Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

for me, haven’t players heard of a crisscross? Why do they have to always come down their same wing EVERY TIME? I think it’s another reason this offence is so dull and boring. They only play in their lanes and no crossing each other to create space.

 

Coould the D possibly make a pass anywhere besides the boards?

I'm talking about the first pass to the wingers.

Isn't there a bunch of iice out there?

 

I've got no problem improving the team without robbing the future.

We have needs.

The fact that Lucic is playing with Backlund should tell you something.

We don't have a better LW?

He has his place, but 15 minutes a night may not be it.

 

Hall, Arviddson add a dimension we don't display.

Speed.

Maybe we are a priduct of an old coach and new one unable to change this late.

Or we have such slow players we have to play that way.

I don't think Sutter wants us to exit slowly.

Or run the exact same play every time.

 

[rickross]

I’m still trying to figure out what it was BT saw in this team during last years Play in playoff series against Jets, Stars that made him so adamant this team was so close to being a contender ? We got bounced embarrassingly yet again in the 1st rd and yet somehow that signalled we were a team on the brink of contending? 
 

[robrob74]

36 minutes ago, rickross said:

I’m still trying to figure out what it was BT saw in this team during last years Play in playoff series against Jets, Stars that made him so adamant this team was so close to being a contender ? We got bounced embarrassingly yet again in the 1st rd and yet somehow that signalled we were a team on the brink of contending? 
 

 

like many, he saw the potential the 1st year Peter’s team had. They were skating around everyone to start the year. They’d start slow then once they turned the ignition they looked like world beaters. But since before the ASB they were figured out and became what they were, this.  
 

many on here still think that can be recaptured, but it’s painfully obvious they can’t. Even at the start of this year some were calling this a good team. 

[cross16]

I don't know... we heard a lot of rumors about Gaudreau and Monahan being available in the off season. That doesn't sound like a GM who thought he had a contender on his hands. 

 

I don't think anyone would argue this is close to the 100 pt team they were under Peters, but I also think it's wroth pointing out they were 17-12-2 in the 2nd half of the season (were top 5 i'm pretty sure) and were a bounce away from going up 2-0 on the Avs in that series. 

 

What we are seeing now is a pretty big fall from that team. 

[phoenix66]

i think we are seeing the effects of the same thing but in different times 

by that I mean .. wed have good seasons , but when the games turned to tight checking playoff hockey , we dropped 

Johnny and Mony too easily shut down meaning its left to the goalies and depth players to carry the load 

Now that Sutter is pushing for playoff style play , same thing happens 

 

in 04, in those close 2-1, 1-0, low scoring games.. id bet if you went back and looked .. Iggy shows up a lot in the goals we did score 

Iggy was our best forward .. Regehr our Best Dman .. Kipper our best goalie 

 

right now and in playoffs past .. Johnny , Mony , Gio are/ were NOT our best players . the only constant is our goalie has carried more than his weight .. from Ramo, to Smith , to Talbot .. our goalies were stars in the playoffs  ( Elliot the exception ) 

 

In 03.. we had the core .. Sutter fixed the depth for 04 ...   now we have the depth , BT needs to fix the core 

I get why hasn't until now .. you expect progression , growth etc..  but we're past wondering what they can be .. we can clearly see what they are 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I don't know... we heard a lot of rumors about Gaudreau and Monahan being available in the off season. That doesn't sound like a GM who thought he had a contender on his hands. 

 

I don't think anyone would argue this is close to the 100 pt team they were under Peters, but I also think it's wroth pointing out they were 17-12-2 in the 2nd half of the season (were top 5 i'm pretty sure) and were a bounce away from going up 2-0 on the Avs in that series. 

 

What we are seeing now is a pretty big fall from that team. 

 

you can’t tell me they played well in that 2nd half. They played like Satoshi Nakamoto! 17-12-2 looks really good, but that’s the problem with stats sometimes. Some say a win is a win, but that team won on the backs of one line at a time. The team didn’t look good in the 2nd half of that year. 
 

I was told I was too negative in most games that year, but it was because I saw all of these habits and thought it wasn’t sustainable or a recipe for long term success.
 

It was worked that season and a lot of guys had career years. Was that the norm or an aberration? Have we seen that team before or after that year doing what they did that year?

