2022 Offseason

[JTech780]

Between what we got from Florida and the Blues offer, it sure seems like the ask was a top 6 forward a top 4 defenseman and a pick.

 

It sure seems like they were asking for win now packages.

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

It's hard for us to speculate on the outside, but it does make some sense.

 

Could be wrong, but I believe Coleman and Gudbranson were at Monahan's wedding. They've known him for a year. Tkachuk has been on the team for 6yrs. 

Again, we don't know from the outside, but you make a good point.

 

I do think this has been building for a while though. When the rumours of him wanting a trade leaked last year, that wasn't an accident

Yep Coleman, Hanifin, Mangiapane , Johnny and Gubrandson we're all in the one pic.. may have even more ..

 

Maybe I watched Draft Day too many times and that whole " why didn't your teammates go to your birthday party" stuck in my head.. but it was kind of odd 

[Thebrewcrew]

10 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Between what we got from Florida and the Blues offer, it sure seems like the ask was a top 6 forward a top 4 defenseman and a pick.

 

It sure seems like they were asking for win now packages.

If you just look at the Pacific, I guess it makes sense.

 

Edmonton is the only team that looks like a playoff team.

 

The trade has a ton of risk, but with Huberdeau and Weegar, the Flames should compete for home ice in round one. 

[phoenix66]

17 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Between what we got from Florida and the Blues offer, it sure seems like the ask was a top 6 forward a top 4 defenseman and a pick.

 

It sure seems like they were asking for win now packages.

The others looked to include a bit of a cap dump too..

From what I read it was a top forward..a first rounder and a top prospect .  We got a top forward a top d and a B prospect ..  so ya Ufa or not that was by far the best offer 

I'm shocked st Louis wouid lowball like that .I expected Tarasenko but not as the best forward only 

[travel_dude]

29 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Just reading through Jeremy Rutherford's article on the Athletic.

 

Some takeaways

• It came down to FLA, CAR and STL
• The offer from the Blues was Tarasenko, Scandella and a "high draft pick"
• The Flames weren't interested in Tarasenko and it never got to the point where he would be asked to waive his NTC
• Necas was in the CAR offer

 

Pretty clear the Panther offer was by far the best.

 

Here's what BT said about the trade timeline...

 

"Go back to last week, and I believe it was Sunday - Saturday or Sunday - I had a conversation with Craig Oster, who is from Newport Sports and represents Matthew and had an additional call with Matthew. At that time, they informed me that Matthew did not have an appetite and would not sign with our team, with the Calgary Flames, long-term. He outlined the reasons for this. He very much enjoyed his time here, and I'll let him speak towards that, but ultimately made the decision and informed us that being a Calgary Flame long-term was not in his plans."

 

 

"At that particular time, Craig and I worked through a process over the next 24 hours to try to facilitate a trade and try to do that in an expedited fashion. We then took the step on Monday of filing for salary arbitration and (with that) process, there's been a lot of inaccurate reporting. That process really was to extend the time period for us to make a deal with Matthew. If you look back at deals with this significance over the recent past, there's been anywhere from a year to seven months to complete a transaction of manner. We tried to do something in a very short period of time. The filing allowed us to move the time period from taking his qualifier on Friday to a to a to be determined date of a salary arbitration."

 

"We then had a list of teams that Craig had provided to us through Matthew, that he would be open to at that particular time, signing a long-term contract. Obviously, I think everybody understands that the challenges of trading a player in a one-year contract. To maximize return, teams that would like to get Matthew signed to a longer term contract. We were given a limited group of teams to deal with. And in some ways, you know, Matthew, whether he chose to sign with a particular team, could have put us in a more difficult situation. For instance, if we were only allowed one team to deal with. I appreciate both Matthew and Craig's willingness to work with us."

 

"We got underway on that process on Monday, spoke with teams, worked this processes as best we possibly could. Early on in the process, when we had an opportunity or we felt we had an opportunity to look at the types of players and the impact players that we were able to to get a deal done with, which was Jonathan Huberdeau, MacKenzie Weegar, Cole Schwindt and the future pick, that became clearly a path we tried to go down there, early in the process. So that's really a synopsis of the last week."

 

 

[phoenix66]

2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

If you just look at the Pacific, I guess it makes sense.

 

Edmonton is the only team that looks like a playoff team.

