cross16 Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 I am really having trouble assigning too much blame to Treliving on last seasons goal tending. Going into camp with 3 goalies was a smart move. Competition isn't a bad thing, especially when your dealing with a young and unproven player. The issue was when they were a quarter of the way in and Hartley still hadn't made a decision between Ramo and Hiller. In fact he went out of his way to not play Ortio. Even after Ramo was waived Ortio didn't get a regular start. It was one of the many signs that GM and coach were not on the same page. Unless you expected Treliving to risk Ortio on waivers early then the three goalie monster is on the coach. It wasn't like Ramo and Hiller were doing so well the coach couldn't justify sending either down. You can blame the GM for not bringing on a better starter last off season. But we were coming off of a season where the goalies got us to the second round. With Hiller having another year under contract, Ortio knocking at the door, and Gilles starting his first season of pro it made sense to sign Ramo to a 1-year deal rather then making a commitment of contract term and/or trade assets for a better goalie. This off season will be different. We have no NHL ready goalies under contract, Ortio was not good last season, Gilles had season ending surgery after 7 games, and goal tending was a big part of our failed season. I agree and to that point its not like he didn't try. Flames were linked to just about every goaltender last season but the prices were high and it looked they had decent back up plans so why pay a high price? Looking pretty smart now too that it appears alot of goalies are going to hit the market and now fewer teams are looking. I don't have a problem with how Treliving has handled the goaltending either. I didn't love the Hiller signing but it did make sense and they don't make the playoffs without Hiller last year. He had a terrible year but his fall from decent goalie last year to out of the league was pretty rare. Hard to blame that on Treliving. Not helping Hartley pick 2 out of the 3, I do blame on Treliving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Cross, I don't get why Ramo was waived over Hiller. That would be Treliving's way of fixing the situation. But I wonder who it was who saw Hiller as the one to keep up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Cross, I don't get why Ramo was waived over Hiller. That would be Treliving's way of fixing the situation. But I wonder who it was who saw Hiller as the one to keep up? I don't know either and we will likely never know. It is well known Hartley was a Ramo guy. the only thing I can think of is they saw a flaw in Ramo's game that they wanted to correct and hoped a couple of AHL games would allow for that correction. I think Hiller was a lost cause at that point but that is me speculating. They wound up getting him to be more aggressive. At the end of the day thought is that really an indictment against Treliving? Ramo missed 5 games and barely over a week of being sent down was this team's starting goalie. Sure, maybe not handled the best but use that to blame Treliving for not fixing the goaltending seems to be a reach to me. It's pretty rare to fix your goaltending mid season. If you are in trouble to start the season you are likely going to stay there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 That is a good point. Ramo was cheating quite a bit at the beginning of the season, which took him off his post. When he got back he didn't cheat as often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 . It is well known Hartley was a Ramo guy. thats just it , i actually believe the opposite.. he only used Ramo when he had no choice. 2 years ago he went with Berra every chance he got. Last season it was Hiller, Hiller started the playofs and was only replaced when Hiller started shutting down . This season he only ran with Ramo cuz Hillier was injured . I truly believe he did not like Ramo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 thats just it , i actually believe the opposite.. he only used Ramo when he had no choice. 2 years ago he went with Berra every chance he got. Last season it was Hiller, Hiller started the playofs and was only replaced when Hiller started shutting down . This season he only ran with Ramo cuz Hillier was injured . I truly believe he did not like Ramo Craig Conroy admitted in an interview on the fan that Hartley likes Ramo and its been wildly reported by people close to the organization that Hartley liked Ramo. I get what you are saying, but that's just not what has been put out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 So while we await BT's return from Russia, how would you rate his team at this year's WC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I agree and to that point its not like he didn't try. Flames were linked to just about every goaltender last season but the prices were high and it looked they had decent back up plans so why pay a high price? Looking pretty smart now too that it appears alot of goalies are going to hit the market and now fewer teams are looking. I don't have a problem with how Treliving has handled the goaltending either. I didn't love the Hiller signing but it did make sense and they don't make the playoffs without Hiller last year. He had a terrible year but his fall from decent goalie last year to out of the league was pretty rare. Hard to blame that on Treliving. Not helping Hartley pick 2 out of the 3, I do blame on Treliving. The guy gets lucky and you say he is looking smart? Just because there might be a expansion draft coming does not mean BT had the foresight to see that this might happen. He still has to find us a #1 goaltender anyway. He tried and failed to get rid of Hiller and he tried and failed to pick up a goaltender last season. That is not smart you can't spin it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Cross, I don't get why Ramo was waived over Hiller. That would be Treliving's way of fixing the situation. But I wonder who it was who saw Hiller as the one to keep up? Think about it this way. If Ramo was signed by Feaster and Hiller by BT then if both are playing poorly who do you send down? The guy the last GM signed or the Guy you signed? Does it really matter who gets sent down if both are going to play bad? You can send both down they are both on 1 way contracts. Unless you want/hope the one you send down to be claimed what does it matter? Ortio was