Geoff Ward, Flames 18 th coach

[redfire11]

Full of enthusiasm!!! Well put Conundrum

 

With our record at home and against lessor teams!

 

With a $10 spots select what would you select V or H?

[travel_dude]

41 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Full of enthusiasm like the rest of us, I see. lol

Should win, so what will go wrong?

My guess is they make Miller look like he's in his prime.

Happy to be wrong, of course.

We're at 61 here. Is this team any good?

 

I am actually thinking we make the playoffs.

My trepidation is that we are playing teams that don't prove anything.

Beating ANA twice doesn;t prove anything.

Losing today doesn't either.

 

The coach isn;t doing the team any favors.

The team is playing up and down.

The PP is bringing the team down; power kill.

 

What have we learned from Hanifin playing the PP this season - he isn't helping.

Neither unit has looked good with him on it.

He doesn't have the thought process to QB it.

 

It's up to the team to decide if they are a playoff team.

But the coach has to support that by making smart choices.

What has work and what has not.

 

[JTech780]

Sign him for the rest of the season.

[travel_dude]

48 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Sign him for the rest of the season.

 

Too funny.

He would definately remold the D.

Almost looking forward to the expressions from him....

 

[Carty]

Said it before, but I would definitely vote for Darryl Sutter to come in and coach this team...

[89Again]

Yikes, like the brown stuff on a wagon wheel it just keeps coming around!  What we dont need is a continuous revolving door of coaches.  Give Ward the season, and make a solid call in the off season. 

[rickross]

2 hours ago, 89Again said:

Yikes, like the brown stuff on a wagon wheel it just keeps coming around!  What we dont need is a continuous revolving door of coaches.  Give Ward the season, and make a solid call in the off season. 

Unfortunately the door will continue to revolve, I had faith in Ward. Not so much anymore, the fact that we’re still juggling lines with more than 60 games played Isn’t a good sign. Can’t expect any consistency in our play and that’s exactly what we’ve been is inconsistent. Makes sense to let Ward see it through but there are too many high caliber head coaches available right now. I will thank Ward now for his services 

[Carty]

Wardo was put in to fill the job out of necessity in an unforeseen urgent situation when there really wasn't much of a choice...   They were put in a bind, without notice...

 

It is important to remember, he was not given the job as the coach, and still has not been named as the coach...   He was named as the "Interim" coach...   and that is still his title...

 

Hiring a new coach to replace the interim coach isn't the same as firing one that was hired under contract to be the head coach, and then hiring a new one...   The definition of interim is "the intervening time"...   and in this case the intent was to fill the position for the time in between releasing the coach they felt they had to fire, for as long as is necessary for them to decide who they wand to hire and sign a contract with to officially name as head coach...   It would be different if they had dropped the interim title, but they haven't...

 

 

[cross16]

According to Ryan Pike, Flames won't address the coach until the know what the rest of the season holds. 

 

This on the heels of news Gallant is interviewing in New Jersey. Which is interesting as the rumors have always been he is Detroit bound. 

 

 

[The_People1]

58 minutes ago, cross16 said:

According to Ryan Pike, Flames won't address the coach until the know what the rest of the season holds. 

 

This on the heels of news Gallant is interviewing in New Jersey. Which is interesting as the rumors have always been he is Detroit bound. 

 

 

 

That's too bad.  We should be interviewing Gallant too. 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

According to Ryan Pike, Flames won't address the coach until the know what the rest of the season holds. 

 

This on the heels of news Gallant is interviewing in New Jersey. Which is interesting as the rumors have always been he is Detroit bound. 

 

 

 

I get it's only about a half of a season, but as a fan, I just can't see how Ward has "definitely impressed" aside from his record. What does the record look like apart from his first say those first 7-10 games that he coached where the team was impressive. I think that was more due to the change from a very poor start and situation, where they need a breath of fresh air, and the team could finally breathe. 

 

After that, how do they look? Most coaches have a good start on a new team in a coaching change. When do you see the real coaching? I think the record is still good, but I guess that's all you see when you look at numbers. 

