Flames 2015-2016 Roster

[JTech780]

According to Treliving's presser it sounds like getting Giordano, Bouma and Backlund signed are his priorities this offseason.

I would guess $6mill plus for Giordano on 5 year or more deal.

Bouma could be $1.5-2.5 mill on 3 year deal.

Backlund I would guess around $3.5 mill on a 3 year deal.

[JTech780]

Agreed.

There's a time in a rebuild cycle to go after picks and that time has ended before our eyes. Moving forward, our focus needs to be NHL ready players who can make an impact either right away or within two years. What we should look into right now for example is a 2nd round pick for a 25-year-old Rene Bourque, a young Kristian Huselius, a young Kiprusoff, etc. Those were the kind of trades that moved the Flames from the basement to a legitimate Cup contender in the mid-2000s. We should look at those kind of moves again.

I think you always need picks. Gone are the days throwing away picks to get veteran players to take a run at the Cup. A prime example of what not to do is Pittsburgh. They have no picks and a very shallow prospect pool. You need to have young cheap players in impact roles in the salary cap era. The stars are going to take a large chunk of your cap, so you need the young players on ELC's to fill the holes.

That means that you still have to hold onto and acquire as many picks as you can and still stay competitive. We aren't in a Buffalo style rebuild where everyone over the age of 25 must go, but you still need to draft well and draft often to keep that cycle of young players coming into your lineup.

[The_People1]

Gone are the days throwing away picks to get veteran players to take a run at the Cup.

 

Most definitely.  Only when the window appears to be opened to the max or beginning to close should we trade high picks for rentals.  Did you not catch my post "25-year-old", "young", etc.?

 

While our draft picks are still perceived as possibly being high, it's a great time to cash in as we rise up the standings.  Now and the next two years is the time to trade picks for 25-year-olds who are entering their primes.  And we should keep these 25-year-olds for at least 5-years.

[UKFlamer]

$6 mill for Gio for 5 years. No thanks. So we keep him on until he's 36 ? with the injuries he keeps picking up every year ? as they would say in spain. Stoopido. Sign him to a couple of years at that price, no more, or be sensible and pay him stupid money now and have it reduce each year so we don't get shafted when he cant play. - Remember, in a couple of seasons, we are going to have a couple of players who will want big bucks. How can we do that if we stupidly throw money at older players now? We've been down that road before as well and how did that turn out?

 

I'm not saying we throw away picks or that we don't make use of picks but if you want to improve the team for next season and the next few seasons after that, you cannot do it with draft picks. Ask Edmonton how well that game is going for them.

 

If you want to continue trying to build through picks and prospects then you wont have a decent flames team until Guadreau, Bennett and Monohan are the veterans of the team. That's fine, if you want to go down that root. 

 

You still need your picks to ensure that you can keep bring quality players through every couple of years. The flames have missed out on that for a long time through trading away and bad drafting and we don't want to go back to that either. However, the priority has to be quality, ready to make a difference, players.

[The_People1]

$6 mill for Gio for 5 years. No thanks. So we keep him on until he's 36 ? with the injuries he keeps picking up every year ? as they would say in spain. Stoopido

 

Should we trade him then?  Rhett Warrener seems to think so based on his "sell high" philosophy.

 

I guess it depends what we can get. 

[darth_henning]

Here's my take:

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - Hudler

Ferland - Bennett - Poirier or FA signing (preferably big and skilled)

Bouma - Backlund - Colborne*/Poirier (If Colborne is moved)

Bolig - Stajan - Jooris

 

Giordano - Brodie

Wideman* - Russell

Engelland - ?

 

Ramo/Ortio

 

*Wideman is a question mark because I think he is a player we could see moved.

*Colborne, although a good player, just doesn't use his size as much as I would like to see. He shows flashes but then disappears.

 

I see us having decent cap room again for the 15/16 season. We could part ways with the likes of Wideman, Colborne, Byron, Hiller, Potter, Jones and Smid (depending on his health) just to name a few. This leaves us lots of wiggle room to sign a big name D man or a Right Winger in free agency and if we can garner a few picks along the way we continue the building of the franchise. Top of my wish list though is a big RW skill player.

