So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[conundrumed]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I agree. When do the kids stop being kids?

3rd year

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

3rd year

 

Giordano, Backlund and Frolik are old enough now. 

 

Guys like Ferland, Monahan and Gaudreau need to just play. Especially the two latter players, as they’re getting the money. 

 

We tried Brouwer with Bennett, no luck. What other youth are we trying to foster? Janks is a mature young adult.

 

we can only groom leaders if we put players into leadership roles.

 

I think I am with you, get some more goals into the lineup. Get Bennett some confidence. 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I guess so. I guess Monahan and Gaudreau are still too young? What about Frolik and Backlund? They’re not spring chickens anymore. 

I thought we wanted more speed and skill?

 

anyway it is a criticism of the team not you. I get what you’re saying.

 

Where does that line begin and do we stop crossing it?

i want to see our development in action, hoping someone graduates instead of blocking them again, by a Jagr or Glass and so on...

 

Oh, I agree.

I don't mid smart adds.

I don't like going to Value Village for players.

If you bring in a Beagle, then you get rid of a Brouwer.  He's someone that can PK.

Vets can be players as young as Skinner or Hamilton/Hamonic.

Don;t have to be in their 30's.

I don;t mind Frolik because he's still pretty fast.  Backlund's been the go-to guy on this team for years and is still pretty good.

 

Mist of my suggestions are players under 30.  Skinner, Hayes, Reider, Reinhart, Lindholm....

Thy are either fast or skilled or superior hockey sense.

Sure we have guys like Dube, Phillips, Mangiapane, etc. but we have to be smart about fitting them in.

4th line may not be the right spot.  Have them adjust with Backlund or Frolik.  

 

Considering all the players we are supposedly talking to teams about, I think there's a good chance that we lose about 3 from the current roster.

Mangiapane is probably a shoe in to play this fall. 

You can't improve the team in trade and graduation without losing fringe guys like Hathaway, Lazar, Stone, Brouwer, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Oh, I agree.

I don't mid smart adds.

I don't like going to Value Village for players.

If you bring in a Beagle, then you get rid of a Brouwer.  He's someone that can PK.

Vets can be players as young as Skinner or Hamilton/Hamonic.

Don;t have to be in their 30's.

I don;t mind Frolik because he's still pretty fast.  Backlund's been the go-to guy on this team for years and is still pretty good.

 

Mist of my suggestions are players under 30.  Skinner, Hayes, Reider, Reinhart, Lindholm....

Thy are either fast or skilled or superior hockey sense.

Sure we have guys like Dube, Phillips, Mangiapane, etc. but we have to be smart about fitting them in.

4th line may not be the right spot.  Have them adjust with Backlund or Frolik.  

 

Considering all the players we are supposedly talking to teams about, I think there's a good chance that we lose about 3 from the current roster.

Mangiapane is probably a shoe in to play this fall. 

You can't improve the team in trade and graduation without losing fringe guys like Hathaway, Lazar, Stone, Brouwer, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

Question: what would you offer for Skinner?

I can say this about him, he's a snipe.

Also: *crickets*

What's your offer?

[robrob74]

44 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Oh, I agree.

I don't mid smart adds.

I don't like going to Value Village for players.

If you bring in a Beagle, then you get rid of a Brouwer.  He's someone that can PK.

Vets can be players as young as Skinner or Hamilton/Hamonic.

Don;t have to be in their 30's.

I don;t mind Frolik because he's still pretty fast.  Backlund's been the go-to guy on this team for years and is still pretty good.

 

Mist of my suggestions are players under 30.  Skinner, Hayes, Reider, Reinhart, Lindholm....

Thy are either fast or skilled or superior hockey sense.

Sure we have guys like Dube, Phillips, Mangiapane, etc. but we have to be smart about fitting them in.

4th line may not be the right spot.  Have them adjust with Backlund or Frolik.  

 

Considering all the players we are supposedly talking to teams about, I think there's a good chance that we lose about 3 from the current roster.

Mangiapane is probably a shoe in to play this fall. 

You can't improve the team in trade and graduation without losing fringe guys like Hathaway, Lazar, Stone, Brouwer, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That makes a lot of sense. It just seems when we say vets we mean old old. 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

If you bring in a Beagle, then you get rid of a Brouwer.  He's someone that can PK.

