sak22 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 5 hours ago, phoenix66 said: TBH if a move were to be made, Id be all over Laviolette before Gallant he's taken 3 different teams to the finals, and has a history of longevity no disrespect , or lack of acknowledgement to Gallant , but.. Vegas was a perfect storm - a team galvanized over a tragic unfortunate event - a team of chips derived from " your last team didn't want you " - some deals made by teams that should never have been made , that handed over Stars Full kudos to Gallant for pushing the buttons and keeping it rolling , but that wasnt all on him .,and again .. he has a mysterious shelf life I think Laviolette would be the better change if you're going to make one I don't think its a mysterious shelf life, he was fired from Florida with a 11-10-1 record and Vegas with a winning record. In both cases the GM that hired him took on higher positions, he wasn't Rowe's or McCrimmon's coach so he became a fall guy when both saw it necessary. Personally I was fine with riding Ward out until after the season until this guy became available. I believe if we still believe in this core we need to see if they can go with an actual high calibre coach before making a final judgement on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 We are something like 14-7-1 with Geoff Ward. Not the numbers that scream change. Give Ward the rest of the season and see if we make the playoffs and then see how we play in the playoffs. If we are disinterested and unmotivated in a quick first round exit like last season, then make a coaching change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 10 hours ago, tmac70 said: To me it sends the rigt message. This clubs core at this time needs to either put up or moved on from. Hartley, gully, Peters, ward nothing has changed. Ones to hard one to soft, Blockchain me when does it end, this club is a gm nightmare. For someone that hates to lose JG and Gio sure are looking pretty comfortsble. This club is tied for 1st because of great goaltending, period!!! So which coach brings you the best d coverage, imho thats laviolete. He also is not a players coach either. I like Gallant but it just seems he gets shipped out at weird times. I for one have agreed with just about every coaching change.. GG, Hartley,.. Peter's was following the same path until the hockey gods removed him for us.. but one thing has remained constant , the players on the ice stopped responding. For me you have to go back to Brent Sutter to find a coach we should have kept ..he left because at the time ownership wouldn't make the changes that needed to be done (starting with trading Iginla) For me it's not a coaches job to motivate his players ..that has to come from within. We have a talented bunch..the talent is here to rival any so called true contender .. his job is to put them in a good position to win, a gm job is to give him the proper horses to do it with. We need the Czarnik's and Quines in the lineup.. the ones coasting with no job fear like Janko are the problem . Gimme the guys who bust their hump every time they step on the ice Johnny is Uber talented , but to me he is just not a game changer ..he's certainly not a leader. Say what you want about Hall, but even when he's been silent I've never seen him take a shift off . We just played 3 games and scored 3 goals .. 1 was garbage time .. the 2 meaningful ones were scored by Ryan and Janko Kane just torched the same Toronto team we needed a shootout to win.. big players show up in big games . How is this a coaching issue ? That in a nutshell is the difference between Johnny and Kane I don't care if you reincarnate a young Scotty Bowman.. coaching isn't the issue here I currently only have an issue with 2 players on this team..Johnny and Janko Yes I also want TJ moved , but I have no issues with his effort or teamwork.. just feel he's replaceable and needs to move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irocke99 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 If one would take a look at all our top guys. Compared, to the rest of the team their +/- is brutal! Get your defensive heads out of your Hash Rate top guys. That's the reason for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, phoenix66 said: I for one have agreed with just about every coaching change.. GG, Hartley,.. Peter's was following the same path until the hockey gods removed him for us.. but one thing has remained constant , the players on the ice stopped responding. For me you have to go back to Brent Sutter to find a coach we should have kept ..he left because at the time ownership wouldn't make the changes that needed to be done (starting with trading Iginla) For me it's not a coaches job to motivate his players ..that has to come from within. We have a talented bunch..the talent is here to rival any so called true contender .. his job is to put them in a good position to win, a gm job is to give him the proper horses to do it with. We need the Czarnik's and Quines in the lineup.. the ones coasting with no job fear like Janko are the problem . Gimme the guys who bust their hump every time they step on the ice Johnny is Uber talented , but to me he is just not a game changer ..he's certainly not a leader. Say what you want about Hall, but even when he's been silent I've never seen him take a shift off . We just played 3 games and scored 3 goals .. 