Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[rickross]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The worse thing about those targets is the price he paid to get them.

As if it was do or die.

Brouwer overpaid just to get him here.

Raymond coming off a PTO and getting that much from BT.

The cost to trade for Lazar.

The cost to trade for Bolig.

The cost to trade for Lucic.

 

EDM should have been happy to get Stone for Lucic and pay 2m of Lucic's salary, but that didn't happen.

Nobody else was offering much.

Even Lucic (2m retained)+ Puljujarvi should have been enough for Neal.

 

Yet, we got Lindholm in a win.

How do you hit on that and miss on Brouwer?

It’s all relative at this point, I think Raymond was coming off a 20 goal season with the Leafs before he broke his back. Bolig brought toughness, Stanley cup experience when the team lacked experience heading into the rebuild. Brouwer was a top 9 RW...Flames were desperate at the position..it was a glaring weakness on the team(and still is!). Lazar was just an unnecessary transaction, and we all know how the Lucic deal unfolded. We shall see, there’s obviously other moves he’s waiting to pull the trigger on...maybe something unexpected.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

It’s all relative at this point, I think Raymond was coming off a 20 goal season with the Leafs before he broke his back. Bolig brought toughness, Stanley cup experience when the team lacked experience heading into the rebuild. Brouwer was a top 9 RW...Flames were desperate at the position..it was a glaring weakness on the team(and still is!). Lazar was just an unnecessary transaction, and we all know how the Lucic deal unfolded. We shall see, there’s obviously other moves he’s waiting to pull the trigger on...maybe something unexpected.

 

He broke his back in Vancouver, then he had a rebirth in Toronto. 

 

He had decent goals in Toronto but was always soft and when not scoring never did anything else. When you’re a 40 point guy and a great skater you kind of need to do more or you’re not a factor in over half the games. 

 

It was always the knock him and it’s why I was so against the signing. 

 

I get it, BT didn’t know Johnny would do what he did. I just never would’ve signed him regardless of not knowing that. He’s a player in all my watching the Flames, and the Nucks, listening to the radio here in Van, I’d not have done it. 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

He broke his back in Vancouver, then he had a rebirth in Toronto. 

 

He had decent goals in Toronto but was always soft and when not scoring never did anything else. When you’re a 40 point guy and a great skater you kind of need to do more or you’re not a factor in over half the games. 

 

It was always the knock him and it’s why I was so against the signing. 

 

I get it, BT didn’t know Johnny would do what he did. I just never would’ve signed him regardless of not knowing that. He’s a player in all my watching the Flames, and the Nucks, listening to the radio here in Van, I’d not have done it. 

 

He was one of those Nucks I didn;t like, so signing him was a bitter pill.

Way overpaid.

 

[cross16]

I never really had a problem with Mason Raymond. Flames were rebuilding and the salary cap wasn’t going to be an issue for years, so taking a risk like that and having to buy him out doesn’t really matter. 

 

Bad contacts when your rebuilding are going to happen,but they compound when your trying to contend. The fact the organization hasn’t seemed to adapt is frustrating. I mean every team has at least 1 or 2 bad contracts so it’s not the end of the world, but I’d like to see the organization show they were learning more about their ufa process 

[i_doc]

As a general rule I just wish we'd stay out of UFA signings for the first couple weeks of FA.  Rarely - I can't think of a single exception to this rule but I'm sure there's plenty out there - but rarely does a July 1st (or shortly thereafter) signing end up being worth the money.  Later in the summer though?  There's always decent depth UFAs looking for a team that sign for awesome contracts, or "show me" contracts.

 

Brad Treliving has done a superb job getting his signed players to resign at good value contracts, and he's done a pretty darn good job building through trades (verdict very much out on the Lucic one though), and the team has done a pretty great job drafting and developing, even convincing bottom tier FAs to sign (Czarnk, Foo, etc), but if there's an area that seams to be his weak point it's the "big" FA signings.  In his defense, those signings almost come back to bite every GM in the Hash Rate, yet despite that they just can't help but go after 'em.

 

I for one was stoked when we signed Neal.  He seemed like the perfect fit, although he came with several warning signs (most obviously how no team he ever played for cared much to try and keep him, and some flat out wanted him gone, even WHEN he was scoring 20-30/season), but no one could have predicted Lindholm meshing so perfectly on that top line and Neal all of a sudden becoming the worst player on the team.  So Treliving won huge in the Carolina trade, and face planted in the FA signing.

 

Brouwer is another example, at the time he seemed to be a good fit of scoring touch, leadership and truculence.  Yet for every bad FA signing there's a steal of a trade (I still like the Hamonic trade...I think that guy is huge for our blue line, getting Hamilton was awesome, even Smith was a good pick-up).

 

Overall I'm very confident in BT.  I think he's an awesome GM.  Bad moves are just going to happen, but I think his good moves far outweigh the bad ones.  That being said, unless we can become a legit contender the on-ice product speaks way more loudly than anything else, and we've yet to become an actual threat in the playoffs.   

