Reasons Not to Blow It Up

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

What I think needs to happen is a new thread like, "The Hive of Doom", that you folks could hang out in.

There are enough of you. Come tell us that you told us so occasionally.

We'd love that.

 

Would we be able to talk mostly about Eichel, like we do on every other thread here including Defence and Goaltending?

[sak22]

13 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Would we be able to talk mostly about Eichel, like we do on every other thread here including Defence and Goaltending?

No that can be a thread for going on and on about the Hamilton/Fox trade, which every other thread also turns into

[robrob74]

7 hours ago, sak22 said:

But the team isn't doing that, so why not have belief that the team can still do it without tanking?  There is still so much to lose from tanking from this point. 

In both scenarios, they kind of go hand in hand. You can’t say tank is not a guarantee then flaunt a drafting record, and then say we will end up like the Oilers. That’s being hypocritical. Because if you believe that the drafting is good, then drafting will be good in a rebuild situation too.
 

but in the end, I don’t have faith that we will ever find that player with depth picks. It is possible. But how often have we found an Aho, Datsyuk, point, Benn, Josi, or Kucherov. We have done it once in Johnny. We got two very good first rounders in Monahan and Tkachuk. Still no elites. Gaudreau is the best pick of any depth picks we’ve had since Theo. We are drafting better, sure! But we aren’t drafting difference makers when it counts, yet. Maybe we have and they’re just not getting to the opportunity to do that yet. Some too young when we were there, or just not the right mix. Maybe That’s because the team building isn’t complete yet?

[MP5029]

I’m of the mind set:

 

1. reason to not blow it up, is ROI is low, play out to TDL then evaluate.

 

2. if Cgy is on the fringes either just barely in or out…call it and move out our 30+ players and also most (not all) 25-30 year old players…nab as many 1st round picks as you can for 2022 and 2023 rebuild in a super deep and talented back to back drafts  

[sak22]

55 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

In both scenarios, they kind of go hand in hand. You can’t say tank is not a guarantee then flaunt a drafting record, and then say we will end up like the Oilers. That’s being hypocritical. Because if you believe that the drafting is good, then drafting will be good in a rebuild situation too.
 

but in the end, I don’t have faith that we will ever find that player with depth picks. It is possible. But how often have we found an Aho, Datsyuk, point, Benn, Josi, or Kucherov. We have done it once in Johnny. We got two very good first rounders in Monahan and Tkachuk. Still no elites. Gaudreau is the best pick of any depth picks we’ve had since Theo. We are drafting better, sure! But we aren’t drafting difference makers when it counts, yet. Maybe we have and they’re just not getting to the opportunity to do that yet. Some too young when we were there, or just not the right mix. Maybe That’s because the team building isn’t complete yet?

I don't know if I've "flaunted" a drafting record, I call it what it is average others make it sound like it is the worst in the league.  For me it's not just the tanking, as it was said you still need the other picks to turn out.  You need a quality coach, and good signings.  Well Sutter isn't going for a tank and the history for coaches doesn't inspire any confidence in me, nor do I believe a mediocre free agency record will automatically change.   Edmonton has gone with higher level head coaches and haven't been able to lure quality free agents, which I would only say Calgary has been marginally better.  

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

In both scenarios, they kind of go hand in hand. You can’t say tank is not a guarantee then flaunt a drafting record, and then say we will end up like the Oilers. That’s being hypocritical. Because if you believe that the drafting is good, then drafting will be good in a rebuild situation too.
 

but in the end, I don’t have faith that we will ever find that player with depth picks. It is possible. But how often have we found an Aho, Datsyuk, point, Benn, Josi, or Kucherov. We have done it once in Johnny. We got two very good first rounders in Monahan and Tkachuk. Still no elites. Gaudreau is the best pick of any depth picks we’ve had since Theo. We are drafting better, sure! But we aren’t drafting difference makers when it counts, yet. Maybe we have and they’re just not getting to the opportunity to do that yet. Some too young when we were there, or just not the right mix. Maybe That’s because the team building isn’t complete yet?

 

We have Mangiapane and Dube that could be big surprises to a lot here.

