GDT - Knights @ FLAMES Thurs 14 April 2022

[The_People1]

15 hours ago, cross16 said:

I think there is some truth to this but I think this result was happening even without the hit. From the drop of the puck the flames just were not focused on defense or details in transition. Lots of soft checking, poor puck management up the ice, losing checks in the D zone and really the one reason it looked like a close game was the flames were moving the puck well in the offensive zone. Once it left that zone they were terrible. Markstrom was the only reason it wasn’t a 2 or 3-1 score after the first. 
Flames weren’t very good from the drop of the puck last night. Just took a little while for Vegas to exploit it. 
 

flames better take this as a wake up call or else trouble will start brewing. 

 

My biggest concern is secondary scoring.

 

- Mangiapane is fading down the stretch

- Toffoli's honeymoon period is over

 

So out of nowhere Hanifin decides to come alive.  Stone using his big shot on the PP has worked.  Perfect, we getting secondary scoring from our blueline.  But how long can this last?  I doubt this offense from out D is sustainable.  Stone may not even be a starter when the playoffs begin.

 

We need secondary forwards to get hot right now, whether it's Backlund, Dube, Mangiapane, Toffoli, or whoever.  

[cross16]

10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

My biggest concern is secondary scoring.

 

- Mangiapane is fading down the stretch

- Toffoli's honeymoon period is over

 

So out of nowhere Hanifin decides to come alive.  Stone using his big shot on the PP has worked.  Perfect, we getting secondary scoring from our blueline.  But how long can this last?  I doubt this offense from out D is sustainable.  Stone may not even be a starter when the playoffs begin.

 

We need secondary forwards to get hot right now, whether it's Backlund, Dube, Mangiapane, Toffoli, or whoever.  

Part of this is they need to figure out Jankroks role. I think they will have a hard time slotting the middle 6 until they do. 

[LouCifer]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

My biggest concern is secondary scoring.

 

- Mangiapane is fading down the stretch

- Toffoli's honeymoon period is over

 

So out of nowhere Hanifin decides to come alive.  Stone using his big shot on the PP has worked.  Perfect, we getting secondary scoring from our blueline.  But how long can this last?  I doubt this offense from out D is sustainable.  Stone may not even be a starter when the playoffs begin.

 

We need secondary forwards to get hot right now, whether it's Backlund, Dube, Mangiapane, Toffoli, or whoever.  

Here here. That’s why having both Mange and Toff with Backlund is a bust. Also, loading up our top line essentially makes every other line take a hit. Without listing line combos, I think there are some pairings that could work together if given the opportunity to close out the season.  
 

1. Chucky likes to throw passes into the slot area all the time - mostly without looking, but the puck gets there. 2 players he’s currently not playing with that tend to park in front of the net or just off to the side of it: Mange and Toff. The C can be debated, but Chucky with one of those 2 players could create some secondary scoring and wreak extra havoc in the high danger areas in the offensive zone. I believe Mange - Backs - Chucky have been a line in the past that’s had success and their Corsi always was on the positive side of things. Could be worth a reunion trial.
 

2. Lindy and Johnny are both dynamic players who can score AND make smart plays. They are good together, and will positively impact whatever winger plays with them (look at Chucky’s stats this season). Lindy has scored maybe 30 of his goals this year using the same play where the pass goes down low and then into the high slot where Lindy shoots from. Teams will no doubt be looking to defend this, especially in the playoffs. This is where Toff comes in. Opposing teams can’t leave Toff alone and double-cover Lindy. It opens space for all 3 players by spreading out the defensive coverage of the opposing team. 
 

3. Dube. I’ve got a feeling if we can get the right players to play with him, he’s going to be a force for us. I think he and Coleman could potentially make up 2 significant parts of that third line that Tampon Bay used to get 2 cups. The third piece? It would have to be one of Jarnkrok or Ruzie. I haven’t seen Jarnkrok get his bearings yet with us, but I do believe it’s just a matter of time and reps. 
 

* An out of the box thought:

Mange - Dube - Toffoli

Jarnkrok - Backlund - Coleman

[travel_dude]

^^^^

I really wonder about the lines.  I don't see any real time to work on new combos.  

Backlund has really dropped off, not the usual defensive accumen, not scoring.

If we return to Mange and Toffee with him, we may not see any better results.

Tkachuk has been bad for a few games, even when he's scoring.

It's almost like he scores to take the heat off his otherwise crappy game.

Maybe I am a bit hard on the player.

You may have something about reuniting the original MMA line.

That puts Toffee on the top line.

Maybe have Toffee head to the net instead of Lindy.

 

The 3rd line needs a bit of work, with Dube going to the middle and Jarn to RW.

 

I am willing to give a bit of time to a Bread on top line though.

Just consider who plays best with Matty and Backlund.

No need to use Toffee there, you can use a LW instead.

 

[sak22]

Mange's season has been feast or famine so far.  15 goals in 22 games in October-November, 4 in 18 in December-January, 8 in 11 in February and now 4 in 23 since.  I think its the reality of player like him and Toffoli, score in spurts and disappear in spurts, it amplifies because that has been much of Backlund's career as well.  I feel they will turn the corner and figure Mange will be due for a big May.

