sure I see attitude issues with either player.

 

We need offense period. He also has good size.

[LouCifer]

I keep going back to Vegas… they’ve got 16/23 players signed and they’re over the cap. Something has to give there. 
 

I know some of you have mentioned Nicholas Roy, 6’4” C/RW. He’s an RFA with arb rights right now so he’s not even counting against their cap (yet). Does anyone have a read on Roy and if he’d be a good 2C for us? 
 

This is just a shot in the dark hunch - and categorize this as “no one saw Huberdeau being available” - I can see Yzerman targeting and acquiring Marchessault from VGK. Only 2 years left @ $5.5M. It would help VGK’s cap. 

[JTech780]

2 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I keep going back to Vegas… they’ve got 16/23 players signed and they’re over the cap. Something has to give there. 
 

I know some of you have mentioned Nicholas Roy, 6’4” C/RW. He’s an RFA with arb rights right now so he’s not even counting against their cap (yet). Does anyone have a read on Roy and if he’d be a good 2C for us? 
 

This is just a shot in the dark hunch - and categorize this as “no one saw Huberdeau being available” - I can see Yzerman targeting and acquiring Marchessault from VGK. Only 2 years left @ $5.5M. It would help VGK’s cap. 

Yeah I wouldn’t mind targeting Roy.

 

Vegas also has Weber’s $7.8m in LTIR so they do have a bit of room.

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, JTech780 said:

See last year it felt like we played the whole season missing a top 4 defenseman and now we finally have a solid top 4. I am not in a hurry to trade away from that top 4. I am more interested in trading one of our depth defense, Kylington, Valimaki, Mackey.

 

It's a tough call.  The last two guys listed are fringe by Sutter standards, even if he referred to Mackey as near ready.  But the biggest reason that Weeger was brought in was that we lacked a 2nd top 2D.  There must be a belief that Hanifin is at best a 3/4.  That puts him up against Kylington, who easily was one of our top D.  

 

 

I hate to give up on a potential top 4 long haul player like Kylington.  Haven't seen more than one full season.  Hanifin has been quite productive with Ras, but would he drop considerably with Tanev?

 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I keep going back to Vegas… they’ve got 16/23 players signed and they’re over the cap. Something has to give there. 
 

I know some of you have mentioned Nicholas Roy, 6’4” C/RW. He’s an RFA with arb rights right now so he’s not even counting against their cap (yet). Does anyone have a read on Roy and if he’d be a good 2C for us? 
 

This is just a shot in the dark hunch - and categorize this as “no one saw Huberdeau being available” - I can see Yzerman targeting and acquiring Marchessault from VGK. Only 2 years left @ $5.5M. It would help VGK’s cap. 

 

If we could get him for an excess prospect, I think it's a win.  A pick is tough to give up this coming year.  Perhaps a B prospect and a 2024 pick.  Patches went for future considerations.

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

So long shot and I would rather Kadri however, word has it Patrick Kane and Toews are not on board with a rebuild. I would love P Kane for a year with 25% retained. Kane was 90 + points on a crap roster but there is your top line RW.     Huberdeau Lindholm P. Kane. Would have to  be one of the best lines in hockey next season. Kane and Huberdeau combined for 207 points pretty similar to what Chucky and Johnny did. CHI is on a fire sale righ now, so what would the cost be? Debrincat returned 2 firsts ( 7th overall, 39th 2022, and a 3rd in 2023)  OTT controls him for two more years. WIth Kane it would be 1 year. A first would defenitly have to go the other way , they get that at TD and we need to move 8 Million the other way to make it work.  Monahan, Kylington FLA first in 2023 and a B prospect work? 

I love the idea of Kane. I’ve mentioned it before. Some here are concerned about his character - which is warranted. But I don’t put Patty in the same boat as Evander. Side note, it would be hilarious to hear the broadcasters going back and forth about Kane on both sides of the battle of Alberta. “Which Kane is better?” Would be an amazing theme lol. 
 

Back to the trade, however. We all know that Kane likely walks at the end of this season. So any trade package has to keep that in mind. Mony also has to go the other way for cap reasons and I’ve noted before that I can see CHI being very interested in Mony (for the purposes of flipping another asset at the TDL).  Chicago would definitely want a pick too. 
 

Given the above, and add in that this year could really be BT’s and Sutter’s last, I can see us wanting Kane to try to pull in a cup. For 1 season of Patty Kane, I’d be willing to do Mony + Valimaki + Dennis Gilbert or B prospect. Valimaki takes the place of a 1st round pick and Chicago needs D. Mony can be flipped at the deadline and can replace Toews (as he’s recently said he doesn’t want to be part of a rebuild). It doesn’t sound like enough to me tho, but again, it’s 1 season of Kane and I’m not willing to give up our first in 2023 for that alone. 
 

