Geoff Ward, Flames 18 th coach

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Are we not already?

 

The very strong general consensus I am seeing out there, and it's almost unanimous among people I talk with, is that this team needs changes. However, it is possible, and IMO the right answer, to see that you need to make changes to your core and you need an upgrade at head coach. 

 

Both conclusions are independent of each other. 

 

The only things we don't know are what changes are needed.

Some say Johnny.

Others say we need a #1C.

Still others are calling for a change to the D core.

 

As far as the coach goes, we can't just give a guy the reins if he can't figure out what direction to drive.

At times we seem rudderless.

Almost like we have a bunch of individuals that can't think collectively.

[Horsman1]

priorities

 

 

 First must be to solve the coaching issue with the head coach and assistants.. Next is the Taylor Hall issue.. If Hall is coming here.. then all we have room is for him and Tkachuck.. no Jonny hockey or mangiapane or Domi.. Proper structure is of utmost importance.. next.. do we keep Ryan at his cost?? I vote yes.. Then the Defence.. Where are we headed.. Is Gio still captain or being shipped.. no new players should be added until the current core mess is cleaned up

 

 

[travel_dude]

23 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

priorities

 

 

 First must be to solve the coaching issue with the head coach and assistants.. Next is the Taylor Hall issue.. If Hall is coming here.. then all we have room is for him and Tkachuck.. no Jonny hockey or mangiapane or Domi.. Proper structure is of utmost importance.. next.. do we keep Ryan at his cost?? I vote yes.. Then the Defence.. Where are we headed.. Is Gio still captain or being shipped.. no new players should be added until the current core mess is cleaned up

 

 

 

So, what is the problem with the core?

Unless you can define it and point to one or two players that create the problems or fix the underlying reason, you aren't doing much.

We've had a variety of coaches, but none of them have managed to do anything to adjust to the playoffs.

Ward didn't adjust properly.

BP wasn't able to change even after we won the first game while giving up a ton of shots.

Gully was useless.

 

I'm not letting the team off the hook.

Maybe we had a string of extremely useless coaches.

Won't know for sure until some trades are made or a new coach is brought in.

 

Ryan is a good player, but in a cap world it's tough to justify over $3m for a #4C.

[tmac70]

14 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

That's a bit extreme .  The last 2 coaches missed the playoffs  to get fired. 

 

I realize on paper this is a first round exit , but realistically we won the first round .

 

Fan 960 made a great point this morning. If the BP fiasco hadn't happened , and it was still him in charge with the same results .Would we be calling for his firing?

I think we'd be talking about the core being the issue for once 

We view things differently. We won a play in not a first round ,which imho was more embarrassing than lsst year. Is Ward A nice guy appears to be. The x and o game is not there. He rediscovered Bennett by accident, we rode a hot goalie for a few games till he Satoshi Nakamoto the bed. Ward didn't move the needle on coaching and the palyers never looked more or less motivated than last year. Coach players there needs to br a cleansing of debris

[robrob74]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

So, what is the problem with the core?

Unless you can define it and point to one or two players that create the problems or fix the underlying reason, you aren't doing much.

We've had a variety of coaches, but none of them have managed to do anything to adjust to the playoffs.

Ward didn't adjust properly.

BP wasn't able to change even after we won the first game while giving up a ton of shots.

Gully was useless.

 

I'm not letting the team off the hook.

Maybe we had a string of extremely useless coaches.

Won't know for sure until some trades are made or a new coach is brought in.

 

Ryan is a good player, but in a cap world it's tough to justify over $3m for a #4C.

 

Gaudreau an Monahan, no shows more often than than they are for a better part of two seasons. We need more from those core players. They’re paid to perform every night and it’s not happening. That sets a tone.

[sak22]

13 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Gaudreau an Monahan, no shows more often than than they are for a better part of two seasons. We need more from those core players. They’re paid to perform every night and it’s not happening. That sets a tone.

I agree, but would also say the reliance on coaching on keeping them together is a downfall on coaching.  I remember times Chicago would have periods in their cup runs where they weren't getting much out of the top guys, so Q would put Kane and Toews together for a bit and separate them again when they dried up, even Pittsburgh has done the Malkin-Crosby together from time to time, for me its the most frustrating part.  Things get harder in the playoffs give a team a different look from what every team in the league has seen for the past 5 years where the only wrench is a different RW.  They have been joined at the hip since 2015 even recently got engaged on the same weekend, would have just liked to see what/if they could do anything away from the other.

