2022 Offseason

[LouCifer]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's a lose-lose trade for MTL.

They can't afford cap to pay Tkachuk.

Fans would lose it over the summer.

Media would burn down Bell Centre.

 

But....

Fans would chant his name every time he was on the ice.

They would scream at the refs every time he fell.

 

As much as Tkachuk is a polarizing player and may be part of a huge trade, losing him changes our identity.  As much as Sutter claims we don't have star power, we have 3 quasi-elite players.  We were a top 10 scoring team in the league on the backs of 4 players.  

 

🤔 could we take a one-year contract back with the 1OA to "help" MTL with the cap needed to sign Chucky and pull the 1OA away from them? I know the draft is in MTL this year. I do wonder what the response would be from the fans and media if they hear "we have a trade to announce" for the 1st overall pick and Tkachuk's name is said. 🤷‍♂️ I guess it's fun to imagine. This post and suggestion wouldn't belong in the "realistic" trade suggestions thread.  

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, LouCifer said:

 

🤔 could we take a one-year contract back with the 1OA to "help" MTL with the cap needed to sign Chucky and pull the 1OA away from them? I know the draft is in MTL this year. I do wonder what the response would be from the fans and media if they hear "we have a trade to announce" for the 1st overall pick and Tkachuk's name is said. 🤷‍♂️ I guess it's fun to imagine. This post and suggestion wouldn't belong in the "realistic" trade suggestions thread.  

 

I suppose we could take back Drouin and Hoffman to give them some room.  But that maybe doesn't make sense to MTL.  They can use Drouin, should he be on LTIR again. 

 

Here's one thing to consider about Tkachuk going to MTL.  Can you imagine Tkachuk ever learning French?  Not that you must, but I think he would have problems with the language laws there.   

[tmac70]

The whole purpose of trades is to improve your club, I have yet to read one here that does this in a Chucky trade. The facts are we had the best 1st line in hockey and I pressume Trevling will move heaven and earth to keep it together. I do believe they get signed, JG will get some where between 10-11 Million per year the trump card is we have the ability to sign for 8 years. I just don't see NJ, Philly Seattle ect offer 12.5 for him over 7 or evern 11.5 for 7 if the price is 10 million a season. If he is offerred that kind of money and still wishes to leave than he truely did not want to be here. Chucky we have control over you can qualify him at 9 and take your chances, I could see a 10 million for 7-8 for JG and 9-9.5 for 6 on Matthew

 

Once thats done you now have to deal with Mags, Kylington and fill some holes. Is losing Mony a better option than signing Mags and Kylinton or are they best moved. Toffoli could be moved, Hanifin, Backs, hopefully Lucic retires. Now if Mags is 5-5.5 Million or you could move Mony, Toffoli and Nichuskin could be had for Mags sigining money, I take Nichuskin every time. Plus at some point this organization is going to have to take a leap of faith with their AHL guys. Moving Mony means you believe Rozie is a better future option. who could put up 30-40 points. If you move Backs you better strongly believe or have a ideal filler for that role, he would leave a large hole at center. 

 

In a perfcet scenario If Arz is willing trade Mony, Hanifin and Kylington for Chychurn. Arz gets three players that can slid into their roster. We get the stud DMan we need. With Chychrn in the mix and moving out that cap hit, you have 32 million left. your going to need 26-27 million to bring back a combo of JG, Mathew a UFA for 5.5-6 or Mags. Leaves you with 5-6 Million left.  Another dman that may be a possibilty os Subban on a short term 3 million contract, Can skate veteran and former norris winner, moves the puck. COuld excel in a sutter system in a sheltered role. 

 

JG Lindy MT/ NIchuskin

Coleman Backs MT/ Nich ( mags)

Dube Rozie Toffoli (?)

? Lewis Duher

 

Tanev Anderson( Chychrun)

Chyrchurn/ Subban

Mackey/ Gubranson 

 

 

[LouCifer]

24 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

The whole purpose of trades is to improve your club, I have yet to read one here that does this in a Chucky trade. The facts are we had the best 1st line in hockey and I pressume Trevling will move heaven and earth to keep it together. I do believe they get signed, JG will get some where between 10-11 Million per year the trump card is we have the ability to sign for 8 years. I just don't see NJ, Philly Seattle ect offer 12.5 for him over 7 or evern 11.5 for 7 if the price is 10 million a season. If he is offerred that kind of money and still wishes to leave than he truely did not want to be here. Chucky we have control over you can qualify him at 9 and take your chances, I could see a 10 million for 7-8 for JG and 9-9.5 for 6 on Matthew

 

Once thats done you now have to deal with Mags, Kylington and fill some holes. Is losing Mony a better option than signing Mags and Kylinton or are they best moved. Toffoli could be moved, Hanifin, Backs, hopefully Lucic retires. Now if Mags is 5-5.5 Million or you could move Mony, Toffoli and Nichuskin could be had for Mags sigining money, I take Nichuskin every time. Plus at some point this organization is going to have to take a leap of faith with their AHL guys. Moving Mony means you believe Rozie is a better future option. who could put up 30-40 points. If you move Backs you better strongly believe or have a ideal filler for that role, he would leave a large hole at center. 