 

Does that, just, kind of happen?

[MAC331]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Does that, just, kind of happen?

I don't get the feeling Brouwer is going anywhere. All the talk about Beagle and Ryan is valid however I only see a need for one. Ryan has played for BP and likely has the inside track if he wants to come here. Our need for RW may be getting overstated should the decision be made to move Tkachuk to top line and keep Brouwer. This makes our RW side full and we have a few good prospects in Foo and Gawdin in the A. I would dare say BT and BP are not in the same panic as we here seem to be.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Does that, just, kind of happen?

 

Automagically.

 

Only room for one of these role players.

Beagle is just an example of the type of player that performs the "Brouwer" role better and cheaper.  And he is good at faceoffs.  And he sticks up for his team.  Brouwer is turning into a Bouma 2.0.
 

 

[MAC331]

22 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Automagically.

 

Only room for one of these role players.

Beagle is just an example of the type of player that performs the "Brouwer" role better and cheaper.  And he is good at faceoffs.  And he sticks up for his team.  Brouwer is turning into a Bouma 2.0.
 

 

Unfortunately I don't think Brouwer will automagically disappear this offseason. Like cross has said they likely don't want to bite that big of a bullet financially. Secondly BP mentioned in one of his press conferences about getting Brouwer back to being a better player. If I were a betting man I would saying we will have Brouwer at least until next season's TDL.

[DirtyDeeds]

22 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Yup. BT stated we need vets to help the kids. He also said we want to get faster.

Can't have it both ways. I say we need to add about 15 goals, regardless of how, but I'd surmise they come with more skill.

Yes you can.. easily. Just getting rid of some slower vets like Stajan makes the team faster.

 

Plus not all younger players are fast. Not all older vets are slow...

[conundrumed]

12 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Yes you can.. easily. Just getting rid of some slower vets like Stajan makes the team faster.

 

Plus not all younger players are fast. Not all older vets are slow...

Sorry DD, the point that I was trying to make is go one way or the other, we've always been too worried about that balance.

It's gotten us nowhere.

Go young, what is a vet these days anyways?

Something has to change, it's been perpetual mediocrity and downright frustration.

 

Let me see if I have the story straight.

We draw it up on paper, yeah, we should do alright.

All 82 games are a battle if we're going to make the playoffs.

We have little scoring skill, put up lots of whatever shots.

I'm not saying the sky is falling, but it is raining pretty hard, imho.

I thought that as last year closed. I challenge anyone to tell me it isn't full on frustrating.

This is exactly what it feels like, too often:

Galchenyuk for Domi - we could go after both

Flames name Loob as Head Swedish Scout.

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Sorry DD, the point that I was trying to make is go one way or the other, we've always been too worried about that balance.

It's gotten us nowhere.

Go young, what is a vet these days anyways?

Something has to change, it's been perpetual mediocrity and downright frustration.

 

Let me see if I have the story straight.

We draw it up on paper, yeah, we should do alright.

All 82 games are a battle if we're going to make the playoffs.

We have little scoring skill, put up lots of whatever shots.

I'm not saying the sky is falling, but it is raining pretty hard, imho.

I thought that as last year closed. I challenge anyone to tell me it isn't full on frustrating.

This is exactly what it feels like, too often:

Galchenyuk for Domi - we could go after both

Flames name Loob as Head Swedish Scout.

We are not the only team in the league so others will make deals for players that may or may not improve our team. We have our own Domi in Bennett and need to see how he turns out. I don't think we need Galchenyuk when we have LW and C covered for the most part. Jankowski will be everything and more than what Galchenyuk offers us. Let's focus on enhancing our team in the positions requiring upgrades and yes hopefully with some skill and scoring.

Personally I am warming up to the suggestion of trading Ferland for someone like Elias Lindholm RW. Keep Brodie for another season and see how it goes under BP.

I am hoping BT can trade Stone for a 3rd round pick this draft.

[Heartbreaker]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Personally I am warming up to the suggestion of trading Ferland for someone like Elias Lindholm RW. Keep Brodie for another season and see how it goes under BP.

I am hoping BT can trade Stone for a 3rd round pick this draft.

 

If I'm GM, I'm looking at Brodie and Ferland as my best assets to trade. I would also pay attention to serious offers on Giordano. My untouchables are Tkachuk, Monohan, and Hamilton - although I'd listen on Hamilton if someone offered something ridiculous. 