[jjgallow]

45 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I agree, but would also say the reliance on coaching on keeping them together is a downfall on coaching. 

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I remember times Chicago would have periods in their cup runs where they weren't getting much out of the top guys, so Q would put Kane and Toews together for a bit and separate them again when they dried up,

 

If you can reverse time and get a 22 year old Kane and Toews into the Calgary Flames lineup, I guarantee you Ward or any other coach out there will try these guys both together and apart.

 

45 minutes ago, sak22 said:

even Pittsburgh has done the Malkin-Crosby together from time to time, for me its the most frustrating part.  Things get harder in the playoffs give a team a different look from what every team in the league has seen for the past 5 years where the only wrench is a different RW.  They have been joined at the hip since 2015 even recently got engaged on the same weekend, would have just liked to see what/if they could do anything away from the other.

 

Again if we had a young Malkin Crosby in our lineup, we...  would not be having this conversation.

 

 

A coach can't fix the fact that we don't have anyone who is notable in the NHL out side our own city.  Teams don't come here fearing Gaudreau.  And quite frankly, in the playoffs, they never have even in his peak.    Monahan is not a Malkin, not a Crosby, not a Toews and not a Kane.     Maybe at one time he had that potential before we rushed his development.

 

Bring the best coach int he world in to manage Gaudreau and Monahan, we're still getting blown out of every first round, if we make the playoffs at all.  Period.

 

 

We need to start being a little more realistic with what we have, which is very little unless you count the players we've lost (Hamilton, Fox etc) to aweful trades.   Maybe this rebuild might have worked if it wasn't disassembled by incompetent decisions halfway through.

 

The problem here lies with the GM and/or up from there.   Coaches can't fix this.

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

 

 

If you can reverse time and get a 22 year old Kane and Toews into the Calgary Flames lineup, I guarantee you Ward or any other coach out there will try these guys both together and apart.

 

 

Again if we had a young Malkin Crosby in our lineup, we...  would not be having this conversation.

 

 

A coach can't fix the fact that we don't have anyone who is notable in the NHL out side our own city.  Teams don't come here fearing Gaudreau.  And quite frankly, in the playoffs, they never have even in his peak.    Monahan is not a Malkin, not a Crosby, not a Toews and not a Kane.     Maybe at one time he had that potential before we rushed his development.

 

Bring the best coach int he world in to manage Gaudreau and Monahan, we're still getting blown out of every first round, if we make the playoffs at all.  Period.

 

 

We need to start being a little more realistic with what we have, which is very little unless you count the players we've lost (Hamilton, Fox etc) to aweful trades.   Maybe this rebuild might have worked if it wasn't disassembled by incompetent decisions halfway through.

 

The problem here lies with the GM and/or up from there.   Coaches can't fix this.

 

Blown out eh?

Last year we lost to a good team because we couldn't close out 2 OT games.

This year we blew a one goal lead in the last part of the 3rd to go up 3-1.

 

The true statement is we lost in round one every year since VAN.

Poor coaching and poor play last year cost us the 1st round.

Poor coaching cost us the 1st round this year.

Doesn't matter that we had trouble containing anyone.

It does matter that we were winning in the series and in the final game, but managed to be outcoached.

 

You can lump the core together and say they can't win, but you overlook the problems 50% of the playoff teams have.

Key player hurt, poor coaching decisions, top line shut down, playing top line as a shut down line, etc. etc..

 

I think the team has some issues that can be fixed.

Better coaching strategies, ability to swap players, not relying on useless thugs, etc. etc.

Sacrifice a good player in trade to get better elsewhere.

This team had the ability to be tops in the West, so it's not a stretch to say they can do it again.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think the team has some issues that can be fixed.

 

I know you do and I love that about you but realistically you think this...Every year lol.  

 

Positive spins aside the Flames have lost 9 out of their last 12 playoff games since Vancouver, missing the playoffs entirely, twice.  Yes they won 2 games this year but overall I would say they performed worse against a far easier team than they did the previous year.   They're already on a decline which will quickly steapen.

