Calgary Flames Drafting and Development: Your Analysis

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, bosn111 said:

On the other hand, Giordano was undrafted and turned out very well.

 

Mind blowing if you think it but also, Giordano's draft year was the peak of NHL's clutch and grab era.  Every team wanted the big, long reach, water ski on wingers, grab and pin in the corners, etc.  Gio was a new NHL guy who wasn't in demand.  Wasn't big enough.  Wasn't gritty enough.  He was ahead of his time.

 

In today's terms, maybe that's the 5'-6" Dman who has IQ out of this world but this world won't accept him yet.  And nobody drafts him.

[rickross]

21 hours ago, bosn111 said:

While there have been a number of unsigned FA's and international players picked up by various teams, including the Flames, there are more that never panned out than ever did. Being given chances isn't necessarily the problem. Some players simply do better in the European leagues and on international ice where there is more space. Some leagues are based more on skill and less on hitting etc. There could be a difference in D and goalie skill in other leagues that shows inflated offensive stats. I don't really know what the full reasons are, but some players simply do better elsewhere.

 

Calgary has signed a few high profile internationals in recent times, and they didn't really work out even when given full opportunity for success. Examples like Ramo (2013 - 2016, yes we traded for his rights but he had never played NHL prior to playing for the Flames), Cervenka was highly touted and never panned out, even with playing top 6.

 

On the other hand, Giordano was undrafted and turned out very well.

 

I guess we will see if any of these guys turn out.

Indeed, a lot of these prospects don’t pan out. I blame a portion of the owness on the over hype applied to certain players. Cervenka was touted as “the best player not in the NHL” by Feaster at the time. He buried Cervenka right then and there, and of course he never lived up to that level of hype. 

 

Flames have been going about their business rather quietly. Save from a few blockbuster trades, our transactions have been low key but fairly impactful. Rittich is a good example of such an acquisition. I’m just glad they’re searching the globe for diversity in talent. 

[JTech780]

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2019/05/prospect-notes-comrie-ollas-mattsson-praplan.html

 

Sounds like Adam Ollas Mattsson will be heading back to Sweden next season. I thought he played well for AHL and all the reports I read said he was a rock for Stockton this season, combine that with a lack of depth in the AHL I thought he would be a guy who would get and NHL deal. He does a lot of things well, but skating isn't one of them, gone are the days of the hulking stay at home defender.

[cross16]

With the Flames depth on D and their pursuit of free agents in that space i'm not surprised to see AOM take off he'll get more $ and play at home over the AHL here. He'd be a longshot to get a call up with the Flames depth and their pursuit of other free agents. 

 

Agree with Jtech that his skating is likely going to prevent him from an NHL career. 

[JTech780]

Calgary will lose the rights to Zach Fischer and D'artangan Joly on June 1st if they aren't signed.

 

I can't see them signing Fischer, but Joly seems like a guy with some upside. I believe if we don't sign Joly he goes back into the draft.

 

Joly is a 6'3" RHS RW.

[rickross]

John Gilmour. He was one of our draft picks until we didn’t tender him an offer a few years back if I’m not mistaken. He’s played with Janko on the Providence championship team. Anyway he’s apparently turning a lot of heads in the NHL.  Sounds like he’s an up an coming D man we might have let go a bit early. Makes you wonder about guys like Brandon Hickey, where they at now??

[cross16]

2 hours ago, rickross said:

John Gilmour. He was one of our draft picks until we didn’t tender him an offer a few years back if I’m not mistaken. He’s played with Janko on the Providence championship team. Anyway he’s apparently turning a lot of heads in the NHL.  Sounds like he’s an up an coming D man we might have let go a bit early. Makes you wonder about guys like Brandon Hickey, where they at now??

 

Hickey is a Sabre and made his AHL debut last year. Was traded there after he told Arizona he wasn't going to sign. 

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/64587/brandon-hickey

 

Gilmour is a hot commodity in the same vein that Czarnik was. Probably a tweener but some chance he could pop and team is going to get a chance to roll the dice on him cheap. 

[phoenix66]

Circle of life in the NHL 

[cross16]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Circle of life in the NHL 

 

It is really funny to think back about how much emotion was in that trade for both fan bases and that it essentially fizzled into nothing for both. Hilarious. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Circle of life in the NHL 

 

It's funny everybody loses.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

It is really funny to think back about how much emotion was in that trade for both fan bases and that it essentially fizzled into nothing for both. Hilarious. 

 

The only plus side for any team was him playing a few seasons in VAN.

As it stands, he was a NHL player over a guy like Shinkaruk and has less baggage than Rychel.

Not a bad PK'er, but I think we have better.

 

[GM_3300]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

It is really funny to think back about how much emotion was in that trade for both fan bases and that it essentially fizzled into nothing for both. Hilarious. 

Another reason to not get to worked up about prospects.

