travel_dude Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 20 minutes ago, robrob74 said: That, apparently, was everyone’s biggest critique of Willie Desjardins. He rolled his lines and didn’t maximize his talent potential. there isn’t an emotion bank, you either have it or you don’t. Everyone’s emotion meter is different. I think you are right about the comp. Willie was a victim of his own lack of coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 55 minutes ago, robrob74 said: That, apparently, was everyone’s biggest critique of Willie Desjardins. He rolled his lines and didn’t maximize his talent potential. there isn’t an emotion bank, you either have it or you don’t. Everyone’s emotion meter is different. It ended up costing Willie his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I think you are right about the comp. Willie was a victim of his own lack of coaching. 5 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: I ended up costing Willie his job. GG comes from Willie’s mentoring as well... It can very well cost him his job. The problem with the current situation, which benefits him is, our talent is young and still entering their primes. Therefore, does that mean that they’re still going to get him results despite his coaching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 48 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Therefore, does that mean that they’re still going to get him results despite his coaching? I have no doubt that some of the games the Flames have won Gully was still out-coached, and sometimes was particularly noticeable with home ice advantage... I have pointed that out before after games when for example for some inexplicable reason Gully kept putting out the top line against the best defensive line and then a struggling 4th line against a powerhouse top line that was constantly a threat and despite strange player adjustments and really poor line matching the Flames ended up winning the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 20 minutes ago, Carty said: I have no doubt that some of the games the Flames have won Gully was still out-coached, and sometimes was particularly noticeable with home ice advantage... I have pointed that out before after games when for example for some inexplicable reason Gully kept putting out the top line against the best defensive line and then a struggling 4th line against a powerhouse top line that was constantly a threat and despite strange player adjustments and really poor line matching the Flames ended up winning the game... Ya, it doesn’t sit well. But hey, the corsi is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 so is the theme here that when they follow Gulutzans plan they lose but when the players ignore the coach and go off script they win? Or that the flames are winning in spite of the coach? My goodness. Getting out of hand here with negativity. Gulutzan is not without critique but the level it has gone to is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 16 minutes ago, cross16 said: Gulutzan is not without critique but the level it has gone to is just ridiculous. So is some of Gully's "strategy"... Before last nights game it was what, 3 wins in 9 games, and Gully didn't seem very concerned about it,... Maybe he should make a withdrawal from his "emotional bank" more often... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 19 minutes ago, Carty said: So is some of Gully's "strategy"... Before last nights game it was what, 3 wins in 9 games, and Gully didn't seem very concerned about it,... Maybe he should make a withdrawal from his "emotional bank" more often... Considering how they've played since I would say he was more than a little concerned. Last 3 game they've responded very well. Strategy is fair game for criticism. I have my own too but the stuff like winning in spite of the coach and the "script" is what is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 I'm at a loss to describe the coaching strategy. Play top line versus top line to a draw. Play 4th line against Sedin line. Continue to use the same players on the PP. What does that leave? A close game where any mistake is magnified. 5/6 points where we had to come back in two games to manage the tie/win. Those are the games that we were successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, cross16 said: Considering how they've played since I would say he was more than a little concerned. Last 3 game they've responded very well. Strategy is fair game for criticism. I have my own too but the stuff like winning in spite of the coach and the "script" is what is just ridiculous. This team is by far not a well oiled machine and I'm not sure it ever was going to be this season. Way to many learning situations going on out there on the ice, maybe in practise as well. I can understand GG frustration with the breakdown but I also understand fans frustration while trying to read GG's lack of displayable emotion other than constant disappointment. A team needs to go through the growing pains together, it's the only way they become a team that plays for each other. If they don't come together then you have measured failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 24 minutes ago, cross16 said: the stuff like winning in spite of the coach and the "script" is what is just ridiculous. Not if it is true, and for some games it has been... Is this where I'm supposed to say that thinking that the Flames haven't won some games despite poor coaching decisions is ridiculous?