So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[Flyerfan52]

19 hours ago, Carty said:

My Christmas wish...   For the Flames coaching staff to quit stubborningly banging their heads into a wall and come up with a solid "Plan B"...

Or we could build a stronger wall & then send them all for concussion tests. We don't fire them but the staff all go on LTIR (upper body injury of course) so we can replace them.

 

As you know LTIR can last until the contract ends while insurance covers most of the contract.

[Thebrewcrew]

The next 6 games are gonna be very telling about this team.

 

At SJ

At ANA

vs CHI

vs LA
vs ANA

At MIN

 

All 6 are against teams wither in or battling for playoff spots. IMO anything less than 7 of 12 points in these games isn't good enough. The race is gonna be so tight all season, we really need to get points against the teams we are battling with. 6/12 leaves us right where we are, which is on the outside looking in.

[Flyerfan52]

19 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The next 6 games are gonna be very telling about this team.

 

At SJ

At ANA

vs CHI

vs LA
vs ANA

At MIN

 

All 6 are against teams wither in or battling for playoff spots. IMO anything less than 7 9 of 12 points in these games isn't good enough. The race is gonna be so tight all season, we really need to get points against the teams we are battling with. 6/12 leaves us right where we are, which is on the outside looking in.

4 are in division. 7 is treading water @ best. 9 advances us a very small amount. Maybe.

 

The schedule will keep getting tougher. We've had 20 home games & only 16 on the road. Treading water against both conferances, Time for the Flames to show if they are serious or see being a bubble team is good enough. & I mean management as much as those that put on the jersey.

[robrob74]

A lot of fans on here talk about how horrible the oilers are, and yet they’ve had far more significant injuries this year and we are only 3 points ahead of them. 

 

The Frolik injury maybe a blow, or it could be a wake up call? 

This team should have awaken by now though.

[MAC331]

14 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

A lot of fans on here talk about how horrible the oilers are, and yet they’ve had far more significant injuries this year and we are only 3 points ahead of them. 

 

The Frolik injury maybe a blow, or it could be a wake up call? 

This team should have awaken by now though.

There will always be bias opinions towards your own team. We are really not any better eve from a roster standpoint a better team than the Oilers. Also not unlike our Northern opponents we don't have the best mix of talent currently. We also have a coach that doesn't make the greatest decisions IMO speaking of Frolik going down. This would be the perfect spot to work a good skater like Lazar in but instead he puts the slow moving Jagr with Backlund and Tkachuk.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

There will always be bias opinions towards your own team. We are really not any better eve from a roster standpoint a better team than the Oilers. Also not unlike our Northern opponents we don't have the best mix of talent currently. We also have a coach that doesn't make the greatest decisions IMO speaking of Frolik going down. This would be the perfect spot to work a good skater like Lazar in but instead he puts the slow moving Jagr with Backlund and Tkachuk.

 

I don’t like Gulutzen’s reluctance to play anyone he doesn’t know. I kind of get it, but it’s why you have a farm system. 

 

I feel like it was a part of Hartley’s downfall. He stuck known commodities and didn’t try anything new. This extends to systems for GG.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

A lot of fans on here talk about how horrible the oilers are, and yet they’ve had far more significant injuries this year and we are only 3 points ahead of them. 

 

The Frolik injury maybe a blow, or it could be a wake up call? 

This team should have awaken by now though.

 

We've lost Hamonic twice, Jagr for part of the season and a smattering of players for other reasons.  The Oilers had Sekera as a known loss that they supposedly planned for.  They placed Klefbom on IR when they got another player back.  Talbot was playing like crap before he got injured.  A minor injury to Draisaitl when Nurse beat him up, but he didn;t lose that many games.

 

We are that close to EDM due to 2 games and 2 losses to them.  

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We've lost Hamonic twice, Jagr for part of the season and a smattering of players for other reasons.  The Oilers had Sekera as a known loss that they supposedly planned for.  They placed Klefbom on IR when they got another player back.  Talbot was playing like crap before he got injured.  A minor injury to Draisaitl when Nurse beat him up, but he didn;t lose that many games.

 

We are that close to EDM due to 2 games and 2 losses to them.  

 

We are that close to Edmonton because of that and the fact we only win one or two then lose three.

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

We are that close to Edmonton because of that and the fact we only win one or two then lose three.

 

I'm just saying that EDM was not as affected by injuries as suggested.  Chia had all the time in the world to sign a D-man and a backup goalie to give Talbot a good backup to spell him off.  December has been win one, lose two or three.  The other months not so much.  December we went from a healthy winning record to 500 or less hockey.