[rickross]

Mason Macdonald. Wasted 2nd round pick. I never understood why we took him when Demko was sitting right there? Rittich and Demko would have been quite the cost efficient option right now...even if Demko is still a bit raw, atleast he made it to the NHL! Will the Flames ever find an elite mainstay in net again??🤔

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, rickross said:

Mason Macdonald. Wasted 2nd round pick. I never understood why we took him when Demko was sitting right there? Rittich and Demko would have been quite the cost efficient option right now...even if Demko is still a bit raw, atleast he made it to the NHL! Will the Flames ever find an elite mainstay in net again??🤔

 

Him and Hunter Smith.

And to think what decent players were available in that draft.

I'm not especially high about Demko, but Sorokin was playing in the KHL at the time and was way better then.

Point was playing in MJ and had 91 points in his draft year.

Yet, we felt it necessary to draft Mac and Smith.

[rickross]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Him and Hunter Smith.

And to think what decent players were available in that draft.

I'm not especially high about Demko, but Sorokin was playing in the KHL at the time and was way better then.

Point was playing in MJ and had 91 points in his draft year.

Yet, we felt it necessary to draft Mac and Smith.

Hunter. Fluffing. Smith. You know it’s be great to know exactly which scout made the final call on these complete misses. Hunter Smith, even Christian Dvorak was still available. I hear u on Demko, I don’t trust him 100% but he’s atleast developed into an NHL player. Wotherspoon.....right before Kucherov. The entire 2013 1st rd we drafted or acquired other than Monny!... Poirier, Klimchuk, Lazar, Shinkaruk...nothing!

[CaCaw]

7 hours ago, rickross said:

Hunter. Fluffing. Smith. You know it’s be great to know exactly which scout made the final call on these complete misses. Hunter Smith, even Christian Dvorak was still available. I hear u on Demko, I don’t trust him 100% but he’s atleast developed into an NHL player. Wotherspoon.....right before Kucherov. The entire 2013 1st rd we drafted or acquired other than Monny!... Poirier, Klimchuk, Lazar, Shinkaruk...nothing!

I hear you on the rest of our picks, but since you are including guys originally drafted by other teams don't forget Lindholm. He was drafted one spot ahead of Mony. That makes 2 of the players from our top line that were drafted in that year. Not bad really.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, rickross said:

Hunter. Fluffing. Smith. You know it’s be great to know exactly which scout made the final call on these complete misses. Hunter Smith, even Christian Dvorak was still available. I hear u on Demko, I don’t trust him 100% but he’s atleast developed into an NHL player. Wotherspoon.....right before Kucherov. The entire 2013 1st rd we drafted or acquired other than Monny!... Poirier, Klimchuk, Lazar, Shinkaruk...nothing!

 

2013 was a different set of management.  The same guy that loved Janko went to VAN and has been picking their NA prospects.

Burkie was as responsible for Smith as anyone else.

Dark days for the Flames.

 

With the misses in 2013 and the number of picks traded since then, it's amazing that we have a at line at all.

Top line + Tkachuik.

Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube, Ras, Valimaki, and Kylington.

Not a bad bunch but most of them selected outside the 1st round.

 

[phoenix66]

11 hours ago, rickross said:

Hunter. Fluffing. Smith. You know it’s be great to know exactly which scout made the final call on these complete misses. Hunter Smith, even Christian Dvorak was still available. I hear u on Demko, I don’t trust him 100% but he’s atleast developed into an NHL player. Wotherspoon.....right before Kucherov. The entire 2013 1st rd we drafted or acquired other than Monny!... Poirier, Klimchuk, Lazar, Shinkaruk...nothing!

Again..20/20 hindsight

Like I posted in the draft thread..had we drafted by the central rankings  that year our draft picks would have been

 

CENTRAL SCOUTING (490):

4. C Sam Bennett, OHL (312)

34. G Thatcher Demko, NCAA (10)

54. D Brycen Martin, WHL

64. RW Reid Gardiner, WHL

175. D Ondrej Case, Czech (149)

184. D Gavin Bayreuther, NCAA (19)

 

Sure , we'd have Demko..but even he's not screaming all star to me .. 

 

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

2013 was a different set of management.  The same guy that loved Janko went to VAN and has been picking their NA prospects.

Burkie was as responsible for Smith as anyone else.

Dark days for the Flames.

 

With the misses in 2013 and the number of picks traded since then, it's amazing that we have a at line at all.

Top line + Tkachuik.

Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube, Ras, Valimaki, and Kylington.

Not a bad bunch but most of them selected outside the 1st round.

 

 

I would say decent drafting considering but I think it’s why having those first rounders are even more important to have more hits. The higher percentage plus our better drafting means we could’ve hit on better players. That’s the hope at least. 

