Training Camp battles

[kehatch]

For me, its easy.

Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton, and Wideman are all Top 4 D on almost every team in the league.

Mix and match all you will, that's were they belong.

For the bottom pairing, the Flames most likely start with Russell - Engelland, as Smid will not be cleared for contact until at least mid-October.

I don't foresee Morrison, Nakladal, or Wotherspoon playing well enough this season to force a $3M contract to the AHL.

D prospects will be "blocked" until Trevling can shed Engelland's or Smid's contracts.

Trading one of Russell or Wideman would open a spot, but that is unlikely to happen near the beginning of this season.

I agree with the top. Any combination that doesn't have some combination of Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton, and Wideman is wrong. Especially if the first three aren't on the top four.

[robrob1974]

On the forwards, swap Ferland with Frolik and you have better scoring options.

 

On defense, for the love of all that is holy, get Brodie away from Engelland.

 

I dunno, I know it was ONLY the Canucks, but, being that Ferland had some confidence, but he had some moves and I think that Gaudreau would open up room for him as much as Ferland could do that for him. Monahan would be a guy who eats up the leftovers and is REALLY good at getting to the spots that allows him to score. They're all players with some agility.

[robrob1974]

I agree with Wideman being paired up with Giordano, Wideman needs the stability that he provides. Brodie on the LS with Hamilton makes all kinds of sense. Russell has the mobility required to work on the LS with Engelland.

 

I also think that being the third pairing allows them to be sheltered somewhat. If they have a problem with being overwhelmed, they could always shorten the bench on D and play 5 D throughout a game where it's not looking as good. They have the horses to be able to do it. 

[travel_dude]

I dunno, I know it was ONLY the Canucks, but, being that Ferland had some confidence, but he had some moves and I think that Gaudreau would open up room for him as much as Ferland could do that for him. Monahan would be a guy who eats up the leftovers and is REALLY good at getting to the spots that allows him to score. They're all players with some agility.

 

It's less Ferland with Mony and Johnny than it is Frolik with Backlund.  I just don't want to put two of the best possession players on the same line.  Mony and Johnny could probably be just as good or better with Frolik than they were with Hudler.  I want to see our top 3 be the top 3 of the team.

[Wreckening]

It's less Ferland with Mony and Johnny than it is Frolik with Backlund.  I just don't want to put two of the best possession players on the same line.  Mony and Johnny could probably be just as good or better with Frolik than they were with Hudler.  I want to see our top 3 be the top 3 of the team.

I hear you on that. I think a Monahan, Gaudreau, Frolik line would be killer. All 3 are sound defensively and with Frolik handling the possession time it would allow Gaudreau the time to sneak into those sweet spots he seems to find and Monahan to set himself up in the opposing goalie's face.

 

Having Frolik and Backlund on the same line is a waste of assets. Sure it would be a tough line to play against but I don't see much scoring being generated. It's one thing to have the puck a majority of the time but you have to bury it in the net too.

 

I dunno, I know it was ONLY the Canucks, but, being that Ferland had some confidence, but he had some moves and I think that Gaudreau would open up room for him as much as Ferland could do that for him. Monahan would be a guy who eats up the leftovers and is REALLY good at getting to the spots that allows him to score. They're all players with some agility.

 

I'm not so sure Ferland belongs on the top line at this time. He showed some flashes during the Vancouver series but he just doesn't strike me as a top line kind of player. I see him as more effective on the 2nd or 3rd line, for now. Because we are fresh into training camp I think Hartley is just seeing what he has for options. By the end of training camp we will see more concrete lines and who will be paired with who. Right now it's little experiments until you get the right mix.

[robrob1974]

I hear you on that. I think a Monahan, Gaudreau, Frolik line would be killer. All 3 are sound defensively and with Frolik handling the possession time it would allow Gaudreau the time to sneak into those sweet spots he seems to find and Monahan to set himself up in the opposing goalie's face.

 

Having Frolik and Backlund on the same line is a waste of assets. Sure it would be a tough line to play against but I don't see much scoring being generated. It's one thing to have the puck a majority of the time but you have to bury it in the net too.