 

The trade has a ton of risk, but with Huberdeau and Weegar, the Flames should compete for home ice in round one. 

Ya and I look at Edmonton..and from the team that finished the season ..did they get better ? Sure they got Campbell..who shouid consistently be better than Smith..but not any better than Smith played in the playoffs.. they resigned players like Kulak and Kane..so that's status quo.. and they lost Keith

Barring more injuries Vegas shouid be back in the game next season.. .. Vancouver maybe is one to watch only because they played much better under Boudreau but it was too late 

[Thebrewcrew]

Just now, phoenix66 said:

Ya and I look at Edmonton..and from the team that finished the season ..did they get better ? Sure they got Campbell..who shouid consistently be better than Smith..but not any better than Smith played in the playoffs.. they resigned players like Kulak and Kane..so that's status quo.. and they lost Keith

Barring more injuries Vegas shouid be back in the game next season.. .. Vancouver maybe is one to watch only because they played much better under Boudreau but it was too late 

I'm not high on Vegas. They've gotten worse, trading yet another core piece for nothing.

They'll need Eichel to be the franchise player he's been projected to be.

 

Vancouver is a tough one to project. They played great under Bruce. They're still trying to trade Miller and Horvat may walk as a UFA.

 

Seattle has quietly built a deep forward group. If they get NHL caliber goaltending, they could be a factor in the Pacific.

 

LA still relies heavily on Kopitar and Quick, now a year older.

 

It's the worst division in the league and wide open so while we as fans may disagree, you can see why the Flames want to continue having a competitive team.

[travel_dude]

54 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Ya and I look at Edmonton..and from the team that finished the season ..did they get better ? Sure they got Campbell..who shouid consistently be better than Smith..but not any better than Smith played in the playoffs.. they resigned players like Kulak and Kane..so that's status quo.. and they lost Keith

Barring more injuries Vegas shouid be back in the game next season.. .. Vancouver maybe is one to watch only because they played much better under Boudreau but it was too late 

 

The soup of two seasons.

First half, MVP for Leafs.

2nd half, lost the net a few times and was not that good in some playoff games.

And the Leafs had a really good D and some players actually played 200 foot games.

Considering that Nurse is their best D.

And they rave about Bouch but he's like a Nurse without any defensive ability.

Ceci was like Guddy was for us.

Quiet and good overall.

 

They enjoyed the new coach bump.

Sure played like crap in al lot of games they were luck to win.

They can't afford to lose Pooly and they don't want to trade him for little value.

Foegele is crap that can skate.

Yammer disappears when hitting gets rough.

Nuge is like Tkachuk with Johnny.

PP specialist that can tap in loose pucks.

No grit.

Smith has to be injured enough to go on IR or retire.

The latter saves cap but takes away LTIR.

Skinner as a backup is an unknown quantity.

Equal win/loss against mostly lesser teams.

 

Oops, should have saved this for Oilers thread.

.

[travel_dude]

Ugly rumor if Nylander for Hanifin going around.

LouCifer will LoSe it if true.

[rickross]

I think a common misconception about Tkachuk and perhaps this plays into his brand and even upped our return for him is the idea of his toughness. I think his compete level is high, he’s a pest and tough to play against in that sense. However he’s not scaring anyone out there, he’s not even a great fighter. FLA had this sense they lacked toughness after losing to Tampa in the playoffs. I think this idea that Tkachuk makes your team “tougher” was a huge sell BT dug into. Tkachuk draws penalties and aggravates players but he’s not feared like in a Lucic way. If anything he gets into trouble when he’s trying to live up to the idea of him being a tough guy 

[rickross]

Just now, travel_dude said:

Ugly rumor if Nylander for Hanifin going around.

LouCifer will LoSe it if true.

No thank you. Sutter will not play William Bystander..plus it’s so dry out here..it would damage his hair lol

[MP5029]

6 hours ago, rickross said:

No thank you. Sutter will not play William Bystander..plus it’s so dry out here..it would damage his hair lol

Lmao well

said

[MP5029]

Mmm how’s TB gonna get under the cap?