 

I wouldn't say Ward is the guy to win a cup with, but I think he has been nearly as good as say Playfair (who didn't really get a good chance). 

 

I can see why you think this team can be good. I just don't think they've been good, which is why I say they're an okay team. I agree they deserve a playoff spot or the opportunity to fight for one. I don't see them as Cup material (yet?). Given they can play with anyone if they put their minds to it, I wish they'd find a way to put their minds to it almost every night. I get ebbs and flows in a game and a season, but the team has looked tentative for most of this one, with a few games where they show glimpses. Ward hasn't really pushed them over the tentative edge they're on. They're getting results, but for me, it isn't the kind of hockey that will win in the playoffs. 

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

They're getting results, but for me, it isn't the kind of hockey that will win in the playoffs. 

 

110%

 

The structure is either not there or the coach failed to sell the message. Either way, we won games mostly on skill alone and structure is loosey goosey at best.   We need better X's and O's and team unity.  Attack and defend as a 5-man unit as opposed to tandems and individuals.

[cross16]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's too bad.  We should be interviewing Gallant too. 

 

Difficult to do in a public setting when you have a coach who the players like and you are in the playoff race should the league come back. i get it likely won't but I until it's officially cancelled I think the Flames are in a tough position to do anything publicly but back Ward. 

 

Listen, i'm not a big fan of Geoff Ward on a number of fronts but I do think he deserves more credit than he gets and I think I understand the "definitely impressed" idea Pike is getting at. This team was heading towards a disaster of a season and a lottery pick. Basically no one, other than Rittich, was pulling the right way you had players upset (Lucic and Talbot now have both confirmed they weren't happy to start), then you walk into the whole Peters situation. I think that would have been difficult to recover for some teams and the season could have turned into a write off, so to go from there to the 9th best Point % since says something. Even put the record aside and look at the different in the players attitudes. Lucic and Talbot, both upset to start, are now saying it's one of the best groups they've been a part of. Gaudreau went from sulking to his borderline MVP self, Backlund dominated etc etc. IMO, the hardest job a coach has in today's game is to manage the players and I think you have to admit what Ward has done in that category is very impressive.  

 

There are many problems and i'm by no means saying he should be the permanent coach. There is a huge weakness on X and Os and in game strategy but all i'm saying is there are parts of his work that are pretty impressive too. Think we need to be more fair. 

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Difficult to do in a public setting when you have a coach who the players like and you are in the playoff race should the league come back. i get it likely won't but I until it's officially cancelled I think the Flames are in a tough position to do anything publicly but back Ward. 

 

Listen, i'm not a big fan of Geoff Ward on a number of fronts but I do think he deserves more credit than he gets and I think I understand the "definitely impressed" idea Pike is getting at. This team was heading towards a disaster of a season and a lottery pick. Basically no one, other than Rittich, was pulling the right way you had players upset (Lucic and Talbot now have both confirmed they weren't happy to start), then you walk into the whole Peters situation. I think that would have been difficult to recover for some teams and the season could have turned into a write off, so to go from there to the 9th best Point % since says something. Even put the record aside and look at the different in the players attitudes. Lucic and Talbot, both upset to start, are now saying it's one of the best groups they've been a part of. Gaudreau went from sulking to his borderline MVP self, Backlund dominated etc etc. IMO, the hardest job a coach has in today's game is to manage the players and I think you have to admit what Ward has done in that category is very impressive.  

 

There are many problems and i'm by no means saying he should be the permanent coach. There is a huge weakness on X and Os and in game strategy but all i'm saying is there are parts of his work that are pretty impressive too. Think we need to be more fair. 

 

Hmm that doesn't sound like a vote of confidence that a team that wants to win the Cup would give.  It sounds like he deserves a participation award.  

 

We need a guy who can do impressive in more than some parts of his work.  We need an NHL top 5 coach.

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Difficult to do in a public setting when you have a coach who the players like and you are in the playoff race should the league come back. i get it likely won't but I until it's officially cancelled I think the Flames are in a tough position to do anything publicly but back Ward. 

