Calgary Flames 20/21 Roster and Lines

[travel_dude]

47 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Yes absolutely, this was very bad to let him play out so long...this team was done about 20 games ago we all knew it, I’d have shut Monahan down back then and sent him off to get surgery...short and crappy season they should have been planning for next season at the TDL and treated the walking wounded then.

 

this is really bad for 2 reasons, first hip surgery, is this his second one for that? I think it may be, which means it’s going to be a chronic issue, and if not he’s definitely injury prone ever 2-3 years so his over all value in terms of trade or if keeping him his effectiveness is much lower, either way a loose loose situation.

 

the other reason this is so bad, is he may never recover properly, it could be career ending or it could be a type thing where he’s never going to be the same player again...both are bad and more like than a 100% full recovery, the only thing is he’s young and in great shape so that helps the full recover odds some I’d say it’s 50/50’at best we see the same Monahan back, which sucks he’s a top player on any team...elite level in Cgy cause we lack elite level players here but either way he’s one of the best of his draft class period, this could be a huge issue for this team, especially where they failed to manage it properly.

 

I think previous one was wrist.

 

They seem to be talking like he will be 100% ready for next training camp.  That would include rehab.

If this was a longer standing issue they were treating, it makes sense they are dealing with it now.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

Looks like Flames are really valuing the wins in these last 4 games.

 

This lineup is just beyond silly at this point. Makes zero sense. If they go into the game with this i'm going to be pissed. 

 

 

 

I want to see what we have in Zagidulin.  Give him the next 4 games.  Markstrom is too tired anyways.

 

[travel_dude]

24 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I want to see what we have in Zagidulin.  Give him the next 4 games.  Markstrom is too tired anyways.

 

 

You give a guy like Big Snag Zag the chance, where he is fighting for his next contract, he's liable to get 4 shutouts.

Awesome story, but what would that even prove?

 

We are quite capable of losing to a team like Vancouver.

And after a loss, we will see worse players getting the call over young players.

 

[travel_dude]

I guess one good thing is that some of our young players are going to the WC.

Pettersen, Ruzicka (maybe), Dube, Mangiapane.

Think a few of those guys really need it.

The AHL was a gong show.

[The_Tribal Chief]

Monahan out for season Hip Surgury

[MP5029]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think previous one was wrist.

 

They seem to be talking like he will be 100% ready for next training camp.  That would include rehab.

If this was a longer standing issue they were treating, it makes sense they are dealing with it now.

According to Sutter it’s been several weeks so, they should have shut him down earlier, post season was a long shot weeks ago...poor management on asset here risking further injury on a long shot to make the playoffs, and it’s this mismanagement of assets why Bennett was nearly ruined completely, I’m not confident he well ever be the player he could have been due to Cgy poor development of him but least he’s on a team that will give him every chance to come close to the 4 OA pick potential he was.

 

it’s stuff like this why so many of us long time fans are getting so fed up with the same old mismanagement of the team and it’s assets...when will the owners and management wake up and focus on the here and now reality and stop with the pipe dreams? 

[MP5029]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I guess one good thing is that some of our young players are going to the WC.

Pettersen, Ruzicka (maybe), Dube, Mangiapane.

Think a few of those guys really need it.

The AHL was a gong show.

Lol as opposed to this years addition of Cgy in the NHL? That my friend has been far worse than a gong show...it was a 💩 show, and still seems to be going on trying to get wins now only hurts the team, and reduces some very valuable time for the younger guys to get a feel for the NHL, it may be only 4 games but still, pace and intensity is something they could get a feel for at an NHL level if they were to be played.

[travel_dude]

58 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Lol as opposed to this years addition of Cgy in the NHL? That my friend has been far worse than a gong show...it was a 💩 show, and still seems to be going on trying to get wins now only hurts the team, and reduces some very valuable time for the younger guys to get a feel for the NHL, it may be only 4 games but still, pace and intensity is something they could get a feel for at an NHL level if they were to be played.

 

There is no good reason to play Gio or Tanev.

Risking either of those players for nothing games is dumb as well.

Backlund should take an early vacation and head to Sweden.

One could argue he started that a few weeks back, lol.

 

You aren't going to fins (many?) any coaches that sign off on icing a watered down version of the team.

Sutter wouldn't do than no matter what the stakes.

 

The AHL season was a gong show.  Barely 2 months of play.

30 games for us, teams as low as 24 and as high as 41.

 

[cross16]

Don't really know why this just doesn't start tonight....

 

Don't like that Markstrom is starting either. Really wish the Flames would embrace that these games don't mean anything

 

 

[cross16]

Right.. but kids who can actually make a difference to the team fortunes next year (Dube, Valimaki, Ruzicka, Phillips) we don't really care about??

 

Approach makes no sense to me.

 

 

[travel_dude]

I understand why you might want to start Markstrom, but what difference does it make to him if he gets 3-4 shutouts?

Absolutely nothing.

Meaningless games against a team that is being held together by spit.

 

I can get behind giving Kylington the games, just have no idea what point there is for Nesterov.