 

 

I'm not so sure Ferland belongs on the top line at this time. He showed some flashes during the Vancouver series but he just doesn't strike me as a top line kind of player. I see him as more effective on the 2nd or 3rd line, for now. Because we are fresh into training camp I think Hartley is just seeing what he has for options. By the end of training camp we will see more concrete lines and who will be paired with who. Right now it's little experiments until you get the right mix.

 

But I think, gone are the times that you number the lines. I think that in the long run, the Hudler, Monahan and Gaudreau line is just too weak in muscle and Gaudreau and Hudler could use some protection. They were very abused in the last game they played LA and against the Ducks. Gaudreau was able to play through it, but Hudler got injured and was rendered ineffective. 

 

I think that they're going to go to lines for match-ups, especially at home, but each line will be put on for different scenarios. 

But we will see. They're just testing the combinations to see what works, and in the long run, they can always revert back to the lines that have worked. 

 

I also can see them change the lines up and when the game is on the line and they need the offence, they will go back to the Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler line. 

[Khrox]

With Hartley attempting pairs, he is definitely trying to see who works together best. Guys like Hudler and (as we saw a bit last year) Ferland can be useful and mesh well with many players (Ferland played well with Stajan/Jones, and also with Backlund in the playoffs and apparently looked good with Johnny and Monahan) so they could be guys they switch lines with depending on what they need. If they need to force a goal to tie, they load up one line (JH/Mony/Huds) but if it's tied or in their favour, they can spread the wealth (allowing Hudler to play with someone like Bennett and Frolik or Ferland to play with JH/Monahan). It's like the Blackhawks, they'll keep Kane and Toews on separate lines normally, but they will definitely load them together if they are trying to push for another goal (the Penguins have done that with Crosby/Malkin in the past as well). 


Also, anyone else catch that Kanzig came first in the third group Mountain Climber heat (all D-men it looked like, Wotherspoon was Second). And in Group 1 Jooris came first (Agostino came second and Gaudreau came third).

[MAC331]

With Hartley attempting pairs, he is definitely trying to see who works together best. Guys like Hudler and (as we saw a bit last year) Ferland can be useful and mesh well with many players (Ferland played well with Stajan/Jones, and also with Backlund in the playoffs and apparently looked good with Johnny and Monahan) so they could be guys they switch lines with depending on what they need. If they need to force a goal to tie, they load up one line (JH/Mony/Huds) but if it's tied or in their favour, they can spread the wealth (allowing Hudler to play with someone like Bennett and Frolik or Ferland to play with JH/Monahan). It's like the Blackhawks, they'll keep Kane and Toews on separate lines normally, but they will definitely load them together if they are trying to push for another goal (the Penguins have done that with Crosby/Malkin in the past as well). 

Also, anyone else catch that Kanzig came first in the third group Mountain Climber heat (all D-men it looked like, Wotherspoon was Second). And in Group 1 Jooris came first (Agostino came second and Gaudreau came third).

I actually like thought of a Hudler LW, Bennett C, Frolik RW line.

[robrob1974]

I actually like thought of a Hudler LW, Bennett C, Frolik RW line.

 

I do too. I think that spreading out the scoring has to happen. 

[travel_dude]

I actually like thought of a Hudler LW, Bennett C, Frolik RW line.

 

There are some guys that prefer and excel on their off wing.  Hudler's best season came at RW, so I don't know if that is his linemate(s) or being most comfortable on that side.  That said, I prefer the pair of Bennett/Frolik.

[robrob1974]

There are some guys that prefer and excel on their off wing.  Hudler's best season came at RW, so I don't know if that is his linemate(s) or being most comfortable on that side.  That said, I prefer the pair of Bennett/Frolik.

 

Have they been tried yet (Bennett and Frolik)?

 

Something Hudler could do for Bennett is get him out of his "DIY" mentality. He can teach Bennett how to play hockey the NHL way. I think that will help Bennett's game in the long run, teaching him when to carry the puck when his play opens up room for him to carry it, instead of forcing his way through. Bennett showed improvement in the playoffs, but like a lot say on here about his play, he needs to utilize his teammates. 