Or, we can go absolutely nuts and offer the following:

To CGY:

Kane + Toews (@ 50%) = $15M cap

 

To CHI:

Mony + Lucic + Valimaki + Dennis Gilbert (who was coincidentally drafted by CHI) + 1st in 2023 *or* 1st in 2025 (FLA) 

 

Probably not enough for CHI but I’ve read online that CHI will have difficulty getting higher than a 2nd rounder for Toews and they would likely have to retain salary to even get that. Kane I can see getting a 1st and a prospect at least at the TDL if they’re willing to eat salary. If we’re going for a cup, we hope our 1st in 2023 is closer to a 2nd round pick. 
 

Yes, there’s 2 “cap dumps” here in my offer to CHI, but here’s why they’re somewhat valuable: 
- The cap floor is $61M next season. Losing Kane and Toews straight out brings Chicago to $51M. Mony and Lucic’s salary get them to the floor. 
- Retaining $5M (or more) allows CHI to flip Mony and Lucic at the TDL for expiring contracts and remain cap compliant for the floor. 
- CHI is tanking hard for Bedard. Mony can fill Toews position at C and it’ll actually give him an opportunity to showcase himself in his final year of his contract 

- Looch could be an attractive add for teams looking to add snarl for the playoffs. 
- Valimaki + Dennis Gilbert + 1st in 2023 is essentially 2 x 1st rounders + an additional D which we have too many of and CHI needs.
- Moving Toews and Kane together may sway them to accept a trade to CGY. 
 

🤔

[travel_dude]

I think Lucic by himself is an incredible value.  He's got $1M remaining to be paid him.  He easily one of the more impactful $1M players available.  Cap mirage for teams need to hit the floor.  Doesn't have to bring back anything to really make this a win.  We lose the toughness, but if needed we could bring in Klapka to start up things.  Asking Lucic to do it in his final year seems selfish.  

 

Monahan for sure needs a new lease on life.  We have given him everything we can and his best bud finally left.  He would be an ideal mentor and 3C on a lesser team.  Buffalo, Arizona and Anaheim come to mind.

 

Immediately, it seems like we have a wealth of cap space.  Well, we can do what we want in the off-season or hold off and take some cap from teams wanting to rid cap.  Or use the cap at TDL.  Losing two players hits out depth, but replacing them with real depth players moves us forward.

 

Saying all that, Monahan could be a TDL deal for a team.  We build him back up.  Lucic has to be traded in that case.  He kills Monahan's offense.

[LouCifer]

Alternatively to my rambling above, and probably a better move, target Barzal and offer NYI Mony + Valimaki + 1st in 2023. Pending of course we are allowed to speak to Barzal first and arrange an extension. 
 

Then target Kane at the TDL. 

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

Alternatively to my rambling above, and probably a better move, target Barzal and offer NYI Mony + Valimaki + 1st in 2023. Pending of course we are allowed to speak to Barzal first and arrange an extension. 
 

Then target Kane at the TDL. 

 

Those two players are likely to move for sure, but I don't think a 1st rounder does the trick.

Barzal is a decent enough target, but we get hung up in the usual RFA issues with QO.

And long term we have big re-signings ahead.

 

We can look at lesser targets that do the same thing.

Valimaki + for Dvorak.

Future considerations for Roy.

Monahan for a 2nd.

 

All we really need is a C to play a 3C or 2C role here.

We have excess D and not enough impact C.

Should be looking to trade at least Valimaki and Mackey or Kylington or Hanifin.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

I think Lucic by himself is an incredible value.  He's got $1M remaining to be paid him.  He easily one of the more impactful $1M players available.  Cap mirage for teams need to hit the floor.  Doesn't have to bring back anything to really make this a win.  We lose the toughness, but if needed we could bring in Klapka to start up things.  Asking Lucic to do it in his final year seems selfish.  

 

Monahan for sure needs a new lease on life.  We have given him everything we can and his best bud finally left.  He would be an ideal mentor and 3C on a lesser team.  Buffalo, Arizona and Anaheim come to mind.

 

Immediately, it seems like we have a wealth of cap space.  Well, we can do what we want in the off-season or hold off and take some cap from teams wanting to rid cap.  Or use the cap at TDL.  Losing two players hits out depth, but replacing them with real depth players moves us forward.

