travel_dude Posted June 8, 2021 Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 Back to the draft. Would you be okay in drafting Coronado? 5'10" buzzsaw, stocky kid. Plays in the USHL then going to Harvard. Rated about 20's in the draft. Definitely a player I would like to have an extra pick for, just not sure about #12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 8, 2021 Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 2 hours ago, travel_dude said: Back to the draft. Would you be okay in drafting Coronado? 5'10" buzzsaw, stocky kid. Plays in the USHL then going to Harvard. Rated about 20's in the draft. Definitely a player I would like to have an extra pick for, just not sure about #12. I guess that's where maybe you get a good player plus a first rounder for someone like Monahan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted June 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 hours ago, travel_dude said: Back to the draft. Would you be okay in drafting Coronado? 5'10" buzzsaw, stocky kid. Plays in the USHL then going to Harvard. Rated about 20's in the draft. Definitely a player I would like to have an extra pick for, just not sure about #12. I'd be happy if they picked Coranto. Only issue would be Harvard. Best case scenario you get him to leave school after his junior year, 3 seasons. Not often Ivy league kids leave earlier than that. If you took Chaz Lucius though, he's committed to Minnesota, he may be ready to sign by next April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 4 hours ago, travel_dude said: Back to the draft. Would you be okay in drafting Coronado? 5'10" buzzsaw, stocky kid. Plays in the USHL then going to Harvard. Rated about 20's in the draft. Definitely a player I would like to have an extra pick for, just not sure about #12. I've had my eye on Coronato and he is way under-rated. I wouldn't pick him at 12, and the only reason is his size and lack of demonstration outside of the ushl. But none of those are concerns really. He's short and stocky and those guys can translate well to the NHL. You know how I feel about what we need... defensemen and goalies. So a player has to be pretty under-rated for me to ignore that, and I think Coronato is. By the way his Linemate, Josh Doan, is an over-ager we should be looking at too imho. When people say this is a weak draft and then you look at some of the players available, even late in the first round, I am mind blown. Coronato is off the charts good. Granted he's on a very good team and a very good line. That entire line has a good shot at seeing NHL time and more. But he's the best of them at this stage. I would Love to get someone like Wallstedt with our 12th, and then pick up this guy a few spots later. So many teams dismiss this draft, I think there are picks on the cheap. So here's some thing you may not like, but.... Pelletier (or Zary). Could we trade Pelletier for a first? I think so. And draft Coronato? I think so. And if we miss him there are 3-4 more phenomenal defencemen available plus Cossa. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather sell an older player too if we could. Or....several Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said: I'd be happy if they picked Coranto. Only issue would be Harvard. Best case scenario you get him to leave school after his junior year, 3 seasons. Not often Ivy league kids leave earlier than that. If you took Chaz Lucius though, he's committed to Minnesota, he may be ready to sign by next April. 13 hours ago, jjgallow said: I've had my eye on Coronato and he is way under-rated. I wouldn't pick him at 12, and the only reason is his size and lack of demonstration outside of the ushl. But none of those are concerns really. He's short and stocky and those guys can translate well to the NHL. You know how I feel about what we need... defensemen and goalies. So a player has to be pretty under-rated for me to ignore that, and I think Coronato is. First, I have no concerns about the Harvard thing. Free development. 3 years there he is NHL ready, as opposed to a WHL kid that have 2-3 years left in junior and AHL. I would say there are very few that will play post-draft or draft + 1 in the NHL. I think we get so hung up on CHL and good Canadian kids. A reach at 12 maybe, but what are we really trying to do here. Draft safe players? Draft the guy with the highest ceiling? BPA? It's a tough year to properly evaluate, but I will say we will most likely regret not drafting him in 3 years times. A plethora of D available, lots of interesting guys that have dropped. Better to have another pick in the teens or early 20's. Wouldn't trade Pelletier at this point. I don't think he gets you a 1st, so why bother. See what he translates into. Could be in the same mold as Mangiapane. Smaller guy with a strong work ethic. Don't need less of that type, just less guys that give up when the going gets tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: First, I have no concerns about the Harvard thing. Free development. 3 years there he is NHL ready, as opposed to a WHL kid that have 2-3 years left in junior and AHL. I would say there are very few that will play post-draft or draft + 1 in the NHL. I think we get so hung up on CHL and good Canadian kids. A reach at 12 maybe, but what are we really trying to do here. Draft safe players? Draft the guy with the highest ceiling? BPA? It's a tough year to properly evaluate, but I will say we will most likely regret not drafting him in 3 years times. A plethora of D available, lots of interesting guys that have dropped. Better to have another pick in the teens or early 20's. Wouldn't trade Pelletier at this point. I don't think he gets you a 1st, so why bother. See what he translates into. Could be in the same mold as Mangiapane. Smaller guy with a strong work ethic. Don't need less of that type, just less guys that give up when the going gets tough. I have concerns about BT, but not the Harvard thing. Could BT mess it up and leave us with nothing? Oh yeah. We know that. But in theory, if we draft a US forward this good (fowards develop faster) and they don't join after 3 years, you likely trade them to an appropriate team. Like, right away. You don't think Pelletier could fetch a first? I thought so. If not, then, yeah. I just feel like Pelletier has some good numbers right now and quite honestly everyone dismisses this draft. Plus teams don't want to wait. Pelletier is probably sooner to help a team. Even Zary is. Anyway, doesn't matter, agreed. Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, there's not a lot I wouldn't consider trading. I kind of want to keep Tkachuk but even then I wouldn't die on that hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, jjgallow said: I have concerns about BT, but not the Harvard thing. Could BT mess it up and leave us with nothing? Oh yeah. We know that. But in theory, if we draft a US forward this good (fowards develop faster) and they don't join after 3 years, you likely trade them to an appropriate team. Like, right away. You don't think Pelletier could fetch a first? I thought so. If not, then, yeah. I just feel like Pelletier has some good numbers right now and quite honestly everyone dismisses this draft. Plus teams don't want to wait. Pelletier is probably sooner to help a team. Even Zary is. Anyway, doesn't matter, agreed. Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, there's not a lot I wouldn't consider trading. I kind of want to keep Tkachuk but even then I wouldn't die on that hill. Never say never, but I just don't think enough teams have 1st rounders to trade for prospects. a 12th + Pelletier or Zary moves you up no doubt. But, here is where I am at with trades. Why are you trading a top prospect for a chance at another potential top prospect? How is that any better than trading a pick for a player? You want to trade Gio for a 1st? No problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 36 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Never say never, but I just don't think enough teams have 1st rounders to trade for prospects. a 12th + Pelletier or Zary moves you up no doubt. But, here is where I am at with trades. Why are you trading a top prospect for a chance at another potential top prospect? How is that any better than trading a pick for a player? You want to trade Gio for a 1st? No problem. Maybe the prospects youre offering dont fit the style of the new coach? The prospect pool isnt really loaded with Sutteresque type players. No doubt the talent is there but the package is small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 minute ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said: Maybe the prospects youre offering dont fit the style of the new coach? The prospect pool isnt really loaded with Sutteresque type players. No doubt the talent is there but the package is small. Gaudreau doesn't fit. Mangiapane doesn't fit. At least by the LA Kings standard of Sutter players. I do think Sutter is not a fool. He wants a player, no matter what size, to buy into playing 100% every game. He called out Gaudreau the one game where he took a big hit and shied away from play after that. Since that time, I think Gaudreau has been exactly what Sutter wants from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 44 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said: Maybe the prospects youre offering dont fit the style of the new coach? The prospect pool isnt really loaded with Sutteresque type players. No doubt the talent is there but the package is small. Good. We've seen how that movie plays out. In all seriousness though, Sutter deserves a bit more credit than this. I think he is fine with players who are talented but on the small side as long as they are in his top 6. Remember he acquired Huselius, Langkow and Tanguay as the GM. I thikn he, like amost everyone, will take the combination of size and skill if you can get it but I think in certain places he will sacrifice the size for the skill. The bottom 6 and on D is a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: Never say never, but I just don't think enough teams have 1st rounders to trade for prospects. a 12th + Pelletier or Zary moves you up no doubt. But, here is where I am at with trades. Why are you trading a top prospect for a chance at another potential top prospect? How is that any better than trading a pick for a player? You want to trade Gio for a 1st? No problem. Yeah I'd be okay with moving up too. I just feel this draft is quite under-rated and when you go digging you find diamonds. So it would be great to leverage that with teams who are less excited. Plus it's a good time for us. I know it won't happen so it won't matter, but you can only have some many LWers. Yeah, I'd prefer to see a Gaudreau trade. For sures. Although I'd expect more of a return from that than a late first rounder. Prospects wouldn't be my first choice. But even there we seem to just be collecting Left wingers, like more than we can handle lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 hours ago, cross16 said: Good. We've seen how that movie plays out. In all seriousness though, Sutter deserves a bit more credit than this. I think he is fine with players who are talented but on the small side as long as they are in his top 6. Remember he acquired Huselius, Langkow and Tanguay as the GM. I thikn he, like amost everyone, will take the combination of size and skill if you can get it but I think in certain places he will sacrifice the size for the skill. The bottom 6 and on D is a different story. You mean with Stanley cups in '12 and '14? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said: You mean with Stanley cups in '12 and '14? No, 04-2010 when the Flames were full of Sutter type prospects that produced very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 Regardless of Sutter or not, I think the Flames need more grit and muscles. When watching these playoff series and how dirty some of these hits are, I really doubt we have the kind of sandpaper needed to go deep in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Regardless of Sutter or not, I think the Flames need more grit and muscles. When watching these playoff series and how dirty some of these hits are, I really doubt we have the kind of sandpaper needed to go deep in the playoffs. We haven't been good at identifying those players in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, travel_dude said: We haven't been good at identifying those players in FA. Both Brouwer and Neal both came with too much mileage on their motors. Their drive was dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 4 hours ago, travel_dude said: We haven't been good at identifying those players in FA. Or the draft. Before people chirp in with the "only draft small guys", there was still Smith, Carroll, Karnauhkov, Tuulola, Mattson, Joly, Ruzicka, and Pospisil who had/have good size, there is only one I feel can fit the bottom 6 grit department and he can't stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 28 minutes ago, sak22 said: Or the draft. Before people chirp in with the "only draft small guys", there was still Smith, Carroll, Karnauhkov, Tuulola, Mattson, Joly, Ruzicka, and Pospisil who had/have good size, there is only one I feel can fit the bottom 6 grit department and he can't stay healthy. After watching the jets/Habs series and seeing how Montreal always had someone in Hellys face (usually Perry) made me realize a couple things. At least one meaner physical d-man is needed to keep people honest in front of the net. Second if Chucky isnt going to be Chucky anymore then he'll need to be replaced with someone else to make opposing goalies miserable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 6 hours ago, cross16 said: No, 04-2010 when the Flames were full of Sutter type prospects that produced very little. The picks since then havent really been showstoppers either so its a moot point at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 7 hours ago, The_People1 said: Regardless of Sutter or not, I think the Flames need more grit and muscles. When watching these playoff series and how dirty some of these hits are, I really doubt we have the kind of sandpaper needed to go deep in the playoffs. I feel this was a big problem a few years ago when the playoffs were a possibility for the Flames. And to be honest, as much as I advocate for trading Gaudreau I don't necessarily believe it's just him. On a team with the right combination of grit, things could be a little different. Also, I think there's a sort of tipping point in terms of talent. When you have enough talent, you can rest guys, you can manage their minutes, you can ask more from them physically over shorter periods of time (in the playoffs). We were making the playoffs with all our talent going flat out and playing injured in the regular season. The case study on this is Monahan. This is a known soft player that has the ability to play hard and physical. Can actually play Iginla-hard, and we've seen that from him at certain points in his earlier healthier career. That's gone now, mismanaged. Aside from the poor management issue, simply put, IMHO we just weren't good enough. We didn't have that critical mass of talent. Nor did we have that critical mass lol. I do hope in our next rebuild, we keep at it until it's complete. I have no problems cheering for an underdog for 5 years as long as they're headed in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 8 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said: After watching the jets/Habs series and seeing how Montreal always had someone in Hellys face (usually Perry) made me realize a couple things. At least one meaner physical d-man is needed to keep people honest in front of the net. Second if Chucky isnt going to be Chucky anymore then he'll need to be replaced with someone else to make opposing goalies miserable. Total agree, but I’d suggest we need more than a replacement for Chucky we need two of that agitation type one in top six one in bottom 6. also, I’d love to replace Gio with a big mean physical D with some speed and passing skill...and add another with speed and shooting/scoring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 I don't think he's available (RFA with Chicago) but I'd like to get Zadorov on our backend for physicality and grit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, lou44291 said: I don't think he's available (RFA with Chicago) but I'd like to get Zadorov on our backend for physicality and grit. Agreed. But might take Monahan straight to get Zadorov and then his contract is probably $4.5-mil-per x 5-years. LHS LD crowds our depth chart even more. Giordano, Valimaki, and the others will need to be moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Agreed. But might take Monahan straight to get Zadorov and then his contract is probably $4.5-mil-per x 5-years. LHS LD crowds our depth chart even more. Giordano, Valimaki, and the others will need to be moved. I don't think it would take Monahan. Simple switch, Gio + Parsons for Zadorov. After the draft of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 14 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said: The picks since then havent really been showstoppers either so its a moot point at best. Under Sutter the Flames drafted 9 players who played 200 games or more in the NHL. It was 8 drafts with an avg of 7.4 picks/draft. Treliving already has 3 with another 3 that will hit that mark this season and 1 of them just got named a Norris Trophy finalist. 7 Drafts with an avg of 6.1 picks/draft. Hardly a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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