Flames Defense

[Thebrewcrew]

31 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

not saying we aren’t good enough, but how long is Tanev out to start the season? I know he’s not the only reason we made the playoffs, but a big reason. If the team can tread around the playoffs until he’s back at 100% then we have a good chance. I’m guessing it’ll be weeks, maybe a month at the most? 
 

id prefer him back at 100% though. He’s too good to lose to another injury if he comes back too soon and re-injures it.

His return is unclear. Could be anywhere from October to December.

[jjgallow]

 

Not sure if people should be posting in this thread or a new MacKenzie Weegar thread,

 

Either way, it's pretty funny that we're not talking about him.

 

I would be pretty excited actually but it's just not my nature and his contract expires this coming season.

[bosn111]

Weegar is being discussed in some threads, but I am sure he will get more attention once he signs an extension.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Not sure if people should be posting in this thread or a new MacKenzie Weegar thread,

 

Either way, it's pretty funny that we're not talking about him.

 

I would be pretty excited actually but it's just not my nature and his contract expires this coming season.

 

Could call this thread "9 Defense".

When we get down to the final number after trades, we can resurrect if you like.

[bosn111]

If we look at the Flames D now and in the future with depth charts, it may help consider trades this summer and moving forward. Including RFA unsigned.

 

Left side

 

Weegar 28 1UFA Top 4

Hanifin 25 2UFA Top 4

Kylington 25 RFA Mid pair

Zadorov 27 2UFA Bottom 4

Mackey 25 1RFA Bottom pair

Valimaki 23 1RFA Bottom pair (current)

Gilbert 25 2UFA 7th at best

Kuznetsov 20 2RFA Future bottom 4?waiver exempt

Poirier 20 3RFA Future mid pair? waiver exempt

Solovyov 22 2RFA Future bottom 4?waiver exempt

Poolman 26 1UFA minors

 

Right side

 

Andersson 25 4UFA Top 4

Weegar 28 1UFA Top 4

Tanev 32 2UFA Top 4
Meloche 25 1RFA Bottom 4

DeSimone 27 2UFA minors 

Others may have more insight into expectations of young D but from what I understand about them:

 

Valimaki was expected to be a left side Andersson, so far he is not close to reaching that.

 

Mackey left side Andersson lite. Does everything well but nothing exceptional. Good for bottom 4 maybe.

 

Kuznetsov is a young Zadorov. More D minded with a bit of a mean streak. Makes sense why Zaddy signed for 2 more years. Likely replacement in the works.

 

Poirier looks more offensive similar to Kylington. At least 2 years needed in minors.

 

Solovyov looks more D focused. Another Zadorov replacement?

 

What the Flames really need right now is to get a young AHL prospect RD who projects as a Tanev replacement in 2-3 years. Mid pair, D focused RS.

 

If Weegar can sign 6 years, Hanifin might be able to be moved. I don’t know when to move Hanifin as he is currently in the sweet spot, but don’t want to lose him to UFA for nothing if Poirier isn’t ready yet.

 

Currently

 

Weegar / Andersson 

Hanifin / Tanev 

Zadorov / Meloche 

Mackey 

 

In 2 years (anticipating Weegar extension with no other changes)

 

Weegar / Andersson 

Poirier / ??

Kuznetsov / ?? 

Solovyov 

 

Right side D needs attention for prospects. Valimaki, Kylington should be used to address this. I like Hanifin but if Kylington signs for 3 or less for 3+ years, I am fine trading Hanifin for value.

 

What are some 2 years out RD prospects we could aim for?
 

Lassi Thomson from Ottawa?

Mukhamadullin from Jersey?

Lundmark from Winnipeg?

I don’t know. Anyone else have thoughts?

[travel_dude]

Weeger is RHS but played a lot of LD.

Kuz is a LHS but plays a lot of RD.

Weeger could move to RD on the top pair and we could move Ras to 2nd pair.

No slight to anyone, just have two top LD to play with them.