 

Love. 

[MAC331]

5 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

If I'm GM, I'm looking at Brodie and Ferland as my best assets to trade. I would also pay attention to serious offers on Giordano. My untouchables are Tkachuk, Monohan, and Hamilton - although I'd listen on Hamilton if someone offered something ridiculous. 

 

Love. 

Trading Giordano would be a heartbreaker right now and I don't think this team would respond in a positive way. If Brodie and Ferland would get us Lindholm and McGinn from CAR or some sort of Panarin deal from CBJs I would look to use them. Torts would love to have Ferland running around for him. LOL

[420since1974]

Giordano also has a full NTC until the end of 2019/2020.

The last two years of his contract, it becomes a Modified NTC where he will list 19 teams that he can be traded to.

[MAC331]

8 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

Giordano also has a full NTC until the end of 2019/2020.

The last two years of his contract, it becomes a Modified NTC where he will list 19 teams that he can be traded to.

I would look to get Valimaki well entrenched before I even thought of trading Giordano.

[redfire11]

If History repeats it self (as it always seems to do).

We are playoff bound Peters 1st full season.

Hopefully Peters is better at maintaining team focus year 2.

[cccsberg]

Recent Travel-Dude projection in another thread:

JH-Monahan-Tkachuk

JVR-Backlund-Lindholm

Bennett-Janko-Frolik

Mangiapane-Ryan-Shore

 

This got me to thinking about what else BT has to do, trade-wise and cleaning up a couple roster issues?  

1. Buy-out TBrouwer

 

2. Re-qualify RFAs with the deadline 3PM this afternoon.  

Lindholm-yes

Shore-yes

Hathaway-yes

Jankowski-yes

Hanafin-yes

Kulak-yes

Rittich-yes

Shinkaruk-??

Gillies-yes

Carroll-??

Klimchuk-yes

Smith-no

Poirier-yes

 

3. Re-sign RFAs

 

4. Flesh out pencilled line-up pre-July 1st UFA, with solid "PAIRS"

JH-Monahan-Tkachuk/Lindholm*

Mangiapane-Janko-Lindholm/Tkachuk*

Bennett-Backlund-Frolik

Klimchuk-Shore/Dube**-Foo

extras=Hathaway/Lazar/Ehliz/Gawdin/Dube/Shore**/Phillips/Lomberg

 

Giordano-Brodie

Hanifin-Hamonic

Kulak/Valimaki/Kylington-Anderson/Stone

extras=Hogstrom/Healey

 

Smith

Rittich/Gillies

extras=Parsons, Mcdonald, Schneider

 

5. Evaluate further trade pieces?

Bennett-??

Shore-??

Brouwer-?? (if not bought out)

Lazar-??

Hathaway-??

Kulak-??

Stone-??

Rittich-??

 

6. UFA signings? (depends on further trades, for picks)

[MAC331]

22 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Recent Travel-Dude projection in another thread:

JH-Monahan-Tkachuk

JVR-Backlund-Lindholm

Bennett-Janko-Frolik

Mangiapane-Ryan-Shore

 

This got me to thinking about what else BT has to do, trade-wise and cleaning up a couple roster issues?  

1. Buy-out TBrouwer

 

2. Re-qualify RFAs with the deadline 3PM this afternoon.  

Lindholm-yes

Shore-yes

Hathaway-yes

Jankowski-yes

Hanafin-yes

Kulak-yes

Rittich-yes

Shinkaruk-??

Gillies-yes

Carroll-??

Klimchuk-yes

Smith-no

Poirier-yes

 

3. Re-sign RFAs

 

4. Flesh out pencilled line-up pre-July 1st UFA, with solid "PAIRS"

JH-Monahan-Tkachuk/Lindholm*

Mangiapane-Janko-Lindholm/Tkachuk*

Bennett-Backlund-Frolik

Klimchuk-Shore/Dube**-Foo

extras=Hathaway/Lazar/Ehliz/Gawdin/Dube/Shore**/Phillips/Lomberg

 

Giordano-Brodie

Hanifin-Hamonic

Kulak/Valimaki/Kylington-Anderson/Stone

extras=Hogstrom/Healey

 

Smith

Rittich/Gillies

extras=Parsons, Mcdonald, Schneider

 

5. Evaluate further trade pieces?

Bennett-??