 

One way or another we have some high draft picks ahead of us these next few years, even if we don't rebuild.  And if they do it right, we'll All have an easier time putting positive spins on things

[tmac70]

13 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Gaudreau an Monahan, no shows more often than than they are for a better part of two seasons. We need more from those core players. They’re paid to perform every night and it’s not happening. That sets a tone.

I hear what your saying but thry are not the only two that were no shows. Mony is mony but Gaudreau has been keyed on. Most teams know the play orientates around him. Just imagine a line that moved with pace if we had a guy that could asssit in pushing the d back balance an attack, JG is a secondary threat now. Vancouver just lost out, but there was a team that stuck to the system and bought in, way better coached hot goaile. We lost as we were out coached players bought into a coaching system that is poor and our tender had one bad game. Does the top line deserve the heat partially but maybe they are not as good as we project them tobe 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

I hear what your saying but thry are not the only two that were no shows. Mony is mony but Gaudreau has been keyed on. Most teams know the play orientates around him. Just imagine a line that moved with pace if we had a guy that could asssit in pushing the d back balance an attack, JG is a secondary threat now. Vancouver just lost out, but there was a team that stuck to the system and bought in, way better coached hot goaile. We lost as we were out coached players bought into a coaching system that is poor and our tender had one bad game. Does the top line deserve the heat partially but maybe they are not as good as we project them tobe 

 

not only that I feel that this core has not fully bought into a coaches systems 100%. or 100% of the time. 
 

I still think it’s coach. If players don’t respect their coach, they’re not going to buy in. 
 

it’s a tough call because it sounds like Green is a hard Hash Rate, but then again is being demanding a bad thing? 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

A Dallas loss last night might have made Treliving's coaching search a lot easier.

 

WSH is believed to be the frontrunner for Laviolette. It seems to be a perfect fit to me.

 

DAL was linked to Gallant for a while. I just don't see how they can go away from Bowness, he's taken him farther than Ruff/Hitch/Montgomery.

 

I've been banging on this drum for a while, but Gallant would be very high on my list. Players seem to love playing for him and he maximizes the talents of his teams. Now it depends on what his ask is, but it's believed that coaches salaries will be impacted greatly, just like players.

 

I just look at Ward and see a very similar coach to Gulutzan. There will be changes to the roster, but you can't trade everyone. The majority of this team tuned out Gulutzan after one season, wouldn't be a surprise if they do the same to Ward. 

[phoenix66]

On 9/3/2020 at 11:19 PM, tmac70 said:

We view things differently. We won a play in not a first round ,which imho was more embarrassing than lsst year. Is Ward A nice guy appears to be. The x and o game is not there. He rediscovered Bennett by accident, we rode a hot goalie for a few games till he Satoshi Nakamoto the bed. Ward didn't move the needle on coaching and the palyers never looked more or less motivated than last year. Coach players there needs to br a cleansing of debris

Wow , we really were watching different games weren't we.

 

last year I saw a team that was stunned.. Gave up .. had no answers. Had no idea how to find another gear.

Kept throwing the topline out hoping for the magic to return.

Outclassed.. out chanced...out played

If you saw that this year ,maybe you need to let the sting of the loss die down a bit so you can see clearly

 

This year i saw a team with 100% buy in .. i saw no disengaged passengers like I did last year 

Players were in situations they needed to be in ..

In case you didn't notice , this team just took out Colorado too.. doing the same things  they did to us

 

The "veteran savvy coach" Bowness even made a goalie blunder of his own ..going back to Bishop ( and btw also didnt call a time out before he pulled him... OMG ..horror.. fire him now ! ) 

 

No .. this one was pure personell...

Needed Tkachuk..

Needed someone other than Forbort trying to replace Hamonic's role of ugly Defensive hockey ..shot blocking ..crease clearing etc 

Needed Johnny to actually bury a chance or 2 that , to his credit , he WAS creating .

 

Nope ..this one is NOT on the coach .. like I said a few times , unless you're hiring a Laviolette ,nobody else is worth the step back we'll need to take to mold this team around another coach 

 

But then hey , I'm sure Bednar is about to get fired right ?    