 

Right now, I like the idea of Frolik, but at the same time, for me, I don't know, but I am sure that pair will be tested throughout camp at some point. 

[travel_dude]

Have they been tried yet (Bennett and Frolik)?

 

Something Hudler could do for Bennett is get him out of his "DIY" mentality. He can teach Bennett how to play hockey the NHL way. I think that will help Bennett's game in the long run, teaching him when to carry the puck when his play opens up room for him to carry it, instead of forcing his way through. Bennett showed improvement in the playoffs, but like a lot say on here about his play, he needs to utilize his teammates. 

 

Right now, I like the idea of Frolik, but at the same time, for me, I don't know, but I am sure that pair will be tested throughout camp at some point. 

 

I'm not really worried about who starts where.  It took half a season for the Johnny/Mony/Hudler line to stick.  Johnny/Hudler was a mainstay the entire season though.

[robrob1974]

In the Playoffs, Gaudreau proved he matured to the point where he didn't need Monahan or Hudler as they were quite silent in the first round. Gaudreau pulled most of the weight during the playoffs. A part of that could be comfort. But I think if he's with some skilled players he doesn't need them need them. 

 

Something Gaudreau has to do is, if the Flames are going to move on from Hudler at the end of his contract, get used to playing without Hudler anyway. 

[Da4RealDeal]

At this point I can say I am pleased that they are looking to spread the scoring out and support scoring pairs with a physical player that can help possesion time in the offensive zone.

 

I am not sure that Bennett should be the center to make the jump this year. I personnally was more impressed with Arnold's team play than Bennett. I know Bennett is projected to be a higher talent, and he very well should be but I feel Arnold could make the team better in a 3rd or 4th C spot more so than Bennett. I would rather see Bennett become more of a passer and "line mate" instead of a one man show. In the minors he was able to carry a team or at least stood out well but he doesn't seem to have that ability at the NHL level. I know only time will tell. I will just add that I am more than willing for the team to start him in the AHL this year and let him be one of the first call ups. I think Arnold is the better choice for 3-4 C and would help possesion stats. 

[robrob1974]

Bennett will have burned 2 years of his Entry-level contract if he is sent back to Junior though. So i think the Flames want to take advantage of this year instead of essentially only having one year, which would be next year. 

[MAC331]

At this point I can say I am pleased that they are looking to spread the scoring out and support scoring pairs with a physical player that can help possesion time in the offensive zone.

 

I am not sure that Bennett should be the center to make the jump this year. I personnally was more impressed with Arnold's team play than Bennett. I know Bennett is projected to be a higher talent, and he very well should be but I feel Arnold could make the team better in a 3rd or 4th C spot more so than Bennett. I would rather see Bennett become more of a passer and "line mate" instead of a one man show. In the minors he was able to carry a team or at least stood out well but he doesn't seem to have that ability at the NHL level. I know only time will tell. I will just add that I am more than willing for the team to start him in the AHL this year and let him be one of the first call ups. I think Arnold is the better choice for 3-4 C and would help possesion stats. 

Lots of players come out of Junior being the main show. Bennett may have to learn as you say but I can't think of a better way than putting him with Hudler and Frolik.

[conundrumed]

I really wish we'd lift expectations off of Bennett. He's pairing with Hudler, but we have to see how well.

Monahan coming into yr 3 looks dynamite. Gaudreau isn't far behind. Good signs. Ferland isn't ready to handle the puck with these two, whereas Hudler crushes it.

Backlund's been married to Frolik and Bouma. I have zero problem with that.

Jones has actually been a surprise for me working with a few younger guys.

Solid camp, he's an NHLer.

Jooris is Jooris, always solid, and the heir apparent to role model for what it takes.

Of the new hires, I like K(Sh)yllington. He's raw, so 3 yrs professional devt, he'll be 21-22.

I didn't mind Rasmus, but he's on the short side. Like his tenacity, he should develop to an easy 5D or higher.

Needs size.

A lot of hype with Arnold, Poirier, Shore, etc.

Hype.

