Calgary Flames 20/21 Roster and Lines

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Since they are going to be a dump and chase team, I don't think they can keep Gaudreau and Monahan together, neither of them are any good at retrieving pucks. 

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Gives Gaudreau lots of talent to work with, Tkachuk and Lindholm are great at retrieving pucks, putting Tkachuk and Gaudreau together might rejuvenate Tkachuk.

 

Dube-Monahan-Mangiapane

Dube and Mangiapane add a lot pace and tenacity to the more methodical Monahan. Let the wingers go dig out the pucks for Monahan.

 

Lucic-Backlund-Leivo

Not too sure if Leivo is the best fit on this line, could go Bennett or Ritchie in this spot as well.

 

Bennett-Ryan-Ritchie

 

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

No offense to Ritchie but he is a good 3rd/4th liner.  He can't keep up with Gaudreau.  I get he brings physicality to that line but he's no Ferland.  He just doesn't have the skills, vision, awareness, etc.

 

But who else do we play there?  I mean this has been a failure we saw since the end of last season (and well before that even).  Leivo looks the best but the numbers aren't there to prove it.  Simon didn't work out.  Robinson isn't NHL material.  Bennett is a better LW/C than a RW.  Mangiapane doesn't like to play RW.  Dube is needed for the other line.  Now that we've ended with Ritchie as the best option, it's facepalms all around.

 

Short of changing up all the lines, the next best alternative is to swap Leivo and Ritchie.  As Cross pointed out, he wasn't a problem on their line.  He may not have found his shot until just recently, but I feel like that is more a confidence/luck thing than skill.  His last 3 goals are from finding quiet areas and knowing where the net was.  Giving Gaudreau another weapon on his line isn't a bad thing.  He more apt to take a pass on his stick into the zone over Ritchie.  Maybe it's not the best option, but I wouldn't just revert to Ritchie on the Gaudreau line.  

 

I've got no problem with him being in the lineup every night.  He didn't need to be on Gaudreau's line to stick up for Kylington.    

[JTech780]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

Short of changing up all the lines, the next best alternative is to swap Leivo and Ritchie.  As Cross pointed out, he wasn't a problem on their line.  He may not have found his shot until just recently, but I feel like that is more a confidence/luck thing than skill.  His last 3 goals are from finding quiet areas and knowing where the net was.  Giving Gaudreau another weapon on his line isn't a bad thing.  He more apt to take a pass on his stick into the zone over Ritchie.  Maybe it's not the best option, but I wouldn't just revert to Ritchie on the Gaudreau line.  

 

I've got no problem with him being in the lineup every night.  He didn't need to be on Gaudreau's line to stick up for Kylington.    

 

IMO swapping Ritchie for Leivo doesn't solve the issue that line faces, Gaudreau and Monahan still can't retrieve pucks, so you are relying on Leivo to do all the work.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

IMO swapping Ritchie for Leivo doesn't solve the issue that line faces, Gaudreau and Monahan still can't retrieve pucks, so you are relying on Leivo to do all the work.

 

You don't have to only dump and retrieve.

That may be the mark of a Dutter team, but so is possession. 

 

[JTech780]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You don't have to only dump and retrieve.

That may be the mark of a Dutter team, but so is possession. 

 

 

It sure seems like he wants all his lines playing dump and chase hockey right now.  He generally likes to get possession by having a heavy forecheck, and limiting the shot attempts from the other team.

 

Gaudreau and Monahan are going to have to adjust to producing off of the forecheck and getting less chances off the rush.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

It sure seems like he wants all his lines playing dump and chase hockey right now.  He generally likes to get possession by having a heavy forecheck, and limiting the shot attempts from the other team.

 

Gaudreau and Monahan are going to have to adjust to producing off of the forecheck and getting less chances off the rush.

 

Maybe.  I don't see it working only that way.

It has to be a bit more hybrid IMHO; it's not like we are built like the Kings in 2014.  

[robrob74]

47 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

It sure seems like he wants all his lines playing dump and chase hockey right now.  He generally likes to get possession by having a heavy forecheck, and limiting the shot attempts from the other team.

 

Gaudreau and Monahan are going to have to adjust to producing off of the forecheck and getting less chances off the rush.

 

I have a feeling it’s about eliminating the low percentage mistakes in the neutral zone, to teach them how to play it safer compared to the amount of mistakes they were making.

 

[LouCifer]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Close.  For Eichel.