 

In a perfcet scenario If Arz is willing trade Mony, Hanifin and Kylington for Chychurn. Arz gets three players that can slid into their roster. We get the stud DMan we need. With Chychrn in the mix and moving out that cap hit, you have 32 million left. your going to need 26-27 million to bring back a combo of JG, Mathew a UFA for 5.5-6 or Mags. Leaves you with 5-6 Million left.  Another dman that may be a possibilty os Subban on a short term 3 million contract, Can skate veteran and former norris winner, moves the puck. COuld excel in a sutter system in a sheltered role. 

 

JG Lindy MT/ NIchuskin

Coleman Backs MT/ Nich ( mags)

Dube Rozie Toffoli (?)

? Lewis Duher

 

Tanev Anderson( Chychrun)

Chyrchurn/ Subban

Mackey/ Gubranson 

 

 

 

Your proposal is good TMac. And I'm aware I'm very brash in my opinion about not overpaying Chucky and acquiring centermen. Overpaying is subjective of course, and for me, Chucky making anywhere close to $9-$10M is overvaluing him and going to handcuff this team for the foreseeable future. Does trading Chucky to MTL in order to select Shane Wright make us better? Not on its own. I would argue though that Shane Wright making an ELC gives us the cap space to then add someone else to the mix to make us better throughout our lineup. Having strength on each line tends to bode better for competing for a championship than having the best top line in the regular season. That's where my line of thinking is. Maybe the Yotes would accept Mony + Hanifin + Valimaki for Chychrun. That would allow us to keep Kyller with Tanev. Clearly I'm not high on Valimaki. 

[travel_dude]

41 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

The whole purpose of trades is to improve your club, I have yet to read one here that does this in a Chucky trade. The facts are we had the best 1st line in hockey and I pressume Trevling will move heaven and earth to keep it together. I do believe they get signed, JG will get some where between 10-11 Million per year the trump card is we have the ability to sign for 8 years. I just don't see NJ, Philly Seattle ect offer 12.5 for him over 7 or evern 11.5 for 7 if the price is 10 million a season. If he is offerred that kind of money and still wishes to leave than he truely did not want to be here. Chucky we have control over you can qualify him at 9 and take your chances, I could see a 10 million for 7-8 for JG and 9-9.5 for 6 on Matthew

 

Once thats done you now have to deal with Mags, Kylington and fill some holes. Is losing Mony a better option than signing Mags and Kylinton or are they best moved. Toffoli could be moved, Hanifin, Backs, hopefully Lucic retires. Now if Mags is 5-5.5 Million or you could move Mony, Toffoli and Nichuskin could be had for Mags sigining money, I take Nichuskin every time. Plus at some point this organization is going to have to take a leap of faith with their AHL guys. Moving Mony means you believe Rozie is a better future option. who could put up 30-40 points. If you move Backs you better strongly believe or have a ideal filler for that role, he would leave a large hole at center. 

 

In a perfcet scenario If Arz is willing trade Mony, Hanifin and Kylington for Chychurn. Arz gets three players that can slid into their roster. We get the stud DMan we need. With Chychrn in the mix and moving out that cap hit, you have 32 million left. your going to need 26-27 million to bring back a combo of JG, Mathew a UFA for 5.5-6 or Mags. Leaves you with 5-6 Million left.  Another dman that may be a possibilty os Subban on a short term 3 million contract, Can skate veteran and former norris winner, moves the puck. COuld excel in a sutter system in a sheltered role. 

 

JG Lindy MT/ NIchuskin

Coleman Backs MT/ Nich ( mags)

Dube Rozie Toffoli (?)

? Lewis Duher

 

Tanev Anderson( Chychrun)

Chyrchurn/ Subban

Mackey/ Gubranson 

 

 

 

Okay, so I will say I like Nichuskin.  If he gets to market, we should try to sign him.

He's worth $6M in my opinion on the open market should he get there.

Bit of a risk, but likely to produce as well as Mangiapane.