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 30 minutes ago, MAC331 said: This team is by far not a well oiled machine and I'm not sure it ever was going to be this season. Way to many learning situations going on out there on the ice, maybe in practise as well. I can understand GG frustration with the breakdown but I also understand fans frustration while trying to read GG's lack of displayable emotion other than constant disappointment. A team needs to go through the growing pains together, it's the only way they become a team that plays for each other. If they don't come together then you have measured failure. The same growing pains that the Vegas team has to go through? our team was pretty much together a full year with the addition of one or two players. Those growing pains and systems really should’ve been worked through by now and last year. We we didn’t need a thousand guys a camp either as they could’ve just ironed out the kinks then. Instead we are ironing them out in December? WTF!? I think that’s what most of us are PO about. Do you forget the systems over the summer and if so, shouldn’t they have been easy to review and implement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 The Flames are a talented enough team to win a majority of games despite poor coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, robrob74 said: The same growing pains that the Vegas team has to go through? our team was pretty much together a full year with the addition of one or two players. Those growing pains and systems really should’ve been worked through by now and last year. We we didn’t need a thousand guys a camp either as they could’ve just ironed out the kinks then. Instead we are ironing them out in December? WTF!? I think that’s what most of us are PO about. Do you forget the systems over the summer and if so, shouldn’t they have been easy to review and implement? Depends on what stage you think this team is at with their own maturity and experience level. I look at this team and get confused with the message BT delivers at times. There is no way he should have said anything about going for it let alone add has beens like Jagr and Versteeg. It seems like the coming core is still at school and going through the last phase of their required learning. There has been enough mistakes made to pass the blame around but they have to face it and go through to come out the other end a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, MAC331 said: Depends on what stage you think this team is at with their own maturity and experience level. I look at this team and get confused with the message BT delivers at times. There is no way he should have said anything about going for it let alone add has beens like Jagr and Versteeg. It seems like the coming core is still at school and going through the last phase of their required learning. There has been enough mistakes made to pass the blame around but they have to face it and go through to come out the other end a better team. What is the average age of the Vegas team? Didn’t they draft young players in the expansion? I guess I can go look that up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, robrob74 said: What is the average age of the Vegas team? Average of 26.5 years old... Tuch is the youngest at 21, and Engelland is the oldest at 35... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 Just now, Carty said: Average 26.5 years old... Tuch is the youngest at 21, and Engelland is the oldest at 33... We cant use youth as an excuse for the “growing pains” as Vegas is putting my fandom to shame. I guess they’ve bought in and know they have to play to win. But shouldn’t every team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 28 minutes ago, robrob74 said: We cant use youth as an excuse for the “growing pains” as Vegas is putting my fandom to shame. I guess they’ve bought in and know they have to play to win. But shouldn’t every team? Flames are the 7th oldest for average age at 27 years and 11 months (10 & 3/4 mths above league average), Vegas the 9th youngest at 26 years and 10 months, about a year apart so not really that much difference.. Here is a bar graph for all the teams... http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/teams/calgary-flames-players-2017-18-nhl-stats.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 1 hour ago, robrob74 said: We cant use youth as an excuse for the “growing pains” as Vegas is putting my fandom to shame. I guess they’ve bought in and know they have to play to win. But shouldn’t every team? Should all teams just go and tell their team to play hockey. LOL good ole pond hockey, take away the coaches and the refs and go with honesty. Speaking of honesty, I haven't even seen Vegas play yet. I think some are going out of their way to find negatives about our team. Some parts are going good some not so good, you keep working on the not so good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Carty said: Not if it is true, and for some games it has been... Is this where I'm supposed to say that thinking that the Flames haven't won some games despite poor coaching decisions is ridiculous?... Just like they won't games in spite of Mike Smith. Just like they've won games inspite of some terrible plays by Gaudrea? Brodie? Bad play from the top line... thinking that you can consistently win games inspite of coaching is ridiculous. Thinking that the flames are talented enough to win game inspite or bad coaching is ridiculous. Heck thinking coaching