You read my mind Peeps 👍🏻 BUFF GM said he’d listen on everything now. 

[CheersMan]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Close.  For Eichel.

BUF is not trading Eichel

12 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

You read my mind Peeps 👍🏻 BUFF GM said he’d listen on everything now. 

Ditto

43 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I have a feeling it’s about eliminating the low percentage mistakes in the neutral zone, to teach them how to play it safer compared to the amount of mistakes they were making.

You can dipsey doddle in the neutral zone, lose possession, allowing odd man rushes against you, or you can choose the safe play and dump the puck behind their D and forecheck hard, creating turnovers in the ozone. I think Dutter likes the later.

[travel_dude]

19 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

It sure seems like he wants all his lines playing dump and chase hockey right now.  He generally likes to get possession by having a heavy forecheck, and limiting the shot attempts from the other team.

 

Gaudreau and Monahan are going to have to adjust to producing off of the forecheck and getting less chances off the rush.

 

Last night was an example of why you can't just play dump and chase.

Read this stat earlier:

 

On his (Gaudreau) shifts last night...

2 for 15 - on gaining controlled possession after a dump.

Easy zone exits for EDM.

They had 8 controlled entries with him at 5on5 which led to multiple high danger scoring chances.

 

Either they need to change some of the lines or allow for some controlled entry.  Goaltending had a lot to do with the loss, as did inept play at getting the puck out, but offense has to be more than just fighting to get the puck back.  When we had control, we were a dangerous team.  

[JTech780]

They really need to separate Gaudreau and Monahan, Gaudreau sets up a lot of shots, but Monahan is the lowest volume shooter on the team. It would be interesting to see what Gaudreau could do with players who actually are able to get to spots to shoot. What compounds the issue is that Gaudreau doesn't shoot either, so when both are on the ice nobody is shooting the puck.

[ABC923]

4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

They really need to separate Gaudreau and Monahan, Gaudreau sets up a lot of shots, but Monahan is the lowest volume shooter on the team. It would be interesting to see what Gaudreau could do with players who actually are able to get to spots to shoot. What compounds the issue is that Gaudreau doesn't shoot either, so when both are on the ice nobody is shooting the puck.

I hope they send Monahan to a sports psychologist.  He used to be excellent at getting open, now he's a non-factor most nights. His shooting percentage this season is 10.4, which is the lowest in his career by a large margin (next worst was last season at 13.3%). He's barely on pace for 20 goals over 82 games (although his assists are on par for his career). He just seems like he has no confidence.

[robrob74]

9 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

I hope they send Monahan to a sports psychologist.  He used to be excellent at getting open, now he's a non-factor most nights. His shooting percentage this season is 10.4, which is the lowest in his career by a large margin (next worst was last season at 13.3%). He's barely on pace for 20 goals over 82 games (although his assists are on par for his career). He just seems like he has no confidence.

 

I think the toughest thing for

him might be getting open. You know you contain Johnny and Monny and that line is done. Take Monahan away and you leave Johnny with no options. I don’t know if that’s because Monahan is not a great skater, but maybe once they get in the zone he’s not moving enough. Maybe in the past it was, Johnny and Hudler work their way into the zone and then Monahan is the trailer to get into the shooter position. It’s why Lindholm worked well but they seemed to go away from playing that way. Lindholm can shoot and pass. We are another Lindholm level RW away from them competing again.

[pikey7883]

I am going to put an idea out there regarding Tkachuk (who I love and is still in the running to be the teams next captain, but has a way to go).

We have all seen him struggling, whether he is disengaged because of what teammates said to him, or he wants to impress Sutter so much that he’s trying to hard, or his style just doesn’t work with Lindy and Dube. Or maybe a little bit of all that. 
Next week they are in Ottawa and I think they should put him in the press box. Hear me out. He had recently commented that his little brother has been playing great and the team has come together and are playing a style that benefits Brady. I think that watching that game from up top without getting into the emotions of the game would be beneficial to one see how his line plays and to see there tendencies, as well as to watch how spaces open up and help to remind him to slow the game down and pick his spots better. 
I would put Bennett in his spot and also give that a shot just to see what he can do. 
how crazy is my idea? 

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, pikey7883 said:

I am going to put an idea out there regarding Tkachuk (who I love and is still in the running to be the teams next captain, but has a way to go).