TBH, even Stone, Gio and Tanev have no real need to play.

They have solidified their futures (Stone's 4 games are not going to do anything for BT to make an offer or not).

 

Ritchie and Norstrom?  Where is the need to play either of them?  We know what they are.

Even Backlund and Ryan are guys I would consider sitting.

Maybe a line of Mangiapane-Gadwin (or Ruzicka)-Dube would be something to see what they can do.

Or try out Dube at C.

Or get Phillips out there.

 

We draft guys that fit into the top 9 and play them on the 4th line, if they are lucky.

And there seems to be zero creativity in changing anything.

Gotta have Gio play 24 minutes.

Gotta use Ras with a guy that had been bad for 1/2 the season.

Gotta tie Dube to Lucic. 

[cross16]

Looking at the ice time from last night, Sutter coached like it was meaningful game. 

 

Gio and Tanev over 20 mins

Gawdin under 9 mins

Dube under 15

Lindholm, Backs, Tkachuk Gaudreau all around 20 mins. 

 

Ridiculous. Makes zero sense. 

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Looking at the ice time from last night, Sutter coached like it was meaningful game. 

 

Gio and Tanev over 20 mins

Gawdin under 9 mins

Dube under 15

Lindholm, Backs, Tkachuk Gaudreau all around 20 mins. 

 

Ridiculous. Makes zero sense. 

 

Kylington's reward for a Grade A chance - lowest time of any D-man, including Stone and Nesterov who missed time in the game (went down the tunnel).

Considering we had on PK only, Gio and Tanev played less than they could have.

The only thing meaningful at this point is draft order (yes, I feel like crap for hoping for losses).

Currently 10th in standings, pick 11th.

If we win one more or VAN loss, we can finish no better than 10th.

3 points and we pass Arizona for 11th.

4 points and we pass Chicago for 12th.

 

The only improvement can be had in one of two lotto draws.

Not great odds, but other teams have won them recently.

About time we get something out of the odds. 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Looking at the ice time from last night, Sutter coached like it was meaningful game. 

 

Gio and Tanev over 20 mins

Gawdin under 9 mins

Dube under 15

Lindholm, Backs, Tkachuk Gaudreau all around 20 mins. 

 

Ridiculous. Makes zero sense. 

Not like the Canucks did differently.  Hamonic and Myers top D men, Hoglander and Juolevi under 15.  I agree with what your point is, I just think it isn't just a Sutter/Flames thing.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

Not like the Canucks did differently.  Hamonic and Myers top D men, Hoglander and Juolevi under 15.  I agree with what your point is, I just think it isn't just a Sutter/Flames thing.

 

I don't think it is necessarily just a Sutter/Flames thing but I don't think that matters. It's just not smart IMO.

 

with the Canucks I can understand it because Green is coaching for an extension or a new job. There is no rationale for Calgary to be doing what they are doing. 

 

At least it looks like it won't continue

 

 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't think it is necessarily just a Sutter/Flames thing but I don't think that matters. It's just not smart IMO.

 

with the Canucks I can understand it because Green is coaching for an extension or a new job. There is no rationale for Calgary to be doing what they are doing. 

 

At least it looks like it won't continue

 

 

 

As hopeful as that sounds, it's just a practice for players not generally practicing.

What was the point in trying to get Markstrom another win in a meaningless game in garbage days?

Get him another couple of games in Vancouver, so he can win there?

 

I get it.  The players want to play.  They want to pad their stats.  They want to win games.

But honestly, I can see no good reason to play Ricthie and Nordstom at the least.

They have done enough to prove their future value here.

Gio and Tanev are two guys that could easily draw out to give some guys a chance.

 

[sak22]

34 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't think it is necessarily just a Sutter/Flames thing but I don't think that matters. It's just not smart IMO.

 

with the Canucks I can understand it because Green is coaching for an extension or a new job. There is no rationale for Calgary to be doing what they are doing. 

 

At least it looks like it won't continue

 

 

Yeah, I just don't really view these games as much.  I almost hate them because they can give false impressions.  We talk about how we screwed up in 2013 with a 3 game winning streak near the end, but look who was playing or who was playing well near the end Baertschi finished that year with a 7 game point steak, we were playing guys like Hanowski, Cundari, Reinhart.  Baertschi didn't carry that over and the rest played their way out of the mix the next year, Spencer Foo also a few years back scored goals in garbage games.  Roy Halladay threw a near no-hitter in his second start on the last game of 1998 against the worst team in the league, built up a lot of optimism for him but he got hit hard the next 2 years and had to reinvent himself.  It gives more incentive to watch the games, but not a great measuring stick for analyzing what we have IMO.

[The_People1]

59 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't think it is necessarily just a Sutter/Flames thing but I don't think that matters. It's just not smart IMO.

 

with the Canucks I can understand it because Green is coaching for an extension or a new job. There is no rationale for Calgary to be doing what they are doing. 

 

At least it looks like it won't continue

 

 

 

It was a home game for us so... I know no fans in the seats but still.