They so rarely are ralked about as elite players because they don't play top minutes and aren't McDavid.

Ras had a down year, but is potentially a top2 player.

Valimaki is one to watch for with the right coach; he has the talent but needs to have the trust to use it.

We have three recent 1st rounders that could really be something.

One is a possible Johnny in the making, but we need to see his transition first.

Another is a pure sniper.

Another is a pretty darn good 2-way C.

 

Very seldom do you hit on an elite player.

Most of the teams in the NHL have not yet.

 

[tmac70]

10 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

Ah but putting the blame on Tre is where imho I think you and JJ are wrong.

 

The blame lies higher up!!

You may very well be correct, as micro management never creates a postive result or work enviroment. 

[tmac70]

10 hours ago, conundrumed said:

What I think needs to happen is a new thread like, "The Hive of Doom", that you folks could hang out in.

There are enough of you. Come tell us that you told us so occasionally.

We'd love that.

Ahhh, so those who disagree or vary in opinion should have no say 

[The_People1]

On 9/14/2021 at 4:35 PM, sak22 said:

Never won because of him.

 

But never won again without him.

 

15 hours ago, sak22 said:

But the team isn't doing that, so why not have belief that the team can still do it without tanking?  There is still so much to lose from tanking from this point. 

 

Good question.

 

1. I DO believe we can win without tanking.  As I have been saying the past few weeks, get Eichel as a first step (not as the saviour and solution alone)... but it's a first step.  Get that game breaking #1 Center and then build from there.  Furthermore, since 2010, no team that draft in the top 2 has won the Cup... I know COL, FLA, etc have a good chance so we will see.  But generally speaking, the trend used to be that you must have a top 2 pick... eventually, probably not.  With expansion and the salary cap maturing across the league, there are reasons to believe the game has changed.

 

2. Because the 2022 and 2023 drafts are loaded.  So it's about timing.

 

3. Theology.  Mathematics.  Probability.  Even if a team does everything right, it's a 1/32 chance to win now.  You need every edge you can get.

[sak22]

10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

But never won again without him.

 

 

Good question.

 

1. I DO believe we can win without tanking.  As I have been saying the past few weeks, get Eichel as a first step (not as the saviour and solution alone)... but it's a first step.  Get that game breaking #1 Center and then build from there.  Furthermore, since 2010, no team that draft in the top 2 has won the Cup... I know COL, FLA, etc have a good chance so we will see.  But generally speaking, the trend used to be that you must have a top 2 pick... eventually, probably not.  With expansion and the salary cap maturing across the league, there are reasons to believe the game has changed.

 

2. Because the 2022 and 2023 drafts are loaded.  So it's about timing.

 

3. Theology.  Mathematics.  Probability.  Even if a team does everything right, it's a 1/32 chance to win now.  You need every edge you can get.

Other drafts were supposedly loaded.  2005 and 2013 come to mind that were quite underwhelming overall, so I hear about these classes which feature kids who've lost a lot of playing time due to COVID, I do become skeptical of how good they will be.  But even in good drafts there are duds.  But overall I'm just a live in the moment kind of guy, I would rather watch an up and down season that ends in disappointment vs. a completely down season that maybe gives hope for 5 years from now, I'm choosing the now route because I can be dead in 5 years.  

[Horsman1]

19 hours ago, robrob74 said:

In both scenarios, they kind of go hand in hand. You can’t say tank is not a guarantee then flaunt a drafting record, and then say we will end up like the Oilers. That’s being hypocritical. Because if you believe that the drafting is good, then drafting will be good in a rebuild situation too.
 

but in the end, I don’t have faith that we will ever find that player with depth picks. It is possible. But how often have we found an Aho, Datsyuk, point, Benn, Josi, or Kucherov. We have done it once in Johnny. We got two very good first rounders in Monahan and Tkachuk. Still no elites. Gaudreau is the best pick of any depth picks we’ve had since Theo. We are drafting better, sure! But we aren’t drafting difference makers when it counts, yet. Maybe we have and they’re just not getting to the opportunity to do that yet. Some too young when we were there, or just not the right mix. Maybe That’s because the team building isn’t complete yet?