We have all seen him struggling, whether he is disengaged because of what teammates said to him, or he wants to impress Sutter so much that he’s trying to hard, or his style just doesn’t work with Lindy and Dube. Or maybe a little bit of all that. 
Next week they are in Ottawa and I think they should put him in the press box. Hear me out. He had recently commented that his little brother has been playing great and the team has come together and are playing a style that benefits Brady. I think that watching that game from up top without getting into the emotions of the game would be beneficial to one see how his line plays and to see there tendencies, as well as to watch how spaces open up and help to remind him to slow the game down and pick his spots better. 
I would put Bennett in his spot and also give that a shot just to see what he can do. 
how crazy is my idea? 

If OTT takes another 2 pts from us you would look like a genius.

[pikey7883]

1 hour ago, CheersMan said:

If OTT takes another 2 pts from us you would look like a genius.

Firstly, thankyou for the sarcasm, lol.

Secondly, I should’ve elaborated on why I thought it would be a good idea against Ottawa. If you win the next two against Toronto, chances are Tkachuk has good games and sitting him is not a concern. However, if you lose the next two against Toronto and are falling deeper down the standings it could be from the fact Chucky is still struggling and could benefit from something like this. Not to mention sometimes a team needs to find other ways to score and win, and removing a player like him would force them to do that. 
All of my thinking is to teach him to learn and adapt his game to become a better leader of the team.

But if I’m crazy keep the sarcasm coming, lol.

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, pikey7883 said:

Firstly, thankyou for the sarcasm, lol.

Secondly, I should’ve elaborated on why I thought it would be a good idea against Ottawa. If you win the next two against Toronto, chances are Tkachuk has good games and sitting him is not a concern. However, if you lose the next two against Toronto and are falling deeper down the standings it could be from the fact Chucky is still struggling and could benefit from something like this. Not to mention sometimes a team needs to find other ways to score and win, and removing a player like him would force them to do that. 
All of my thinking is to teach him to learn and adapt his game to become a better leader of the team.

But if I’m crazy keep the sarcasm coming, lol.

Maybe the expectations for MT are too high for some.

You bench players for not pulling on the "team" rope. MT does his fair share of pulling.

MT is tied for 2nd on the team for total points. He has 5 pts in last 5 games and is a +5 over the same period.

Not sure why we would consider benching such player and embarrassing him in front of bro and family, while damaging his relationship with the team.

If it's the MT shenanigan's you miss, we can save that for playoff hockey because it is not sustainable throughout the season.

I think MT is fine.

 

 

[pikey7883]

2 hours ago, CheersMan said:

Maybe the expectations for MT are too high for some.

You bench players for not pulling on the "team" rope. MT does his fair share of pulling.

MT is tied for 2nd on the team for total points. He has 5 pts in last 5 games and is a +5 over the same period.

Not sure why we would consider benching such player and embarrassing him in front of bro and family, while damaging his relationship with the team.

If it's the MT shenanigan's you miss, we can save that for playoff hockey because it is not sustainable throughout the season.

I think MT is fine.

 

 

To be honest I did not look at his stats, I was just going by the eye test of something being off. And I like the shenanigans of course it makes the game more entertaining, but I meant more his swagger seems to be missing. 
And I wouldn’t want to “damage” him by any means, if my memory serves me correctly. At one time they let Johnny eat some popcorn for a game or two so that he could see how fast the game was moving and he was able to recognize where his spots would open up. Not as a demotion but more as a teaching opportunity for a young player. I appreciate the back and forth.

[JTech780]

Right now Monahan is probably the 4th best center on this team at 5v5. I say we just load up the top 9 right now.

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Dube-Backlund-Mangipane

Lucic-Ryan-Leivo

Bennett-Monahan-Ritchie

 

Though I think we should probably just call up Phillips

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Dube-Backlund-Mangipane

Bennett-Monahan-Phillips

Lucic-Ryan-Leivo/Ritchie

[MP5029]

11 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Right now Monahan is probably the 4th best center on this team at 5v5. I say we just load up the top 9 right now.

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Dube-Backlund-Mangipane

Lucic-Ryan-Leivo

Bennett-Monahan-Ritchie

 

Though I think we should probably just call up Phillips

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Dube-Backlund-Mangipane

Bennett-Monahan-Phillips

Lucic-Ryan-Leivo/Ritchie

That’s interesting but I think they want to keep Phillips in the A...I think he’s protected from the expansion draft that way.