 

In theory that looks nice, but I don't think that Ferlund is a second liner at this point. Possibly ever

 

Bouma is closer and could possibly take that roll IF he can keep improving his production like he did this year.

 

16 goals is pretty good, and 4th on the team behind our top line. That buys him the opportunity to start on the second line I think and see if he can make himself a 20 goal player. (assuming Bennett doesn't start on wing) If he can? great position filled If not? then we look elsewhere.

 

I don't know if Poirier is ready, but otherwise I like your lineup

 

 

According to Treliving's presser it sounds like getting Giordano, Bouma and Backlund signed are his priorities this offseason.

I would guess $6mill plus for Giordano on 5 year or more deal.

Bouma could be $1.5-2.5 mill on 3 year deal.

Backlund I would guess around $3.5 mill on a 3 year deal.

 

Gio at 6 mil for 2-3 years? OK.   But for 5? Oh hell no. He's at the peak of his career for another couple seasons, but he'll start declining as he ages, and we want to be able to trade him while he's till at the top of his game for a replacement.

 

Bouma and Backlund, I'm ok with both of those. Lets us see if they are parts of our future or if they are trade bait.

 

Personally I think those are the right signings to focus on first

[JTech780]

In theory that looks nice, but I don't think that Ferlund is a second liner at this point. Possibly ever

Bouma is closer and could possibly take that roll IF he can keep improving his production like he did this year.

16 goals is pretty good, and 4th on the team behind our top line. That buys him the opportunity to start on the second line I think and see if he can make himself a 20 goal player. (assuming Bennett doesn't start on wing) If he can? great position filled If not? then we look elsewhere.

I don't know if Poirier is ready, but otherwise I like your lineup

Gio at 6 mil for 2-3 years? OK. But for 5? Oh hell no. He's at the peak of his career for another couple seasons, but he'll start declining as he ages, and we want to be able to trade him while he's till at the top of his game for a replacement.

Bouma and Backlund, I'm ok with both of those. Lets us see if they are parts of our future or if they are trade bait.

Personally I think those are the right signings to focus on first

I would be surprised if Gio signs for anything less than 5 years. This guy is our best player and leader. You take care of your star players. I think if you offer him 2-3 years he will take it as a slap in the face.

[darth_henning]

He is currently our best D and one of our top players. No argument, but even he has to realize his age is a factor in the contract.

 

If he'd take something like 6-6-5-4-3 (averages to a little under 5 per year), then I'd consider term, but it would have to be front loaded. In 3-5 years he won't be our best player. And if he is we're in deep trouble.

 

If he wants full dollar value its shorter term, if he wants term its lower dollar value. Its the only way that works really. If he was even 28 then we could talk 5 years at full dollar.

[JTech780]

He is currently our best D and one of our top players. No argument, but even he has to realize his age is a factor in the contract.

If he'd take something like 6-6-5-4-3 (averages to a little under 5 per year), then I'd consider term, but it would have to be front loaded. In 3-5 years he won't be our best player. And if he is we're in deep trouble.

If he wants full dollar value its shorter term, if he wants term its lower dollar value. Its the only way that works really. If he was even 28 then we could talk 5 years at full dollar.

If you try to sign Gio for 3 years or under, he walks. If you try and offer an AAV under $5mill, he walks. If Gio walks, this team takes a huge step backwards. You live with the possibility of decline for what he brings and means to the team today. Its not like a 5 year deal takes him into his 40's, he will be 37.

If you don't go 5+ years and $6mill+, you may as well trade him right now. If you trade him now you better be able to get a player that can step into his shoes right away.

[tmac70]

Best comparable for Gio are :

 

Doughty 7 mill ( 26 years old)

G Suter 7.5 mill ( 30 years old)

A Petrilangleo 6.5 Mill (25 years old)

B Seabrook 5.8 mill( 30 Years old)

 

Gio at $6 to $6.5 is would be accurate for 5 years.