We are still fairly young on D.

 

Unfortunately, there isn't much appetite to trades of a LD for a RD.

You have to draft those puppies.

 

We might be forced to drop Tanev to the 3rd pairing and bring in Poirier.

Or we groom Valimaki or Mackey to take over from Hanifin.

[tmac70]

On 7/25/2022 at 1:16 PM, travel_dude said:

Weeger is RHS but played a lot of LD.

Kuz is a LHS but plays a lot of RD.

Weeger could move to RD on the top pair and we could move Ras to 2nd pair.

No slight to anyone, just have two top LD to play with them.

We are still fairly young on D.

 

Unfortunately, there isn't much appetite to trades of a LD for a RD.

You have to draft those puppies.

 

We might be forced to drop Tanev to the 3rd pairing and bring in Poirier.

Or we groom Valimaki or Mackey to take over from Hanifin.

Sutter likes safe and experianced. Unless a younger player can out play some one at camp the roster will be moslty veteran guys. I think Meloche was brought in to replace Gubby and Weeger is a cheaper more effective Kylington, I can see Kylington beign moved if there is any signs of signing Weeger. Defense and goal tending is not my concerns, we need to address the hot mess in the bottom end of the forwards. 

 

Tanev Weeger

Hanifin Anderson

Zadorov Meloche

Vali Mackey 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Sutter likes safe and experianced. Unless a younger player can out play some one at camp the roster will be moslty veteran guys. I think Meloche was brought in to replace Gubby and Weeger is a cheaper more effective Kylington, I can see Kylington beign moved if there is any signs of signing Weeger. Defense and goal tending is not my concerns, we need to address the hot mess in the bottom end of the forwards. 

 

Tanev Weeger

Hanifin Anderson

Zadorov Meloche

Vali Mackey 

 

I was talking about what Bosn111 had said about excess LD and not enough RD.

Weeger is actually more of a #1D than Hanifin.

Does that mean the top pair is Weeger-Ras?

2nd pair is a choice of Hanifin or Kylington, with Hanifin being the more experienced.

Doesn't mean he is the right choice, just currently more consistent.

Meloche for sure was a Guddy replacement.

The addition of Weeger puts in doubt any of the pairs though.

Do you use a 3rd pairing guy like Meloche or a puck mover like Kylington.

Do you trade Hanifin or Kylington to improve the forward group?

Valimaki and Mackey don't learn the game sitting out for games upon games.

[MP5029]

4 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Sutter likes safe and experianced. Unless a younger player can out play some one at camp the roster will be moslty veteran guys. I think Meloche was brought in to replace Gubby and Weeger is a cheaper more effective Kylington, I can see Kylington beign moved if there is any signs of signing Weeger. Defense and goal tending is not my concerns, we need to address the hot mess in the bottom end of the forwards. 

 

Tanev Weeger

Hanifin Anderson

Zadorov Meloche

Vali Mackey 

I mostly agree here, except the top priority should be the top RW pass/playmaker gaping hole…Fix that and I think most of the bottom line can shake out well…

Manji/Lindholm/???

Hub/Monahan/Toffoil 

Colman/Backlund/Dube

Lucic/Ruzi/Rus

Lewis

 

the only mess I can see is if we want to slot in Pelletier…then Lucic needs to be moved some how…

 

Manji/Lindholm/????? 

Hubs/Monahan/Toffoil 
Pelletier/Ruzi/Dube

Coleman/Backlund/Rus

Lewis

 

its that RW playmaker passer for Lindholm and Manji…Taking Lucic out of the line up and adding Pelletier it’s looks incredible… but still missing that RW for Manji and Lindholm…sure Lindholm can set for Manji but I think he’s better set as a shooter then as a secondary setup guy kinda like with Gaudreau…

 

Hub with Monahan and Toffoil set up very nicely…provided Monahan is 100% we now know he’s wasn’t last year, we could all see it even early on and he degraded fast because he wasn’t…but if he is Holly smokes that could be an incredible line and and able to pack a 1-2 punch followed but a shutdown line of Coleman and Backlund and Rus…talk about frustrating an opposition team too line…further to that it’s also a danger to score goals…

 

the Pelletier add with Ruzi and Dube is a young skilled energy line with size in the middle…bit of a gamble there but Coleman and Backlund can move around a bit should the younger guys need some insulation…easy flip would be Dube to Colman’s LW and Vice verse…if Ruzi struggles switching with Backlund is simple.