 

Listen, i'm not a big fan of Geoff Ward on a number of fronts but I do think he deserves more credit than he gets and I think I understand the "definitely impressed" idea Pike is getting at. This team was heading towards a disaster of a season and a lottery pick. Basically no one, other than Rittich, was pulling the right way you had players upset (Lucic and Talbot now have both confirmed they weren't happy to start), then you walk into the whole Peters situation. I think that would have been difficult to recover for some teams and the season could have turned into a write off, so to go from there to the 9th best Point % since says something. Even put the record aside and look at the different in the players attitudes. Lucic and Talbot, both upset to start, are now saying it's one of the best groups they've been a part of. Gaudreau went from sulking to his borderline MVP self, Backlund dominated etc etc. IMO, the hardest job a coach has in today's game is to manage the players and I think you have to admit what Ward has done in that category is very impressive.  

 

There are many problems and i'm by no means saying he should be the permanent coach. There is a huge weakness on X and Os and in game strategy but all i'm saying is there are parts of his work that are pretty impressive too. Think we need to be more fair. 

 

 

He also took Backlund away from his natural position and rendered him useless for a few months. He only became dominant when he went back to C. It wasn't until he put things back to the way they were when they were working for the first half of the season last year (for the most part) that the team started to look a bit better, or that Gaudreau started to play like himself again. 

 

I almost think that anyone could have done what Ward has done, they needed a new face for a head coach. I don't know what Peters did in the dressing room, or if it was just the idea of playing favourites, but something looked really off this year, and possibly from the ASB in the 2018-19 season. I get that we wouldn't know as it was actually Ward who did it. 

 

I have to say, he did a great job of distracting from what was happening. Changing things up in practice, playing music, playing other games other than hockey, getting the guys together to bring them back as a team. That is one thing that I think was lacking since last year. The team stopped playing for each other it seems. Guys started doing things on their own. Once that initial start wore off, I feel like they were average and below average in play, but relied on talent to score in opportune times.

 

Maybe hockey HAS changed too much for me and my expectations ARE too high! I don't really think I am that hard to please though. For me, if I saw that they were giving an honest effort, I am quite okay with losses and average seasons. It's when they play lacklustre hockey for three-quarters of a game that has me frustrated. I don't mind seeing a game where the play is 50-50 split between both teams, at least you know both are engaged in the game. Maybe hockey has changed so much and I am just realizing. 

 

I became an avid fan in 89. I feel like watching from '89 until about the 2007 or 2008 season I liked the way that teams tried. Somewhere in Iginla's captaincy the Flames started to play country-club hockey. And aside from a year or two with Hartley, one season with GG, and a half of a season with Peters, it's the kind of hockey I see with the team, Country-Club.

 

I got off track there. I guess that's not quite Ward though either. But they've shown they can play tentative yet be engaged. They have been engaged just enough to have a decent record. But being engaged just enough isn't enough when it matters most.

[cross16]

17 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I almost think that anyone could have done what Ward has done, they needed a new face for a head coach. I don't know what Peters did in the dressing room, or if it was just the idea of playing favourites, but something looked really off this year, and possibly from the ASB in the 2018-19 season. I get that we wouldn't know as it was actually Ward who did it. 

 

I have to say, he did a great job of distracting from what was happening. Changing things up in practice, playing music, playing other games other than hockey, getting the guys together to bring them back as a team. That is one thing that I think was lacking since last year. The team stopped playing for each other it seems. Guys started doing things on their own. Once that initial start wore off, I feel like they were average and below average in play, but relied on talent to score in opportune times.

 

I think you answered your own questions/contradicted yourself. Anyone could have done what he did but then acknowledge he did things differently and a great job navigating a situation that most don't have to deal with it? I think many of the strategies he employed are very different and not common to see form coaches. From cancelling/changing practices, workload management, line ideas, communication ideas (for example getting player input on lines) he did things different so i'm not sure it's fair to say anyone could have done what he did. But again, that doesn't mean there were not problems or areas where Ward fell short. There are many of those, but the idea of what i'm getting at is there are some very impressive areas too so it makes sense why Pike would make a comment like he "definitely impressed". 