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I don't know... we heard a lot of rumors about Gaudreau and Monahan being available in the off season. That doesn't sound like a GM who thought he had a contender on his hands. 

 

I don't think anyone would argue this is close to the 100 pt team they were under Peters, but I also think it's wroth pointing out they were 17-12-2 in the 2nd half of the season (were top 5 i'm pretty sure) and were a bounce away from going up 2-0 on the Avs in that series. 

 

What we are seeing now is a pretty big fall from that team. 

 

Considering that he tried to get Kadri in 2019, Hall in 2020, among other things, I suspect he knew what he had. 

You can't always fix things according to your own timetable.

Need a goalie and a tough D-man becuase you can't handle big players.

Need a RW and a top C.

Need a good 4th line.

 

We were able to get some things done.  Couldn't land a #1C or a top 6 RW, either through trade or UFA.

Not enough return for Gaudreau and Monahan and maybe even Gio, so no deals done.

Signed some guys to fill a void, but really just disposable assets.

 

Maybe the Ward record was the reason for hiring him, but I feel it was BT's worst mistake.  Playoffs were not just a player failure.  Coaching should have been evaluated better.

 

I don't really know what to make of this season.  We were better without Lindholm as a #1C.  We were better with Gio-Brodie than Gio-Ras.  We had a collection of 3rd pairing D-men no better than this year.  We are not a radically different team personnel wise.  Brodie and Hamonic and Reider and Janko should not have made that much difference.  It seems that because we could not get a #1C and couldn't land a top 6 RW, we were forced to try for depth by forcing some things.

 

Hanifin-Tanev is the good story for the year.  It could have been Hanifin-Ras and whatever.  Or the return of the Gatorade line or the dominance of the 3M line.

We chose perceived depth and sticking with the Ward looks from day 1 and just ending up with a real NHL coach.  The team plays like they are all going with different gameplans.  Nobody on the same page.  Tkachuk wants to be a pest, but need to tone it down.  Gaudreau should be defensive, then dump the puck because he has nobody that can take a pass.  Monahan needs to be defensive but not quick enough to then get up the ice.  Gio and Ras both seem like they want to be the offensive guy, but nobody backing them up when either go in deep.  Bennett on the perimeter.  Backlund playing with Lucic.  Mangiapane has the puck every shift, but will get plastered because he has no out.  I just don't know.    

[robrob74]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Considering that he tried to get Kadri in 2019, Hall in 2020, among other things, I suspect he knew what he had. 

You can't always fix things according to your own timetable.

Need a goalie and a tough D-man becuase you can't handle big players.

Need a RW and a top C.

Need a good 4th line.

 

We were able to get some things done.  Couldn't land a #1C or a top 6 RW, either through trade or UFA.

Not enough return for Gaudreau and Monahan and maybe even Gio, so no deals done.

Signed some guys to fill a void, but really just disposable assets.

 

Maybe the Ward record was the reason for hiring him, but I feel it was BT's worst mistake.  Playoffs were not just a player failure.  Coaching should have been evaluated better.

 

I don't really know what to make of this season.  We were better without Lindholm as a #1C.  We were better with Gio-Brodie than Gio-Ras.  We had a collection of 3rd pairing D-men no better than this year.  We are not a radically different team personnel wise.  Brodie and Hamonic and Reider and Janko should not have made that much difference.  It seems that because we could not get a #1C and couldn't land a top 6 RW, we were forced to try for depth by forcing some things.

 

Hanifin-Tanev is the good story for the year.  It could have been Hanifin-Ras and whatever.  Or the return of the Gatorade line or the dominance of the 3M line.

We chose perceived depth and sticking with the Ward looks from day 1 and just ending up with a real NHL coach.  The team plays like they are all going with different gameplans.  Nobody on the same page.  Tkachuk wants to be a pest, but need to tone it down.  Gaudreau should be defensive, then dump the puck because he has nobody that can take a pass.  Monahan needs to be defensive but not quick enough to then get up the ice.  Gio and Ras both seem like they want to be the offensive guy, but nobody backing them up when either go in deep.  Bennett on the perimeter.  Backlund playing with Lucic.  Mangiapane has the puck every shift, but will get plastered because he has no out.  I just don't know.    