 

super deep actually as long as that RW slot is filled…

 

as for D it’s much improved, it was good last year and it’s deeper and better this year, it’s gonna be among the best 3 pairs in the NHL…Especially under Sutter.  All except Tanev are young and still getting better each year…that’s one position that’s been strong and keeps getting stronger and deeper…The only reason to move any of them is 

 

1. we have too many, 2 gotta go unfortunately 

 

2. age, Tanev or 2b. Hanifin or like with expiring contracts and have not

signed by TDL…simple

asset management…

 

I do agree, we have succession plans for pretty much all The D except Tanev…who to be honest I’d like to have 3 of…but 1 in the pipeline would do

 

[tmac70]

47 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I was talking about what Bosn111 had said about excess LD and not enough RD.

Weeger is actually more of a #1D than Hanifin.

Does that mean the top pair is Weeger-Ras?

2nd pair is a choice of Hanifin or Kylington, with Hanifin being the more experienced.

Doesn't mean he is the right choice, just currently more consistent.

Meloche for sure was a Guddy replacement.

The addition of Weeger puts in doubt any of the pairs though.

Do you use a 3rd pairing guy like Meloche or a puck mover like Kylington.

Do you trade Hanifin or Kylington to improve the forward group?

Valimaki and Mackey don't learn the game sitting out for games upon games.

If there is any sign Weeger is signing long term I think that move Kylington out. He is most likely due 3-3.5 based on last year but he has warts. I have to agree with others Kylingtons skills are far more advanced than his ability for his Brain to compete. I am not opposed to moving Hanfin or Kylington but the replacements need to be equal to our better than what we have. So if we could do a Mony Hanifin & Kylington for Chychurn type deal start the car, not sure Arizonia finds that atttractive. I can see Kyllington moved to keep Valimaki for sure just based on price point. Kylington needs to be sheltered and there is no one else that can out side of Tanev.  

[tmac70]

50 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

I mostly agree here, except the top priority should be the top RW pass/playmaker gaping hole…Fix that and I think most of the bottom line can shake out well…

Manji/Lindholm/???

Hub/Monahan/Toffoil 

Colman/Backlund/Dube

Lucic/Ruzi/Rus

Lewis

 

the only mess I can see is if we want to slot in Pelletier…then Lucic needs to be moved some how…

 

Manji/Lindholm/????? 

Hubs/Monahan/Toffoil 
Pelletier/Ruzi/Dube

Coleman/Backlund/Rus

Lewis

 

its that RW playmaker passer for Lindholm and Manji…Taking Lucic out of the line up and adding Pelletier it’s looks incredible… but still missing that RW for Manji and Lindholm…sure Lindholm can set for Manji but I think he’s better set as a shooter then as a secondary setup guy kinda like with Gaudreau…

 

Hub with Monahan and Toffoil set up very nicely…provided Monahan is 100% we now know he’s wasn’t last year, we could all see it even early on and he degraded fast because he wasn’t…but if he is Holly smokes that could be an incredible line and and able to pack a 1-2 punch followed but a shutdown line of Coleman and Backlund and Rus…talk about frustrating an opposition team too line…further to that it’s also a danger to score goals…

 

the Pelletier add with Ruzi and Dube is a young skilled energy line with size in the middle…bit of a gamble there but Coleman and Backlund can move around a bit should the younger guys need some insulation…easy flip would be Dube to Colman’s LW and Vice verse…if Ruzi struggles switching with Backlund is simple.