 

I may be wrong on this but i'm very skeptical we will see anyone but Geoff Ward as the coach next year. Flames are already a tough draw for a marquee coach but with this COVID pandemic and the crash in oil I think it's even more unlikely that the Flames are going to open up their budget to be able to pay a Gallant/Laviolette. Likely to be a bit of a tough go for the organization in the near future. 

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I think you answered your own questions/contradicted yourself. Anyone could have done what he did but then acknowledge he did things differently and a great job navigating a situation that most don't have to deal with it? I think many of the strategies he employed are very different and not common to see form coaches. From cancelling/changing practices, workload management, line ideas, communication ideas (for example getting player input on lines) he did things different so i'm not sure it's fair to say anyone could have done what he did. But again, that doesn't mean there were not problems or areas where Ward fell short. There are many of those, but the idea of what i'm getting at is there are some very impressive areas too so it makes sense why Pike would make a comment like he "definitely impressed". 

 

I may be wrong on this but i'm very skeptical we will see anyone but Geoff Ward as the coach next year. Flames are already a tough draw for a marquee coach but with this COVID pandemic and the crash in oil I think it's even more unlikely that the Flames are going to open up their budget to be able to pay a Gallant/Laviolette. Likely to be a bit of a tough go for the organization in the near future. 

 

 

I don't think I want to sound too negative about it. It's like you said, he does deserve credit so I had to point out the positives. I just think after those first 10 games or something like that, the team went back to looking tentative and disorganized. Maybe it is just a sensitive team and on other teams Ward might be a better coach? 

 

If he could get the guys playing consistent hockey, I would think different, but he just hasn't yet. on the sheet it looks better. The product on ice has been slightly better too.I just don't think championship material. At the beginning of the year that was the expectation, to contend.

[jjgallow]

 

I'm a fan of Geoff Ward.  Always have been.   I think he is a big reason why we had some successful years of development and he's a big reason why the Flames didn't "crash and burn" this year.   I've been quite critical of our players and management but there's no denying that overall the Flames did have a pretty ok season.

 

I point to Geoff Ward for that.

 

For those of you who see the poor play and the disorganisation I say hey..  maybe these players aren't the world-beaters we think they are.   Maybe when half your forward line is under 5'8 and you repeatedly make deals to acquire sloppy defence and there is no plan to acquire a serious goalie....

 

And when the entire right-hand side of the ice is vacant of talent,

 

Well...  Maybe you have to give the coach a little credit for making us look ok.    It's management's job to make sure all the positions are well managed, the coach works with what he has and on that front I give Geoff full marks.    I think the organization knows too.  But if he left, I think we'd get a Harsh reality-checkup on what we really have here.

[travel_dude]

On 4/22/2020 at 8:55 AM, cross16 said:

 

Difficult to do in a public setting when you have a coach who the players like and you are in the playoff race should the league come back. i get it likely won't but I until it's officially cancelled I think the Flames are in a tough position to do anything publicly but back Ward. 

 

Listen, i'm not a big fan of Geoff Ward on a number of fronts but I do think he deserves more credit than he gets and I think I understand the "definitely impressed" idea Pike is getting at. This team was heading towards a disaster of a season and a lottery pick. Basically no one, other than Rittich, was pulling the right way you had players upset (Lucic and Talbot now have both confirmed they weren't happy to start), then you walk into the whole Peters situation. I think that would have been difficult to recover for some teams and the season could have turned into a write off, so to go from there to the 9th best Point % since says something. Even put the record aside and look at the different in the players attitudes. Lucic and Talbot, both upset to start, are now saying it's one of the best groups they've been a part of. Gaudreau went from sulking to his borderline MVP self, Backlund dominated etc etc. IMO, the hardest job a coach has in today's game is to manage the players and I think you have to admit what Ward has done in that category is very impressive.  