Shore-??

Brouwer-?? (if not bought out)

Lazar-??

Hathaway-??

Kulak-??

Stone-??

Rittich-??

 

6. UFA signings? (depends on further trades, for picks)

I think I will wait until July 15th before anymore roster speculation LOL

[Khrox]

If we are going for a free agent RW, an idea might be Michael Grabner. He's good for 30-40 points from the third line. He can kill penalties. And he can provide some serious scoring (last year he had 36 points, 27 of those were goals). He's a strong goal scorer, who generates off of his own speed (so is far less reliant on other players to score). He can also probably be had for pretty cheap (his highest paying contract was 3 mil AAV, and he had a 30 goal season in it, his contract after was 1.65 AAV). I'd say if you can get him for 2-2.5 on a 2-3 year contract, you probably do it. If he isn't working out, at that hit and with his history (in regards to goals), you could probably trade him fairly easily.

That's assuming we don't get someone like JVR/Neal/Perron/Tavares (I know it's a pipe dream but Tavares would be amazing still).

[cccsberg]

2 hours ago, Khrox said:

If we are going for a free agent RW, an idea might be Michael Grabner. He's good for 30-40 points from the third line. He can kill penalties. And he can provide some serious scoring (last year he had 36 points, 27 of those were goals). He's a strong goal scorer, who generates off of his own speed (so is far less reliant on other players to score). He can also probably be had for pretty cheap (his highest paying contract was 3 mil AAV, and he had a 30 goal season in it, his contract after was 1.65 AAV). I'd say if you can get him for 2-2.5 on a 2-3 year contract, you probably do it. If he isn't working out, at that hit and with his history (in regards to goals), you could probably trade him fairly easily.

That's assuming we don't get someone like JVR/Neal/Perron/Tavares (I know it's a pipe dream but Tavares would be amazing still).

I also like Grabner, especially his speed which I believe will be a BT focus this season.  You read both good and bad about him and since I’m not watching him myself it’s hard to tell what is what.  My only concern would be keeping a close eye on available spots and forgetting our own prospects.  I fully believe Foo, Dube and Klimchuk are probably ready to advance to the NHL this year so bringing in UFAs with similar skills/potential is just blocking spots and not useful.  This Fall a number of draftees will be joining Stockton and you have to keep players moving up.  If we buy-out Brouwer and do not re-sign any of our UFAs from last year that would be a good start, and probably leave enough spots for prospects and a UFA or two.

[cross16]

My concern with Grabner is cost and I think he's going to sign for more than he is worth. He isn't very versatile, and while he's great on the PK he's only ok at 5 on 5, and he really isn't an PP option. Not a good shot, he'll score his goals based on his speed and rush ability so he doesn't really fit on the PP. While I like the idea of that coutner attack speed I also don't see the fit in the lineup. I thikn the Flames need to add a top 6 or 9 guy that can help the PP and that isn't Grabner. Not worth a deal with term IMO as I just don't think the fit is there. 

[manu11]

27 minutes ago, cross16 said:

My concern with Grabner is cost and I think he's going to sign for more than he is worth. He isn't very versatile, and while he's great on the PK he's only ok at 5 on 5, and he really isn't an PP option. Not a good shot, he'll score his goals based on his speed and rush ability so he doesn't really fit on the PP. While I like the idea of that coutner attack speed I also don't see the fit in the lineup. I thikn the Flames need to add a top 6 or 9 guy that can help the PP and that isn't Grabner. Not worth a deal with term IMO as I just don't think the fit is there. 

 

Yeah, I'd be wary of a Grabner signing! He did have 2 good seasons with the Rangers, but was near invisible with the Devils. Looks like he flourished perfectly in the system the Rangers played, but that doesn't guarantee a continued performance like that. Not to mention his very high shooting pecentage over the last 2 seasons.

[cccsberg]

Now that we're past the draft and early UFA season, and the Flames have made several key moves to change-up the team, its time to reassess where we're at and what still needs to be done over the rest of the summer.  