 

I Wonder if the good old Cgy boy Brayden Point could be had? He’s $$ at 9.5 per but solves the RW issue…
 

I wonder if Hanifin+  (Wouldn’t solve it but would help TB cut the cap

overage in 1/2) 
 

or Kylington + Valimaki + (would Cryptography the cap overage by a lot)

 

something has to give in TB they are way far over the cap so they are gonna need to

do Something, they can’t rely on LTIR every year, they are gonna need to move either a huge salary out….Or many smaller ones out…I think one larger one makes the most sense…Point is one of the few without a NMC/NTC clause of Any kind is

why I mentioned it.

 

in any case, it’s gonna be a low return formTB even if it’s a player like Point with a crazy high salary 

 

 

[crazyflames]

58 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Mmm how’s TB gonna get under the cap?

 

I Wonder if the good old Cgy boy Brayden Point could be had? He’s $$ at 9.5 per but solves the RW issue…
 

I wonder if Hanifin+  (Wouldn’t solve it but would help TB cut the cap

overage in 1/2) 
 

or Kylington + Valimaki + (would Cryptography the cap overage by a lot)

 

something has to give in TB they are way far over the cap so they are gonna need to

do Something, they can’t rely on LTIR every year, they are gonna need to move either a huge salary out….Or many smaller ones out…I think one larger one makes the most sense…Point is one of the few without a NMC/NTC clause of Any kind is

why I mentioned it.

 

in any case, it’s gonna be a low return formTB even if it’s a player like Point with a crazy high salary 

 

 

We can talk as much as we want about JH, but we are still not gonna win playoff round if we don’t fix the bottom 6.  We can’t rely only our top line to score.  So this off season is super important because I don’t think our lines are fixed yet.  If Monahan somehow come back half of his best games, then we maybe enough to compete in this division.   Otherwise we still need some forwards to help this group, JH is not enough to win your playoff.  

[LouCifer]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Ugly rumor if Nylander for Hanifin going around.

LouCifer will LoSe it if true.

 

😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

 

No no no to Willie Nillie

[phoenix66]

12 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

 

No no no to Willie Nillie

Used to think so...but then i saw that replay of him skating away from a puck in the corner in the playoffs...  Under Sutter he'd never be heard from again .. 

 

Tho I do thini Hanifin could definitely be bait .. if you put aside contract status.. and feel like kyllington /Tanev stays a thing.. weeger on the top pair with Anderson makes too much sense .. otherwise you move kyllington and reunite Hanifin with Tanev . 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, crazyflames said:

We can talk as much as we want about JH, but we are still not gonna win playoff round if we don’t fix the bottom 6.  We can’t rely only our top line to score.  So this off season is super important because I don’t think our lines are fixed yet.  If Monahan somehow come back half of his best games, then we maybe enough to compete in this division.   Otherwise we still need some forwards to help this group, JH is not enough to win your playoff.  

Huberdeau>Gaudreau: Reasoning - think of JG being a badass and taking zero Satoshi Nakamoto from ANYBODY, that's Huberdeau.

Dude is frigging intense and elevates all of his teammates in intensity level. We need that. Still can't believe they traded him, that's gonna hurt, a lot. Tkachuk won't fill that void, not even maybe.

Source: I watch a lot of FLA games. JH was the reason they can go down 5-1 into the 3rd and win 8-6.

"JH is an elite talent but soft and avoids the dirty areas" - No one ever.

Bonus points: The shock re the trade will die off. Into, "oh right, the Oilers are the arch-rival. They took RNH over me. I think I might like Calgary". He's going to torture the Oilers, I can almost guarantee it.

Weegar>Kylington

Meloche=Not far off of Gudbranson with more upside

Rooney=better 4th line fwd that can play all 3 positions

So, for me at least, we aren't worse than last year when we won a round.

I know that you're crushed that we lost JG and Tkachuk. I'm not, at all. We can hyperbolize what makes them great players, but it's worth baring in mind why they're not perfect players.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, crazyflames said:

We can talk as much as we want about JH, but we are still not gonna win playoff round if we don’t fix the bottom 6.  We can’t rely only our top line to score.  So this off season is super important because I don’t think our lines are fixed yet.  If Monahan somehow come back half of his best games, then we maybe enough to compete in this division.   Otherwise we still need some forwards to help this group, JH is not enough to win your playoff.  

 

I have been saying that a 4th line that gets its head kicked in is one of the issues we need to address.

Lucic-Monahan-Lewis or Lucic-Lewis-Ritchie was a problem.  Little scoring and limited skating.