matters that much is pretty ridiculous. To each his own but the negative rhetoric around here has become intolerable for me. Best of luck all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 hours ago, cross16 said: I was going to go back a bit and quote another post to point out that you were being hypocritical... But I see that you've managed to contradict yourself in the same paragraph... You can't have it both ways... You no doubt have a considerable amount of knowledge of different aspects of the game, but to say that coaching doesn't matter that much is just fundamentally wrong... or as you are fond of saying, "ridiculous"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 I can't stand pissing matches between fans of the same team. It is diabolical and pointless. As I read the constant back and forth, I just don't care. cross is good with Gulutzan and Carty isn't. Agree to disagree already, it's gotten old, very quickly. You're both fantastic gems on this board, but now I'm wondering how stubborn you both must be. Stop going on and on and on about it. It's boring. Truth is, all of us are likely wrong about almost everything. The rest is luck. It's hard to watch 2 highly respected posters fight over one cog of the entire machinery. It makes no sense. I'm not a mod, but I actually considered pming both of you to keep it private. But I'd rather do it here in the court of public opinion of all of the other great Flames fans and posters. You 2 are escalating in a redundant argument. It's hard to watch with the respect I have for both of you. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 hours ago, cross16 said: To each his own but the negative rhetoric around here has become intolerable for me. Best of luck all. One thing I see is Passion Flames passion. There are other team sites that you go in and see no one has posted on anything for days. Things are said that I disagree with and there are posters that I skip over but; I appreciate that everyone has the Flames passion to say something to state their point of view. Negative rhetoric! yes there is an abundance but in the end we all want that cup and in some unforeseen way we are contributing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 11 minutes ago, redfire11 said: One thing I see is Passion Flames passion. There are other team sites that you go in and see no one has posted on anything for days. Things are said that I disagree with and there are posters that I skip over but; I appreciate that everyone has the Flames passion to say something to state their point of view. Negative rhetoric! yes there is an abundance but in the end we all want that cup and in some unforeseen way we are contributing. You want to see negative rhetoric!? I was going to buy tickets for a Flames' game and then looked at my bank account. Ticketmaster said with the amount of cash I have, my only option was PL182 or watching the homeless guy juggle one ball on the street. I gave GG the benefit of the doubt last year. I think that he is a good communicator and seems likeable enough. I don't understand his player selections sometimes. I think his selections adversely impact some games. I often wonder what he does to prepare for games because sometimes the team does not look prepared at all. I am not going to call for his head, but I am not going to be upset when he is replaced either. I am not sure that people are especially negative about GG per se. It is just that the nature of the thread is likely to produce criticism. Even if you inserted Badger Bob or Terry Crisp instead of GG in the thread title, the posts would be more about what needs to be done rather than how amazing the coach is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 hour ago, conundrumed said: I can't stand pissing matches between fans of the same team. It is diabolical and pointless. As I read the constant back and forth, I just don't care. cross is good with Gulutzan and Carty isn't. Agree to disagree already, it's gotten old, very quickly. You're both fantastic gems on this board, but now I'm wondering how stubborn you both must be. Stop going on and on and on about it. It's boring. Truth is, all of us are likely wrong about almost everything. The rest is luck. It's hard to watch 2 highly respected posters fight over one cog of the entire machinery. It makes no sense. I'm not a mod, but I actually considered pming both of you to keep it private. But I'd rather do it here in the court of public opinion of all of the other great Flames fans and posters. You 2 are escalating in a redundant argument. It's hard to watch with the respect I have for both of you. Am I wrong? Why are you taking their debate so personal? They have a right to argue their point on the boards here? So what if they repeat themselves a bit? Truthfully there is some good reasons to be seeing some of the things the Flames are doing and aren't doing or aren't prepared for. In the end GG is not all responsible for some of the poor calls made(sending out the vets despite poor play)... every coach relies on their vets.. every one of them... GG didn't hand pick his assistants.. he was given the ones that management wanted to keep and told that was his group... Still fans have the right to question decisions and question some stubborn lineup/pairings that just don't seem to work. Most fans feel his reluctance to switch it up is holding us back. This may be true somewhat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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