Thebrewcrew Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 I’m not too worried, he was traded within the division, we only play the Yotes once more. Frankly I’m glad he didn’t go to COL, talk about scary if that had happened. Couple reasons why I think this made sense for ARI They have a really solid team, they just struggle to score. This could be reminiscent of the 2012 Kings acquiring Carter to address their scoring woes. The Yotes are also trying to attract fans, Chayka has long craved a big name superstar. They tried to get in on Stamkos, but he stayed in TB, they also tried on Tavares but were denied a meeting in LA. This stood as Chayka’s best chance to not only land a difference maker on the ice, but to get bums in seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said: I’m not too worried, he was traded within the division, we only play the Yotes once more. Frankly I’m glad he didn’t go to COL, talk about scary if that had happened. Couple reasons why I think this made sense for ARI They have a really solid team, they just struggle to score. This could be reminiscent of the 2012 Kings acquiring Carter to address their scoring woes. The Yotes are also trying to attract fans, Chayka has long craved a big name superstar. They tried to get in on Stamkos, but he stayed in TB, they also tried on Tavares but were denied a meeting in LA. This stood as Chayka’s best chance to not only land a difference maker on the ice, but to get bums in seats. It's exciting for the fans. Missed out a few times on top picks. Some really good players. They need to do something now, while they are getting good goaltending and still have a good defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 Sounds like Treliving went pretty hard after Hall, and it sounds like they might have had a package that they felt was just as good as the package Arizona gave for Hall. I find that a bit surprising. It also sounds like the market for rentals isn't that good anymore, teams just aren't willing to give up blue chip prospects or high picks anymore. So I think that NJ was able to get a 1st and the potential to get another 1st makes the return pretty good for a rental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 I'm not very surprised, I suspected the Flames would want Hall. Well known they want a top 6 forward and he's a talent the likes of which you don't get a chance to acquire often. Combine that with the Calgary angle of his youth I think the Flames had, and to a certain extent have, to create a Tavares like situation where they can get a high end player for reasonable cost. It's why i still think you'll see them linked if he does wind up going to UFA. I'm guessing here but the rumors all along suggested that NJ was picking between packages of picks/futures or young roster players. My guess is Flames probably offered up the likes of Kylington or Bennett and were lighter on the picks and Jersey wanted the picks. That and i'm sure Flames were sending some form of salary over to the Devils as well. I mean I think the package of what Jersey got is pretty weak so it wouldn't have taken much for the Flames to offer as competitive a package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, cross16 said: I'm not very surprised, I suspected the Flames would want Hall. Well known they want a top 6 forward and he's a talent the likes of which you don't get a chance to acquire often. Combine that with the Calgary angle of his youth I think the Flames had, and to a certain extent have, to create a Tavares like situation where they can get a high end player for reasonable cost. It's why i still think you'll see them linked if he does wind up going to UFA. I'm guessing here but the rumors all along suggested that NJ was picking between packages of picks/futures or young roster players. My guess is Flames probably offered up the likes of Kylington or Bennett and were lighter on the picks and Jersey wanted the picks. That and i'm sure Flames were sending some form of salary over to the Devils as well. I mean I think the package of what Jersey got is pretty weak so it wouldn't have taken much for the Flames to offer as competitive a package. See I thought Jersey did well, I didn't think they would get a 1st let alone a chance for 2 1st's for Hall, plus a solid defense prospect in Bahl. I think there is a lot of uncertainty with IMO, he had one great season, the rest have been injury prone or unspectacular. IMO he isn't an elite player, he is a good complimentary skill player. The fact that he plays LW brings his value down as well, as there are a lot of skilled LW out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, JTech780 said: See I thought Jersey did well, I didn't think they would get a 1st let alone a chance for 2 1st's for Hall, plus a solid defense prospect in Bahl. I think there is a lot of uncertainty with IMO, he had one great season, the rest have been injury prone or unspectacular. IMO he isn't an elite player, he is a good complimentary skill player. The fact that he plays LW brings his value down as well, as there are a lot of skilled LW out there. I have said this before, but it really goes to show that you kind of need to know the strength of a the top of a draft when deciding to rebuild. In some of the stronger drafts where would Hall, or even Bennett be drafted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 20 hours ago, JTech780 said: I am not a big Hall fan myself, he is a good forward but not an elite forward. I am glad we didn't give up that return for a player I would have been the 5th best forward on our team. Completely agree, thank you sweet sweet lord we were not in on this. Coyotes were absolutely