✔️

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

you can’t tell me they played well in that 2nd half. They played like Satoshi Nakamoto! 17-12-2 looks really good, but that’s the problem with stats sometimes. Some say a win is a win, but that team won on the backs of one line at a time. The team didn’t look good in the 2nd half of that year. 
 

 

For clarity, he's talking about last January.  

Nobody had career years.

 

[robrob74]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

For clarity, he's talking about last January.  

Nobody had career years.

 

thought he was referring to Peters’ first season...

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

thought he was referring to Peters’ first season...

 

I read it the other way that they finished the season with a winning record and got close to a playoff win.

Checked the wins and it lines up from January to end of season.

 

Last year, there was just so much more to be happy about.

End of the BP story and we turned it around.

Beat Anaheim 6-0.

Beat EDM twice in January.

Great month. 

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Considering that he tried to get Kadri in 2019, Hall in 2020, among other things, I suspect he knew what he had. 

You can't always fix things according to your own timetable.

Need a goalie and a tough D-man becuase you can't handle big players.

Need a RW and a top C.

Need a good 4th line.

 

We were able to get some things done.  Couldn't land a #1C or a top 6 RW, either through trade or UFA.

Not enough return for Gaudreau and Monahan and maybe even Gio, so no deals done.

Signed some guys to fill a void, but really just disposable assets.

 

Maybe the Ward record was the reason for hiring him, but I feel it was BT's worst mistake.  Playoffs were not just a player failure.  Coaching should have been evaluated better.

 

I don't really know what to make of this season.  We were better without Lindholm as a #1C.  We were better with Gio-Brodie than Gio-Ras.  We had a collection of 3rd pairing D-men no better than this year.  We are not a radically different team personnel wise.  Brodie and Hamonic and Reider and Janko should not have made that much difference.  It seems that because we could not get a #1C and couldn't land a top 6 RW, we were forced to try for depth by forcing some things.

 

Hanifin-Tanev is the good story for the year.  It could have been Hanifin-Ras and whatever.  Or the return of the Gatorade line or the dominance of the 3M line.

We chose perceived depth and sticking with the Ward looks from day 1 and just ending up with a real NHL coach.  The team plays like they are all going with different gameplans.  Nobody on the same page.  Tkachuk wants to be a pest, but need to tone it down.  Gaudreau should be defensive, then dump the puck because he has nobody that can take a pass.  Monahan needs to be defensive but not quick enough to then get up the ice.  Gio and Ras both seem like they want to be the offensive guy, but nobody backing them up when either go in deep.  Bennett on the perimeter.  Backlund playing with Lucic.  Mangiapane has the puck every shift, but will get plastered because he has no out.  I just don't know.    

 

If you pinpoint specific moments in time you can explain away his thought process.

 

When looking at the body of work as a whole, the only explanation is he either didn't know what he was doing or was being forced to do certain things.

 

And, it's His Job to look at the body of work as a whole.

 

We have threads on here where Gaudreau was a top ten scorer in the NHL and challenging for being the best player in the game.   At this time we could have named literally any price for him.   We knew, at this time even, that he was totally ineffective in the playoffs.   We Should have known it was his peak, and we had big debates about that in here.  We literally could have named any price.

 

It didn't happen.   Gio is a similar situation.    He also had one or two years like that.   His regression should not come as a shock to any GM worth being a GM, he's doing incredibly well For His Age and I have a ton of respect for him but if you're GM you're not factoring Gio into a discussion about 2021+.   He's just not part of the discussion and his value now is exactly what should have been calculated even when he was Norris material.

 

Maybe you can say it's been hard to move Monahan.  Of the three, sure some truth here but I still feel he had pretty high value early on.

 

Again sure, you can pinpoint moments in time and explain why we did things.  But if a GM (or possibly owner) is only thinking from the perspective of one moment in time then they should not be in the position they are in.

[sak22]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

you can’t tell me they played well in that 2nd half. They played like Satoshi Nakamoto! 17-12-2 looks really good, but that’s the problem with stats sometimes. Some say a win is a win, but that team won on the backs of one line at a time. The team didn’t look good in the 2nd half of that year. 
 

I was told I was too negative in most games that year, but it was because I saw all of these habits and thought it wasn’t sustainable or a recipe for long term success.
 