The 3rd line with Dube-Jarnkrok/Rozie-Toffoli or some combo wasn't scoring much.

The other thing is that having only one scoring line and a shutdown line doesn't make sense.

 

Getting a 2C pushes down some of the talent and possibly takes out the usage of Lucic.

Maybe it's time for Lucic to move on or retire.  I'm starting to doubt Monahan can fit if he isn't top 6.

We need to decide if Dube can be a scoring F or more like Coleman.

If we can use one of the extra D and Dube to get a 2C, then we are down a RW.

 

Unfortunately, until we see what's available for what we have to offer, it's hard to figure out.

Rozie could be a 2nd scoring line C, but not top 6 minutes.

Pelletier could be a playmake on that line.

But that's putting a lot on them in the middle 6.

If they were part of the 4h line then we have the opportunity to get more scoring on the 2nd line.

Give up some of the toughness, but the D does a lot of that.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Weegar>Kylington

Meloche=Not far off of Gudbranson with more upside

Rooney=better 4th line fwd that can play all 3 positions

So, for me at least, we aren't worse than last year when we won a round.

I know that you're crushed that we lost JG and Tkachuk. I'm not, at all. We can hyperbolize what makes them great players, but it's worth baring in mind why they're not perfect players.

 

I forgot about Rooney.  If we can replace Lucic with a LW that can score, then we have fixed the line perhaps.

Monahan really should be traded because right now, Rozie is a better skater and capable of scoring.

We trade Lucic and Monahan and we get back some of the $11M spent on a 4th line.

[MP5029]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I have been saying that a 4th line that gets its head kicked in is one of the issues we need to address.

Lucic-Monahan-Lewis or Lucic-Lewis-Ritchie was a problem.  Little scoring and limited skating.

The 3rd line with Dube-Jarnkrok/Rozie-Toffoli or some combo wasn't scoring much.

The other thing is that having only one scoring line and a shutdown line doesn't make sense.

 

Getting a 2C pushes down some of the talent and possibly takes out the usage of Lucic.

Maybe it's time for Lucic to move on or retire.  I'm starting to doubt Monahan can fit if he isn't top 6.

We need to decide if Dube can be a scoring F or more like Coleman.

If we can use one of the extra D and Dube to get a 2C, then we are down a RW.

 

Unfortunately, until we see what's available for what we have to offer, it's hard to figure out.

Rozie could be a 2nd scoring line C, but not top 6 minutes.

Pelletier could be a playmake on that line.

But that's putting a lot on them in the middle 6.

If they were part of the 4h line then we have the opportunity to get more scoring on the 2nd line.

Give up some of the toughness, but the D does a lot of that.

 

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

I forgot about Rooney.  If we can replace Lucic with a LW that can score, then we have fixed the line perhaps.

Monahan really should be traded because right now, Rozie is a better skater and capable of scoring.

We trade Lucic and Monahan and we get back some of the $11M spent on a 4th line.

WhT would be ideal

ismif Monahan can bounce back and be the #2 Ctr…then it’s a top 6 RW and the bottom lines needing a few tweaks 

[bosn111]

Due to injuries and surgeries causing Monahan to have horrible seasons, and his cap hit over 6 million, his trade value has disappeared and his value to the Flames is limited. I refuse to ignore what he has done for the Flames in the past, I believe he is a genuinely good person and wish him the best, but need to consider the realities of Hockey life as a professional. 
 

Ideal situation would be that Monahan has a bounce back season, plays second line, puts up good offensive numbers and makes trading him in season difficult. Sadly this is not the likely outcome.

 

All of Monahan‘s best seasons were played with Gaudreau. Monahan had, and it may return, an elite shot which scored many goals. However away from Johnny, he had far less success and the rest of his game was good but nothing close to his shot. He doesn’t thrive on defence, doesn’t drive play, doesn’t really cause players around him to be better.

 

Lindholm does more of the game better than Monahan and also has a great shot. So at best we see Monahan as a 2C when at his best. Without someone else driving the play and getting him the puck in the slot, I just don’t see a resurgence from him that brings the value that the team needs.