maybe we are.. Maybe our deveopment is the issue and not drafting.. We currently have Corranado./Zary/Pelletier/Wolf as  well as some untamed europeans in the stable .. That's not too shabby.. Let's see what becomes of them

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, sak22 said:

Other drafts were supposedly loaded.  2005 and 2013 come to mind that were quite underwhelming overall, so I hear about these classes which feature kids who've lost a lot of playing time due to COVID, I do become skeptical of how good they will be.  But even in good drafts there are duds.  But overall I'm just a live in the moment kind of guy, I would rather watch an up and down season that ends in disappointment vs. a completely down season that maybe gives hope for 5 years from now, I'm choosing the now route because I can be dead in 5 years.  

 

So it's critical we get Eichel or an equivalent soon.  If we return the same core, then we should expect the same results.  At some point, life is too short to keep watching the same thing over and over again.

[conundrumed]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

So it's critical we get Eichel or an equivalent soon.  If we return the same core, then we should expect the same results.  At some point, life is too short to keep watching the same thing over and over again.

There's been some talk that Zary may have been last year's steal at 24oa. Let's hope that trend continues. Pelletier will undoubtedly be an NHLer, just a question of how high he can slot. Hopefully they'll be our 1 st line in the A this year and get the chemistry working. Poirier and Kinvall are interesting D prospects. Hopefully things go well. And of course JJ, let's not forget your guy has the potential to be a weapon.

All is not lost.

[travel_dude]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

There's been some talk that Zary may have been last year's steal at 24oa. Let's hope that trend continues. Pelletier will undoubtedly be an NHLer, just a question of how high he can slot. Hopefully they'll be our 1 st line in the A this year and get the chemistry working. Poirier and Kinvall are interesting D prospects. Hopefully things go well. And of course JJ, let's not forget your guy has the potential to be a weapon.

All is not lost.

 

Kinnvall is someone that could really surprise.  Been tolling away in the SHL for some time now.

Decent offensive numbers so far.

A little suspect on the D side, but the Heat coaches should be able to round him out.

At 24, he's reaching the time he should play in the NHL, though I won't project him there....yet.

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

There's been some talk that Zary may have been last year's steal at 24oa. Let's hope that trend continues. Pelletier will undoubtedly be an NHLer, just a question of how high he can slot. Hopefully they'll be our 1 st line in the A this year and get the chemistry working. Poirier and Kinvall are interesting D prospects. Hopefully things go well. And of course JJ, let's not forget your guy has the potential to be a weapon.

All is not lost.

 

Did Zary play again after his concussion?

[conundrumed]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Did Zary play again after his concussion?

His at camp now. Vs the Oilers rookies tonight.

[conundrumed]

Zary with Zavgorodniy and Pospisil.

 

And Pelletier with Duehr and Francis.

[The_People1]

8 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

His at camp now. Vs the Oilers rookies tonight.

 

How to watch?

[conundrumed]

Good question!?

[conundrumed]

Sorry, games tomorrow and Monday

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

How to watch?

Apparently streaming live on the Oilers site. I'd assume this site too....but I have a 2 day beach party to attend and jam at.😭

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Apparently streaming live on the Oilers site. I'd assume this site too....but I have a 2 day beach party to attend and jam at.😭

 

Where to stream this party?

[robrob74]

On 9/16/2021 at 9:45 AM, sak22 said:

Other drafts were supposedly loaded.  2005 and 2013 come to mind that were quite underwhelming overall, so I hear about these classes which feature kids who've lost a lot of playing time due to COVID, I do become skeptical of how good they will be.  But even in good drafts there are duds.  But overall I'm just a live in the moment kind of guy, I would rather watch an up and down season that ends in disappointment vs. a completely down season that maybe gives hope for 5 years from now, I'm choosing the now route because I can be dead in 5 years.  

 

I can agree with that if the team gave an honest effort almost every game. I get games have ebbs and flows but when they hardly show up it’s tough to watch. And I think this is my biggest Problem With this group so far. And I mean The core because they’re the most common denominator. 

[conundrumed]

10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Where to stream this party?

No mask counting evidence😂