1 was garbage time .. the 2 meaningful ones were scored by Ryan and Janko Kane just torched the same Toronto team we needed a shootout to win.. big players show up in big games . How is this a coaching issue ? That in a nutshell is the difference between Johnny and Kane I don't care if you reincarnate a young Scotty Bowman.. coaching isn't the issue here I currently only have an issue with 2 players on this team..Johnny and Janko Yes I also want TJ moved , but I have no issues with his effort or teamwork.. just feel he's replaceable and needs to move on 1 assist I wouldn't call it a Kane torching as much as the Blackhawks had big games out of Toews and Kubalik. But 2nd Patrick Kane is in the upper echelon of players, why such a criticism for Johnny not being as good as Kane, nobody on this team is as good or will ever be as good as Kane, most teams in the league don't have a player as good as Kane. When the Johnny-Mony comparisons to Kane-Toews started it was that they were a poor mans Kane and Toews, but nobody should've expected them to be on par or better than those 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 hours ago, phoenix66 said: I for one have agreed with just about every coaching change.. GG, Hartley,.. Peter's was following the same path until the hockey gods removed him for us.. but one thing has remained constant , the players on the ice stopped responding. For me you have to go back to Brent Sutter to find a coach we should have kept ..he left because at the time ownership wouldn't make the changes that needed to be done (starting with trading Iginla) For me it's not a coaches job to motivate his players ..that has to come from within. We have a talented bunch..the talent is here to rival any so called true contender .. his job is to put them in a good position to win, a gm job is to give him the proper horses to do it with. We need the Czarnik's and Quines in the lineup.. the ones coasting with no job fear like Janko are the problem . Gimme the guys who bust their hump every time they step on the ice Johnny is Uber talented , but to me he is just not a game changer ..he's certainly not a leader. Say what you want about Hall, but even when he's been silent I've never seen him take a shift off . We just played 3 games and scored 3 goals .. 1 was garbage time .. the 2 meaningful ones were scored by Ryan and Janko Kane just torched the same Toronto team we needed a shootout to win.. big players show up in big games . How is this a coaching issue ? That in a nutshell is the difference between Johnny and Kane I don't care if you reincarnate a young Scotty Bowman.. coaching isn't the issue here I currently only have an issue with 2 players on this team..Johnny and Janko Yes I also want TJ moved , but I have no issues with his effort or teamwork.. just feel he's replaceable and needs to move on Please explain to me how playing Backlund with the top line is supposed to have a positive impact. It's one of the biggest head scratchers. Lindholm scoring goals now, but Tkachuk not. Gaudreau scoring for the top line, but Monahan not. Dube has gone quiet, but Ryan is doing ok. I get that you make line changes to spark something. Other than difference, I see no spark. Lindholm is scoring because he has a good shot. I doubt we see any coach change now. Even though we desperately need it. Ward was part of the group that lost to COL in the playoffs. They had no answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 10 hours ago, travel_dude said: If we want a defensive minded coach, we netter trade at least one D. We don;t have the horses. Brodie can still adjust his game. Gio will do whatever. Explain to him he hasn;t got the offense anymore and just focus on defending. Ras, Kylington are most of the way there. Hanifin is a study in I don't know. Hamonic is so slow it's painful to watch. I feel that we had more success when we transitioned fast. We don;t seem to do that. No rushes. we get at least 2 or 3 rushes per game, but most of the time if they pass they pass too much and then either don’t get a shot off or miss the net, or, they go in don’t even look pass and then miss the net. I think we need some new looks. Maybe Ward hasn’t had the chance to implement something, or what they have done is taking long to take effect. But to me it looks a lot the same. They have looked AHL quality in most nights I’ve watched. I think it is why the Edmonton game was so refreshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 I don’t know if it is systems or both or one or the other. When they crowd Johnny they hack and are aggressive on him. Does that change with a different system? I think having Lucic does nothing to really help that considering he could never be in that line. Is Johnny frustrated from the hacks, the 2-3 guys shadowing him, or the lack of help on his RW? Johnny looks frustrated and he doesn’t seem to have room out