[cross16]

Phillips is already eligible for the expansion draft already, playing in the A doesn’t change that. I could see them wanting to keep him down there as a way to hide him but he’s already eligible. 
 

I feel like the season is too deep to making such radical changes but the flames really need to made the decision on what they want out of their lineup, I particular Gaudreau. If your content for gaudrea to just be another guy then keep rolling with what you have, but if you want a game breaking talent they need to make some changes. Either get a legit RW for that line or better yet get Gaudreau some players that can he can play and thrive with. 
 

what they are doing right now is basically taking their best offensive weapon out of the game. This is nothing against Gaudreau I’ve actually really liked his game under Sutter but he won’t be able to be himself if they keep him with Monahan and Ritchie. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

Phillips is already eligible for the expansion draft already, playing in the A doesn’t change that. I could see them wanting to keep him down there as a way to hide him but he’s already eligible. 
 

I feel like the season is too deep to making such radical changes but the flames really need to made the decision on what they want out of their lineup, I particular Gaudreau. If your content for gaudrea to just be another guy then keep rolling with what you have, but if you want a game breaking talent they need to make some changes. Either get a legit RW for that line or better yet get Gaudreau some players that can he can play and thrive with. 
 

what they are doing right now is basically taking their best offensive weapon out of the game. This is nothing against Gaudreau I’ve actually really liked his game under Sutter but he won’t be able to be himself if they keep him with Monahan and Ritchie. 

 

Yeah, I don't know what the best solution is for that.

Difficult to make a trade in the division.

COVID makes it difficult to trade outside.

 

I don't really like the Monahan line right now.

Even when they gaine the zone, it ends up a low danger chance of loss of possession.

Ritchie is fine for a couple of game, much like Robinson was for one or two.

It's not an answer.

 

Two possible lines that Gaudreau would fit on:

Gaudreau-Backlund-Mangiapane

This becomes an offensive 5v5 line which mostly defensive smarts.  Backlund is one of the better puck carriers and Mangiapane is deadly when he gets open.  You lose out on the shutdown capability of Backlund, but You adjust the other lines to balance it out.

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Dube

This is about getting the best scoring out of a line.  They are a faster line that has some snipers on it.  

[cross16]

I think this is they product of a short leash late in the season. Flames can’t really afford to lose any points but even with that I’m quite surprised that really the only tinkering being done is the 6th dman. 
 

 

[travel_dude]

On 3/20/2021 at 4:54 PM, cross16 said:

I think this is they product of a short leash late in the season. Flames can’t really afford to lose any points but even with that I’m quite surprised that really the only tinkering being done is the 6th dman. 
 

 

 

While it's a minor change to bring in Nesterov over Kylington, the short leash only extends to Kylington.  Minus 1 for 1 game, plus 1 for another and even for the remaining 4 games.  Flames are 4-1-1 with him in the lineup.  In his last game (7-3 loss), he was on for a GA and a GF.  

 

While I think the bigger issues with the lineup are on the forward side, Nesterov has done little lately for me to think he is a better choice. 

[JTech780]

28 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

While it's a minor change to bring in Nesterov over Kylington, the short leash only extends to Kylington.  Minus 1 for 1 game, plus 1 for another and even for the remaining 4 games.  Flames are 4-1-1 with him in the lineup.  In his last game (7-3 loss), he was on for a GA and a GF.  

 

While I think the bigger issues with the lineup are on the forward side, Nesterov has done little lately for me to think he is a better choice. 

 

See I think that 6th defenseman is a huge issue, we want to be a defense first team and we only have 5 NHL defensemen, I think that is an issue.

 

I think the forwards can be re-worked with the players on the roster. The 3rd pairing needs help and I think Valimaki could really benefit from finding a veteran to play with him in the 3rd pair.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

See I think that 6th defenseman is a huge issue, we want to be a defense first team and we only have 5 NHL defensemen, I think that is an issue.

 

I think the forwards can be re-worked with the players on the roster. The 3rd pairing needs help and I think Valimaki could really benefit from finding a veteran to play with him in the 3rd pair.

 

My reference was in the grand scheme of things, tweaking only one D pairding (3rd) does little to change things.

 

I would prefer Gio play with Valimaki, but that's not happening.

In a last 5 games played comparison, Nesterov has 2 points and is a combined -2, while Kylington had 1 point and is even.

That's on the surface of course.

I'm not digging into special teams play.