fleeced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, robrob74 said: I have said this before, but it really goes to show that you kind of need to know the strength of a the top of a draft when deciding to rebuild. In some of the stronger drafts where would Hall, or even Bennett be drafted? imho, top 3 in almost any draft. Elite talents. But that's not enough on its own. Paths must still be chosen, development must still be as elite as their talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, JTech780 said: Sounds like Treliving went pretty hard after Hall, that is scary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, JTech780 said: See I thought Jersey did well, I didn't think they would get a 1st let alone a chance for 2 1st's for Hall, plus a solid defense prospect in Bahl. I think there is a lot of uncertainty with IMO, he had one great season, the rest have been injury prone or unspectacular. IMO he isn't an elite player, he is a good complimentary skill player. The fact that he plays LW brings his value down as well, as there are a lot of skilled LW out there. We are quite far apart on Hall. There is a very small list of player in the entire league that can play his level of game and consistently drive play and chances. the injury concerns are very valid, but when healthy I think there are less than 10-15 players in the entire league that can play the level of his offense he generates. I don't think there is any question he is an elite player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 17, 2019 Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, cross16 said: We are quite far apart on Hall. There is a very small list of player in the entire league that can play his level of game and consistently drive play and chances. the injury concerns are very valid, but when healthy I think there are less than 10-15 players in the entire league that can play the level of his offense he generates. I don't think there is any question he is an elite player. He's just a name man. He's been healthy this year but he's 75th in scoring despite playing more games than many of those above him. 61st overall in ppg. Tied for 170th overall in goals. Before asking me if I've seen him play and going through that whole pissing contest, the truth is these are the best rankings we will ever see from him ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted December 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2019 Here is an article worth a read... Taylor Hall Cap Comparables: Is the Coyotes star a $10-million player? https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-cap-comparables-coyotes-star-10-million-player/ While I do not agree with everything in the article, I do agree with quite a bit of it... Including the last two paragraphs... If he goes UFA and the Flames could pick him up at around $7mil, I would be happy to see him on the team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Carty said: Here is an article worth a read... Taylor Hall Cap Comparables: Is the Coyotes star a $10-million player? https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-cap-comparables-coyotes-star-10-million-player/ While I do not agree with everything in the article, I do agree with quite a bit of it... Including the last two paragraphs... If he goes UFA and the Flames could pick him up at around $7mil, I would be happy to see him on the team... Ummm, are they comparing Hall to Panarin? My comparison then is Hall's worth maybe $6 to Panarin's $11.6. Everyone that plays with Panarin has career years, year after year, team after team. I heard a lot of incredulity that the Rangers signed him. "Who do they have to play with him"? Doesn't matter. Hall makes no one look better than they are. I near choked on my beer seeing the 2 in the same paragraph. It's nowhere remotely close. Panarin didn't really reset anything, he's worth every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 I see Hall in very much the same way as Kessel. Both are skilled forwards, but don't make those around them better, neither are leaders, neither are good defensively, both lack consistency in effort. I would have been fine bringing him in, but anything more than a Kylington and a 2nd would have been an overpay. I am quite surprised that Jersey got more for Hall than Ottawa got for Stone who IMO is the far superior player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted December 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 16 hours ago, conundrumed said: Ummm, are they comparing Hall to Panarin? My comparison then is Hall's worth maybe $6 to Panarin's $11.6. I didn't take it that way. it was more that Panarin raised the bar for $... Hall won't get a contract like Panarin's, but if his stats go back up for the rest of this season and goes UFA, someone will be willing to pay him a number approaching $10 mil... Or he can play for a a team that is a contender for a run in the playoffs for a couple of million less... 16 hours ago, conundrumed said: Hall makes no one look better than they are. Hard to say he doesn't contribute though... Pretty good effort last might for his first game with the Yotes... https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/halls-hustle-helps-coyotes-score-winner-late-third-period/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 40 minutes ago, Carty said: I didn't take it that way. it was more that Panarin raised the bar for $... Hall won't get a contract like Panarin's, but if his stats go back up for the rest of this season and goes UFA, someone will be willing to pay him a number approaching $10 mil... Or he can play for a a team that is a contender for a run in