Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[TrippinVdUb]

Truth is, the flames are drafting better now than they have in the last 2 1/2 decades, its hard to be to critical of Tre when every GM before him has elbowing the bed when its there turn to stand at the podium

[rickross]

Well..they've tied the franchise win streak record. There's no way BT goes unsigned

[robrob74]

15 minutes ago, rickross said:

Well..they've tied the franchise win streak record. There's no way BT goes unsigned

 

If he doesn't, another team will scoop him up for sure!

[DirtyDeeds]

What I don't get is how a lot of posters here complain about Brouwer and his lack of contributions along with his pay/cap hit yet refuse to point fingers at BT for this signing. This is almost as bad as the Mason Raymond signing which he ended up burying and buying out which still costs us.

 

BT has shown us he often overspends on free agents who don't turn out. He also brings in cheap free agents who don't turn out too.

 

I'll be fair as well. Some of his re-signings were pretty good. A couple of his trades were pretty good too. Just every season he has some expensive free agent signings that aren't a good fit.

[robrob74]

23 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

What I don't get is how a lot of posters here complain about Brouwer and his lack of contributions along with his pay/cap hit yet refuse to point fingers at BT for this signing. This is almost as bad as the Mason Raymond signing which he ended up burying and buying out which still costs us.

 

BT has shown us he often overspends on free agents who don't turn out. He also brings in cheap free agents who don't turn out too.

 

I'll be fair as well. Some of his re-signings were pretty good. A couple of his trades were pretty good too. Just every season he has some expensive free agent signings that aren't a good fit.

 

Yes, 

I think that for the other smaller signings, it wreaks of the past regime where we seem to grasp at straws hoping to create something out of nothing. It's a bit annoying, hoping that a proven underachiever will pan out to be more. 

 

A lot can say, Raymond did score to make him worth as much, and we didn't know where goals were going to come from. In my years watching him, Raymond just wasn't a player I would have signed. 

 

Engelland was a bit over too. Those $500,000.00 overpayments can add up in the long range forecasts. As he also overpaid Bouma, by how much? And when you add the overpayments up, you get almost over $1,000,000.00. That's one 3rd or 4th liner. Or maybe it's that much that you're over that you can't sign a guy you'd want, or trade for someone. 

[rickross]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Yes, 

I think that for the other smaller signings, it wreaks of the past regime where we seem to grasp at straws hoping to create something out of nothing. It's a bit annoying, hoping that a proven underachiever will pan out to be more. 

 

A lot can say, Raymond did score to make him worth as much, and we didn't know where goals were going to come from. In my years watching him, Raymond just wasn't a player I would have signed. 

 

Engelland was a bit over too. Those $500,000.00 overpayments can add up in the long range forecasts. As he also overpaid Bouma, by how much? And when you add the overpayments up, you get almost over $1,000,000.00. That's one 3rd or 4th liner. Or maybe it's that much that you're over that you can't sign a guy you'd want, or trade for someone. 

I think it's fair to hold BT accountable for some overpayments but he's also received great value for players like Brodie for example. Early on he made some regrettable signings but I do think he's improved during his tenure. Some of those aren't all on BT...you can't really control the market and Brouwer at the time was fairly sought after and filled a huge need at RW. He has leadership and playoff experience which played into his price. If you look across the board there are some ridiculous contracts handed out...more often than not BT is NOT in that group. 

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, rickross said:

I think it's fair to hold BT accountable for some overpayments but he's also received great value for players like Brodie for example. Early on he made some regrettable signings but I do think he's improved during his tenure. Some of those aren't all on BT...you can't really control the market and Brouwer at the time was fairly sought after and filled a huge need at RW. He has leadership and playoff experience which played into his price. If you look across the board there are some ridiculous contracts handed out...more often than not BT is NOT in that group. 

 

Ya, I get it, but we won't know if that playoff experience pays off until the playoffs. 

 

Maybe be he is good in the room now. But the play on the ice has not. 

[MAC331]

23 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Yes, 

I think that for the other smaller signings, it wreaks of the past regime where we seem to grasp at straws hoping to create something out of nothing. It's a bit annoying, hoping that a proven underachiever will pan out to be more. 

 

A lot can say, Raymond did score to make him worth as much, and we didn't know where goals were going to come from. In my years watching him, Raymond just wasn't a player I would have signed. 

 

Engelland was a bit over too. Those $500,000.00 overpayments can add up in the long range forecasts. As he also overpaid Bouma, by how much? And when you add the overpayments up, you get almost over $1,000,000.00. That's one 3rd or 4th liner. Or maybe it's that much that you're over that you can't sign a guy you'd want, or trade for someone. 

Almost guaranteed you will over pay if you dip into UFA for a player. I don't think anyone denies we overpaid for few players such as Engelland or Raymond however these are gambles a GM can take while rebuilding and there is salary room. I look at Engelland today and say he has earned his keep IMO. Regardless of a few errors or miscalculations the organization will be on a good path after this season to get the salary/position formula in way better shape.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

What I don't get is how a lot of posters here complain about Brouwer and his lack of contributions along with his pay/cap hit yet refuse to point fingers at BT for this signing. This is almost as bad as the Mason Raymond signing which he ended up burying and buying out which still costs us.

 

BT has shown us he often overspends on free agents who don't turn out. He also brings in cheap free agents who don't turn out too.