there. Really, the team is showing little effort. They look good on every third or fourth game and follow that up with a sleeper. i think it is a lot of things. Do the players believe in the system? Are they changing enough of the system to get different results? I guess in a system you need to be robotic and that leaves little to allow emotion? I don’t get it. a lot is happening and it’s not just one thing. It was what scared me last year when we were winning so much, because they had the history of ending up like this. Plus it usually took nearly two periods to get going and to me that doesn’t scream Cup champs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 29 minutes ago, robrob74 said: we get at least 2 or 3 rushes per game, but most of the time if they pass they pass too much and then either don’t get a shot off or miss the net, or, they go in don’t even look pass and then miss the net. I think we need some new looks. Maybe Ward hasn’t had the chance to implement something, or what they have done is taking long to take effect. But to me it looks a lot the same. They have looked AHL quality in most nights I’ve watched. I think it is why the Edmonton game was so refreshing. Something changed. They overpass because they aren't used to it. We went from a good transition team that generated odd man rushes to a slow plodding team. I don't mind the dump and chase and heavy forechecks, but that's only part of the game. I don't see the current coach being able to fix the team. The team responded with a decent record since BP left, but there was nothing left for the team to do but win. There's been enough practice time and breaks. We haven't seen any change that has been positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: Something changed. They overpass because they aren't used to it. We went from a good transition team that generated odd man rushes to a slow plodding team. I don't mind the dump and chase and heavy forechecks, but that's only part of the game. I don't see the current coach being able to fix the team. The team responded with a decent record since BP left, but there was nothing left for the team to do but win. There's been enough practice time and breaks. We haven't seen any change that has been positive. What you’re saying at the end there is what I thought. I’d also add that I think they’re winning in spite of their play. They probably deserved a tie/shootout yesterday as Ottawa wasn’t very good either. But it has been a good game followed up with 2 or 3 bad ones, then maybe a good one. They’ve been lucky to get some wins, so the record isn’t due to the coaching, nor the play of the players. It is mostly the goalies that have gotten them in the race for a division spot or the div win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, robrob74 said: What you’re saying at the end there is what I thought. I’d also add that I think they’re winning in spite of their play. They probably deserved a tie/shootout yesterday as Ottawa wasn’t very good either. But it has been a good game followed up with 2 or 3 bad ones, then maybe a good one. They’ve been lucky to get some wins, so the record isn’t due to the coaching, nor the play of the players. It is mostly the goalies that have gotten them in the race for a division spot or the div win. agreed on most, but we also have to remember any changes , especially with lines .. takes 10-15 games to see the true result - the old 1st line , and the 3M line weren't doing squat before the changes , so fine shake it up .. but ya have to leave it to let it start happening ironically both Monahan and johnny had brief resurgences just after , but it was short lived i read yesterday Ward is putting a heavy emphasis on higher danger shots .. not just taking them from way outside 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, phoenix66 said: agreed on most, but we also have to remember any changes , especially with lines .. takes 10-15 games to see the true result - the old 1st line , and the 3M line weren't doing squat before the changes , so fine shake it up .. but ya have to leave it to let it start happening ironically both Monahan and johnny had brief resurgences just after , but it was short lived i read yesterday Ward is putting a heavy emphasis on higher danger shots .. not just taking them from way outside That's nice. Perhaps he can spend time on how to generate rushes. Dump and chase is all well and good if you attack with a heavy forecheck and you don't mind spending a long shift just trying to get one shot. Ice cold Backlund has had a ton of time to get used to the top line. One might ask why that even makes sense. A struggling C moved to a position he's never excelled at. There hasn't been any signs that it's getting better. Is Ryan prodicing because of Lucic or because he is a good player? We've actually gotten worse at scoring as time has gone on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 If Claude Julien of the Habs becomes available soon, then is he someone the Flames should immediately target? I mean, unlike Gallant, Deboer, and Laviolette, he's actually won a Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, The_People1 