 

One of the biggest things remaining is signing all our remaining RFAs: Lindholm, Hanifin, Kulak, Hathaway, Klimchuk, Shinkaruk and Jankowski for skaters and Rittich plus Gillies for goalies.  Only Lindholm and Hanifin are likely going to be major deals and only Rittich, Kulak, Lindholm, Hathaway and Jankowski are arbitration eligible.  If the Flames go to arbitration on one of these guys a 2nd buy-out window opens which would allow a Brouwer buy-out that may be more amenable now that they've signed multiple new players and need to drop a couple of bodies.  It would also provide some Cap breathing room.

 

Secondly, are there any further deals that need to be made?  Probably the only "holes" the team is looking at now is at back-up goalie position and "functional toughness"/goon.  With three young goalies all needing significant net time and pressure exposure to see what they've got, they are in a bind.  The bind is a situation where Smith gets injured and one of the young goalies is forced to step in and succeed as the de facto #1 for an extended period.  Last year that was a problem when Smith went down, though there certainly were other extenuating circumstances, and now they're a year older so perhaps its not a worry?   Personally I'd stick with the plan (like Vegas last year), because any vet alternative isn't demonstrably better than our guys, if it happens we have three different shots to fill the need, and sooner or later you have to give the guys a shot.  How else are they going to prove themselves?  Have faith.  As for functional toughness the Flames currently have Tkachuk, Bennett, Neal, Giordano, Hamonic, Stone, Hathaway and Brouwer.  Hanifin's an unknown.  That's not bad, even if they do buy-out Brouwer and trade Stone but admittedly there are no goons in there.  Not sure that we want to go there.  Treliving also sure made it sound like Prout has a good chance to make the line-up as a 7th D which certainly fits the description.  Overall BT may just stop here and let the overage of players sort itself out at training camp, with the excess waived and sent to Stockton.   Personally I'd let it ride, while trying to trade Stone (trade for picks) and Brouwer (trade for Kassian(Edmonton) or Martin(Toronto)?) and perhaps Lazar to leave a spot or two for some other upcoming prospects like Mangiapanne, Klimchuk, Gawdin, Foo or Dube.

[MAC331]

4 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Now that we're past the draft and early UFA season, and the Flames have made several key moves to change-up the team, its time to reassess where we're at and what still needs to be done over the rest of the summer.  

 

One of the biggest things remaining is signing all our remaining RFAs: Lindholm, Hanifin, Kulak, Hathaway, Klimchuk, Shinkaruk and Jankowski for skaters and Rittich plus Gillies for goalies.  Only Lindholm and Hanifin are likely going to be major deals and only Rittich, Kulak, Lindholm, Hathaway and Jankowski are arbitration eligible.  If the Flames go to arbitration on one of these guys a 2nd buy-out window opens which would allow a Brouwer buy-out that may be more amenable now that they've signed multiple new players and need to drop a couple of bodies.  It would also provide some Cap breathing room.

 

Secondly, are there any further deals that need to be made?  Probably the only "holes" the team is looking at now is at back-up goalie position and "functional toughness"/goon.  With three young goalies all needing significant net time and pressure exposure to see what they've got, they are in a bind.  The bind is a situation where Smith gets injured and one of the young goalies is forced to step in and succeed as the de facto #1 for an extended period.  Last year that was a problem when Smith went down, though there certainly were other extenuating circumstances, and now they're a year older so perhaps its not a worry?   Personally I'd stick with the plan (like Vegas last year), because any vet alternative isn't demonstrably better than our guys, if it happens we have three different shots to fill the need, and sooner or later you have to give the guys a shot.  How else are they going to prove themselves?  Have faith.  As for functional toughness the Flames currently have Tkachuk, Bennett, Neal, Giordano, Hamonic, Stone, Hathaway and Brouwer.  Hanifin's an unknown.  That's not bad, even if they do buy-out Brouwer and trade Stone but admittedly there are no goons in there.  Not sure that we want to go there.  Treliving also sure made it sound like Prout has a good chance to make the line-up as a 7th D which certainly fits the description.  Overall BT may just stop here and let the overage of players sort itself out at training camp, with the excess waived and sent to Stockton.   Personally I'd let it ride, while trying to trade Stone and Brouwer (trade for Kassian?) and perhaps Lazar to leave a spot or two for some other upcoming prospects.

I don't think we need another "proven" back up Goalie. This team overall should be strong defensively. If Smith goes down maybe they look around and see whats available.

If the players stand up for each other I don't think a tough guys is necessarily required. I just don't want to see Tkachuk or Bennett thinking that is their role at all.