[cross16]

Agree with JTech 100%. IMO Gio doesn't take less then 4 years and doesn't go less then 6mill per and nor should he. This guys was the fricken slam dunk for the Norris before he got hurt and you are going to jerk him around with his contract? Gio's market value on a 3 year deal is probably 7 million so IMO if you try and do a 4 or 5 year deal in and around the 6 million range you are still getting tremendous value.

 

Smart Dman, like I think Gio is, can prolong their career. I'm less concerned about Dman as they get to the 35/36 range then I am with forwards because if you are smart, under converages and use of your stick you can make adjustments as your footspeed and physicality slows. I have zero problems with a 4 or 5 year deal for Gio.

[kehatch]

No question that you have to sign Giordano. 6 million with term makes sense.

If Treliving really wants to sign Backlund I am okay with it. It just wouldn't have surprised me if they moved him given what he is and what we have at the position.

Wideman is a guy I would trade for sure. I know as fans we like to keep players when they are playing well and dump them when they aren't. But given Wideman's age and his level of play over his career trading him now makes sense.

Hudler I am okay keeping until the deadline. But i don't want to give him 6x5 or something like that, and I don't want to lose him for nothing. I think you have to move him.

[travel_dude]

No question that you have to sign Giordano. 6 million with term makes sense.

If Treliving really wants to sign Backlund I am okay with it. It just wouldn't have surprised me if they moved him given what he is and what we have at the position.

Wideman is a guy I would trade for sure. I know as fans we like to keep players when they are playing well and dump them when they aren't. But given Wideman's age and his level of play over his career trading him now makes sense.

Hudler I am okay keeping until the deadline. But i don't want to give him 6x5 or something like that, and I don't want to lose him for nothing. I think you have to move him.

What did we give up to get Wideman - a late round picks for his rights and a stack of cash. I don't want to see our defensive goal scoring output decrease to plug up some other hole. We dumped JBow when he was worth something, but really got nothing other than Klimchuk. Point is, you don't always come out on top, even if it seems like a good idea at the yime. Klimchuk could become the perfect 3rd line LW, but JBow would have done us so much more with Wideman or Russell.

Sure, if Jersey wants to trade Gelinas for Wideman, I might think about it seriously, but that is still lopsided (in my mind).

[cross16]

What did we give up to get Wideman - a late round picks for his rights and a stack of cash. I don't want to see our defensive goal scoring output decrease to plug up some other hole. We dumped JBow when he was worth something, but really got nothing other than Klimchuk. Point is, you don't always come out on top, even if it seems like a good idea at the yime. Klimchuk could become the perfect 3rd line LW, but JBow would have done us so much more with Wideman or Russell.Sure, if Jersey wants to trade Gelinas for Wideman, I might think about it seriously, but that is still lopsided (in my mind).

Small technicality, but it was Poirier who was picked with the blues pick. Klimchuk was the Pens pick and technically should include Hunter smith in there two was Reto Berra got them the 2nd they used to take him.

I dint disagree with the point about value and trades though. Luckily I have more faith in this regime then Feasters when it comes to making deals so I think they would only move wiseman if value is there.

[UKFlamer]

Every player should be traded if it can bring us a big enough return. However, I can't see us getting a return like that for the same reasons I don't think we should sign him for 5 years. He's getting old and he's injury prone.

 

If he wants to see out his career in Calgary fine, sign him to a 5 year contract, but weight the salary accordingly. Right now we have the biggest cap space in the league. In two years time we will have 3 players wanting big big bucks to stay with us, if they continue to play as they have this season. So, if we have to give him $25m over the next 5 years then do it as 9,7,4,3,2. We don't need the cap room now, we will in two years and the years after.

 

His injury problems are a big concern. Given the last 4 years you have to assume the same for the future. A player who can only give you 60 games isn't worth 6 million a year imo.