And he's a LW.

And it only makes sense to use him as a top 6 scorer.

 

If we are trading Mangiapane, then we best get a top 6 C to have someone for Nich to play with.  Backlund isn't the right fit.  You may be able to go with Nich-C-Toffoli.  3rd line of Coleman-Backlund-Jarnkrok.  4th line of Pelletier-Rozie-Lewis.  

 

I would counter your offer for Chychrun by suggesting Hanifin, Dube and Zary.

 

No thanks to Subban.  He's not what he used to be.

Manson would be more logical.

 

I haven't done the cap math, but the implication is we have sent out close to $14M and taken back $4.5M for Chychrun.  Lucic retires.  Mangiapane out and a similar cost C coming back.  $4.5M for Manson.  $2M for Jarnkrok.  $6M for Nich.  $2M for Guddy and $2M for Kylington.  

[flames for life]

27 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

Your proposal is good TMac. And I'm aware I'm very brash in my opinion about not overpaying Chucky and acquiring centermen. Overpaying is subjective of course, and for me, Chucky making anywhere close to $9-$10M is overvaluing him and going to handcuff this team for the foreseeable future. Does trading Chucky to MTL in order to select Shane Wright make us better? Not on its own. I would argue though that Shane Wright making an ELC gives us the cap space to then add someone else to the mix to make us better throughout our lineup. Having strength on each line tends to bode better for competing for a championship than having the best top line in the regular season. That's where my line of thinking is. Maybe the Yotes would accept Mony + Hanifin + Valimaki for Chychrun. That would allow us to keep Kyller with Tanev. Clearly I'm not high on Valimaki. 

I agree with most of what you’re stating here.  I’m not high on Valimaki, either.  But I’m struggling to see Chychrun as that “stud D” that people (Tmac70) assess him as.  Not that I think he’s a dud, but in areas, Kylington had better stats.  Would he be an asset to our team, probably.  Given his play last years, is he worth three of our nhl players, all from our young stock with years of play left?  IMO, not so much.

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, flames for life said:

I agree with most of what you’re stating here.  I’m not high on Valimaki, either.  But I’m struggling to see Chychrun as that “stud D” that people (Tmac70) assess him as.  Not that I think he’s a dud, but in areas, Kylington had better stats.  Would he be an asset to our team, probably.  Given his play last years, is he worth three of our nhl players, all from our young stock with years of play left?  IMO, not so much.

 

The premise is that Chychrun is the same or better than Hanifin.  Most of the trades include Monahan, which is a cap dump.  In TMAC's proposal, we dump salary for a cost controlled player for 3 more years.  AZ would be dumb to make that deal.  Mine is less of a cap dump.  It might be too soon to give up on Zary though.  As an alternative, I would do Monahan + Hanifin + Dube to start.  We can likely bring in an AHL player to offset Dube.    

 

   

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

The premise is that Chychrun is the same or better than Hanifin.  Most of the trades include Monahan, which is a cap dump.  In TMAC's proposal, we dump salary for a cost controlled player for 3 more years.  AZ would be dumb to make that deal.  Mine is less of a cap dump.  It might be too soon to give up on Zary though.  As an alternative, I would do Monahan + Hanifin + Dube to start.  We can likely bring in an AHL player to offset Dube.    

 

   

Monahan is a cap dump, which means he alone + prolly a 2023 2nd to dump cap. Not sure why he's being used as an asset but called a cap dump. You have to pay teams to take a cap dump.

[LouCifer]

13 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Monahan is a cap dump, which means he alone + prolly a 2023 2nd to dump cap. Not sure why he's being used as an asset but called a cap dump. You have to pay teams to take a cap dump.

 

Yes Mony is a cap dump for us, but, there is also the possibility he becomes a flippable asset at the TDL. Being in the final year of his contract, he could fetch ARZ additional asset(s) at the deadline. This of course in addition to other assets we send to ARZ. But, does Mony waive to go to ARZ? I mean, if he doesn't have a spot in our lineup, perhaps the opportunity for him in ARZ makes him consider it (as he knows as well he only has 1 year left on his contract).  

 

I'll also add that really its the potential of Chychrun that is the allure for the player. Would he perform better in CGY? It's probable. Does he have a higher ceiling than Hanifin? It's possible. I think when you see how offence works from the backend for Colorado (not saying Chych = Makar) but having that kind of offensive mobility adds another dynamic to the team in the quest for a championship. Chychrun could be viewed as a Makar / Fox "lite" essentially to replace that lost mobile D when Fox left. 

