2022 Offseason

[LouCifer]

12 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

The basics of it is the Blues dont HAVE to do anything with Kyrou this off season. They dont have alot of contracts to worry about this year and Kyrou will still be under ST Loo control next summer.  By then theyll have a better idea what to do with the mass amount of contracts due next off season.

 

Basically the Blues have time to deal with these things next summer which the Flames have to do this summer. If there was any whiff of Kyrou being shopped there would be alot of interest to drive the price up.  Personally I think OReilly and Tarasenko will be cap casualties next summer to help make room for the younger players.

I see. Yes, my proposal is largely based on St.Louis' desire to acquire Chucky and you're right they may not be all that interested. Big assumption on my part  Thanks FFIJL

[Thebrewcrew]

 

[LouCifer]

59 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

If Tkachuk is in play, it has to be for the highest bidder.  STL may not even make sense considering their cap.  The reasons for signing him is to get a specific skillset or bring in a home boy for PR purposes.  Not sure that is a good enough reason, though.  There are probably 20 teams that could make a decent offer, none of them would really save us cap.  

 

Agreed with the bolded. But I want to reply to the underlined. It would most certainly save us cap, especially if the return includes only assets like picks and prospects. Chucky is presumably going to cost somewhere around $9M on the cap. Trading him eliminates that possibility and allows us to allocate that money elsewhere (Johnny's / Mange's increases, 2C, a top D man). Chucky's a good player. But I believe we really need to shore up C if we want to contend, and fill in with wingers who's production will increase because of the quality of Centermen we have.  

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, pikey7883 said:

It is my understanding that QO’s are always 1 year deals, and there are rules based on what the qualification salary has to be. Ranging from 100-110% of the previous years salary depending on what there AAV was. I believe the QO is to offer a fair number that could be extended over term and is more or less a starting point in negotiations. Unless the player has arbitration rights. 

 

Yes thanks, says here QO shall be 1-year in length.

https://www.capfriendly.com/qualifying-offer-calculator

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

31 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I see. Yes, my proposal is largely based on St.Louis' desire to acquire Chucky and you're right they may not be all that interested. Big assumption on my part  Thanks FFIJL

I can see the optics would make sense to anyone outside of the market but the gain/loss of assets could be the stumbling block.  Ideally IF Chucky was to be moved I think for the Flames the best place would be Ottawa. Chucky+ For Chabot, Batherson/Norris or a high pick.  With new owners may come new directives in Ottawa so who knows whats going to happen there.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

First it was concerns about his wife not wanting to live here.  Then it was about family not wanting to visit.  Now it's about having family support during the birth and first year of parenthood.  I'm sure he's not the first person that had to deal with it.  If he doesn't like the city or think it's a good place to raise a family, I can understand that.  It's their choice, and a young mother might not feel comfortable in being "alone" so often.  Unless it's Philly, every other possible destination has the same issue, not being in the same city as their parents.  NJ (Newark) is not exactly next door.  But he's also started something special here.  

[The_People1]

34 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

Nothing really new to us.  It's too bad we will have to deal with Tkachuk before Gaudreau's deadline to sign arrives.  We need to know Gaudreau's answer first before we decide what to do with Tkachuk.  Tkachuk will just revert back to a 65 to 70-point player without Gaudreau and no way that's worth $10-mil.

 

One optional pre-emptive pivot that BT could make is to trade both Gaudreau and Tkachuk to NJ on the draft floor for the 2nd OA (Slafkovsky) + Alexander Holtz + Shakir Mukhamadulin + (if NJ needs to shed salary then we'll take Tatar + Bernier but they have to also give us Chase Stillman to do so).

 

That would be a nice haul for a quick and nice rebuild.  We would be in the Conor Bedard sweepstakes next season in a deep draft year.  We will have lots of UFAs to sell at the TDL for more picks for next year's draft.  It just sounds like if any team is ever going to do a rebuild then next year's draft is the perfect draft to do the rebuild with.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

Agreed with the bolded. But I want to reply to the underlined. It would most certainly save us cap, especially if the return includes only assets like picks and prospects. Chucky is presumably going to cost somewhere around $9M on the cap. Trading him eliminates that possibility and allows us to allocate that money elsewhere (Johnny's / Mange's increases, 2C, a top D man). Chucky's a good player. But I believe we really need to shore up C if we want to contend, and fill in with wingers who's production will increase because of the quality of Centermen we have.  