[MAC331]

You give Giordano 5 years at 6 plus, don't mess with a good thing.

[MAC331]

I agree there needs to be one or two smart trades which will take a few key players with value from our current mix. I also have to agree with getting picks or whatever we can if BT is moving out players such as Raymond, Bollig and Jones to make room.

[travel_dude]

Every player should be traded if it can bring us a big enough return. However, I can't see us getting a return like that for the same reasons I don't think we should sign him for 5 years. He's getting old and he's injury prone.

 

If he wants to see out his career in Calgary fine, sign him to a 5 year contract, but weight the salary accordingly. Right now we have the biggest cap space in the league. In two years time we will have 3 players wanting big big bucks to stay with us, if they continue to play as they have this season. So, if we have to give him $25m over the next 5 years then do it as 9,7,4,3,2. We don't need the cap room now, we will in two years and the years after.

 

His injury problems are a big concern. Given the last 4 years you have to assume the same for the future. A player who can only give you 60 games isn't worth 6 million a year imo.

 

You are assuming that the cap stays the same for the next 5-6 years.  That is very doubtful.  

 

Gio is the driving force behind the change to the culture, more so than Hartley.  What he does, the players follow.  You want to have a diminishing cap hit, just remember the rules governing year to year change (35% max) and difference between 1st and last year (50% min).  In your example, year 1 could be 9m, but year 5 would have to be 4.5m.  

 

BT seems to prefer a consistent salary, so I would expect something like $6m per year.  Not bad for a potential Norris D-man.  He has played at that level 2 years in a row.  Pay the man.

[JTech780]

Let's look at it this way, unless something drastically changes next season, Giordano will get $6-7 mill over 6-7 years on the open market. So why would he substantially less money and term now.

[phoenix66]

I expect to see Gio get about 4-6 yrs in the 5-6 range, likely a no move for at least the first 3-4 yrs of that . I have full faith he'll get a deal that both sides are very happy with .

 

Personally I see Hudler and Wideman as currently untouchable.. without Hudler , Johnny and Monahan dont have the seasons they did, hes an obvious leader and an asset for the kids. As I suspected he was battling an injury in playoffs so we didnt see his full effect, but his regular season makes up for it. Also , his injured state in the playoffs showed in the drop of both Monahan(also inured as suspected) and Johnny.. a lot of the magic was missing . Thats all Hudler 

Wideman..OMG.. when Gio went down we found out what he was really made of. The guys a leader, stepped up .. played D i didnt know he was capable of. I dont believe in his role he can currently be replaced without spending 6-7 Mill

 

They say Playoffs is when you find out what a player is really made of.. they made me believe the following :

 

Jooris-- really disappointed, i expected him to be a Mr Playoff kinda guy.. he virtually disappeared, rightfully scratched a handful of times. I think hes now trade bait

 

Ramo: No disrespect to Hiller or what he's meant to this team this year , but Ramo was absolutely out of his mind against Anaheim, and i believe he would have won against Vancouver too.. i think our focus needs to be to sign him and move Hiller any way possible. If you wanted a guy to step up and own the #1 job, he did it.

 

Colbourne:.. took himself off the trade block IMHO, when he actually started using his body to hit people.. granted , needs to learn to do it smarter now, but if he can do that , he's a valuable player , no longer a space filler. He's shown he can play the wing, Id Make Bennett his centre next year  on the 2nd line

 

Ferland:..  dont even have to say it. possibly our very own Milan Lucic

 

Stajan: is a bubble, very valuable in his role, but also being paid like a scorer.. for the right price Id move him, but only if the deal is right 

 

 

Players i think can be moved, otherwise they'll lose their spots to new kids any way:  Mason Raymond

[JTech780]

I don't get why some are so quick to move Jones. Is he worth $4mill, probably not, but this is his last year on that contract and we have plenty of room so that is a non factor.

Jones brings size, physicality, secondary scoring and sound defensive play to our 3rd line RW position.

He is a player I wouldn't be looking to trade.