 

 

[The_People1]

Sometimes you have to get lucky.  The Jets didn't have their two best players.  We win.  Then we lose our best player, the Stars beat us.  Then the Avs lost their two goalies and their best shut down Dman, and the Stars beat the Avs.

[cross16]

43 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Wow , we really were watching different games weren't we.

 

last year I saw a team that was stunned.. Gave up .. had no answers. Had no idea how to find another gear.

Kept throwing the topline out hoping for the magic to return.

Outclassed.. out chanced...out played

If you saw that this year ,maybe you need to let the sting of the loss die down a bit so you can see clearly

 

This year i saw a team with 100% buy in .. i saw no disengaged passengers like I did last year 

Players were in situations they needed to be in ..

In case you didn't notice , this team just took out Colorado too.. doing the same things  they did to us

 

The "veteran savvy coach" Bowness even made a goalie blunder of his own ..going back to Bishop ( and btw also didnt call a time out before he pulled him... OMG ..horror.. fire him now ! ) 

 

No .. this one was pure personell...

Needed Tkachuk..

Needed someone other than Forbort trying to replace Hamonic's role of ugly Defensive hockey ..shot blocking ..crease clearing etc 

Needed Johnny to actually bury a chance or 2 that , to his credit , he WAS creating .

 

Nope ..this one is NOT on the coach .. like I said a few times , unless you're hiring a Laviolette ,nobody else is worth the step back we'll need to take to mold this team around another coach 

 

But then hey , I'm sure Bednar is about to get fired right ?    

 

 

Bednars team outplayed the Stars in the series and if it weren’t for him having to play his 3rd string goalie they almost for sure win the series. Contrast that with the Flames who got out played by the Stars in their series and goaltending kept them in it. 

[phoenix66]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Bednars team outplayed the Stars in the series and if it weren’t for him having to play his 3rd string goalie they almost for sure win the series. Contrast that with the Flames who got out played by the Stars in their series and goaltending kept them in it. 

One blocked shot,. One puck into an empty net,  one pass not shot wide .  Any one of those things  and we win the series..  

 

If we weren't getting the chances, I'd be blaming coaching too.. 

 

And we were missing Tkachuk and our best defensive Dman .. Stars were without their # goalie . You can't let one off the hook and not the other 

 

And still nobody is answering the question.. if this were still BP behind the bench and the results were the same ..are we calling for BPs head?  Likely not 

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

Wow , we really were watching different games weren't we.

 

last year I saw a team that was stunned.. Gave up .. had no answers. Had no idea how to find another gear.

Kept throwing the topline out hoping for the magic to return.

Outclassed.. out chanced...out played

If you saw that this year ,maybe you need to let the sting of the loss die down a bit so you can see clearly

 

This year i saw a team with 100% buy in .. i saw no disengaged passengers like I did last year 

Players were in situations they needed to be in ..

In case you didn't notice , this team just took out Colorado too.. doing the same things  they did to us

 

The "veteran savvy coach" Bowness even made a goalie blunder of his own ..going back to Bishop ( and btw also didnt call a time out before he pulled him... OMG ..horror.. fire him now ! ) 

 

No .. this one was pure personell...

Needed Tkachuk..

Needed someone other than Forbort trying to replace Hamonic's role of ugly Defensive hockey ..shot blocking ..crease clearing etc 

Needed Johnny to actually bury a chance or 2 that , to his credit , he WAS creating .

 

Nope ..this one is NOT on the coach .. like I said a few times , unless you're hiring a Laviolette ,nobody else is worth the step back we'll need to take to mold this team around another coach 

 

But then hey , I'm sure Bednar is about to get fired right ?    

 

 

We do it view it differently, which is fine. This team has no structure, they didn't buy in maybe a small portion of the roster did. Unfortunalty the x's and O 's are far less insuffient on this club, the structure of this club from a coaching level, was not going to get you far. What I seen this year was exactly the same of not more embarrassing this year. Poor coaching and a mentally weak roster. We have had a merry go round of coaches, but the issue is you need a cleansing of both. Tre needs to maek a statement bring is a proven guy not a wnat to be or hoepfully and stand behind him. If the players are not performing than see ya. This roster reminds of the three bears, to hard to soft and just right but the results never change. I like Ward as an assitant but he didn't move the needle for me or many others with he is the guy that can provide the spark to make you a contender. The game plan is weak and it showed. 