 

I'll be fair as well. Some of his re-signings were pretty good. A couple of his trades were pretty good too. Just every season he has some expensive free agent signings that aren't a good fit.

 

I think he gets he fair share of blame for the players who don't work out. He gets his fair share of the blame in general imo but no GM is perfect. I think overall the body of work is more positive than negative and he has the club going in the right direction. 

[rickross]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

Ya, I get it, but we won't know if that playoff experience pays off until the playoffs. 

 

Maybe be he is good in the room now. But the play on the ice has not. 

I hear ya....I'm still waiting for Brouwer to prove his worth. He hasn't been much of a factor at all this season. I'll give him a slight pass as he came to a new team and coaches do there's the adjustment period to consider. I'm hoping he steps up in a big way during the playoffs. If not..Vegas can have him

[Cowtownguy]

Am I the only one who thinks it is odd that Treliving doesn't have a new contract yet? The draft happens before long and I would think you really need for him to be signed soon. I have not heard anything about a new contract.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

Am I the only one who thinks it is odd that Treliving doesn't have a new contract yet? The draft happens before long and I would think you really need for him to be signed soon. I have not heard anything about a new contract.

 

The public stance the Flames are putting out there is that it's now their policy to not extend management contracts until they expire. Burke made it pretty clear however that they are very happy with Treliving and don't expect him to go anywhere. 

[MAC331]

3 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

Am I the only one who thinks it is odd that Treliving doesn't have a new contract yet? The draft happens before long and I would think you really need for him to be signed soon. I have not heard anything about a new contract.

Yes LOL

[rickross]

15 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

The public stance the Flames are putting out there is that it's now their policy to not extend management contracts until they expire. Burke made it pretty clear however that they are very happy with Treliving and don't expect him to go anywhere. 

I'm not worried, they'll give BT an extension...making the playoffs 2 out 3 years under his tenure during a rebuild is an impressive feat. Him replacing GG with BH was a big gamble he took but it's paid off nicely. Besides what other GM would they replace him with at this point? Now about that Ken King fella....

[jjgallow]

 

Not good enough BT, not good enough.   

[phoenix66]

7 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Not good enough BT, not good enough.   

im not worried either ..  No GM makes all great moves, but in the big picture of things,  this team is head and shoulders better than what he started with . He;s earned it . 

Even Engelland in my mind earned his salary this year ..  

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

im not worried either ..  No GM makes all great moves, but in the big picture of things,  this team is head and shoulders better than what he started with . He;s earned it . 

Even Engelland in my mind earned his salary this year ..  

 

the team he started with had a far superior playoff performance, as a much younger and much more up and coming team than this one.  

 

Just saying.

[JTech780]

Interesting to see Conroy's name come up a few times in regards to the Sabres GM opening.

[cross16]

 

I really think he'll be back, but boy oh boy am I going to lose it if they don't bring him back.....

[AlbertaBoy12]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I really think he'll be back, but boy oh boy am I going to lose it if they don't bring him back.....

I think id lose my mind if the flames didnt bring him back.

 

Only JJ would find problem with BT.

[cross16]

It has less to do with how I feel about BT and more how I would feel about ownership/Ken King. Not extending Trelivings contract to me would signal that his ownership group is either not committed to winning or just has no idea how to win

[The_People1]

24 minutes ago, cross16 said:

It has less to do with how I feel about BT and more how I would feel about ownership/Ken King. Not extending Trelivings contract to me would signal that his ownership group is either not committed to winning or just has no idea how to win

 

It's this Burke's call?  Since he is hockey Pres whereas KK deals with the business aspect mainly?

[cross16]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's this Burke's call?  Since he is hockey Pres whereas KK deals with the business aspect mainly?

 

On paper. But I don't trust he would make it without KK and owners input. If they want him gone he would be gone. 

 

Its not burkes call that he isnt signed yet. 

[MAC331]

On ‎2017‎-‎03‎-‎19 at 1:40 PM, DirtyDeeds said:

What I don't get is how a lot of posters here complain about Brouwer and his lack of contributions along with his pay/cap hit yet refuse to point fingers at BT for this signing. This is almost as bad as the Mason Raymond signing which he ended up burying and buying out which still costs us.

 

BT has shown us he often overspends on free agents who don't turn out. He also brings in cheap free agents who don't turn out too.

 

I'll be fair as well. Some of his re-signings were pretty good. A couple of his trades were pretty good too. Just every season he has some expensive free agent signings that aren't a good fit.

I agree with the thoughts on Brouwer with his play this season but he could still be very instrumental in helping this team progress. We all thought the same about the Engelland contract but would hate to see where or what would have happened without him over the past 2 seasons. No GM bats 1000 and I think BT has done a good job with taking the organization in the right direction.

[travel_dude]

The Brouwer signing was bad, but nowhere near the other ones that were paid a lot more for a lot longer.

So, it was a less-bad signing.  I was never sure of the reason for bringing in a RW that not good enough to play on a top line, though.  Chaisson's trade I understand.  Versteeg's signing was brilliant.

 

Brouwer's first year is probably like Elliott's and Hamilton's first ones.  They didn't adapt well to the style of the team or the guys they got paired with.  A goalie that goes from a league leader in EV% to the bottom.  A usual standout in March and April humbled.

Brouwer was typically a 30-40 point guy, but achieved very little.  Maybe he is in a serious decline in his skills, but it seemed like he struggled with his linemates or the systems.