[robrob74]

I really think they need to split up Mangiapane and Toffoli. They both shoot. 
 

i dunno if you split the top line up?

 

Mangiapane, Dube, Jarnkrok

Coleman, Backlund, Toffoli

 

Jarnkrok can help Dube with strong side draws, and be defensively responsible for the line. I get afraid they’ll get pushed around though. Both Mangiapane and Dube are hard workers but both don’t always stay on their feet. But maybe play fast and make room?

 

I’d try:

 

Gaudreau, Lindholm, Toffoli 

Mangiapane, Backlund, Tkachuk

Coleman, Dube, Jarnkrok

Lucic, Ruzicka, Lewis

 

i think Toffoli and Mangiapane are too similar. They kind of both play with the puck and make their own room. Can switch Dube and Jarnkrok in these last ideas. 

[pikey7883]

I have went back and forth with lines, usually with @travel_dude. But I’m kind of coming back to leaving the top line together, because they’ve been so lethal. 
That means figuring out the bottom 9.

One line I would like to see is

Mang - Dube - Coleman (lots of speed, lots of aggression, I don’t know if I call it the 2nd line or 3rd line, minutes wise?) 

Makes the other two lines for me harder to figure out.

Can Toff play on the off wing with Backs and Calle? 
Then Looch and Lewis lead the pack with Ruzie in the middle? If it could work I would rather have Ruzie between Toff and Calle. 

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

Part of this is they need to figure out Jankroks role. I think they will have a hard time slotting the middle 6 until they do. 

 

Jarnkrok is a poor man's Backlund in my opinion.  What do you think?  I think he's strictly 3rd/4th line Center.  The scoring touch isn't elite but the rest of the game is good because it's supported by great skating and energy.

 

Can he play top 6?

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Jarnkrok is a poor man's Backlund in my opinion.  What do you think?  I think he's strictly 3rd/4th line Center.  The scoring touch isn't elite but the rest of the game is good because it's supported by great skating and energy.

 

Can he play top 6?

If you don't mind me chiming in...the whole problem with tdl is transition time. It takes a long time on average, even for Toffoli paying immediate dividends. It takes a while.

Look at Reinhart in Fla, he was up and down like a whore's drawers with his play for 40 games, now he;s right in there. Then look at Giroux, he's been okay, they still would have won 9 in a row without him.

Bennett, same. Look great sometimes, but up and down.

Jarnkrok is maybe mid-6, I don't know his life situation, but you're packing up your life because you've been traded, from Nashville to Seattle to Calgary in <1yr.

I get they're pros and have jobs, but it's very unsettling to your personal life.

 

 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

If you don't mind me chiming in...the whole problem with tdl is transition time. It takes a long time on average, even for Toffoli paying immediate dividends. It takes a while.

Look at Reinhart in Fla, he was up and down like a whore's drawers with his play for 40 games, now he;s right in there. Then look at Giroux, he's been okay, they still would have won 9 in a row without him.

Bennett, same. Look great sometimes, but up and down.

Jarnkrok is maybe mid-6, I don't know his life situation, but you're packing up your life because you've been traded, from Nashville to Seattle to Calgary in <1yr.

I get they're pros and have jobs, but it's very unsettling to your personal life.

 

 

 

If we can re-sign him for a decent price we should.

Not enough priactice to get him used to it.

He could prove his value more in the playoffs,

He seems to win a few draws, so we need that.

It might make some sense to use him with Backlund.

Backlund gets tossed and average of 4 times per game (estimate).

We could use the extra wins on the dot.

Maybe save Dube for the 3C spot.

Ruzie at 4C.

 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

If you don't mind me chiming in...the whole problem with tdl is transition time. It takes a long time on average, even for Toffoli paying immediate dividends. It takes a while.

Look at Reinhart in Fla, he was up and down like a whore's drawers with his play for 40 games, now he;s right in there. Then look at Giroux, he's been okay, they still would have won 9 in a row without him.

Bennett, same. Look great sometimes, but up and down.

Jarnkrok is maybe mid-6, I don't know his life situation, but you're packing up your life because you've been traded, from Nashville to Seattle to Calgary in <1yr.

I get they're pros and have jobs, but it's very unsettling to your personal life.

 

Jarnkrok doesn't show high IQ though and his skillset is limit to his speed only.  His shot seems regular and nothing to write home about.  His passing/vision is only average.  He appears to be a "work hard and get rewarded" kind of player.  I don't see him as a guy who will generate offensive chances on a consistent basis.

[cross16]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Jarnkrok is a poor man's Backlund in my opinion.  What do you think?  I think he's strictly 3rd/4th line Center.  The scoring touch isn't elite but the rest of the game is good because it's supported by great skating and energy.

 

Can he play top 6?

I don’t think the flames have a 1-2-3-4 line structures team. They have a top line, a middle 6 and a 4th line and the decision canes down to deployment and situations more than a lines label. I do agree that Backlund is the better center but that cuts both ways in that he is better offensively but j also think he is the better shutdown center too. I do think Jankrok is good enough to be deployed in a more offensive middle 6 role, with the right line, and keep Backlund as the shut down center. That’s the choice I think the flames need to make.