 

I think he could do well with a player like Pelletier on his line, supporting the young playmaker by giving him a good target. The issue is that Monahan was never fast and his recent surgery may slow him even more. I believe he has more value for a rebuilding team than a team looking to be competing in the playoffs. His experience helps young guys, but even though not old, his skills have fallen off and aren’t where they used to be. He scored more goals in his rookie season than the last 2 combined.

 

Again this is nothing against Monahan as a person but the Flames need to look in a different direction. His cap hit can be better used elsewhere and there is almost no chance he gets a raise on his next contract unless they play him with Huberdeau and he nets 40-50 goals (35 would be a career high). Again Lindholm hit 42 last year with Gaudreau compared to Monahan’s best 34 so I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

 

If another team wants Monahan, and offers anything reasonable in return, I think the Flames need to make that trade. I would be ecstatic for him if he outplays the trade on his next team, similar to Bennett. In my opinion it is time for the Flames to go in a different direction than Monahan (and have been saying this since before his NTC kicked in so it is not anything new).

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

Used to think so...but then i saw that replay of him skating away from a puck in the corner in the playoffs...  Under Sutter he'd never be heard from again .. 

This is the way he plays period. Not just playoffs. He’s a selfish, me-first player. If you like perimeter players, he’s the poster boy, because he has the hair of course. 

[cross16]

10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Ugly rumor if Nylander for Hanifin going around.

LouCifer will LoSe it if true.

 

That's a steal if true. I don't get the criticism he takes, he is a heck of a player who would be a great fit here IMO. After the playoffs Hanifin had we'd be lucky to be able to get a player like Nylander for him. 

 

However, the rumor makes no sense. Reily, Muzzin, Gio and Sandin all man the LS in Toronto. They have no use for Hanifin. 

4 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Mmm how’s TB gonna get under the cap?

 

I Wonder if the good old Cgy boy Brayden Point could be had? He’s $$ at 9.5 per but solves the RW issue…
 

I wonder if Hanifin+  (Wouldn’t solve it but would help TB cut the cap

overage in 1/2) 
 

or Kylington + Valimaki + (would Cryptography the cap overage by a lot)

 

something has to give in TB they are way far over the cap so they are gonna need to

do Something, they can’t rely on LTIR every year, they are gonna need to move either a huge salary out….Or many smaller ones out…I think one larger one makes the most sense…Point is one of the few without a NMC/NTC clause of Any kind is

why I mentioned it.

 

in any case, it’s gonna be a low return formTB even if it’s a player like Point with a crazy high salary 

 

 

 

They are going to put Brent Seabrook on LTIR.  After that they would only need to clear 800k-1mill maybe. They don't need to trade a big name/salary player. 

[JTech780]

The player from Toronto that I could see them moving that might make some sense is Kerfoot. Solid secondary scoring option. He always seems to play Calgary hard. Can play the wing or center. Toronto needs to move salary and he seems to be the odd man out. Wouldn’t give up Hanifin for him, but I doubt it would take much to get him.

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I know that you're crushed that we lost JG and Tkachuk. I'm not, at all. We can hyperbolize what makes them great players, but it's worth baring in mind why they're not perfect players.

 

I was pushing trading Chucky this last season because I saw that the league over-valued him as a player, and I thought we could really reap the rewards. I’m happy he forced our hand, and I’m happy with the return we got. Johnny was harder tho. Getting Huberdeau has 100% changed the Johnny narrative, at least for me. 

 

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

I have been saying that a 4th line that gets its head kicked in is one of the issues we need to address. The other thing is that having only one scoring line and a shutdown line doesn't make sense. Getting a 2C pushes down some of the talent and possibly takes out the usage of Lucic.

Agreed on the 4th line.
And YES, 2C is a must to be addressed this summer. 

 

21 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

If another team wants Monahan, and offers anything reasonable in return, I think the Flames need to make that trade. I would be ecstatic for him if he outplays the trade on his next team, similar to Bennett. In my opinion it is time for the Flames to go in a different direction than Monahan (and have been saying this since before his NTC kicked in so it is not anything new).

You and I feel the same about Mony and I would cheer him on elsewhere. I also recognized years ago how much Mony depended on Johnny, and wish we capitalized on that years ago before his NTC kicked in. It is what it is, and like BT said we deal with it and we move forward. 
 

Im not sure where I stand with Looch. I love the guy, and if Mony can be moved I wouldn’t be pushing Looch out the door.