 

 

[sak22]

20 hours ago, rickross said:

Hunter. Fluffing. Smith. You know it’s be great to know exactly which scout made the final call on these complete misses. Hunter Smith, even Christian Dvorak was still available. I hear u on Demko, I don’t trust him 100% but he’s atleast developed into an NHL player. Wotherspoon.....right before Kucherov. The entire 2013 1st rd we drafted or acquired other than Monny!... Poirier, Klimchuk, Lazar, Shinkaruk...nothing!

I remember the 2013 draft as hyped up and possibly having the depth of the 2003 draft.  It turned out quite top heavy and the wrong draft to have 3 1st's, looking at who we could've had with the Poirier and Klimchuk picks and there isn't much that frustrates me besides Theodore.  Sure there are pretty good players, but nobody that I believe puts us in a better spot besides Theodore.

 

 

[cross16]

Well at development camp today, the NCAA guys were the standouts. Mathias Emilio Peterson put on a show and Demetrius Koumontzis wasn't far behind. Peterson was all over the ice on every shift and is super shifty with the puck. Once he get to top speed, no one could contain him out there. I think the flames have a real find here. Scored a rediculous shootout goal too. 

Koumontzis was a buzz saw out there and scored an unreal goal. Went through a dman, got tripped up and still was able to roof it top corner while almost lying on the ground. 

Filip Sveningsson also had a great game and remains one of my favourite undernthe radar guys. Kid has a wicked release and great wheels, hopefully he makes his way over at some point. 

Pelletier started slow but came on as the day continued and by the end was up there with the NCAA guys. The competitiveness and the hockey sense are easy to see with him. 

Decent game all around but anothermajor takeaway was the flames need some d prospects. At times the game lost its flow because the dman just couldn't send a safe puck up the ice to breakout. It's July hockey so don't read too much into thst but given the quality if names on the blue line it was also not surprising. 

However, I think you can also see the benefit to the Flames focus on skill late in drafts. There was only 1 top 60 pick on the ice for the entire camp and you still saw a fast, skilled game with multiple highlights. Pretty impressive stuff. 

[cross16]

The shootout goal

 

 

[travel_dude]

I'm hoping that camp invite McKenna picks up a contract with the Flames.

He's a RHS RW, overager, and played last year with Pelletier.

They are good friends.

 

Might be a good player to add to Stockton.

Or he could go back to Moncton.

Either way, he has some skill.

Not sure how he looked at the camp here.

 

On another note, how did Philp look?

Hard to judge Canadian College hockey compared to other leagues. 

[Cowtownguy]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

Well at development camp today, the NCAA guys were the standouts. Mathias Emilio Peterson put on a show and Demetrius Koumontzis wasn't far behind. Peterson was all over the ice on every shift and is super shifty with the puck. Once he get to top speed, no one could contain him out there. I think the flames have a real find here. Scored a rediculous shootout goal too. 

Koumontzis was a buzz saw out there and scored an unreal goal. Went through a dman, got tripped up and still was able to roof it top corner while almost lying on the ground. 

Filip Sveningsson also had a great game and remains one of my favourite undernthe radar guys. Kid has a wicked release and great wheels, hopefully he makes his way over at some point. 

Pelletier started slow but came on as the day continued and by the end was up there with the NCAA guys. The competitiveness and the hockey sense are easy to see with him. 

Decent game all around but anothermajor takeaway was the flames need some d prospects. At times the game lost its flow because the dman just couldn't send a safe puck up the ice to breakout. It's July hockey so don't read too much into thst but given the quality if names on the blue line it was also not surprising. 

However, I think you can also see the benefit to the Flames focus on skill late in drafts. There was only 1 top 60 pick on the ice for the entire camp and you still saw a fast, skilled game with multiple highlights. Pretty impressive stuff. 

I was cranky that I did not pick up breaky before the game today. Just sayin'.

 

I found it difficult to observe the individual talent that was out there because they played such a defensive game, and always at the wrong end of the ice. Do you think that you could evaluate/rank order the goalies on the basis of this game, and the way it unfolded? You might have a better eye than I do. They all looked impressive to me. Schneider and Parsons were very good. They had better keep up the hard work because the others also looked solid to me.

 

Pospisil stood out somewhat. He was very verbal, dogged it at times, show amazing speed at times, and behaved oddly to me in a shootout situation. He skated quickly, full stop, and slapped the puck in. I think the goalie was Schneider (please correct me if I am wrong)? He just shrugged, which made me laugh (I like Kipper emotional intensity).

 

Overall, I was quite impressed by the speed of the game. 

[Ward54]

4 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

 

Pospisil stood out somewhat. He was very verbal, dogged it at times, show amazing speed at times, and behaved oddly to me in a shootout situation. He skated quickly, full stop, and slapped the puck in. I think the goalie was Schneider (please correct me if I am wrong)? He just shrugged, which made me laugh (I like Kipper emotional intensity).

 

An article on flames nation says the goalie was Parsons