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Monahan is a cap dump, which means he alone + prolly a 2023 2nd to dump cap. Not sure why he's being used as an asset but called a cap dump. You have to pay teams to take a cap dump.

 

Oh, I get that.  Hoping that ARI didn't realize that.  LOL.

If DET would do it, I would so Monahan plus a pick.  Maybe not a 2nd since it's just one year.

[conundrumed]

19 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

Yes Mony is a cap dump for us, but, there is also the possibility he becomes a flippable asset at the TDL. Being in the final year of his contract, he could fetch ARZ additional asset(s) at the deadline. This of course in addition to other assets we send to ARZ. But, does Mony waive to go to ARZ? I mean, if he doesn't have a spot in our lineup, perhaps the opportunity for him in ARZ makes him consider it (as he knows as well he only has 1 year left on his contract).  

 

I'll also add that really its the potential of Chychrun that is the allure for the player. Would he perform better in CGY? It's probable. Does he have a higher ceiling than Hanifin? It's possible. I think when you see how offence works from the backend for Colorado (not saying Chych = Makar) but having that kind of offensive mobility adds another dynamic to the team in the quest for a championship. Chychrun could be viewed as a Makar / Fox "lite" essentially to replace that lost mobile D when Fox left. 

This is where I say that proposal falls flat. So basically Hanifin + Valimaki for Chychrun AND they take a $6.375 cap dump? It's not plausible.

Guess how they got Chychrun...by taking Datsyuk's 1 yr @ $7mil for Detroit's 1st rd pick (16oa).

They can do much better and likely will. If not, why not just keep him?

[flames for life]

21 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

Yes Mony is a cap dump for us, but, there is also the possibility he becomes a flippable asset at the TDL. Being in the final year of his contract, he could fetch ARZ additional asset(s) at the deadline. This of course in addition to other assets we send to ARZ. But, does Mony waive to go to ARZ? I mean, if he doesn't have a spot in our lineup, perhaps the opportunity for him in ARZ makes him consider it (as he knows as well he only has 1 year left on his contract).  

 

I'll also add that really its the potential of Chychrun that is the allure for the player. Would he perform better in CGY? It's probable. Does he have a higher ceiling than Hanifin? It's possible. I think when you see how offence works from the backend for Colorado (not saying Chych = Makar) but having that kind of offensive mobility adds another dynamic to the team in the quest for a championship. Chychrun could be viewed as a Makar / Fox "lite" essentially to replace that lost mobile D when Fox left. 

A lot of “if’s “ and “could possibly” being thrown around.  By that premise or thought, Monaghan is now fixed, and will possibly be a 25 goal, 60 point centre again, and not a cap dump.  Do I think that?  No, not at all.  But to gamble on a player who could be viewed as superstar status without showing the potential in the last couple years; I’m not buying it.  A step up on Hanifin?  Maybe.  Anchor and leader for the defence? In Arizona, yes.  On our team, not at the moment.  Plan out the trade but let’s have reasonable expectations.  I’ll be honest, I’m not convinced he would be a good top 2, which would still put in the debate and hunt for better.

[LouCifer]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

This is where I say that proposal falls flat. So basically Hanifin + Valimaki for Chychrun AND they take a $6.375 cap dump? It's not plausible.

Guess how they got Chychrun...by taking Datsyuk's 1 yr @ $7mil for Detroit's 1st rd pick (16oa).

They can do much better and likely will. If not, why not just keep him?

 

Ok. Maybe so. I see it differently because I do expect Mony to play for them, unlike Datsyuk. And Mony can be traded at the TDL, unlike Datsyuk. Do I think Mony is going to score 30 goals again? No. But with Chych out and Hanifin and Valimaki in - their cap stays in the same spot. Mony would help them get to the cap floor, but there are other (potentially better) ways of doing that. This is essentially the way I was thinking about it.  

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Oh, I get that.  Hoping that ARI didn't realize that.  LOL.

If DET would do it, I would so Monahan plus a pick.  Maybe not a 2nd since it's just one year.

I'd actually like that! I think Mony could end up prospering in that situation. I doubt he becomes a tdl asset as some are implying, but he needs a new place to try to rejuvenate his career. I think Detroit would be perfect.

I think most Flames fans have pretty much turned on him.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'd actually like that! I think Mony could end up prospering in that situation. I doubt he becomes a tdl asset as some are implying, but he needs a new place to try to rejuvenate his career. I think Detroit would be perfect.

I think most Flames fans have pretty much turned on him.

 

My issue with him this year is strictly cap.  I think he needed a bit longer runway to recover but was hampered by another injury.  DET would likely fit his needs to play nearer to family.  Playing with youth would probably suit him especially if he got his shot back on track.  