 

I'm just saying that most of the trades would have almost equal salary coming back.  Teams have to fill their rosters.  So the bidding war has to include players coming back.  What could NJ or DET offer that doesn't hurt them more?  Just picks?  Why does that make sense to get?  I would want Hischier from NJ or Raymond from DET, and Raymond solves nothing.  Hischier brings back a long term money deal.

[Thebrewcrew]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Nothing really new to us.  It's too bad we will have to deal with Tkachuk before Gaudreau's deadline to sign arrives.  We need to know Gaudreau's answer first before we decide what to do with Tkachuk.  Tkachuk will just revert back to a 65 to 70-point player without Gaudreau and no way that's worth $10-mil.

 

One optional pre-emptive pivot that BT could make is to trade both Gaudreau and Tkachuk to NJ on the draft floor for the 2nd OA (Slafkovsky) + Alexander Holtz + Shakir Mukhamadulin + (if NJ needs to shed salary then we'll take Tatar + Bernier but they have to also give us Chase Stillman to do so).

 

That would be a nice haul for a quick and nice rebuild.  We would be in the Conor Bedard sweepstakes next season in a deep draft year.  We will have lots of UFAs to sell at the TDL for more picks for next year's draft.  It just sounds like if any team is ever going to do a rebuild then next year's draft is the perfect draft to do the rebuild with.

The timeline is definitely too bad.

 

I'm not convinced BT is gonna trade Tkachuk, but if they do the time to do-so is at the Draft. Especially if there's a 2nd overall pick that can be acquired. His value only goes down the closer we get to next season. If he won't sign long-term, you're talking about TDL rental type trade return, if the Flames struggle in the upcoming season. Late 1st, meh prospect. Just like the Iggy deal. 

 

Unfortunately, the timeline doesn't work great for the Flames. They still may not know what Gaudreau's decision is and I really believe that if the Flames trade Tkachuk at the draft, Gaudreau is leaving. Could be wrong, but that's my belief.

[robrob74]

If someone offer sheets Tkachuk, I’d be surprised. Are they willing to give up those picks and have their own picks to do so. There will be teams who can, but without Johnny, I’d have to take the compensation otherwise, Tkachuk is a 70-80 point player without Johnny and we have to pay Tkachuk at a 90-100 point rate. 
 

Can we find a similar playmaker like Johnny? I don’t know. I don’t think so. 
 

i think this team did an amazing job this year and deserved a better fate in the second round. I liked their compete and they did make me proud otherwise. 
 

i still think there were glaring holes in the lineup that made us not able to compete. A secondary playmaker was one to allow guys like Toffoli and Mangiapane to score more. That said, Johnny’s line needed to score too. 
 

but I don’t know if that means we need to retool or keep building on what we have. Treliving did a good job of filling some holes. I get the Tanev injury changed a lot too. 
 

in the end we lost momentum due to reffing, but weren’t able to get back to the game . 
 

it will be interesting to see what the team does.
 

We’ve been good at finding NHLers in the draft, but I think we are at a point where just finding NHLers isn’t good enough. We need some impact players. 

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

If someone offer sheets Tkachuk, I’d be surprised. Are they willing to give up those picks and have their own picks to do so. There will be teams who can, but without Johnny, I’d have to take the compensation otherwise, Tkachuk is a 70-80 point player without Johnny and we have to pay Tkachuk at a 90-100 point rate. 
 