[rickross]

4 hours ago, i_doc said:

As a general rule I just wish we'd stay out of UFA signings for the first couple weeks of FA.  Rarely - I can't think of a single exception to this rule but I'm sure there's plenty out there - but rarely does a July 1st (or shortly thereafter) signing end up being worth the money.  Later in the summer though?  There's always decent depth UFAs looking for a team that sign for awesome contracts, or "show me" contracts.

 

Brad Treliving has done a superb job getting his signed players to resign at good value contracts, and he's done a pretty darn good job building through trades (verdict very much out on the Lucic one though), and the team has done a pretty great job drafting and developing, even convincing bottom tier FAs to sign (Czarnk, Foo, etc), but if there's an area that seams to be his weak point it's the "big" FA signings.  In his defense, those signings almost come back to bite every GM in the Hash Rate, yet despite that they just can't help but go after 'em.

 

I for one was stoked when we signed Neal.  He seemed like the perfect fit, although he came with several warning signs (most obviously how no team he ever played for cared much to try and keep him, and some flat out wanted him gone, even WHEN he was scoring 20-30/season), but no one could have predicted Lindholm meshing so perfectly on that top line and Neal all of a sudden becoming the worst player on the team.  So Treliving won huge in the Carolina trade, and face planted in the FA signing.

 

Brouwer is another example, at the time he seemed to be a good fit of scoring touch, leadership and truculence.  Yet for every bad FA signing there's a steal of a trade (I still like the Hamonic trade...I think that guy is huge for our blue line, getting Hamilton was awesome, even Smith was a good pick-up).

 

Overall I'm very confident in BT.  I think he's an awesome GM.  Bad moves are just going to happen, but I think his good moves far outweigh the bad ones.  That being said, unless we can become a legit contender the on-ice product speaks way more loudly than anything else, and we've yet to become an actual threat in the playoffs.   

Treliving’s definitely been one of the better GMs. He’s proven he’s not afraid to make bold moves and it’s made the Flames an interesting team to follow. He’s been very astute with his resignings/extension usually all have great value and term. Few GMs excel at UFA signings so he gets a bit of slack. Lucic for Neal is trading one bad contract for a worse one and could put BT in the hot seat if it fails. It’s imperative the Flames qualify for the playoffs and get past the 1st rd this year. Only another 3-4 years before we have to re-up the top line. 

[Cowtownguy]

On 8/4/2019 at 7:28 PM, rickross said:

Treliving’s definitely been one of the better GMs. He’s proven he’s not afraid to make bold moves and it’s made the Flames an interesting team to follow. He’s been very astute with his resignings/extension usually all have great value and term. Few GMs excel at UFA signings so he gets a bit of slack. Lucic for Neal is trading one bad contract for a worse one and could put BT in the hot seat if it fails. It’s imperative the Flames qualify for the playoffs and get past the 1st rd this year. Only another 3-4 years before we have to re-up the top line. 

While I agree with your assessment, I think Brouwer and Neal were just such amazing disappointments. By saying that, I mean many of us, myself included, were stoked to get these guys. I thought that the Flames could actually be one missing piece from being a true contender. Just one guy might be able to capture the magic of the 80s Flames. Then they fall flat. Although I agree Neal-Lucic is just a swap, some people will think that first the guy brought in Brouwer, then Neal, and then Lucic! He brings in a bum disappointment every year!

[The_People1]

17 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

While I agree with your assessment, I think Brouwer and Neal were just such amazing disappointments. By saying that, I mean many of us, myself included, were stoked to get these guys. I thought that the Flames could actually be one missing piece from being a true contender. Just one guy might be able to capture the magic of the 80s Flames. Then they fall flat. Although I agree Neal-Lucic is just a swap, some people will think that first the guy brought in Brouwer, then Neal, and then Lucic! He brings in a bum disappointment every year!

 

I think on both counts, the sentiment was that they would be worth their contracts for 2 years and then decline in play for the final year or two.  No one thought they'd decline immediately the moment they arrived in town.

[travel_dude]

18 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

While I agree with your assessment, I think Brouwer and Neal were just such amazing disappointments. By saying that, I mean many of us, myself included, were stoked to get these guys. I thought that the Flames could actually be one missing piece from being a true contender. Just one guy might be able to capture the magic of the 80s Flames. Then they fall flat. Although I agree Neal-Lucic is just a swap, some people will think that first the guy brought in Brouwer, then Neal, and then Lucic! He brings in a bum disappointment every year!

 

I thought Neal would put up 20 goals and get some time on the top line, while adding some grit.

Answer C, none of the above.

 

 

[travel_dude]

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sounds like it is a 3 year extension. Makes sense, he has turned this team into a contender, also stability is a really under rated portion of building a team. 

[cross16]

Well deserved.

 

Interesting though that last time this dragged on and we were told publicly the Flames no longer negotiated contracts before they expired. Seems they have changed course as Treliving had a year left on his. 