 

super deep actually as long as that RW slot is filled…

 

as for D it’s much improved, it was good last year and it’s deeper and better this year, it’s gonna be among the best 3 pairs in the NHL…Especially under Sutter.  All except Tanev are young and still getting better each year…that’s one position that’s been strong and keeps getting stronger and deeper…The only reason to move any of them is 

 

1. we have too many, 2 gotta go unfortunately 

 

2. age, Tanev or 2b. Hanifin or like with expiring contracts and have not

signed by TDL…simple

asset management…

 

I do agree, we have succession plans for pretty much all The D except Tanev…who to be honest I’d like to have 3 of…but 1 in the pipeline would do

 

I just don't see where Mags gets into a top line roll over Huberdeau and for the life of me I just couldn't put Mony and Toffoli toughter expect on PP. With Mony you need to speedy creative wingers ie JG and Hudler. With Toffoli he needs a speedy center and speed with creativity on the opposite wing. I agree we need a creative playmaker top 6, I mentioned Kessel but was shot down. The market for a top six forward is limited unless its via trades and we just seen the price tag for that. Pelltier will not make the club this year, can't see it nor do I agree he should unless its a spectacular camp.  Sonny Milano could work but there has to be an underlying issue if the Ducks didn't give him a QO. I think Phillips would be your best option for a creative winger in the AHL crowd but man that boy is small, but he has survived this long. I don't mind our D. This trade filled the hole of JG and strengthen the D. Last year we all felt we were 2-3 players away from it, I think we are still 3-4 away. If we can get 2 top six forwards than we can push players down the roster. This club will be a contender when Backs is your 3rd line center and Lucic is off the books.

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

If there is any sign Weeger is signing long term I think that move Kylington out. He is most likely due 3-3.5 based on last year but he has warts. I have to agree with others Kylingtons skills are far more advanced than his ability for his Brain to compete. I am not opposed to moving Hanfin or Kylington but the replacements need to be equal to our better than what we have. So if we could do a Mony Hanifin & Kylington for Chychurn type deal start the car, not sure Arizonia finds that atttractive. I can see Kyllington moved to keep Valimaki for sure just based on price point. Kylington needs to be sheltered and there is no one else that can out side of Tanev.  

 

Sheltered and playing top 4 minutes with Tanev.  Hmmm.

Seems to me he was playing directly against McDavid in the playoffs.  

In 12 playoff games he only was a minus player in one game.

Please tell me which games he was the reason why we lost.

Every D-man has some warts, including Zaddy, who we just signed.

 

Now, if you can get Chychrun for Mony + Hanifin + Kyl?  Sure no problem.

 

I'm not adverse to trading any of Hanifin, Kylington, Valimaki or Mackey.

But I don't buy into the idea that Kyl is not worth it to keep.

[tmac70]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sheltered and playing top 4 minutes with Tanev.  Hmmm.

Seems to me he was playing directly against McDavid in the playoffs.  

In 12 playoff games he only was a minus player in one game.

Please tell me which games he was the reason why we lost.

Every D-man has some warts, including Zaddy, who we just signed.

 

Now, if you can get Chychrun for Mony + Hanifin + Kyl?  Sure no problem.

 

I'm not adverse to trading any of Hanifin, Kylington, Valimaki or Mackey.

But I don't buy into the idea that Kyl is not worth it to keep.

We see it different I see the defensive grouping, So I am not seeing the fit anymore. 

Tanev Weegar

Hanifin Anderson

Zadorov Meloche 

 

Wegs was a top 4 d man so either your breaking up Anderson and Hanifin . Nothing is a lock but I just think Meloche and Zad are your 3rd paring unless your bumping Hanifin or Anderson down the charts to put Kylington in the roster with Tanev I don't see his fit on the roster any longer. Now could he be a 7th alternate can't see it at 3-3.5 Million. IMHO the aqusition of Weegar has made Kylington odd man out 

 

 

 

 

 

[flames for life]

4 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

We see it different I see the defensive grouping, So I am not seeing the fit anymore. 