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, flames for life said:

A lot of “if’s “ and “could possibly” being thrown around.  By that premise or thought, Monaghan is now fixed, and will possibly be a 25 goal, 60 point centre again, and not a cap dump.  Do I think that?  No, not at all.  But to gamble on a player who could be viewed as superstar status without showing the potential in the last couple years; I’m not buying it.  A step up on Hanifin?  Maybe.  Anchor and leader for the defence? In Arizona, yes.  On our team, not at the moment.  Plan out the trade but let’s have reasonable expectations.  I’ll be honest, I’m not convinced he would be a good top 2, which would still put in the debate and hunt for better.

It's a fair assessment, but only insofar as assessing any player in the atrocity that is the 'Yotes.

Keller and Chychrun, same draft, still the only decent players they have.

I'm bias on Chychrun as he played for the Sarnia Sting. I can speak to his character, which to this day was a very close 2nd to Stamkos.

Also, it's a pretty big shift to have him paired with Tanev/Andersson vs AHL-quality.

We won't get him regardless, we just don't have the assets to spare.

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

My issue with him this year is strictly cap.  I think he needed a bit longer runway to recover but was hampered by another injury.  DET would likely fit his needs to play nearer to family.  Playing with youth would probably suit him especially if he got his shot back on track.  

Which is why I think Detroit should jump on it, if BT's backed into a corner. They can get an asset and a player capable of coming back. He doesn't have to be a top 2C, Detroit has time. He looks good in red.lol

[tmac70]

Rumours are now out that JG and Flames have not reached an agreement. It appears he will test FA to gauge his value, this is not to say he won't circle back. He has the right but the Only teams that make sense would be NJ, Det, ARZ, ANA, Maybe Ottawa or Buffalo that could afford his contract. 

[The_People1]

If BT is going to move heaven and earth to keep both Gaudreau and Tkachuk, then I feel the next best trade chip we have becomes Mangiapane.  He had a great year and many teams took notice.  We really need that #1 LD who can stop McDavid because we will play them again in the playoffs for the next 3 years.  We have to be ready next time.

 

Mangiapane+ for Chychrun could start talks.

 

OTT won't talk Chabot unless it's Tkachuk so forget Chabot.

 

Maybe take a chance on Provorov from PHI.

 

Not sure who else is available.  #1 LD don't grow on trees.

[The_People1]

31 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Rumours are now out that JG and Flames have not reached an agreement. It appears he will test FA to gauge his value, this is not to say he won't circle back. He has the right but the Only teams that make sense would be NJ, Det, ARZ, ANA, Maybe Ottawa or Buffalo that could afford his contract. 

 

If he circles back, then he can no longer get that 8th year from us?

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Rumours are now out that JG and Flames have not reached an agreement. It appears he will test FA to gauge his value, this is not to say he won't circle back. He has the right but the Only teams that make sense would be NJ, Det, ARZ, ANA, Maybe Ottawa or Buffalo that could afford his contract. 

 

Him not signed yet means just that.  Not signed yet.  It's a binary thing.  The biggest contracts don't get signed in a couple of weeks.  Who knows what the state of negotiations really is.  It's not negotiated in public.  BT has his numbers and Gross does too.  There is no real benefit to sign if you are still some distance apart or can't quite agree on some of the terms.

[robrob74]

On 6/20/2022 at 8:02 AM, LouCifer said:

 

The Center hole is bigger than a Winger hole. That sounded dirty, but you get the point. Wing-holes are easier to fill than C-holes. Oops, did it again...  We need to be stronger down the middle! ... I give up.

 

the one I’m seeing now wondered why she likes hockey so much, then the commentators talked about how their guy was holding our guy’s stick, and then some guy sticked our guy… it’s all dirty talk to her.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

the one I’m seeing now wondered why she likes hockey so much, then the commentators talked about how their guy was holding our guy’s stick, and then some guy sticked our guy… it’s all dirty talk to her.

 

Not to mention butt ending.  

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Monahan is a cap dump, which means he alone + prolly a 2023 2nd to dump cap. Not sure why he's being used as an asset but called a cap dump. You have to pay teams to take a cap dump.

 

i think a lot still see Monahan as the 30 goal scorer he is. The other problem with Monahan is he’s not even good for LTIR because he never sits when he is injured so teams don’t get to use the LTIR space his injuries can possibly produce. 
 

Not saying the Flames would have gained a top6 C at the deadline, but maybe him being honest about his injury could give the Flames more options, 

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not to mention butt ending.  

😷💩