said: If Claude Julien of the Habs becomes available soon, then is he someone the Flames should immediately target? I mean, unlike Gallant, Deboer, and Laviolette, he's actually won a Cup. Has missed the playoffs in 4 of his last 5 seasons and the Bruins took off after he left. I see no reason to target him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 7 hours ago, The_People1 said: If Claude Julien of the Habs becomes available soon, then is he someone the Flames should immediately target? I mean, unlike Gallant, Deboer, and Laviolette, he's actually won a Cup. '06 Hurricanes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 7 hours ago, cross16 said: Has missed the playoffs in 4 of his last 5 seasons and the Bruins took off after he left. I see no reason to target him. their teams haven’t had great talent though. The only reason they ever made the playoffs when Price has been the starter is because of price. So I think it is hard to judge when a Team's lack of success isn’t necessarily always due to coaching. Every coach has failed to win a cup nearly every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 Ward needs to be fluid or be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 On 1/23/2020 at 7:01 PM, robrob74 said: their teams haven’t had great talent though. The only reason they ever made the playoffs when Price has been the starter is because of price. So I think it is hard to judge when a Team's lack of success isn’t necessarily always due to coaching. Every coach has failed to win a cup nearly every year. he missed the playoffs his last 2 years with the Bruins. They fired him mid season and Bruce Cassidy took them to 18-8 and back to one of the top teams in the NHL without any major additions. I don’t disagree in regards to the separation between coaching and team talent, especially his Montreal teams. Judging coaching is imo next to impossible for fans but I’m just saying there is very little for me to suggest Julien is worth targeting given how Boston took off after he left and he’s never done anything in Montreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 8 hours ago, cross16 said: he missed the playoffs his last 2 years with the Bruins. They fired him mid season and Bruce Cassidy took them to 18-8 and back to one of the top teams in the NHL without any major additions. I don’t disagree in regards to the separation between coaching and team talent, especially his Montreal teams. Judging coaching is imo next to impossible for fans but I’m just saying there is very little for me to suggest Julien is worth targeting given how Boston took off after he left and he’s never done anything in Montreal. I just looked over his history in Boston. It isn’t like he only coached a few bad seasons. He haD been to the cup finals a number of times, won a cup, been to as far as the conference as well. the bruins did take off after, but they also went through a mini retool where they had a dip to get better again. I don’t know if he is the coach for the Flames either, but he has a decent record, even with a Montreal team that doesn’t boast a lot of talent. I think he’s doing as well as he can with what he’s got. inwould have hated if the Flames ended up having a coach coach the team to that kind of record. 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 I don't like Ward's comments about Lucic tonight. It tells me that he values the friendships with the players over the coaching aspect of the relationship. That's dangerous! It creates that country club attitude. Then when the coach has to get hard on their players, they lose the room. At least it's my theory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 6 hours ago, robrob74 said: I don't like Ward's comments about Lucic tonight. It tells me that he values the friendships with the players over the coaching aspect of the relationship. That's dangerous! It creates that country club attitude. Then when the coach has to get hard on their players, they lose the room. At least it's my theory... Ya, I just listened to his comments. I wasn’t expecting Ward to throw him under the bus per se, but a comment about more engagement from everybody would’ve sufficed as a response. Referring to his personal history with the player and dodging the question... doesn’t sit well with me. I’m sure Laviolette and Gerard were watching the game. Hopefully they were taking notes... I really believe this season can turn on a dime by bringing in another coach. Some may point to all the drama this team has experienced this year and to let them have some stability, or let Ward ride it out, not me. It’s been a bumpy ride, yes, but we’re not looking to get comfortable and complacent - but wait, aren’t we already there? We need an outside voice at the helm, not someone who was part of the old regime (Ward). Ward to me is viewed as someone who’s inherited the team and trying to salvage the season. A new coach is viewed as someone who’s going to put his stamp on the team and move forward. One carries the baggage of the past, the other looks forward to the future. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 hour ago, lou44291 said: Ya, I just listened to his comments. I wasn’t expecting Ward to throw him under the bus per se, but a comment about more engagement from everybody would’ve sufficed as a response. Referring to his personal history with the player and dodging the question... doesn’t sit well with me. I’m sure Laviolette and Gerard were watching the game. Hopefully they were taking notes... I really believe this season can turn on a dime by bringing in another coach. Some may point to all the drama this team has experienced this year and to let them have some stability, or let Ward ride it out, not me. It’s been a bumpy ride, yes, but we’re not looking to get comfortable and complacent - but wait, aren’t we already there? We need an outside voice at the helm, not someone who was part of the old regime (Ward). Ward to me is viewed as someone who’s inherited the team and trying to salvage the season. A new coach is viewed as someone who’s going to put his stamp on the team and move forward. One carries the baggage of the past, the other looks forward to the future. Exactly. We’re fooling ourselves if we think we’re actually in the playoff hunt. I’m not even convinced this team makes the playoffs at all. If they want to salvage the season they’ll need a new voice and direction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 8 hours ago, robrob74 said: I don't like Ward's comments about Lucic tonight. It tells me that he values the friendships with the players over the coaching aspect of the relationship. That's dangerous! It creates that country club attitude. Then when the coach has to get hard on their players, they lose the room. At least it's my theory... I didn't have a problem with that, that was a no win question . It to me simply means he won't throw players under the bus publicly . What he says in the dressing room (well never know ) could /should be totally different I thought about it more , and , while I'm 100% NOT giving Lucic a pass on this game , maybe the expectations were misguided . I did see him having some words with some players , don't know what he said .. but in the end nobody was hacking Johnny or other skill type players ..and that really is his job GIo, Chucky, Buddy etc..are all big boys who can take care of themselves .. even Talbot apparently Kassian was playing hockey last night..so he wasn't a target, ..if anything Khiara needed a tuneup..but again , don't know what it was Lucic said to him Ward commenting either way in the scrum though was a total no win question.. he could have maybe worded his avoidance better , but that's about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, rickross said: Exactly. We’re fooling ourselves if we think we’re actually in the playoff hunt. I’m not even convinced this team makes the playoffs at all. If they want to salvage the season they’ll need a new voice and direction. I'm still in the "not sold on Ward but not sold on replacing him either" camp.. We have to recognize last night was an abberation.. Rittich had an uncharacteristic bad game Everybody was off There were 2 major turning points to me . 1st, we were down 2-0 in less than 2 min 2nd , Talbot getting ejected when we were showing signs of fightn and comeback led by him . Even he said he never thought that was a possibility, just expected a major Not sure what Ward could have done differently behind the bench to change any of that For the most part ..our team typically starts fast, has a decent powerplay and even in losses keeps games close We ARE realistically still not only in the thick of a playoff hunt but also for first place. You want to bring in a Gallant or a Laviolette, fine, those are long term solutions, but right now Ward is as much responsible for where we are as he is responsible for the shortfalls . I don't feel coaching is our issue right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, rickross said: Exactly. We’re fooling ourselves if we think we’re actually in the playoff hunt. I’m not even convinced this team makes the playoffs at all. If they want to salvage the season they’ll need a new voice and direction. Playoff hunt is one thing. We are in it. Expectations for going far are another. Let's face it. About half this team is frustrated with the way the team is playing and their play shows it. Top line is playing with a career AHL'er and before that a defensive C on RW. Before that, I can;t even tell you. If your top line is put together with scraps, they will lose that killer instinct. Last night's Buddy goal was like playing Gaudreau's brother for a game; great story, move on. Backlund looks like someone stole his toys. He neither engages physically nor even tries to catch players. A shakeup is necessary. The lines and pairs are tried and tested, but are failing. The PP looks like we are waiting for one player to do something, and they all want someone else to do it. The defensive strategy looks like a swarm, which worked so well for Eakins. The breakout is skate everyone out of the zone and try to hit them from 50 feet. Or dump and chase using skill guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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