Tanev Weegar

Hanifin Anderson

Zadorov Meloche 

 

Wegs was a top 4 d man so either your breaking up Anderson and Hanifin . Nothing is a lock but I just think Meloche and Zad are your 3rd paring unless your bumping Hanifin or Anderson down the charts to put Kylington in the roster with Tanev I don't see his fit on the roster any longer. Now could he be a 7th alternate can't see it at 3-3.5 Million. IMHO the aqusition of Weegar has made Kylington odd man out 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t agree at all that Kylington is odd man out.  If anything, I would keep Kylington and trade Hanifin!  Just as many “warts”, but maybe higher trade value.  Valimaki is seen as having a higher ceiling, but again, I’d rather have Kylington.  Kylington accepts his criticism and works to overcome it;  Valimaki has done little to improve, as is shown by his stats in the AHL.

Kylington did not falter one bit in the playoffs, despite not having his regular partner in the second round.

Am I blowing Kylington’s horn a bit?  Absolutely!!  It bugs me no end that his efforts, hockey sense, or improvements are constantly minimized or dismissed.  I still think we have not seen his best.  I think I read he was compared as Weeger-lite.  My question is “is that a bad thing?”  To have a number 1, and number 1-lite defensive pairing somehow doesn’t really upset me!

 

Weeger-Andersson

Kylington-Tanev

Zaddy-Meloche

 

Mackey +
 

I'm not seeing a downside here.

 

[MP5029]

40 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I just don't see where Mags gets into a top line roll over Huberdeau and for the life of me I just couldn't put Mony and Toffoli toughter expect on PP. With Mony you need to speedy creative wingers ie JG and Hudler. With Toffoli he needs a speedy center and speed with creativity on the opposite wing. I agree we need a creative playmaker top 6, I mentioned Kessel but was shot down. The market for a top six forward is limited unless its via trades and we just seen the price tag for that. Pelltier will not make the club this year, can't see it nor do I agree he should unless its a spectacular camp.  Sonny Milano could work but there has to be an underlying issue if the Ducks didn't give him a QO. I think Phillips would be your best option for a creative winger in the AHL crowd but man that boy is small, but he has survived this long. I don't mind our D. This trade filled the hole of JG and strengthen the D. Last year we all felt we were 2-3 players away from it, I think we are still 3-4 away. If we can get 2 top six forwards than we can push players down the roster. This club will be a contender when Backs is your 3rd line center and Lucic is off the books.

I guess I should have mentioned this…don’t read too much into the order, the key is line chemistry and what players help each other the best…won’t matter if I listed them as the 4th line…with Sutter it’s all about production by player and line…

 

im just trying to maximize what we have with as few moves as possible…those lines who knows…maybe then”kid” line with Pelletier/Ruzi/Dube take off and become the best line next season…

 

point is maximum possible balance throughout, with least needs based on what is there now.

 

let’s be honest, if Monahan’s health is good and he returns to form, no one here will want to trade him…im

a huge fan and supporter of him but honestly he’s worth zip right now in trade…I see a window of opportunity to bring his value way up for trade next year by playing him with Hubs…him and as much of a Toffoil advocate as I had been,

same for him too…it also helps the team in many other ways by having a crazy scoring 2nd line threat, both Monahan and Toffoil will thrive with him…also trade value for both…Hubs seems to be an iron man type so as often as I advocate for younger he’s one of those guys I see as still crazy good at 35-37 years…goal here would be to trade Monahan and Toffoil in the next few years for younger elite (ish) players for Hubs to Mentor and with any luck eventually find either a Unicorn leader like Iggy or a generational player to replace Hubs even later…