The thing is that we are playing our worst hockey and still are above EDM.  They just had a 4 games streak during the same time and still are 3 points back.

 

We can agree that the Flames need to wake up, but the Oilers are not our problem.  The teams ahead of us are.  

[MAC331]

21 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I don’t like Gulutzen’s reluctance to play anyone he doesn’t know. I kind of get it, but it’s why you have a farm system. 

 

I feel like it was a part of Hartley’s downfall. He stuck known commodities and didn’t try anything new. This extends to systems for GG.

Most NHL coaches will error on the side of going with a more experienced player vs one still learning their way. I don't have much of a problem with how he has managed Kulak and Bartkowski. The effort has been there to bring Kulak along with most of the games and using Bartkowski to cover off short term situations. You need to give your spares a skate every now and then.

Personally I just don't think we have the right ingredients for any of our forward lines and see an overhaul required if we want to see this team get better.

[tmac70]

22 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm just saying that EDM was not as affected by injuries as suggested.  Chia had all the time in the world to sign a D-man and a backup goalie to give Talbot a good backup to spell him off.  December has been win one, lose two or three.  The other months not so much.  December we went from a healthy winning record to 500 or less hockey.

The thing is that we are playing our worst hockey and still are above EDM.  They just had a 4 games streak during the same time and still are 3 points back.

 

We can agree that the Flames need to wake up, but the Oilers are not our problem.  The teams ahead of us are.  

The Flames are there own issue.

[MAC331]

16 hours ago, tmac70 said:

The Flames are there own issue.

It will real interesting to see where this team is coming into the TDL and what BT chooses to do with the team.

[phoenix66]

6 hours ago, MAC331 said:

It will real interesting to see where this team is coming into the TDL and what BT chooses to do with the team.

I think a lot of it comes down to how much of the "all in " mentality was for this year or how much leniency is given to next year 

TJ and Hamonic are starting to finally gel...around Xmas, like I figured

3rd line looks good finally 

Mangiapane looked good in his first game, keeps it up he will stick

Our goal tandem looks to be solved for now

Ignore his salary and i actually like Brouwer on the 4th line this year .. and they've taken him off the PP

 

 

The issues are :

Lazar - id be interested to see how he'd look with Mangiapane

Bart - also curious if Prout can replace him.. they seem equally skilled , but Prout adds what we have been missing since Engelland

Stajan - if you cant move him then he's gone next year anyway 

Top line-- when Ferland dips , so do the other 2

 

 

Point is , if you focus on this year .. some Key pieces will be included..  possibly TJ, Bennett, Andersson, Kyllington  etc..  if you let this season ride , supplement and continue to pull from within , we are in a great position to spend money where we need it in the offseason (eg Sign Kane , instead of giving up big pieces now )

 

Right now,   Id be trying to talk Arizona into trading problem for problem .. Duclair for Lazar (question is what other pieces would be included )  ,   See if you can move Brouwer for a rental,   and Im still in the camp of Id trade Johnny for Hall.. but cant think of much else that would make me do it ...  its easily the best win - win for both players and both teams

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I think a lot of it comes down to how much of the "all in " mentality was for this year or how much leniency is given to next year 

TJ and Hamonic are starting to finally gel...around Xmas, like I figured

3rd line looks good finally 

Mangiapane looked good in his first game, keeps it up he will stick

Our goal tandem looks to be solved for now

Ignore his salary and i actually like Brouwer on the 4th line this year .. and they've taken him off the PP

 

 

The issues are :

Lazar - id be interested to see how he'd look with Mangiapane

Bart - also curious if Prout can replace him.. they seem equally skilled , but Prout adds what we have been missing since Engelland

Stajan - if you cant move him then he's gone next year anyway 

Top line-- when Ferland dips , so do the other 2

 

 

Point is , if you focus on this year .. some Key pieces will be included..  possibly TJ, Bennett, Andersson, Kyllington  etc..  if you let this season ride , supplement and continue to pull from within , we are in a great position to spend money where we need it in the offseason (eg Sign Kane , instead of giving up big pieces now )

 

Right now,   Id be trying to talk Arizona into trading problem for problem .. Duclair for Lazar (question is what other pieces would be included )  ,   See if you can move Brouwer for a rental,   and Im still in the camp of Id trade Johnny for Hall.. but cant think of much else that would make me do it ...  its easily the best win - win for both players and both teams

I don't see Lazar as a problem and have said he is likely a better fit for proper ice time next season. DuClair LHS playing RW isn't what we are looking for really.

