travel_dude Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: jjgallow once said something along the lines of that the Flames are not actually serious about building a winning team. I think that was last summer or so. I was not convinced of that sentiment at the time, but it did give me reason to pause. I think that the Flames want to win of course. The question is whether they are willing to do what it takes to be contenders. If a well established coach is needed to make the team contenders, are they willing to spend the money that this will take? Will they be interested in spending Vigneault, Quenneville, or Babcock money to get into this position? I don't think they chose Gully because he was cheap. The choice available were a lot of old school guys and a chance to talk to a few new coaches with NHL experience. They are willing to eat contracts just to get rid of them. They spend money on research. Invest in player development (Big Ern). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, travel_dude said: .Absolutely (said in my best Hrudey voice). No need to rush the decision on the new coach, but you have to decide now about firing the old guy. Sucks for the timing, and kudos for him and TMac heading to SK to help, but it's a decision that needs to be made soon. There's no pride in guiding a team from a playoff spot to 20th in the league. Epic collapse. Team shares in the cause, but it falls squarely on the coach. When it comes to hiring coaches BT has shown, that he will watch the parade of good quality coaches get gobbled up by other teams, while he ponders who he would like this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 What's the difference if he fires him tomorrow or if he fires him in two weeks, we aren't going to find someone else in that two weeks and GG isn't getting another job in that period of time either. One name I haven't heard in awhile is Sheldon Keefe, he has done a great job with the Marlies and has graduated a lot of players to the Leafs. The other guy with the Leafs I would be curious about is D.J. Smith, he had some success in junior and has been studying under Babcock for the last few seasons. Both would be a bit risky as the haven't been head coaches at the NHL level before, and after Treliving took a bit of a risk with Gulutzan he might look to make his next hire a bit a safer one. I do wonder if any of Tampa, Washington, Columbus or Minnesota fail to make it out of the 1st round will their coaches take the fall. I would think that Cooper would be pretty safe, but you never know, expectations are pretty high for Tampa right now, and he did miss the playoffs last year. Trotz's contract is up at the end of the year and Washington is another team with high expectations. Tortarella is a good coach, and his emotion might be just what this team needs, but can he control himself. Boudreau is a great regular season coach and that's about the only good thing I can say about him, I would rather have Gulutzan back than bring Boudreau here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 15 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said: When it comes to hiring coaches BT has shown, that he will watch the parade of good quality coaches get gobbled up by other teams, while he ponders who he would like this time. Hear this a lot, who exactly did BT miss out on? I'm sure Boudreau will be the popular response although I think it's extremely debatable how good a coach he really is or that the results would be any different. Flames and Wild were pretty identical the last 2 years until the Flames face planted and IMO the Wild have a much better roster. Most of the coaches hired during that same period, or last summer, are either on the hot seat or their clubs had pretty poor years this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 15 hours ago, Cowtownguy said: jjgallow once said something along the lines of that the Flames are not actually serious about building a winning team. I don't think it's the case that they aren't that interested in building a winning team, I think it's just that they don't know how. Flames owners are like the majority of them in sports. Incredibly successful in their own endeavors and don't realize/understand that it's a very different entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, cross16 said: I don't think it's the case that they aren't that interested in building a winning team, I think it's just that they don't know how. Flames owners are like the majority of them in sports. Incredibly successful in their own endeavors and don't realize/understand that it's a very different entity. I'm not so sure you have this ownership angle correct. You do know that some of the original key owners have passed, others are now older which leaves Murray Edwards who is the very type that has left King and Burke to be accountable for the team. The Flames have always been a first class organization in how they treat people and pay them so I don't see where the "cheap out" label comes into play here. I would agree some of the decision making hasn't been the best or worked out for the best but I do believe they want a consistent winner built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, MAC331 said: I'm not so sure you have this ownership angle correct. You do know that some of the original key owners have passed, others are now older which leaves Murray Edwards who is the very type that has left King and Burke to be accountable for the team. The Flames have always been a first class organization in how they treat people and pay them so I don't see where the "cheap out" label