 

anyway, as for Lindholm, he’s your ideal

Ctr, he can lead a line, Manji can absolutely do

better with him..and make No mistake Tachuck and Gaudeau I credit at least 29

of their career pts to just playing with Lindholm…add 20 to Manji

and see where he is? Pretty close to Tachuck or Gaudreau..heck I’d say manji scores at least 40 with just playing with Lindholm…add a guy like

Necas on the RW and then you have perfect balance..Manji the elite scorer, Lindholm the equal pass and scoring threat and a passer like

Necas and you have the second guess of pass or

shoot with Lindholm..Necas is gonna pass to Manji or Lindhom or is Lindholm gonna pass that off to

manjo or is he gonna shoot..thats exactly why the Gaudrea/Lindholm/Tachuck line was so good…add a guy like

Necas and it’s the same

thing only Manji is your new Tachuck, Lindhom is well..Lindholm, and then your new passer is your new Gaudreau…

 

best part of only landing just a playmaker RW is it lets Hubs be the new And much improved Gaudreau for Monahan and Toffoil so a whole new threat on another line… that alone will be crazy…add in a Background/Coleman duo forma

shut down team with an option of either Dube as a scoring and forecheck threat or Russo as an added shut down man who is big and can skate and that’s not gonna be fun for the other team…

 

then there is the Ruzi factor…pending on how you use him I could see an high energy, turnover line with speed and a possible added scoring threat…

 

it just needs that 1 RW. Playmaker to bring this team to a top 5 or better team…it’s there for the making…

 

added to that the D is gonna be pretty insane, has the making of a dream team

D without a so called top D…but who cares…I’d much rather have 6 D that are all top 4 able over a 1 stud D and a bunch of bottom pairs ..and that’s what this current D looks like, a bunch of top 4 in all

3 pairs that’s gonna be a nightmare for even the best Offensive teams.. yes I’m talking the likes of McKinnon and McDavid having trouble…I love this current D setup…big, faster, mobile and with Sutter Defensively sound.

[MP5029]

12 minutes ago, flames for life said:

I don’t agree at all that Kylington is odd man out.  If anything, I would keep Kylington and trade Hanifin!  Just as many “warts”, but maybe higher trade value.  Valimaki is seen as having a higher ceiling, but again, I’d rather have Kylington.  Kylington accepts his criticism and works to overcome it;  Valimaki has done little to improve, as is shown by his stats in the AHL.

Kylington did not falter one bit in the playoffs, despite not having his regular partner in the second round.

Am I blowing Kylington’s horn a bit?  Absolutely!!  It bugs me no end that his efforts, hockey sense, or improvements are constantly minimized or dismissed.  I still think we have not seen his best.  I think I read he was compared as Weeger-lite.  My question is “is that a bad thing?”  To have a number 1, and number 1-lite defensive pairing somehow doesn’t really upset me!

 

Weeger-Andersson

Kylington-Tanev

Zaddy-Meloche

 

Mackey +
 

I'm not seeing a downside here.

 

This, exactly this D setup 100% hands down.

Unless Tanev is not ready then id

be inclined to use (unless he’s used in a trade for a top line RW playmaker):

 

Valimaki/Anderson

kylington/Weegar

Zaddy/Meloch 

I Suggested the Valimaki/Anderson pair early last year so

i gotta stick with that lol..but also makeS some sense…

 

last point, having so many options on D is really fun…and definitely something not many can say they have…this is a really deep D group now…soma typical Sutter team built from the G out…Perfect for Sutter and Cgy bad for the rest of the NHL teams lol 

 

[jjgallow]

Agreed on trading Hanifin, no idea why we traded for him to begin with.

 

But I would be a little choked if we traded him for a left winger lol.

 

We still have needs at the position although Weegar has eased this somewhat.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Agreed on trading Hanifin, no idea why we traded for him to begin with.

 

But I would be a little choked if we traded him for a left winger lol.

 

We still have needs at the position although Weegar has eased this somewhat.

 

I was a little reluctant if we hadn't got Weeger.

Hanifin was the player CAR wanted to get rid of that entire season.