 

There are many problems and i'm by no means saying he should be the permanent coach. There is a huge weakness on X and Os and in game strategy but all i'm saying is there are parts of his work that are pretty impressive too. Think we need to be more fair. 

 

I'm not a fan, but that is the in-game stuff and some of his vurious decisions.

The team was winning in spite of his decisions.

With that, you are correct in saying that he was a good teaching style coach.

But we do need that guy who has a better grasp of the game.

 

Remove a few of the players that were used in the wrong situations.

Add a bit of attention to detail.

Be able to show that to the players who have a talent to execute without any really good strategies.

Replace the goalie coach because he's unable to develop anyone.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not a fan, but that is the in-game stuff and some of his vurious decisions.

The team was winning in spite of his decisions.

With that, you are correct in saying that he was a good teaching style coach.

But we do need that guy who has a better grasp of the game.

 

Remove a few of the players that were used in the wrong situations.

Add a bit of attention to detail.

Be able to show that to the players who have a talent to execute without any really good strategies.

Replace the goalie coach because he's unable to develop anyone.

 

I agree. 
plus with the goalie coach, get someone in who can develop a goalie, plus have a good deployment Plan. I get the position is a crapshoot at times, and the way the goalies feel can mean momentum or slide. But I think Rittich was burnt out too. His history has been 1A/1B goaltending and playing roughly 50% of the time.

[cross16]

This is very interesting given how Gallant has been tied there by a few people. Maybe this is the "kiss of death" for a coach but for a team that won't be a part of the play in or playoffs it would be uncommon to make this statement unless it was truthful. 

 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

This is likely BT's last hire, so it will be interesting to see which direction he goes. If they have success in this playoff then Ward is most likely back.

 

I wasn't huge on some of Ward's coaching decisions but if they aren't gonna get Gallant or Lavy, then I'm fine with him sticking around.

 

Other teams that could be looking for coaches would be NJ, MIN, DAL, SJ I would think. The DAL and MIN jobs likely depend on playoff performance too.

 

Some may not like this, but the Flames wanted Jim Montgomery when they hired GG, but he wasn't ready to leave Denver. He's a good coach, I'm a believer in second chances and by all accounts he's got his life on track. The Flames have a great support system headed up by Mcgrattan. 

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

This is likely BT's last hire, so it will be interesting to see which direction he goes. If they have success in this playoff then Ward is most likely back.

 

I wasn't huge on some of Ward's coaching decisions but if they aren't gonna get Gallant or Lavy, then I'm fine with him sticking around.

 

Other teams that could be looking for coaches would be NJ, MIN, DAL, SJ I would think. The DAL and MIN jobs likely depend on playoff performance too.

 

Some may not like this, but the Flames wanted Jim Montgomery when they hired GG, but he wasn't ready to leave Denver. He's a good coach, I'm a believer in second chances and by all accounts he's got his life on track. The Flames have a great support system headed up by Mcgrattan. 

 

It's his last chance to get it wrong.

If the coach survives, then BT stays.

If the coach gets fired, then BT is probably following.

[cross16]

On 5/27/2020 at 12:10 PM, Thebrewcrew said:

Some may not like this, but the Flames wanted Jim Montgomery when they hired GG, but he wasn't ready to leave Denver. He's a good coach, I'm a believer in second chances and by all accounts he's got his life on track. The Flames have a great support system headed up by Mcgrattan. 

 

I've thought about that. I was impressed with his work as well and if he's got his life turned around and cleaned up I would agree he deserved a 2nd chance. However, not sure the Flames can be in the market for another head coach who past raises questions. 

 

I don't want to compare the actions of the two men involved as they are drastically different but there would be similarities in terms of the PR and the media and i'm just not sure the Flames can go that route. 

[travel_dude]

So, is Gallant tied to FLA or NJ?  I haven't heard much rumbling.

If he was in fact tied to NJ, you'd think he would have been hired by now.

FLA is going to wait until after the playoffs before they make any moves.

I think.