 

Saying all that, Monahan could be a TDL deal for a team.  We build him back up.  Lucic has to be traded in that case.  He kills Monahan's offense.

 

They really don't. I think realistically it's about 11 min in cap room right now with Mang going to take at least half of that. Kyliington would take a bulk of the rest if they get him signed. There is flexibility but not a ton of space. 

 

Sure if you can move Monahan and/or Lucic but i'm skeptical. Anahaim is really the only team under the cap floor so maybe they are interested but also kind of feels like a deal that would have been done already if there was something there. I don't think you can move Monahan without a sweetener. 

 

You lose Monahan/Lucic next offseason but a bulk of that money you sure hope will go to Huberdeau and Weegar. Lindholm is then UFA the next offseason and probably should be extended next summer. 

 

They've got flexibility but not as much as you think. 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

They really don't. I think realistically it's about 11 min in cap room right now with Mang going to take at least half of that. Kyliington would take a bulk of the rest if they get him signed. There is flexibility but not a ton of space. 

 

Sure if you can move Monahan and/or Lucic but i'm skeptical. Anahaim is really the only team under the cap floor so maybe they are interested but also kind of feels like a deal that would have been done already if there was something there. I don't think you can move Monahan without a sweetener. 

 

You lose Monahan/Lucic next offseason but a bulk of that money you sure hope will go to Huberdeau and Weegar. Lindholm is then UFA the next offseason and probably should be extended next summer. 

 

They've got flexibility but not as much as you think. 

 

I think you misunderstood.  When I said a wealth of cap, I was referring to if and when we traded Lucic and Monahan.  That doesn't happen and we obviously don't have near as much.

 

Buffalo and Anaheim both currently under.  Buffalo has Bishop waiting to go on LTIR.  ARI has Brian Little. Some other teams might have some interest in Monagan.  Who knows.  It's not quite the same as trading 2 years of his contract like last summer.

 

I am not really suggesting we take on long term cap dumps either.  One ending this year is ideal and might help a cap strapped team sign a player.  At the same time, we can't really be paying a premium to get rid of anyone.  So, Monahan and Lucic have to be moved only if it is a positive trade.

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think you misunderstood.  When I said a wealth of cap, I was referring to if and when we traded Lucic and Monahan.  That doesn't happen and we obviously don't have near as much.

 

Buffalo and Anaheim both currently under.  Buffalo has Bishop waiting to go on LTIR.  ARI has Brian Little. Some other teams might have some interest in Monagan.  Who knows.  It's not quite the same as trading 2 years of his contract like last summer.

 

I am not really suggesting we take on long term cap dumps either.  One ending this year is ideal and might help a cap strapped team sign a player.  At the same time, we can't really be paying a premium to get rid of anyone.  So, Monahan and Lucic have to be moved only if it is a positive trade.

 

You only put a player on LTIR if you need his cap space. If you don't, he'll stay on IR and count against the cap so Buffalo and Arizona would not appear to me to be in the market for Lucic unless you gave them something. Arizona also has to sign Hayton and Crouse. 

 

Perhaps i'm wrong and they can I'm just really skeptical. Like I said I could see Lucic more than Monahan but I also don't think the Flames are going to be in a rush to move Lucic now.

 

 

[The_People1]

I feel Monahan needs to play in order for there to be any interest from other teams.  He's damaged goods right now and too much risk for any team acquiring him.  He didn't look good prior to his injury as well so off season surgery compounds the lack of trade value/interest.

[sak22]

I don't really have the appetite to trade either Monahan or Lucic now.  Unless we are getting Kadri, I don't see the need to pay to get rid of 2 guys on expiring deals, I would instead look into a move of one of the waiver eligible Dmen either Valimaki, Mackey or Kylington and get whatever you can for picks.  At this point I would rather let the kids battle out for a spot in the lineup and hope that Monahan has a better recovery this year and has the same contract year motivation that Gaudreau and Tkachuk had. 

[tmac70]

2 hours ago, LouCifer said:

I love the idea of Kane. I’ve mentioned it before. Some here are concerned about his character - which is warranted. But I don’t put Patty in the same boat as Evander. Side note, it would be hilarious to hear the broadcasters going back and forth about Kane on both sides of the battle of Alberta. “Which Kane is better?” Would be an amazing theme lol. 
 

Back to the trade, however. We all know that Kane likely walks at the end of this season. So any trade package has to keep that in mind. Mony also has to go the other way for cap reasons and I’ve noted before that I can see CHI being very interested in Mony (for the purposes of flipping another asset at the TDL).  Chicago would definitely want a pick too. 
 