I never took this "all in" mantra serious for this season and actually think we stand to have a better team next season.

The players I would try and move come the TDL would be Backlund, Frolik and Stone all for draft picks. I don't think anyone will need or want Brouwer or Stajan.

[Flyerfan52]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I think a lot of it comes down to how much of the "all in " mentality was for this year or how much leniency is given to next year 

TJ and Hamonic are starting to finally gel...around Xmas, like I figured

3rd line looks good finally 

Mangiapane looked good in his first game, keeps it up he will stick

Our goal tandem looks to be solved for now

Ignore his salary and i actually like Brouwer on the 4th line this year .. and they've taken him off the PP

 

 

The issues are :

Lazar - id be interested to see how he'd look with Mangiapane

Bart - also curious if Prout can replace him.. they seem equally skilled , but Prout adds what we have been missing since Engelland

Stajan - if you cant move him then he's gone next year anyway 

Top line-- when Ferland dips , so do the other 2

 

 

Point is , if you focus on this year .. some Key pieces will be included..  possibly TJ, Bennett, Andersson, Kyllington  etc..  if you let this season ride , supplement and continue to pull from within , we are in a great position to spend money where we need it in the offseason (eg Sign Kane , instead of giving up big pieces now )

 

Right now,   Id be trying to talk Arizona into trading problem for problem .. Duclair for Lazar (question is what other pieces would be included )  ,   See if you can move Brouwer for a rental,   and Im still in the camp of Id trade Johnny for Hall.. but cant think of much else that would make me do it ...  its easily the best win - win for both players and both teams

Hall is meshing well inNJ so even as a sideways deal it's doutful the Debbies would do it.

 

Duclair for Lazar would be a no go as Dulair seems to @ lest b trying to improve while Lazar seems to be happy just having "NHL player" on his resume. 

In both trades theFlames would have to add prospcts in an over pay as they don't have the picks to even out either deal.

 

I wont rehash trading for E Kane as my opinion on that has been repeated so often even the slowest learner should catch on.

[DirtyDeeds]

26 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't see Lazar as a problem and have said he is likely a better fit for proper ice time next season. DuClair LHS playing RW isn't what we are looking for really.

I never took this "all in" mantra serious for this season and actually think we stand to have a better team next season.

The players I would try and move come the TDL would be Backlund, Frolik and Stone all for draft picks. I don't think anyone will need or want Brouwer or Stajan.

For why?

• Every SC caliber team has the very good checking line. Backs is 4th best in league. We have no one ready to take on that role. At best maybe Janks can in future but he is still 2+ years away from that role.
• Owners mandate is to make the playoffs. You would not get near the playoffs without Frolik and Backs.
•  

Picks

• I don't think BT would be allowed to dismantle 2nd line for picks.
• Picks won't help get you into playoffs for a few years down the road and that is assuming you make the right picks.
• Going for draft picks means you are in build mode again. We aren't. We are in improve/upgrade mode.

[MAC331]

13 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

For why?

• Every SC caliber team has the very good checking line. Backs is 4th best in league. We have no one ready to take on that role. At best maybe Janks can in future but he is still 2+ years away from that role.
• Owners mandate is to make the playoffs. You would not get near the playoffs without Frolik and Backs.
•  

Picks

• I don't think BT would be allowed to dismantle 2nd line for picks.
• Picks won't help get you into playoffs for a few years down the road and that is assuming you make the right picks.
• Going for draft picks means you are in build mode again. We aren't. We are in improve/upgrade mode.

Heading into next season will be time for some of the youth to become the Leaders, most will have 3 plus years experience. We have players that can step in for Backlund, Frolik and Stone whether they do the job equally to what these 3 do currently remains to be scene. As an organization I think it would be smart to recapture some of the draft picks used to fortify other positions lately. I would rather use Backlund in this process being he is a pending UFA than get nothing for him or pay him 6M. Frolik was brought in here overpaid by 1M, he may be worth keeping but if someone offers you value trade him. Stone was expensive insurance back up and from all accounts from scouting can be replaced by Andersson. Now if BT can find a way to correct his own huge mistake signing of Brouwer we could get on with our future.