Can we find a similar playmaker like Johnny? I don’t know. I don’t think so. 
 

i think this team did an amazing job this year and deserved a better fate in the second round. I liked their compete and they did make me proud otherwise. 
 

i still think there were glaring holes in the lineup that made us not able to compete. A secondary playmaker was one to allow guys like Toffoli and Mangiapane to score more. That said, Johnny’s line needed to score too. 
 

but I don’t know if that means we need to retool or keep building on what we have. Treliving did a good job of filling some holes. I get the Tanev injury changed a lot too. 
 

in the end we lost momentum due to reffing, but weren’t able to get back to the game . 
 

it will be interesting to see what the team does.
 

We’ve been good at finding NHLers in the draft, but I think we are at a point where just finding NHLers isn’t good enough. We need some impact players. 

 

Short of a very high draft pick, the only way we are getting that impact is through trade.

We are a committee based scoring team, so we have to continue to build the way we did last year.

Lucic put a crimp on improving via trades or FA signings.

Monahan could have been a 2C but never got to that level.

 

Without Lucic's money, we could sign a playmaker.

Without Lucic's and Monahan's money we could sign a 2C.

 

I'm not sure, but I think we have a potential 2C and playmaker on the way up.

High on both those players.

If we could clear out some salary, then we can possibly get another 3/4D.

Or use Hanifin (maybe a few other pieces) and get closer to a 1D.

 

Teams can be fragile, but Sutter seems to be able to bring together the team he has.

My beef with Tkachuk is his (at times) lazy skating and play.

Other than that, worth every penny.

Johnny is the franchise player we have and just need a few more to compliment.

Top line really no issues.

2nd line with Backlund is great.

3rd line missing something.

4th line needs some work, as it was on for too many goals in the playoffs.

 

If we traded Tkachuk, we need to get Forsberg to replace star power.

If we trade Tkachuk, we need a 1D and 2C at the very least. 

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I can see the optics would make sense to anyone outside of the market but the gain/loss of assets could be the stumbling block.  Ideally IF Chucky was to be moved I think for the Flames the best place would be Ottawa. Chucky+ For Chabot, Batherson/Norris or a high pick.  With new owners may come new directives in Ottawa so who knows whats going to happen there.

 

👍

 

Interesting you bring up OTT, part of my "CapFriendly training day" involved me trying to come up with a trade that unites the Tkachuk brothers. Given Brady is signed there long term, Matty may find that destination very preferable to do the same. I was also thinking along the lines of Chabot and Norris specifically. What do you think we'd have to add in addition to Matthew to get those 2 players out of Ottawa? 

 

As an aside, seeing the Tkachuk brothers torment Leaf nation would be soooooo good for me.  

[The_People1]

12 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 I really believe that if the Flames trade Tkachuk at the draft, Gaudreau is leaving. Could be wrong, but that's my belief.

 

For sures and that's why maybe we can move them both to NJ... Assuming NJ wants the extra two weeks to negotiate with Gaudreau before PHI or NYI get to him first.

[travel_dude]

33 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

For sures and that's why maybe we can move them both to NJ... Assuming NJ wants the extra two weeks to negotiate with Gaudreau before PHI or NYI get to him first.

 

Considering neither of those teams are contenders or close to being one, why does Gaudreau ever sign there?

Sign to play with Torts on a team that was a mess?  They need to get rid of JVR just to have room.

And to actually get a goalie.

Sign with NJ?  Young team on the rise, give them at least 3 years.

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Considering neither of those teams are contenders or close to being one, why does Gaudreau ever sign there?

Sign to play with Torts on a team that was a mess?  They need to get rid of JVR just to have room.

And to actually get a goalie.

Sign with NJ?  Young team on the rise, give them at least 3 years.

 

The Flames are also not contenders unless they have Gaudreau.  Once NJ adds Gaudreau, then they will be a contender.

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The Flames are also not contenders unless they have Gaudreau.  Once NJ adds Gaudreau, then they will be a contender.

Or they are like the Flames last year.

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

One optional pre-emptive pivot that BT could make is to trade both Gaudreau and Tkachuk to NJ on the draft floor for the 2nd OA (Slafkovsky) + Alexander Holtz + Shakir Mukhamadulin + (if NJ needs to shed salary then we'll take Tatar + Bernier but they have to also give us Chase Stillman to do so). That would be a nice haul for a quick and nice rebuild.  We would be in the Conor Bedard sweepstakes next season in a deep draft year.  We will have lots of UFAs to sell at the TDL for more picks for next year's draft.  It just sounds like if any team is ever going to do a rebuild then next year's draft is the perfect draft to do the rebuild with.