[phoenix66]

3 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

We do it view it differently, which is fine. This team has no structure, they didn't buy in maybe a small portion of the roster did. Unfortunalty the x's and O 's are far less insuffient on this club, the structure of this club from a coaching level, was not going to get you far. What I seen this year was exactly the same of not more embarrassing this year. Poor coaching and a mentally weak roster. We have had a merry go round of coaches, but the issue is you need a cleansing of both. Tre needs to maek a statement bring is a proven guy not a wnat to be or hoepfully and stand behind him. If the players are not performing than see ya. This roster reminds of the three bears, to hard to soft and just right but the results never change. I like Ward as an assitant but he didn't move the needle for me or many others with he is the guy that can provide the spark to make you a contender. The game plan is weak and it showed. 

Well on the plus side... Tre says he's close to making an announcement..  i think could be as early as tomorrow since it's a league day off .

There have been no reports of any permissions or interviews..  so I'd bet money Ward gets the job and we can all stop speculation and set our sights on getting him a quality associate coach

 

[JTech780]

My guess is that if Ward was the guy, it would have been done by now. I think they are actively interviewing other candidates, via zoom of course.

[phoenix66]

3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

My guess is that if Ward was the guy, it would have been done by now. I think they are actively interviewing other candidates, via zoom of course.

Not necessarily.. your 3 big names all need permission.. and so far the only permission request to get out has been Washington and Laviolette

Friedman is usually great at those and he said he hasn't heard Calgary asking anybody for permission. And BT says he is "days not weeks" from "finalizing the process " 

[cross16]

I fully expect Ward will be the guy but I think that it is a mistake. For some reason this is centering only around the playoffs and ignoring that the entire body of work under Him which is mediocre at best. The playoffs for me just confirmed he isn’t the guy because he made far too many errors in bench management. 
 

It should be more about process than results and for me when you look at the process under Ward it wasn’t good enough to make him the permanent coach. 
 

the “delay” I suspect is more about Treliving taking his time and looking at the whole staff and filling out the bench. 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

It should be more about process than results . 

 

hmm

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I fully expect Ward will be the guy but I think that it is a mistake. For some reason this is centering only around the playoffs and ignoring that the entire body of work under Him which is mediocre at best. The playoffs for me just confirmed he isn’t the guy because he made far too many errors in bench management. 
 

It should be more about process than results and for me when you look at the process under Ward it wasn’t good enough to make him the permanent coach. 
 

the “delay” I suspect is more about Treliving taking his time and looking at the whole staff and filling out the bench. 

But of the 4 coaches BT has had I'd say easily the best of the 4

Should have hired him instead of GG

If any of the other 3 had this ad their lastest season on their resume , I don't see anybody them getting fired.

Outside of Laviolette, and even he has a few .. no other option comes without major flags and questions.. 

There is no Quenneville.. ironically this is the prefect team to now hand over to Vigneault.. 

 

That to me just leaves one 

[robrob74]

For me, I saw a team, again, playing a tentative game. For a skilled team they’re not a very smart team. It’s the same team that came back having to figure out GG after playing his system the year before and missing the playoffs. 
 

maybe there was but-in, but to me, the fact they were just going through the motions doesn’t allow them to play with passion. To me that’s not second nature that full buy-in teams become. I saw it with the Bennett line, but aside from that I felt the rest of the team was treading water. I liked that they were engaged and skating, but also it felt like running on a treadmill, not really getting anywhere. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

But of the 4 coaches BT has had I'd say easily the best of the 4

Should have hired him instead of GG

If any of the other 3 had this ad their lastest season on their resume , I don't see anybody them getting fired.

Outside of Laviolette, and even he has a few .. no other option comes without major flags and questions.. 

There is no Quenneville.. ironically this is the prefect team to now hand over to Vigneault.. 

 

That to me just leaves one 

 

I think it’s too early to tell. GG looked great in the first year and the second year he looked like Satoshi Nakamoto. Same with most of the first year with peters.