It was worked that season and a lot of guys had career years. Was that the norm or an aberration? Have we seen that team before or after that year doing what they did that year?

I don't think they were that bad, still over 500 and a goal differential of 16.  They went into the ASB with 5 guys over a P/PG, and all of Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Monahan and Lindholm shooting over 17%.  Hard to sustain that, I think it was more that they caught a lot of breaks in the first half.  The problem for me goes back to when one thing goes wrong for the team they can't recover, they lose a lead late its a guaranteed loss.  What do all 3 of the last playoff series losses have in common?  A late tying goal and and early overtime loss, and in all cases they go on to lose the remaining games, with the last 2 having chances of having 2 game series leads.  Just a fragile bunch, can ride a high for an extended period and hit the lows for just as long.  Just 2019 the lows didn't drag out as long until it mattered, and this year they can't ride the high for more than 3 games.

[cross16]

15 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

you can’t tell me they played well in that 2nd half. They played like Satoshi Nakamoto! 17-12-2 looks really good, but that’s the problem with stats sometimes. Some say a win is a win, but that team won on the backs of one line at a time. The team didn’t look good in the 2nd half of that year. 
 

I was told I was too negative in most games that year, but it was because I saw all of these habits and thought it wasn’t sustainable or a recipe for long term success.
 

It was worked that season and a lot of guys had career years. Was that the norm or an aberration? Have we seen that team before or after that year doing what they did that year?

 

Gaudreau and Monahan didn't play well but yes I would absolutely argue the team did. That's the problem I have with this idea "the downfall started at the ASG in 2019" idea, it's only true for Gaudreau and Monahan it is not true for the rest of the team. 

 

The first half of that season was not the norm and I don't think anyone would argue it was. As i've said before I think a key reason for the success of that team in the first half was having the best line in hockey (for that time period) because they were a rush team.  That line thrived on being able to break the zone early, come with speed, drive wide or hit the trailer for opportunities. Even as good as they were offensively that year you still saw little in the way of zone time or 2nd chance opportunities for that line. 

 

It started at the ASG that year and has been happening ever since but the Flames have moved away from being a rush team to more of a forecheck, grind it out style. It started last year under Peters, Ward put it back in for the playoffs and now they've hired Sutter. Gaudreau-Monahan have just very adjusted very well to it because for me they don't have the right mentality to play that system. Monahan is coming around but he's also held back by a lack of foot speed. 

 

Compounded further by Gio's decline, Tkachuk seemingly taking a step back, what feels like a locker room issue and here we are. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Compounded further by Gio's decline, Tkachuk seemingly taking a step back, what feels like a locker room issue and here we are. 

 

Bieksa had an interesting comment about Tkachuk.

He felt that Tkachuk was doing everything he was supposed to do, but was putting too much pressure on himself to do it all.

Hitting and checking taking more of a toll on his scoring.

 

Add to that Sutter's comments (sure he's supporting him outwardly and not throwing him under the bus), where he said he needed to use Tkachuk more and in the RIGHT circumstances.  That leads me to believe Sutter things Tkachuk is trying to do too much and leaving one part of his game lacking.  Tkachuk has also said he needs to do more, taking it on himself.  That is not the problem with the team.

 

I see what he is saying.  The media is more focusing on the puck flip as being the reason and point to dressing room issues.  Might be a little of both.  

[cross16]

59 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Bieksa had an interesting comment about Tkachuk.

He felt that Tkachuk was doing everything he was supposed to do, but was putting too much pressure on himself to do it all.

Hitting and checking taking more of a toll on his scoring.

 

Add to that Sutter's comments (sure he's supporting him outwardly and not throwing him under the bus), where he said he needed to use Tkachuk more and in the RIGHT circumstances.  That leads me to believe Sutter things Tkachuk is trying to do too much and leaving one part of his game lacking.  Tkachuk has also said he needs to do more, taking it on himself.  That is not the problem with the team.

 

I see what he is saying.  The media is more focusing on the puck flip as being the reason and point to dressing room issues.  Might be a little of both.  

 

That is the way I see it too. Started in the bubble where he seemed to publicly try and take the fall for the team and then it carried into this year with comments like how he was going to be the guy to turn it around and it was on him to get it going etc. Feels like a guy who is trying to lead by example but really just needs to play. 