 

If Johnny doesn't sign with us, I'm intrigued and would consider being on-board with such a tear-down for the Bedard sweepstakes. Not everyone of course. But the big names. Sutter wouldn't like it, but he's not making the choice for Johnny and Chucky to sign/stay. In fact, Sutter could single-handedly ruin any chance at Bedard even without those two players!

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, LouCifer said:

 

👍

 

Interesting you bring up OTT, part of my "CapFriendly training day" involved me trying to come up with a trade that unites the Tkachuk brothers. Given Brady is signed there long term, Matty may find that destination very preferable to do the same. I was also thinking along the lines of Chabot and Norris specifically. What do you think we'd have to add in addition to Matthew to get those 2 players out of Ottawa? 

 

As an aside, seeing the Tkachuk brothers torment Leaf nation would be soooooo good for me.  

That alone would sell more tickets in the capital. And endear the Sens to the rest of Canada.

[MP5029]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

First it was concerns about his wife not wanting to live here.  Then it was about family not wanting to visit.  Now it's about having family support during the birth and first year of parenthood.  I'm sure he's not the first person that had to deal with it.  If he doesn't like the city or think it's a good place to raise a family, I can understand that.  It's their choice, and a young mother might not feel comfortable in being "alone" so often.  Unless it's Philly, every other possible destination has the same issue, not being in the same city as their parents.  NJ (Newark) is not exactly next door.  But he's also started something special here.  

With the money he will be getting he could

afford a home in CGY..In the family area and a home for his family in Cgy while

he’s playing hockey…and he’s probably gonna have money left over…then retire…move the home he wants and sell

the others…probably make a profit in 8 years…

 

there problems solved! 

[MP5029]

2 hours ago, LouCifer said:

 

If Johnny doesn't sign with us, I'm intrigued and would consider being on-board with such a tear-down for the Bedard sweepstakes. Not everyone of course. But the big names. Sutter wouldn't like it, but he's not making the choice for Johnny and Chucky to sign/stay. In fact, Sutter could single-handedly ruin any chance at Bedard even without those two players!

That’s true…Sutter would and could

take an AHL team and complete for a playoff spot in the NHL

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I can see the optics would make sense to anyone outside of the market but the gain/loss of assets could be the stumbling block.  Ideally IF Chucky was to be moved I think for the Flames the best place would be Ottawa. Chucky+ For Chabot, Batherson/Norris or a high pick.  With new owners may come new directives in Ottawa so who knows whats going to happen there.

 

4 hours ago, LouCifer said:

 

👍

 

Interesting you bring up OTT, part of my "CapFriendly training day" involved me trying to come up with a trade that unites the Tkachuk brothers. Given Brady is signed there long term, Matty may find that destination very preferable to do the same. I was also thinking along the lines of Chabot and Norris specifically. What do you think we'd have to add in addition to Matthew to get those 2 players out of Ottawa? 

 

As an aside, seeing the Tkachuk brothers torment Leaf nation would be soooooo good for me.  

 

Tkachuk for Chabot is a trade I think we should try to initiate with the Sens.  I doubt we get Chabot+ though.  Chabot is a legit stud.  A young Duncan Keith style Dman who can do it all.  Better than Chychrun overall.

 

We need that #1 LD so bad... the Sens might have another one in Jake Sanderson so they could spare Chabot to re-unite the Tkachuk brothers.  That would be such a great story in OTT.  Maybe younger brother gives up the "C" to big brother?  OR would Matthew be happy being "A"??  That's the only issue I see there.

 

As for us, our D gets solidified with,

Chabot - Andersson 

Hanifin - Tanev

 

In a perfect world we add Hanifin to the trade to get more from OTT and then sign Zadorov to pair with Tanev.