Given the above, and add in that this year could really be BT’s and Sutter’s last, I can see us wanting Kane to try to pull in a cup. For 1 season of Patty Kane, I’d be willing to do Mony + Valimaki + Dennis Gilbert or B prospect. Valimaki takes the place of a 1st round pick and Chicago needs D. Mony can be flipped at the deadline and can replace Toews (as he’s recently said he doesn’t want to be part of a rebuild). It doesn’t sound like enough to me tho, but again, it’s 1 season of Kane and I’m not willing to give up our first in 2023 for that alone. 
 

Or, we can go absolutely nuts and offer the following:

To CGY:

Kane + Toews (@ 50%) = $15M cap

 

To CHI:

Mony + Lucic + Valimaki + Dennis Gilbert (who was coincidentally drafted by CHI) + 1st in 2023 *or* 1st in 2025 (FLA) 

 

Probably not enough for CHI but I’ve read online that CHI will have difficulty getting higher than a 2nd rounder for Toews and they would likely have to retain salary to even get that. Kane I can see getting a 1st and a prospect at least at the TDL if they’re willing to eat salary. If we’re going for a cup, we hope our 1st in 2023 is closer to a 2nd round pick. 
 

Yes, there’s 2 “cap dumps” here in my offer to CHI, but here’s why they’re somewhat valuable: 
- The cap floor is $61M next season. Losing Kane and Toews straight out brings Chicago to $51M. Mony and Lucic’s salary get them to the floor. 
- Retaining $5M (or more) allows CHI to flip Mony and Lucic at the TDL for expiring contracts and remain cap compliant for the floor. 
- CHI is tanking hard for Bedard. Mony can fill Toews position at C and it’ll actually give him an opportunity to showcase himself in his final year of his contract 

- Looch could be an attractive add for teams looking to add snarl for the playoffs. 
- Valimaki + Dennis Gilbert + 1st in 2023 is essentially 2 x 1st rounders + an additional D which we have too many of and CHI needs.
- Moving Toews and Kane together may sway them to accept a trade to CGY. 
 

🤔

Well it comes down to contend or pretend IMHO. We are not in a contender spot presently. Barzel isn't going to happen unless we send a boat load. I would have no issues with Kane and Toews coming over but more so Kane. The other issue is I am confused with the reporting, Kadri wants to go to a contender but will and is looking at WSH and NYI. Correct me if I am wrong, If he did decided to come here does that not move us into a better situation than the other 2. I would think we are more along than NYI and WSH with the currect trades. 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

You only put a player on LTIR if you need his cap space. If you don't, he'll stay on IR and count against the cap so Buffalo and Arizona would not appear to me to be in the market for Lucic unless you gave them something. Arizona also has to sign Hayton and Crouse. 

 

Perhaps i'm wrong and they can I'm just really skeptical. Like I said I could see Lucic more than Monahan but I also don't think the Flames are going to be in a rush to move Lucic now.

 

 

 

Maybe I heard this or imagined it, but I though both Little and Bishop were going to retire.  

We may not need to move either Lucic or Monahan because we have barely enough.

Some decisions will be made about the D, which could lessen the need as well.

I think you calculated the 11M based on carrying 7D, not 10.

Not dire, but not ideal.

If we can get cap savings today and replace with productive players, then so be it.

 

Yeah, I'm in no big hurry to spend next year's cap.

If we had a replacement for Backlund, perhaps we could trade him before he's a UFA.

He's still an important player for us today and we have him signed to 35.

 

Anyway, that's for future discussions.

 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I don't really have the appetite to trade either Monahan or Lucic now.  Unless we are getting Kadri, I don't see the need to pay to get rid of 2 guys on expiring deals, I would instead look into a move of one of the waiver eligible Dmen either Valimaki, Mackey or Kylington and get whatever you can for picks.  At this point I would rather let the kids battle out for a spot in the lineup and hope that Monahan has a better recovery this year and has the same contract year motivation that Gaudreau and Tkachuk had. 

 

It comes down to what you ice and expect those player are able to do.  Lucic was not that useful in the playoffs.  Monahan was a 4th liner and not really helping much.  We would like to be better than last year, and to get there were can';t be just carrying guys.

[sak22]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It comes down to what you ice and expect those player are able to do.  Lucic was not that useful in the playoffs.  Monahan was a 4th liner and not really helping much.  We would like to be better than last year, and to get there were can';t be just carrying guys.