I was actually okay with the way he played for us the last 2 seasons.

But I don't see him being a top 2 guy.

And he doesn't seem to get any better each year, just remains solid.

 

His spot in the lineup means that he should be worth a top 6 C.

If that was a top 3 RW, no problem, but I prefer a RHS C.

A top 6 C means we can contruct a 2nd scoring line.

Pelletier lessens the need for a middle 6 LW.

We roll Ruzicka and Rooney with Lewis on the 4th line.

Rozie can jump to the 2nd scoring line as needed or earned.

A RHC C allow us to move them to RW as needed.

 

I don't hate Hanifin, but we have to maximize assets.

I don't see Valimaki being worth much other than for his age and perigree.

Mackey has little trade value, but could be NHL ready.

Meloche is just a depth guy that could prove to be decent enough.

Hard to tell coming from SJ.

If Kyl is the odd man out, whatever.

Get the most you can.

[Sarasti]

Id personally keep Kylington over Hanifin and the reasons are two-fold.

Firstly - they are similar players but Kylington has a more dynamic skillset 

Secondly - Kylington is cheaper 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I was a little reluctant if we hadn't got Weeger.

Hanifin was the player CAR wanted to get rid of that entire season.

I was actually okay with the way he played for us the last 2 seasons.

But I don't see him being a top 2 guy.

And he doesn't seem to get any better each year, just remains solid.

 

His spot in the lineup means that he should be worth a top 6 C.

If that was a top 3 RW, no problem, but I prefer a RHS C.

A top 6 C means we can contruct a 2nd scoring line.

Pelletier lessens the need for a middle 6 LW.

We roll Ruzicka and Rooney with Lewis on the 4th line.

Rozie can jump to the 2nd scoring line as needed or earned.

A RHC C allow us to move them to RW as needed.

 

I don't hate Hanifin, but we have to maximize assets.

I don't see Valimaki being worth much other than for his age and perigree.

Mackey has little trade value, but could be NHL ready.

Meloche is just a depth guy that could prove to be decent enough.

Hard to tell coming from SJ.

If Kyl is the odd man out, whatever.

Get the most you can.

 

Well you know I would say trade Hanifin for picks, but if we're playing the contender game I think you go for another D in his place, even if it's a prospect that gets called up later.  Maybe a package deal or something.

 

The thing with center, is, what we're actually missing there is a first line C.   Say we acquire Kadri like you want.  Well all of a sudden we're good at C.  With Backlund, Lindholm etc.

 

On other hand, D was our greatest weakness in the playoffs so if you're looking to improve there, can't dilute it.

[travel_dude]

51 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well you know I would say trade Hanifin for picks, but if we're playing the contender game I think you go for another D in his place, even if it's a prospect that gets called up later.  Maybe a package deal or something.

 

The thing with center, is, what we're actually missing there is a first line C.   Say we acquire Kadri like you want.  Well all of a sudden we're good at C.  With Backlund, Lindholm etc.

 

On other hand, D was our greatest weakness in the playoffs so if you're looking to improve there, can't dilute it.

 

Naw, I have kinda walked back on Kadri.

Too expensive too long.

I'm sure he would be a good player for about 5 years maybe.

But that also has zero to do with a trade.

 

I think we have some different weeknesses in the playoffs.

In round 1 it was scoring and winning draws and PP.

In round 2 it was depth D and lack of secondary scoring.

And a burnt out G from round 1.

 

I would be fine with trading a D for a D that can pass through waivers.

But that doesn't happen too often with good young ones.

But if you look at our roster right now you can see a couple of holes.

Two holes have putty blocking them from leaking.

[tmac70]

4 hours ago, MP5029 said:

I guess I should have mentioned this…don’t read too much into the order, the key is line chemistry and what players help each other the best…won’t matter if I listed them as the 4th line…with Sutter it’s all about production by player and line…

 

im just trying to maximize what we have with as few moves as possible…those lines who knows…maybe then”kid” line with Pelletier/Ruzi/Dube take off and become the best line next season…

 

point is maximum possible balance throughout, with least needs based on what is there now.