the one he did not want to send down to begin with. They waited until he had some crap games under his belt before deciding he likely would not be claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 The guy gets lucky and you say he is looking smart? Just because there might be a expansion draft coming does not mean BT had the foresight to see that this might happen. He still has to find us a #1 goaltender anyway. He tried and failed to get rid of Hiller and he tried and failed to pick up a goaltender last season. That is not smart you can't spin it that way. Not overpaying for an asset based on need is smart. Using your assets to fill a harder to find need, Hamilton trade, is smart too. Of course he still need to find a goalie but I'll take what he did last offseason and the result over having Jones or Talbot. Prices were high on goalies last summer and I think he was smart for not bitting in it and instead making the Hamilton deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 The guy gets lucky and you say he is looking smart? Just because there might be a expansion draft coming does not mean BT had the foresight to see that this might happen. He still has to find us a #1 goaltender anyway. He tried and failed to get rid of Hiller and he tried and failed to pick up a goaltender last season. That is not smart you can't spin it that way. But you can spin it that he didn't want to pay the prices for a goalie and stuck to his guns on the deal. It's not something we'd know for sure, but my guess is he wasn't willing to pay above a certain price and didn't. So that could be construed as smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 But you can spin it that he didn't want to pay the prices for a goalie and stuck to his guns on the deal. It's not something we'd know for sure, but my guess is he wasn't willing to pay above a certain price and didn't. So that could be construed as smart. I think he knew he was stuck with Hiller and didn't want to go immediately with Ortio so he resigned Ramo. I also believe he was hoping Ramo would run with the opportunity and flow into this year as the starter. Ortio became a matter of circumstance held on the roster long enough for everyone to fill their goaltending needs so he could be passed down through waivers without getting taken. The early struggles for each of them made it a mess and BT admitted that was on him. I think we all expect a far better result this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I think he knew he was stuck with Hiller and didn't want to go immediately with Ortio so he resigned Ramo. I also believe he was hoping Ramo would run with the opportunity and flow into this year as the starter. Ortio became a matter of circumstance held on the roster long enough for everyone to fill their goaltending needs so he could be passed down through waivers without getting taken. The early struggles for each of them made it a mess and BT admitted that was on him. I think we all expect a far better result this offseason. I agree mostly and you have to figure that BT was expecting Ortio to step up to the backup role at least when he signed him to the 1 way, 2nd year portion of his contract. But you can spin it that he didn't want to pay the prices for a goalie and stuck to his guns on the deal. It's not something we'd know for sure, but my guess is he wasn't willing to pay above a certain price and didn't. So that could be construed as smart. What goalie was he waffling on? My understanding is he wanted to trade Hiller away before last season, not bring another one in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I agree mostly and you have to figure that BT was expecting Ortio to step up to the backup role at least when he signed him to the 1 way, 2nd year portion of his contract. What goalie was he waffling on? My understanding is he wanted to trade Hiller away before last season, not bring another one in. There were reports that he was in on both Jones and Talbot. Talbot was a relatively cheap deal, though 3 picks seems like a lot, especially after trading for Hammy. It would have decimated our draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 There were reports that he was in on both Jones and Talbot. Talbot was a relatively cheap deal, though 3 picks seems like a lot, especially after trading for Hammy. It would have decimated our draft. yup he was in on both but it would have needed the 1st rounder we traded for Hamilton.. obviously when that came up he jumped on it he was apparently in on Ward too.. same style of deal we had in place for Ribiero .. the player and their 1st rounder to unload the contract.. i think Carolina themselves nixed it.. Ribiero not waiving his NTC killed the Phoenix one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 yup he was in on both but it would have needed the 1st rounder we traded for Hamilton.. obviously when that came up he jumped on it he was apparently in on Ward too.. same style of deal we had in place for Ribiero .. the player and their 1st rounder to unload the contract.. i think Carolina themselves nixed it.. Ribiero not waiving his NTC killed the Phoenix one There was no 1st rounder involved in the Talbot trade. It was a 2nd, 3rd & a swap of 7th rounders. Calgary still ended up with 3 picks in the 2nd so 1 or both (or 1 & a decent prospect to make up for the pick being later than the Oilers might have turned the trick. A flip of 7ths? Who cares. I am really having trouble assigning too much blame to Treliving on last seasons goal tending. Going into camp with 3 goalies was a smart move. Competition isn't a bad thing, especially when your dealing with a young and unproven player. The issue was when they were a quarter of the way in and Hartley still hadn't made a decision between Ramo and Hiller. In fact he went out of his way to not play Ortio. Even after Ramo was waived Ortio didn't get a regular start. It was one of the many signs that GM and coach were not on the same page. Unless you expected Treliving to risk Ortio on waivers early then the three goalie monster is on the coach. It wasn't like Ramo and Hiller were doing so well the coach couldn't justify sending either down. You can blame the GM for not bringing on a better starter last off season. But we were coming off of a season where the goalies got us to the second round. With Hiller having another year under contract, Ortio knocking at the door, and Gilles starting his first season of pro it made sense to sign Ramo to a 1-year deal rather then making a commitment