Monahan was late to camp and probably was rushed, I don't know how his offseason is going but I'd assume better as he was shut down earlier this time.  Lucic is what he is a 4th liner, but if he is that big of a liability there is a pressbox, teams aren't paying to get him, he would be expensive to get rid of and I'd rather save those assets to help the club either at the TDL or actually go into a draft with more than 3 picks. 

[MP5029]

13 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Monahan was late to camp and probably was rushed, I don't know how his offseason is going but I'd assume better as he was shut down earlier this time.  Lucic is what he is a 4th liner, but if he is that big of a liability there is a pressbox, teams aren't paying to get him, he would be expensive to get rid of and I'd rather save those assets to help the club either at the TDL or actually go into a draft with more than 3 picks. 

Issue with Lucic is $$$ cap hit, he’s problematic cause of his $$$ cap hit..real

dollar I believe is very low, TDL he’s a very tradable chip but if Cgy is in the playoff hunt why trade him he’s the type you do add.

 

Monahan, i Believe some

have mentioned in parts here is 1. Low value and 2. Last season it seems he did rush back…best thing to do is set him up

for success by plying him with a Hubs or a guy like hubs (trade from another team)…he then becomes problematic too cause he’s historically been very good FO and if he starts scoring again you may not want to move him as his contact at 6 mil ish for a 30+ goal scorer is a great value…if healthy and scoring but his one limit is he’s not much of a play driver which you really want a Ctr to do…but a guy like

Hubs and can pass is the ultimate line mate for him, once you manage to get that line mate why would you move Monahan?
 

Very problematic player issues hard to call but I’d rather run the gamble and acquire another top 2 RW passer and open up some Line combos that could

set Monahan for success this season

 

Hubs/Monahan/Toffoil 

 

Manji/Monahan/ ??? Necas type???

 

it also opens flexible to pair guys with Lindholm:

 

Hubs/Lindholm/Toffoil 

 

Manji/Lindholm/???Necas type???

 

we definitely needs another top 2 RW passer type to have not only a shot of being really good but also having a ton of line flexibility….Doing something like this will also help set up the bottom lines better…pending on how ready Pelletier and Ruzi are…and we all think they are…

 

Pelletier/Ruzi/Coleman or Dube or Rus

 

Coleman/Backlund/ Dube or Rus 

 

in essence we could get away with moving Lucic out of the lineup all together and play him and Lewis as needed in spare roles which could also help their effective with more rest…but parking Lucic’s cap hit is not going to go over well with management IDI 

 

[travel_dude]

44 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Monahan was late to camp and probably was rushed, I don't know how his offseason is going but I'd assume better as he was shut down earlier this time.  Lucic is what he is a 4th liner, but if he is that big of a liability there is a pressbox, teams aren't paying to get him, he would be expensive to get rid of and I'd rather save those assets to help the club either at the TDL or actually go into a draft with more than 3 picks. 

 

Lucic protects your stars.  I don't think we need him as much now.  There are teams that had to get young guys punched out to see how a liability it is not to protect them.  What did Anaheim learn?  The cap is the only thing I am concerned about now.  He's worth $1M in actual.  Many teams would see that as a decent tradeoff.  Okay, some teams would.

 

Ottawa could probably save Tkachuk's fighting.  Or having no real mean people to protect the Cat or Stutzle.

[pikey7883]

3 Trades I have been pondering.

 

Anaheim gets: Looch 2024 1st

Calgary gets: Minny 2023 3rd

Cap Dump that hurts, but almost has to be done. 

 

Vegas gets: Coronato

Calgary gets: Roy 

Vegas gets the potential and a bit of cap space. Calgary gets a big hard nosed player throws ho is starting to develop. Resigned at $3,250,000 for 3 Years.

 

Arizona gets: Dube

Calgary gets: Crouse

Arizona gets a cheap middle 6 forward, they can flip at the deadline. Good motor guy. Calgary again gets bigger and harder to play against, but if a gamble to see if his progression continues. Both players either are on the cusp or are what they are. Resigned $4,750,000 for 5 years (similar to Coleman, but cheaper).

 

Lines for me are:

Huberdeau - Lindy - Toffoli

Mang ($5.5 x 6) - Money (we almost have to try him there) - Roy (can help on offside draws)

Crouse - Backs - Coleman

Rooney - Ruzicka - Lewis

in the future I hope we can see a line of Pelltier - Ruzie - Toffoli

 

Hannifin - Anderson 

Weegar - Tanev

Big Z - Meloche

it gives us Val, Kyl, and Mackey as either depth or trade options.