[travel_dude]

38 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Tkachuk for Chabot is a trade I think we should try to initiate with the Sens.  I doubt we get Chabot+ though.  Chabot is a legit stud.  A young Duncan Keith style Dman who can do it all.  Better than Chychrun overall.

 

We need that #1 LD so bad... the Sens might have another one in Jake Sanderson so they could spare Chabot to re-unite the Tkachuk brothers.  That would be such a great story in OTT.  Maybe younger brother gives up the "C" to big brother?  OR would Matthew be happy being "A"??  That's the only issue I see there.

 

As for us, our D gets solidified with,

Chabot - Andersson 

Hanifin - Tanev

 

In a perfect world we add Hanifin to the trade to get more from OTT and then sign Zadorov to pair with Tanev.

 

I don't get the love affair with Zaddy.  He was good for us in a sheltered role.  He wasn't great in an expanded role.  Don't get me wong, I would love to bring him back.  Him and Guddy made players crap their pants.  Maybe this doesn't cut it, but I would only do Monahan + Hanifin for Chabot.  Maybe add a pick or prospect.  Losing Tkachuk and only getting a stud D-man doesn't help us.  Enough.  We lose 40 goals.  We get back the equivalen scoring as Hanifin.  

[The_People1]

46 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't get the love affair with Zaddy.  He was good for us in a sheltered role.  He wasn't great in an expanded role.  Don't get me wong, I would love to bring him back.  Him and Guddy made players crap their pants.  Maybe this doesn't cut it, but I would only do Monahan + Hanifin for Chabot.  Maybe add a pick or prospect.  Losing Tkachuk and only getting a stud D-man doesn't help us.  Enough.  We lose 40 goals.  We get back the equivalen scoring as Hanifin.  

 

Zadorov came to play in the playoffs.  Broken ribs and all.  He was a warrior.

 

If OTT trades Chabot then OTT will want Hanifin to help shelter Jake Sanderson and buy him time.  We don't need Hanifin because Chabot takes his spot and minutes.  Then we turn around to sign Zadorov without giving up any assets.  It comes down to Kylington vs Zadorov pairing with Tanev and I'm going with Zadorov.  It's a toss up there and you can argue either way.  Zadorov brings more physicality that we need in the playoffs.

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Tkachuk for Chabot is a trade I think we should try to initiate with the Sens.  I doubt we get Chabot+ though.  Chabot is a legit stud.  A young Duncan Keith style Dman who can do it all.  Better than Chychrun overall.

 

We need that #1 LD so bad... the Sens might have another one in Jake Sanderson so they could spare Chabot to re-unite the Tkachuk brothers.  That would be such a great story in OTT.  Maybe younger brother gives up the "C" to big brother?  OR would Matthew be happy being "A"??  That's the only issue I see there.

 

As for us, our D gets solidified with,

Chabot - Andersson 

Hanifin - Tanev

 

In a perfect world we add Hanifin to the trade to get more from OTT and then sign Zadorov to pair with Tanev.

what if you went Tkachuk for Sanderson and something else intriguing? If Sanderson could be that, it’s a gamble but might be good to find an extra piece out of a deal like that. 

[The_People1]

15 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

what if you went Tkachuk for Sanderson and something else intriguing? If Sanderson could be that, it’s a gamble but might be good to find an extra piece out of a deal like that. 

 

I don't think we want to take that chance because it's a win-now trade for us.  As long as Gaudreau is back, and we add Chabot as a #1 LD, then the loss of Tkachuk should be balanced by the gain of Chabot.  We should be a contender again.

 

Sanderson fits the Sens timeline being the Sens are a bit younger overall.  Sanderson also is said to have a higher ceiling than Chabot so its a gamble the Sens should take.  We shouldn't take that gamble.  We are contenders since yesterday.  The Sens will be legit Cup contenders in about 3 years.

 

Again, they would want Hanifin to help them fill a gap to bridge to Sanderson as their #1.  Meanwhile, we can just bring back Kylington for a Kylington-Tanev 2nd pair... or go Zadorov - Tanev second pair.  Chabot will play 25+ minutes for us and play a big role in all situations.