 

I'm not a big believer that puck flip thing is an issue or was an issue. It it was it sure says a whole lot of negative things about their locker room. 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

That is the way I see it too. Started in the bubble where he seemed to publicly try and take the fall for the team and then it carried into this year with comments like how he was going to be the guy to turn it around and it was on him to get it going etc. Feels like a guy who is trying to lead by example but really just needs to play. 

 

I'm not a big believer that puck flip thing is an issue or was an issue. It it was it sure says a whole lot of negative things about their locker room. 

 

The media is on is like a dog on a bone.

I'm closer to what Bieksa was saying.  It sounds to me like the coach is thinking the same thing.  And that's where I am right now.  

 

I thought the puck flip thing to be just a bunch of negative stuff put forward by media that thrives on intrigue.  People seem to have bought into it.  If there is any truth to it, maybe Gio was annoyed for Tkachuk for slamming (and locking) the door behind him when he left the ice.  Get over it.  You have a guy that leaves it on the ice and you get pissy about an ignorant gesture?  Maybe they talked about it, but who really knows.  If so, I hope it was clearing the air, not telling someone to fight their own battles and stop being a drama queen.     

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Gaudreau and Monahan didn't play well but yes I would absolutely argue the team did. That's the problem I have with this idea "the downfall started at the ASG in 2019" idea, it's only true for Gaudreau and Monahan it is not true for the rest of the team. 

 

The first half of that season was not the norm and I don't think anyone would argue it was. As i've said before I think a key reason for the success of that team in the first half was having the best line in hockey (for that time period) because they were a rush team.  That line thrived on being able to break the zone early, come with speed, drive wide or hit the trailer for opportunities. Even as good as they were offensively that year you still saw little in the way of zone time or 2nd chance opportunities for that line. 

 

It started at the ASG that year and has been happening ever since but the Flames have moved away from being a rush team to more of a forecheck, grind it out style. It started last year under Peters, Ward put it back in for the playoffs and now they've hired Sutter. Gaudreau-Monahan have just very adjusted very well to it because for me they don't have the right mentality to play that system. Monahan is coming around but he's also held back by a lack of foot speed. 

 

Compounded further by Gio's decline, Tkachuk seemingly taking a step back, what feels like a locker room issue and here we are. 

 

mo, the team sucked and I was frustrated to hell with how they played most of that year. Even before the ASB they were extremely frustrating to watch. I kept saying it and everyone on here were pissed at me for calling it out when the team was winning despite their erratic play. Yes, when they decided to skate they looked good. But when they didn’t, they looked horrible and required a lot of comebacks to win a lot of games. Sure, they looked like they were trying and it was exciting for most of the fans to have the comebacks. I, on the other hand saw something a lot different. 
 

then after the ASB the team was basically still a 1 line team. Being 2nd overall, numbers will suggest they played better but I think in reality there were a lot of games they should have lost. Ryan’s line played well, then when they didn’t, the Backs line did. But anyway, I have my belief that they sucked and I dunno if anyone else did, but I didn’t think they’d just turn it on once the Playoffs started, and we all know what happened after that. 

[rickross]

Now you have to wonder if Sutter being the coach here will impede Treliving’s ability to make trades. Players, especially those who like to score.. aren’t going to be chomping at the bit to waive their NMC, NTMC’s to play in this kind of a system.  Not sure it gives the young prospects much hope either.... they aren’t used to Sutters hard as$ old school tactics.  BT might have actually made his job even more challenging

[LouCifer]

10 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

mo, the team sucked and I was frustrated to hell with how they played most of that year. Even before the ASB they were extremely frustrating to watch. I kept saying it and everyone on here were pissed at me for calling it out when the team was winning despite their erratic play. Yes, when they decided to skate they looked good. But when they didn’t, they looked horrible and required a lot of comebacks to win a lot of games. Sure, they looked like they were trying and it was exciting for most of the fans to have the comebacks. I, on the other hand saw something a lot different. 
 

then after the ASB the team was basically still a 1 line team. Being 2nd overall, numbers will suggest they played better but I think in reality there were a lot of games they should have lost. Ryan’s line played well, then when they didn’t, the Backs line did. But anyway, I have my belief that they sucked and I dunno if anyone else did, but I didn’t think they’d just turn it on once the Playoffs started, and we all know what happened after that. 