of contract term and/or trade assets for a better goalie. This off season will be different. We have no NHL ready goalies under contract, Ortio was not good last season, Gilles had season ending surgery after 7 games, and goal tending was a big part of our failed season. No. Going into camp with 3 good goalies might work but having 3 that aren't & hoping 1 might be isn't smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 There was no 1st rounder involved in the Talbot trade. It was a 2nd, 3rd & a swap of 7th rounders. Calgary still ended up with 3 picks in the 2nd so 1 or both (or 1 & a decent prospect to make up for the pick being later than the Oilers might have turned the trick. A flip of 7ths? Who cares. No. Going into camp with 3 good goalies might work but having 3 that aren't & hoping 1 might be isn't smart. I stand corrected.. forgot, the oilers used their other 1st rounder to get reinhart Our first would have definitely got it done (NYR wanted a 1st ).. but ya i could see BT being reluctant to have no picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds .. in hindsight , still not sure I'd do it.. that must be why he backed off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Flames dealt 2 seconds and only had 1 left after the Hamilton trade. They traded back up into the first to get Kylington and gave up their 3rd rounder to do it. If you wanted talbot that means flames either can't make the Hamilton trade or wouldn't have either Andersson or Kylington. I'll take the two of them over talbot any day of the week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 There was no 1st rounder involved in the Talbot trade. It was a 2nd, 3rd & a swap of 7th rounders. Calgary still ended up with 3 picks in the 2nd so 1 or both (or 1 & a decent prospect to make up for the pick being later than the Oilers might have turned the trick. A flip of 7ths? Who cares. No. Going into camp with 3 good goalies might work but having 3 that aren't & hoping 1 might be isn't smart. Sharks traded a 1st and a prospect for Jones. We might have beat the Oilers for Talbot, but not likely the Sharks for Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Sharks traded a 1st and a prospect for Jones. We might have beat the Oilers for Talbot, but not likely the Sharks for Jones. thats what we're saying .. if not for the Hamilton trade , our first trumps San Jose's.. depending on the prospect , or 2 2nds may have done it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 No. Going into camp with 3 good goalies might work but having 3 that aren't & hoping 1 might be isn't smart. Those were the same three goalies we had the prior season. The ones that got us to the second round. I would have preferred he brought on a Martin Jones or someone like that. But in terms of priorities spending his resources on Hamilton made sense. Great opportunity plus we had Hiller for another year and needed to see what we had in Ortio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Those were the same three goalies we had the prior season. The ones that got us to the second round. I would have preferred he brought on a Martin Jones or someone like that. But in terms of priorities spending his resources on Hamilton made sense. Great opportunity plus we had Hiller for another year and needed to see what we had in Ortio. True , i dont believe having 3 goalies fight it out in camp was an issue, or a bad thing .. not starting the season with a defined 2 is where it unraveled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Those were the same three goalies we had the prior season. The ones that got us to the second round. I would have preferred he brought on a Martin Jones or someone like that. But in terms of priorities spending his resources on Hamilton made sense. Great opportunity plus we had Hiller for another year and needed to see what we had in Ortio. Ortio had all of 6 games in 2015. That is not enough to say he got us anywhere let alone to the 2nd round. True , i dont believe having 3 goalies fight it out in camp was an issue, or a bad thing .. not starting the season with a defined 2 is where it unraveled The reason why coaches hate 3 goalies in camp or on the roster is practice time in nets. It is obvious that 3 goalies and only 2 nets is not the best of situations. Even an armchair GM can understand that simple math. Go ahead ask any coach in the league why 3 goalies do not work.. That is likely the answer you get. So I see posters here trying to give BT a pass on this problem that he already admitted was not a good call. Some of you even want to give a pass to the goalies because 2 of them played better later in the year or when the games didn't count anymore. They played poor because they didn't get in the ice time preseason because 3 of them were sharing 2 nets. All of them came out flat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Ortio had all of 6 games in 2015. That is not enough to say he got us anywhere let alone to the 2nd round. yes but without his wins we dont make the playoffs The reason why coaches hate 3 goalies in camp or on the roster is practice time in nets. It is obvious that 3 goalies and only 2 nets is not the best of situations. Even an armchair GM can understand that simple math. Go ahead ask any coach in the league why 3 goalies do not work.. That is likely the answer you get. So I see posters here trying to give BT a pass on this problem that he already admitted was not a good call. Some of you even want to give a pass to the goalies because 2 of them played better later in the year or when the games didn't count anymore. They played poor because they didn't get in the ice time preseason because 3 of them were sharing 2 nets. All of them came out flat.... most training camps include more than 2 goalies..maybe not in full out battle for 2 spots, but most end up playing more than 2 in preseason All 3 played very well in preseason ..but once the puck dropped in Vancouver , there should have been jobs defined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 It should also be noted that a 3 goalie system is not the Kiss of death.. NYI did pretty good with it this year , all 3 goalies had pretty reasonable stats. Yes, Halak is on record as saying he hated it, but it still functioned without their goalies tanking . yes, Berube only had a handful of starts so it comes back to , something else failed that scenario.. likely how they were used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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