comes into play here. I would agree some of the decision making hasn't been the best or worked out for the best but I do believe they want a consistent winner built. Yup I am aware. IMO Hotchkiss stepping aside in favor of Edwards is when issues with this franchise started to appear. I don't share your views on how Edwards operates this team. The history of this club and their coaching hires/coaching tenures is such that it's hard to dispel the "cheap" label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, MAC331 said: I'm not so sure you have this ownership angle correct. You do know that some of the original key owners have passed, others are now older which leaves Murray Edwards who is the very type that has left King and Burke to be accountable for the team. The Flames have always been a first class organization in how they treat people and pay them so I don't see where the "cheap out" label comes into play here. I would agree some of the decision making hasn't been the best or worked out for the best but I do believe they want a consistent winner built. The last big shift was changing coaches. That was as much a gut reaction to getting overrun by the Ducks as it was buying into the High Corsi=Winning Team mythology. I think they still believe that false narrative and love how GG has dramatically “improved” the team (possession) and are in shock over the poor results/bad luck. I would not be at all surprised if they double down on that thinking and wait for “natural regression” to provide better results next year. So sad. We wait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, cross16 said: Yup I am aware. IMO Hotchkiss stepping aside in favor of Edwards is when issues with this franchise started to appear. I don't share your views on how Edwards operates this team. The history of this club and their coaching hires/coaching tenures is such that it's hard to dispel the "cheap" label. How do you get that ? You don't know what goes on with considerations with who they target or if those targets even want to come to Calgary. Was either Sutter under paid ? I think the USA franchises are always going to be the better paying ones. Look what TOR had to pay for Babcock to lure him out. If anything I would say we have had GM put money into the wrong contract like Brouwer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, cccsberg said: The last big shift was changing coaches. That was as much a gut reaction to getting overrun by the Ducks as it was buying into the High Corsi=Winning Team mythology. I think they still believe that false narrative and love how GG has dramatically “improved” the team (possession) and are in shock over the poor results/bad luck. I would not be at all surprised if they double down on that thinking and wait for “natural regression” to provide better results next year. So sad. We wait.... You and I have no idea what the internal situations were with the team. Reading between the lines I would say we have a few clowns on this team that don't take winning as seriously as others and you can't have that. As far as systems play goes there is noting wrong with trying to incorporate a system that has proved successful with other NHL teams. The question IMO for our team is did we have the maturity and discipline to execute it, this year I would say no, next year could be entirely different. I'm on board if BT can bring in someone better than GG but I don't think you are going to see BB and BT change on the systems they want incorporated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, MAC331 said: How do you get that ? You don't know what goes on with considerations with who they target or if those targets even want to come to Calgary. Was either Sutter under paid ? I think the USA franchises are always going to be the better paying ones. Look what TOR had to pay for Babcock to lure him out. If anything I would say we have had GM put money into the wrong contract like Brouwer. I never said/accused them of being cheap. Just that their records makes it hard to dispel it. The Flames owners operate a cap team so tough for me to call them "cheap". But when it comes to coaches they certainly tend to go a different direction than a lot of other franchises. Been that way for over 20 years too. Montreal, Edmonton and TO all pay their coaches some of the higher salaries in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, cross16 said: I never said/accused them of being cheap. Just that their records makes it hard to dispel it. The Flames owners operate a cap team so tough for me to call them "cheap". But when it comes to coaches they certainly tend to go a different direction than a lot of other franchises. Been that way for over 20 years too. Montreal, Edmonton and TO all pay their coaches some of the higher salaries in the NHL. Maybe they are maybe they aren't but we don't know what they were dealing with from the other side either. I would complain more about the poor decisions like having a good coach like D Sutter and moving him to GM where he was clueless. All I want to see is BT get down to the real issues with what went wrong this season and make the necessary changes for an improved team next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 23 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said: When it comes to hiring coaches BT has shown, that he will watch the parade of good quality coaches get gobbled up by other teams, while he ponders who he would like this time. Is being methodical being too methodical sometimes? Gotta pounce sometimes! I missed out on so many chances pondering whether I should or