[Flyerfan52]

6 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Heading into next season will be time for some of the youth to become the Leaders, most will have 3 plus years experience. We have players that can step in for Backlund, Frolik and Stone whether they do the job equally to what these 3 do currently remains to be scene. As an organization I think it would be smart to recapture some of the draft picks used to fortify other positions lately. I would rather use Backlund in this process being he is a pending UFA than get nothing for him or pay him 6M. Frolik was brought in here overpaid by 1M, he may be worth keeping but if someone offers you value trade him. Stone was expensive insurance back up and from all accounts from scouting can be replaced by Andersson. Now if BT can find a way to correct his own huge mistake signing of Brouwer we could get on with our future.

You'll be dissapointed by how late those draft picks are if you're aiming to move players @ the deadline as the buyers will be those likely to contend. That makes their 2018 picks late in any rounds. You might even land a decent prospect taken in the last 2 drafts but again they were likely late round since few teams moved from scum sucker to contender since last year (any that did used that player to make the kump).

 

Backlund will bring the best return as a pure rental.

You say Frolik is overpaid by a million. Are you willing to eat that for 2 years to get a better return?

A less costly Stone on a shorter contract would be picked up for depth.

 

On 2/3 you expect gold for players you don't value.

*******************************************************************************

If you really want to recoup high 1st rounders you'd have to be willing to trade players you don't want to lose (Gaudreau. Monahan, Tkachuk) as other teams are also trying to draft that part to become a contender but might see a short cut by trading for 1 of the 3.

Even then any 1st would be lottery protected if done in season or the deal would be done after the drawing.

The other GMs are trying to keep their jobs.

 

 

[Heartbreaker]

Hindsight and all that... but I can't believe that they didn't lottery protect that pick. Like I said before, I'll be far less upset if they get swept in the first round than if they gifted a high pick to another team for Travis Hamonic. 

 

Love. 

[MAC331]

8 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

You'll be dissapointed by how late those draft picks are if you're aiming to move players @ the deadline as the buyers will be those likely to contend. That makes their 2018 picks late in any rounds. You might even land a decent prospect taken in the last 2 drafts but again they were likely late round since few teams moved from scum sucker to contender since last year (any that did used that player to make the kump).

 

Backlund will bring the best return as a pure rental.

You say Frolik is overpaid by a million. Are you willing to eat that for 2 years to get a better return?

A less costly Stone on a shorter contract would be picked up for depth.

 

On 2/3 you expect gold for players you don't value.

*******************************************************************************

If you really want to recoup high 1st rounders you'd have to be willing to trade players you don't want to lose (Gaudreau. Monahan, Tkachuk) as other teams are also trying to draft that part to become a contender but might see a short cut by trading for 1 of the 3.

Even then any 1st would be lottery protected if done in season or the deal would be done after the drawing.

The other GMs are trying to keep their jobs.

 

 

I didn't really have my eye on a 1st rounder but maybe stock pile some 2nd rounders should be possible. How BT would use those picks may provide some options for further trading, as you say perhaps a prospect closer to the NHL.

[travel_dude]

[CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION]

My question for this season has always been the same. What are the next steps this team has to make to become a perennial Stanley cup contender? We have an all world goalie (which was our biggest weakness last year) yet we are still hovering just above .500. So we make the playoffs again, then what? Is Smith going to pull a Roy this year? I guess my question is why with this goalie and the defencemen we have and the talent up-front, why aren't we more consistently better and moving up the ranks? Is GG gone if we fizzle in the playoffs this year and hover around .500 after Christmas next year? The Oilers have major problems we don't have so what's our excuse for mediocrity? 

[tmac70]

9 minutes ago, CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION said:

My question for this season has always been the same. What are the next steps this team has to make to become a perennial Stanley cup contender? We have an all world goalie (which was our biggest weakness last year) yet we are still hovering just above .500. So we make the playoffs again, then what? Is Smith going to pull a Roy this year? I guess my question is why with this goalie and the defencemen we have and the talent up-front, why aren't we more consistently better and moving up the ranks? Is GG gone if we fizzle in the playoffs this year and hover around .500 after Christmas next year? The Oilers have major problems we don't have so what's our excuse for mediocrity? 

Everyone's wish list was a better goalie, last year.  This year everyone's wish list should be a trade involving Brodie for a RW and new coaching staff.

[redfire11]

17 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Everyone's wish list was a better goalie, last year.  This year everyone's wish list should be a trade involving Brodie for a RW and new coaching staff.

My wishlist  a new coaching staff which would solve the Brodie problem and possibly solve the urgency for a new RW.

[CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION]

1 hour ago, redfire11 said:

My wishlist  a new coaching staff which would solve the Brodie problem and possibly solve the urgency for a new RW.

A new coach can't stop the absolutely brain-dead plays Brodie has been making unless he benches or scratched him.