 

I suspect the Canucks will go with a competitive roster for both of their home games.  Then Flames may bring back their veterans for the final home game in Calgary.

[cross16]

25 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Yeah, I just don't really view these games as much.  I almost hate them because they can give false impressions.  We talk about how we screwed up in 2013 with a 3 game winning streak near the end, but look who was playing or who was playing well near the end Baertschi finished that year with a 7 game point steak, we were playing guys like Hanowski, Cundari, Reinhart.  Baertschi didn't carry that over and the rest played their way out of the mix the next year, Spencer Foo also a few years back scored goals in garbage games.  Roy Halladay threw a near no-hitter in his second start on the last game of 1998 against the worst team in the league, built up a lot of optimism for him but he got hit hard the next 2 years and had to reinvent himself.  It gives more incentive to watch the games, but not a great measuring stick for analyzing what we have IMO.

 

I don't view it that way. While it is cool as a fan to see them, and I think that should be part of this, ultimately I believe its more prudent from a development standpoint. I view it most as put the kids in a pressure situation and see how they react. Let them talk away the speed of the game at the NHL level and the little things that are different between NHL and AHL. Let guys like Valimaki and Dube play 20 mins plus and see how they react. 

 

You should not react to small sample sizes and that's not the intention. The intention is put players in situations they have experienced before and see how they react and what they can learn. 

 

12 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It was a home game for us so... I know no fans in the seats but still.

 

I suspect the Canucks will go with a competitive roster for both of their home games.  Then Flames may bring back their veterans for the final home game in Calgary.

 

It just sounds like excuses to me and really outside of Gio why should that matter to anyone on the roster? I don't care if Gio plays a bunch the rest of the way but you can do that and still play more kids. 

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't view it that way. While it is cool as a fan to see them, and I think that should be part of this, ultimately I believe its more prudent from a development standpoint. I view it most as put the kids in a pressure situation and see how they react. Let them talk away the speed of the game at the NHL level and the little things that are different between NHL and AHL. Let guys like Valimaki and Dube play 20 mins plus and see how they react. 

 

You should not react to small sample sizes and that's not the intention. The intention is put players in situations they have experienced before and see how they react and what they can learn. 

 

 

It just sounds like excuses to me and really outside of Gio why should that matter to anyone on the roster? I don't care if Gio plays a bunch the rest of the way but you can do that and still play more kids. 

 

 

For sure.  I would shut down all our regulars.  This is an opportunity to see what some of these kids can do.  For example, let's see if Mackey has improved enough to bring him back next season.

[travel_dude]

I think Green said he can't play all the players he wants to because of recall restrictions.

Somehow, I don't think that is being enforced.

If that's the reason why we can't see player X, then I get that.

The comments sound nothing like that.

The players on the ice give the impression that some or all will get their shot.

 

Frankly, if we get 3 wins with Yelesin, Mackey, Phillips, Philp, Gawdin, and Zagidulin all on the ice, so be it.

At least it lets them know they may be close to NHL.

The "vets" can play in those games and understand they are the reason we see a bunch of young guys playing meaningless games.

The vets had the chance to go to the playoffs.  By vets, I mean all of the guys that played the season, not a few that sat a lot.

[travel_dude]

NOTE - not direct quotes, but essentially what he said.

 

Interesting press conference with Sutter post practice.

"Size and grit wins championships"

"Having size and grit on your 3rd and 4th line wins...."

 

Asked about Phillips' assessment.

"I seen him play 1-2 times, so can't give a fair assessment".

 

Asked about size versus speed in today's game

"Vegas came in 3 years ago and are big and fast.  Just finished playing for the President Cup.  Went to the Cup Finals.  Big and fast wins chanpionships.  Tampa brought in big and fast last year".

 

The way I read that is your 3rd and 4th lines are grinders and gritty guys.

 

[cross16]

Yup that Tampa winning the cup with their depth. Had nothing to do with having an elite goalie, number 1 center and Norris Caliber dman. Nah....

 

I can't tell if it's comical or depressing to be a fan of this organization. Just so stuck in the past. 

 

 

[The_People1]

You need everything.  Plain and simple.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Yup that Tampa winning the cup with their depth. Had nothing to do with having an elite goalie, number 1 center and Norris Caliber dman. Nah....

 

I can't tell if it's comical or depressing to be a fan of this organization. Just so stuck in the past. 

 

I know you are going to hate this but we can expect to see Ryan gone.  He's neither big nor gritty.  

 

I'm happy this will likely mean Ritchie comes back.  I enjoyed what he brought.  Size and grit.  He taught Khaira a lesson and sent the rest of the league a message.  I would bring Ritchie back for the duration of Sutter's contract so two years.  $800k x 2-years should get it done.  Also RHS RW helps balance lines in bottom 6.

 

Goodbye Nordstrom and Leivo.  Not big and no grit.

 

Hello Rucizka and Duehr.  Looking forward to see what Rucizka can bring.  Duehr sounds like a 4th line energy grinder.

 

Sutter also really liked Stone down the stretch.  Stone also played well.  I expect him to be back next season.  Size and grit.