shouldn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 7 hours ago, cross16 said: I don't think it's the case that they aren't that interested in building a winning team, I think it's just that they don't know how. Flames owners are like the majority of them in sports. Incredibly successful in their own endeavors and don't realize/understand that it's a very different entity. To be successful in most businesses whether big or small and if you have employees; the owner must be capable of assembling a successful team. This could also include placing in charge a successful leader to build that winning team. A successful owner would not keep an employee around at 4.5 mil a year that lacked effort and accountability. When businesses start to fail you start replacing at the top. So if Burke is around for next season then I will conclude that the Flames ownership don't really give a ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 I would be extremely disappointed if we see the same PP coach and goalie coach back next season. These two especially because BT went on radio to say he was disappointed in the PP and goaltending. How can BT make that statement to just keep the same thing going? There has to be changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 18 minutes ago, The_People1 said: I would be extremely disappointed if we see the same PP coach and goalie coach back next season. These two especially because BT went on radio to say he was disappointed in the PP and goaltending. How can BT make that statement to just keep the same thing going? There has to be changes. He also said he felt we had good coaching. He went on to ramble on about not making any quick and rash decisions. He followed that up with "changes had to be made" but we had to think it through first not make any quick judgments. Followed that up with changes does not always mean people out and new in. He talked about changes could be mindsets. I gather from all that, he wont fire GG now.. GG was his choice and he thinks he is doing a good job. This will require BT to give a "We are not changing the coach speech so you players better listen up and perform". Mark my words you heard it here first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: He also said he felt we had good coaching. He went on to ramble on about not making any quick and rash decisions. He followed that up with "changes had to be made" but we had to think it through first not make any quick judgments. Followed that up with changes does not always mean people out and new in. He talked about changes could be mindsets. I gather from all that, he wont fire GG now.. GG was his choice and he thinks he is doing a good job. This will require BT to give a "We are not changing the coach speech so you players better listen up and perform". Mark my words you heard it here first. If Treliving keeps Gulutzan as a coach for next season and we do not see a remarkable damn near 180 degree change in Gully's 'strategies', and instead we only see more of the same, Treliving can hold the exit door open for his buddy so they can waltz out towards the sunset together while they wonder if either one will ever get another shot in the league in the same position as their current jobs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 Just now, Carty said: If Treliving keeps Gulutzan as a coach for next season and we do not see a remarkable damn near 180 degree change in Gully's 'strategies', and instead we only see more of the same, Treliving can hold the exit door open for his buddy so they can waltz out towards the sunset together while they wonder if either one will ever get another shot in the league in the same position as their current jobs... If we punt GG next month, what is the likelihood that he obtains another head coaching job next year? I just don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 48 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: If we punt GG next month, what is the likelihood that he obtains another head coaching job next year? I just don't see it. I still think GG's system of possession, waiting for the opponent to make a mistake, soft play, etc!!! would work well with a larger ice surface. I think he could get a job next year working with our Canadian Women's Olympic Hockey Team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said: If we punt GG next month, what is the likelihood that he obtains another head coaching job next year? I just don't see it. Basically zero chance... Only 15 wins at home the entire season when Gully had the advantage of last change... He just has no concept of how to use it... Assistant sure... But somewhere else on a different team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 Not sure where to put this, but thought it was a funny analogy of fancy stats. https://www.smbc-comics.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-show/brad-treliving-things-didnt-go-way-cant-blame-injuries/ The BT interview if you care to listen to it. No substance to it, other than saying we don;t know and have to look into it. Deeds does a good synopsis of the 32 minute radio spot. No Deeds, I don't want to mark your words. I will hate you if you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 I said Long time Ago Td Gg wasnt possibly going anywere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 15 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said: I said Long time Ago Td Gg wasnt possibly going anywere Yes, and we all tried to ignore you when you said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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