the playoffs for a couple of million less... Hard to say he doesn't contribute though... Pretty good effort last might for his first game with the Yotes... https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/halls-hustle-helps-coyotes-score-winner-late-third-period/ Looks like his line is Kessel-Dvorak-Hall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Looks like his line is Kessel-Dvorak-Hall? My only concern is this making the Yotes a more competetive team, which it does. Arms races rarely work out (look at SJS). But that's two teams that have added top 3 players, while we exchanged Neal for Lucic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted December 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, conundrumed said: Looks like his line is Kessel-Dvorak-Hall? That's right... and I won't be surprised if he stays there on their 1st line... 55 minutes ago, travel_dude said: My only concern is this making the Yotes a more competetive team, which it does. On of my concerns as well... Quote Arms races rarely work out (look at SJS). But sometimes they do... Same as 1st round picks. sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't... Hall is just 28, so he's not miled-out, and you know what you are getting... Quote But that's two teams that have added top 3 players, while we exchanged Neal for Lucic. One of the reasons I was hoping the Flames could pick up Hall was so the Avs or Yotes didn't get him... He makes the Yotes a better team, and he would do the same for the Avs.. No doubt Treliving also considered that factor... I'm pretty sure Treliving pitched a good offer for him, but there was sufficient cap going back the other way with more established players, and probably a lesser pick or two... But Jersey went for the offer with better picks and the prospects... The question now is can the Flames possibly sign him at a reasonable amount if he goes UFA... Pretty safe bet that Treliving will try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, conundrumed said: Looks like his line is Kessel-Dvorak-Hall? Is there enough pucks on the ice for both Hall and Kessel to be on the ice at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasti Posted December 19, 2019 Report Share Posted December 19, 2019 On 12/17/2019 at 1:46 PM, jjgallow said: He's just a name man. He's been healthy this year but he's 75th in scoring despite playing more games than many of those above him. 61st overall in ppg. Tied for 170th overall in goals. Before asking me if I've seen him play and going through that whole pissing contest, the truth is these are the best rankings we will ever see from him ever again. Could not disagree more. Say what you will about his Hart trophy season but that doesn't just happen by accident. We aren't talking Cheechoo feeding off of Thornton for a Richard. This is the league MVP award. The fact is he won it because he put the team on his back with an unreal point streak and outscored the next player on the team by about 40 points. This is why some (myself included) believe him to be an elite talent. Because he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 19, 2019 Report Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Sarasti said: Could not disagree more. Say what you will about his Hart trophy season but that doesn't just happen by accident. We aren't talking Cheechoo feeding off of Thornton for a Richard. This is the league MVP award. The fact is he won it because he put the team on his back with an unreal point streak and outscored the next player on the team by about 40 points. This is why some (myself included) believe him to be an elite talent. Because he is. He is an elite talent, I won't dispute that. So is Gary Leeman. Slightly out of his prime and still recovering from an Al McInnis induced concussion. But are they both elite talents? Without question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 19, 2019 Report Share Posted December 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Sarasti said: Could not disagree more. Say what you will about his Hart trophy season but that doesn't just happen by accident. We aren't talking Cheechoo feeding off of Thornton for a Richard. This is the league MVP award. The fact is he won it because he put the team on his back with an unreal point streak and outscored the next player on the team by about 40 points. This is why some (myself included) believe him to be an elite talent. Because he is. That was his outlier season, not his norm. His norm is about 25-30 goals. So I guess Monahan is elite too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 Remember what Colorado did to us in the playoffs last year? I’m not calling Hall a messiah, But It would be nice to add a weapon that has both speed and finish to this lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, lou44291 said: Remember what Colorado did to us in the playoffs last year? I’m not calling Hall a messiah, But It would be nice to add a weapon that has both speed and finish to this lineup. Or, the Hall-Duchene Syndrome. Where a black cloud just tends to follow you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 3 hours ago, conundrumed said: Or, the Hall-Duchene Syndrome. Where a black cloud just tends to follow you. Duchene did go to the 2nd round last year, something I thought he’d never do. I am with you though, have a red flag with Hall and Duchene. but wouldn’t Hall magnify some of the players we have and shift guys into better slots, effectively creating depth? I seriously think this team has depth but not necessarily the right type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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