You know I was with you all the way on this Rob. Saw it and called it the exact same way at the time.  

[robrob74]

18 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

You know I was with you all the way on this Rob. Saw it and called it the exact same way at the time.  

 

I love a comeback as much as everyone else, but not when the team is constantly playing from behind. When they clicked they clicked. 
 

I remember, I was at a Flames at Canucks game that year and Petterson was either a rookie or in his 2nd year, but they just let him skate around them and do what he wanted. I knew then that they were that team, and it continued through to the Colorado series. 

[tmac70]

This is not a coaching issue. Its a poorly constructed team. You cant win puck battles with small players on a dump and chase sceanrio. Plus this team never has each others back as well as some of the worst leadership in the league. My issue has been with the GM for awhile now. He and his staff have no clue of the players needed or the mental attitude of players to win anything. Trevling tried to construct a small skilled team he has only succeed in ine area we are small and play small, I truely. Hope they ship his Hash Rate out soon

[robrob74]

35 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

This is not a coaching issue. Its a poorly constructed team. You cant win puck battles with small players on a dump and chase sceanrio. Plus this team never has each others back as well as some of the worst leadership in the league. My issue has been with the GM for awhile now. He and his staff have no clue of the players needed or the mental attitude of players to win anything. Trevling tried to construct a small skilled team he has only succeed in ine area we are small and play small, I truely. Hope they ship his Hash Rate out soon

 

i have been saying this too. We have skilled guys, but they’re not elite enough for their size. It would be different if they were Patrick Kane good, but we are talking 2nd and more likely 3rd line good. Mangiapane and Dube are good 3rd liners who can play up. Johnny needs a guy who can skate with him. 
 

Backs needs Tkachuk. 
 

We have small guys who play bigger than the bigger guys. It can be done but it takes a toll on the body. Monahan has been soft but tough (as he plays through all of his injuries). But I think it’s ruined his development. He had two significant injuries up to date and is now on a 3rd injury. They hamper his summer training. Just end your season and concentrate on getting better! 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

This is not a coaching issue. Its a poorly constructed team. You cant win puck battles with small players on a dump and chase sceanrio. Plus this team never has each others back as well as some of the worst leadership in the league. My issue has been with the GM for awhile now. He and his staff have no clue of the players needed or the mental attitude of players to win anything. Trevling tried to construct a small skilled team he has only succeed in ine area we are small and play small, I truely. Hope they ship his Hash Rate out soon

 

As everyone here may already know, my biggest criticism of BT is his lack of emphasis on RHS especially at the draft.

 

Imagine playing LW/LD your entire hockey life and then at the highest level, you have to take one for the team and move to your weak side.  And then get blamed when you can't produce the numbers.  And then some refuse to switch sides.  No wonder we have locker room issues.

 

Not only that but our stud RW has to move to Center because we need a RHS faceoff guy so badly.

 

We can't construct good lines because we don't have enough RHS forwards.  Even our D is pretty much one RHS injury away from total chaos.

[zima]

On 3/3/2021 at 7:41 PM, travel_dude said:

Bashing me seems to be this forums go to when they don't like what I say I guess I should be use to it just because my opinion doesn't line up with yours doesn't make me a fool perhaps it make me right and you wrong who knows I must admit don't remember you being one of them but has been along time since I have been on here and this is why I guess . Seems to me it has been a good run in the reg season and we fall apart in the PFs and we are losing our future to dumb trades and losing big bucks to bad FA pickups now I know it is not all on BT but he is the GM and the mistakes fall squarely on his shoulders we need to move on from this squad or at least some of them and try something different . Last few yrs it was the goalies fault then coaching or other way around . In my little mind I think it is time to realize we are getting no where fast and now a new goalie and still same thing even with the goalie standing on his head it just doesn't matter. All these players are  great players but as a team they no longer mesh and BT is just dropping good draft picks to raise the bar and we are sinking. It seems like the sutter area all over again. Now I know that removing the GM might not be any better than changing coaches every 2 yrs but time for new blood in the management office or grow some and make the hard decisions.  Last time on here again don't need or appreciate the disrespect enjoy your click