[phoenix66]

I don't get why some are so quick to move Jones. Is he worth $4mill, probably not, but this is his last year on that contract and we have plenty of room so that is a non factor.

Jones brings size, physicality, secondary scoring and sound defensive play to our 3rd line RW position.

He is a player I wouldn't be looking to trade.

 

I actually forgot about him in my post , I agree we totally keep him

[The_People1]

Giordano can get $8-mil-per for 3-years on the open market.  If the Flames can get him signed long term for $6-mil-per, then it's a good deal.

[darth_henning]

They say Playoffs is when you find out what a player is really made of.. they made me believe the following :

 

Jooris-- really disappointed, i expected him to be a Mr Playoff kinda guy.. he virtually disappeared, rightfully scratched a handful of times. I think hes now trade bait

 

Ramo: No disrespect to Hiller or what he's meant to this team this year , but Ramo was absolutely out of his mind against Anaheim, and i believe he would have won against Vancouver too.. i think our focus needs to be to sign him and move Hiller any way possible. If you wanted a guy to step up and own the #1 job, he did it.

 

Colbourne:.. took himself off the trade block IMHO, when he actually started using his body to hit people.. granted , needs to learn to do it smarter now, but if he can do that , he's a valuable player , no longer a space filler. He's shown he can play the wing, Id Make Bennett his centre next year  on the 2nd line

 

Ferland:..  dont even have to say it. possibly our very own Milan Lucic

 

Stajan: is a bubble, very valuable in his role, but also being paid like a scorer.. for the right price Id move him, but only if the deal is right 

 

 

Players i think can be moved, otherwise they'll lose their spots to new kids any way:  Mason Raymond

 

I agree with most of this except Jooris. Yes, he had a rather poor playoffs (and last portion of the season). I wouldn't be throwing him to the wolves just yet though. He's a rookiee who wasn't expected to ever play in the NHL and still managed to be tied for 6th among our active forwards in goals. Most of that admittedly came when playing with Hudler, so there may be an issue there.

 

Rather than let him walk as a RFA, I'd offer him a one year "show me" contract with a slight increase in dollar value. He improves, he gets a better contract. He doesn't or regresses, he becomes trade bait. Right now we don't know what we have. And with Backlund and Stajan frequently discussed as on the trading block, and it unclear if Bennett will be centering or winging this coming year, I'd want to have the option until our lines are a little more set.

 

 

Giordano can get $8-mil-per for 3-years on the open market.  If the Flames can get him signed long term for $6-mil-per, then it's a good deal.

 

I'd rather pay the 8-mil for 3 years while we know he will still be playing the same level, than 6 mil for 5+ if we need to trade him in 4 years if his game is declining.

 

Or as someone has suggested, front load his contract.

 

Hes someone we absolutely need in the near-term future (3ish years) while the kids mature on the team, and who is the perfect leader for where we are. But in 5 years, that's not going to be the case. He'll still be a decent player, but he won't be the start of the team anymore. That's a factor.

[phoenix66]

OH I absolutely sign him, not suggesting we discard him outright , i just feel he may be definitely available in a trade.

On the flipside i think trading Backlund is a mistake, Stajan only if the deal is right .. Bennett I believe goes center next year , with winger options in some situations.,

I could actually see a line of Ferland-Bennett- Colbourne next year 

 

 

I agree with most of this except Jooris. Yes, he had a rather poor playoffs (and last portion of the season). I wouldn't be throwing him to the wolves just yet though. He's a rookiee who wasn't expected to ever play in the NHL and still managed to be tied for 6th among our active forwards in goals. Most of that admittedly came when playing with Hudler, so there may be an issue there.

 

Rather than let him walk as a RFA, I'd offer him a one year "show me" contract with a slight increase in dollar value. He improves, he gets a better contract. He doesn't or regresses, he becomes trade bait. Right now we don't know what we have. And with Backlund and Stajan frequently discussed as on the trading block, and it unclear if Bennett will be centering or winging this coming year, I'd want to have the option until our lines are a little more set.