Mason Marchment I took the greatest interest in. Big body, fast hands, fast feet.

And Morgan Klimchuk. Bouma, but better.

[cross16]

Took in the scrimmage today and while you obviously can't read into a scrimmage too much, but one off the few things I walked away with was just how dominant Gaudreau-Monahan were and how much chemistry they seem to have. They made several VERY nice plays and they seem to be developing a knack for slowing the game down to their own level. I think Hudler did a fine job with them last year but I think it's time to let the two of them step up use Hudler to both balance out the scoring and help Bennett along as well.

[travel_dude]

Player rosters for the split games against the Coilers on Monday

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=779865

 

Spoiler Alert, both games are being streamed.

[kehatch]

Player rosters for the split games against the Coilers on Monday

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=779865

Spoiler Alert, both games are being streamed.

Engelland and Brodie are split. At least for now. Yay.

[420since1974]

+1

[conundrumed]

Took in the scrimmage today and while you obviously can't read into a scrimmage too much, but one off the few things I walked away with was just how dominant Gaudreau-Monahan were and how much chemistry they seem to have. They made several VERY nice plays and they seem to be developing a knack for slowing the game down to their own level. I think Hudler did a fine job with them last year but I think it's time to let the two of them step up use Hudler to both balance out the scoring and help Bennett along as well.

Monahan is our 1C, I don't see that changing. Even in practice afterwards, no doubt about him. Looking phenomenal.

Bennett needs work, is all I'm gonna say...

[cross16]

Monahan is our 1C, I don't see that changing. Even in practice afterwards, no doubt about him. Looking phenomenal.

Bennett needs work, is all I'm gonna say...

 

Of course, after all he is only 19... Treliving has said this a number of times but i think it warrants repeating that the Flames got VERY luck with Sean Monahan. its very rare for a young player to come in and not only play as well as he did but be so sound as he was. its definelty not the norm and i think its important to remember that with Bennett.

 

Again, I'm not suggesting we read into a scrimmage too much but I felt there were two plays that really unerlined what you are going to see from Sam Bennett this year. His team was trying to come out of their own end and Bennett made a poor read on the play. He should have let Hudler have the puck but instead he went a bi tout of his way to get it, crossed paths with Hudler, paniced a bit and wound up turning he puck over just outside his own blueline, which led to an odd man rush the other way and IIRC a goal. not only did he try to do too much he did a poor job reading his winger on the play.

Having said that, about two shifts later, he got the puck behind th eopposition net, took it just past the faceoff dot, deeked out two guys and burried a beautiful wrist shot that popped the water bottle out of the net.

 

I think with any young player you need to take the good with the bad, work on the bad, and hope the good outweights the bad. Bennett has so much individual skill that whlie yes I agree he needs work he's also just 1 play away from changing the game for you.

[robrob1974]

That's also learning to communicate and listening to the winger who is communicating. There's also an adjustment period, learning line mate's tendencies.

You're right Cross, there will be growing pains and we saw some with Monahan, Gaudreau and Brodie as they learnt theNHL game. The thing that has been so great with Hartley is, if a young player is willing to learn he will live with their mistakes, especially if they're still contributing to the team.

I am ok if Bennett doesn't win the Calder. Or if he takes a few years to develop. I want to see the tenacity/desire to improve. Monahan only had 30 points in his rookie season. I kind of expect simile with Bennett. Maybe 40 is success.

I saw that Bennett tends to do things on his own as well, but I saw a bit of improvement on that in the playoffs and I think Hartley and staff will work with him on it and he will adjust.

[The_People1]

Took in the scrimmage today and while you obviously can't read into a scrimmage too much, but one off the few things I walked away with was just how dominant Gaudreau-Monahan were and how much chemistry they seem to have. They made several VERY nice plays and they seem to be developing a knack for slowing the game down to their own level. I think Hudler did a fine job with them last year but I think it's time to let the two of them step up use Hudler to both balance out the scoring and help Bennett along as well.

 

That's great to hear.  Last season, the chemistry was "mostly" between Gaudreau and Hudler while Monahan was kind of "just there" from time to time.