[CheersMan]

That's good news, BT has done some good work in his time here. He has proven to be a keeper in our current push.

[rocketdoctor]

Good to see them get it done early and out of the way.

 

Really pleased to see them put the faith in him.

[cross16]

This is pretty much going to make it official that Treliving will pass Darryl Sutter for 2nd longest tenured GM in Flames history. Here is hoping he catches Fletcher but I certainly wouldn't hold my breath....

 

That's stability that the Flames have not enjoyed enough in their history. 

[LouCifer]

Happy with the news. Sometimes the grass looks greener elsewhere, in this case, not so much for me. Tre has done a great job at the helm, and I’d say he’s won more deals than he’s lost. All this considering this is his first go at being the actual GM of an NHL team. Upwards and onwards!

[Cowtownguy]

On 10/3/2019 at 3:54 PM, cross16 said:

This is pretty much going to make it official that Treliving will pass Darryl Sutter for 2nd longest tenured GM in Flames history. Here is hoping he catches Fletcher but I certainly wouldn't hold my breath....

 

That's stability that the Flames have not enjoyed enough in their history. 

I am rather surprised how poorly Feaster managed the club. It seems to me that he seriously lacked knowledge about how to do the job. I anticipate variation in GM success, but I never thought someone could get to that level without the requisite hockey knowledge.

[Carty]

On 10/3/2019 at 3:54 PM, cross16 said:

That's stability that the Flames have not enjoyed enough in their history. 

 

The importance of that stability will be all the more important as the team progresses towards its potential as a true contender over the next couple of seasons...

[GM_3300]

13 hours ago, Carty said:

 

The importance of that stability will be all the more important as the team progresses towards its potential as a true contender over the next couple of seasons...

Let's call it the "Giordano" window to win a SC.

[travel_dude]

If I'm not mistaken, this deal takes him past the expiry of Johnny's, Gio's and Tkachuk's current deals.

He'll have his work cut out for him there.

Replacing the captain and #1D, re-signing JH and getting Matty signed.

MOnahan's deal expires the same time BT's contract is up.

[LouCifer]

I think all those contracts expire after the new tv deal comes in, so perhaps cap space will be the lesser issue, and the player wanting to stay the greater

[rickross]

On 10/5/2019 at 2:27 PM, travel_dude said:

If I'm not mistaken, this deal takes him past the expiry of Johnny's, Gio's and Tkachuk's current deals.

He'll have his work cut out for him there.

Replacing the captain and #1D, re-signing JH and getting Matty signed.

MOnahan's deal expires the same time BT's contract is up.

Some tough decisions ahead indeed for Treliving...he’s still young and experienced enough to understand how the game is evolving and should keep the team competitive for atleast the next 3 years anyway. 3 more years of Boston Pizza...

[Horsman1]

On 10/5/2019 at 2:27 PM, travel_dude said:

If I'm not mistaken, this deal takes him past the expiry of Johnny's, Gio's and Tkachuk's current deals.

He'll have his work cut out for him there.

Replacing the captain and #1D, re-signing JH and getting Matty signed.

MOnahan's deal expires the same time BT's contract is up.

 

On 10/8/2019 at 11:52 PM, rickross said:

Some tough decisions ahead indeed for Treliving...he’s still young and experienced enough to understand how the game is evolving and should keep the team competitive for atleast the next 3 years anyway. 3 more years of Boston Pizza...

lots happening in the next three years.. new arena.. new contract for players

.. renewal of international tournaments// Treliving can settle in and build for the future now.. Valamaki t o take over for Gio on d.. Tkachuck to take over captaincy.. Monahan tradeable most likely before next contract

\. Gonna be an interesting time for sure

 

[JTech780]

One low key thing that went under the radar was the Flames making Chris Snow an AGM. I really enjoyed his interview on 960 a couple of weeks ago. 

 

One thing that I found interesting was when one of the guys mentioned shot attempts, Snow said that he doesn't consider shot attempts or Corsi to analytics, and that really only cover 1/10th of what is happening during a game, his analogy was if you only looked at shot attempts that would akin to if they only turned the Saddledome lights on for 6 seconds of every minute.

 

It has really challenged and changed the way I view shot attempts.

[CheersMan]

On 10/10/2019 at 7:31 PM, Horsman1 said:

 

lots happening in the next three years.. new arena.. new contract for players

.. renewal of international tournaments// Treliving can settle in and build for the future now.. Valamaki t o take over for Gio on d.. Tkachuck to take over captaincy.. Monahan tradeable most likely before next contract

\. Gonna be an interesting time for sure

 

Do we even know who Valimaki is yet? Sitting out this season (or most of it) will be a serious set back for the young player. Lets not raise the bar to high until we see what he is. Maybe we can learn from the Bennett expectations and give Valimaki some breathing room.  MT for captaincy is a possibility, first you have to re-sign him, which could be a challenge, plus you are assuming Gio is not returning. Why are we trading our 30 goal #1 center SM? Are you thinking someone is going to give us one back? I'm not seeing another one presently in our organization.