 

let’s be honest, if Monahan’s health is good and he returns to form, no one here will want to trade him…im

a huge fan and supporter of him but honestly he’s worth zip right now in trade…I see a window of opportunity to bring his value way up for trade next year by playing him with Hubs…him and as much of a Toffoil advocate as I had been,

same for him too…it also helps the team in many other ways by having a crazy scoring 2nd line threat, both Monahan and Toffoil will thrive with him…also trade value for both…Hubs seems to be an iron man type so as often as I advocate for younger he’s one of those guys I see as still crazy good at 35-37 years…goal here would be to trade Monahan and Toffoil in the next few years for younger elite (ish) players for Hubs to Mentor and with any luck eventually find either a Unicorn leader like Iggy or a generational player to replace Hubs even later…

 

anyway, as for Lindholm, he’s your ideal

Ctr, he can lead a line, Manji can absolutely do

better with him..and make No mistake Tachuck and Gaudeau I credit at least 29

of their career pts to just playing with Lindholm…add 20 to Manji

and see where he is? Pretty close to Tachuck or Gaudreau..heck I’d say manji scores at least 40 with just playing with Lindholm…add a guy like

Necas on the RW and then you have perfect balance..Manji the elite scorer, Lindholm the equal pass and scoring threat and a passer like

Necas and you have the second guess of pass or

shoot with Lindholm..Necas is gonna pass to Manji or Lindhom or is Lindholm gonna pass that off to

manjo or is he gonna shoot..thats exactly why the Gaudrea/Lindholm/Tachuck line was so good…add a guy like

Necas and it’s the same

thing only Manji is your new Tachuck, Lindhom is well..Lindholm, and then your new passer is your new Gaudreau…

 

best part of only landing just a playmaker RW is it lets Hubs be the new And much improved Gaudreau for Monahan and Toffoil so a whole new threat on another line… that alone will be crazy…add in a Background/Coleman duo forma

shut down team with an option of either Dube as a scoring and forecheck threat or Russo as an added shut down man who is big and can skate and that’s not gonna be fun for the other team…

 

then there is the Ruzi factor…pending on how you use him I could see an high energy, turnover line with speed and a possible added scoring threat…

 

it just needs that 1 RW. Playmaker to bring this team to a top 5 or better team…it’s there for the making…

 

added to that the D is gonna be pretty insane, has the making of a dream team

D without a so called top D…but who cares…I’d much rather have 6 D that are all top 4 able over a 1 stud D and a bunch of bottom pairs ..and that’s what this current D looks like, a bunch of top 4 in all

3 pairs that’s gonna be a nightmare for even the best Offensive teams.. yes I’m talking the likes of McKinnon and McDavid having trouble…I love this current D setup…big, faster, mobile and with Sutter Defensively sound.

Putting Monhan and Toffoli with Huberdeau is just anchoring the guy down. Now you want to put Hubs with Lindholm Toffoli I can get that, Mags is a better option I get that. The other thing is I know this is all speculative, a rookie line won't happen with Sutter it jsut won't. Thirdly, I keep seeing Necas name as well as Barzel, why would NYI trade their best player? Necas was part of the Chucky deal as an add on to may Teravian ++. That doesn't even come close to what we got. If Necas is in play what do we have that they need outside that they don't have outside of draft choices? FInally as a top contender we are short 3 players I am afraid, whcih depends on what we bring in. We still need a dynamic center and 2 bottom line forwards, or 1 top 6 winger and 2 bottom 6 wingers. 

 

Am I excited to add Huberdeau, and weeger for sure. Its a positive boost to the roster, but to say we are now one player away from top 5 team is to many "if and buts" for me.  I mentioned earlier, when Backs is your 3rd line C, Lucic is off the roster and you trade Monhan + for a top 6 winger maybe than you will see me get very excited about contending. Last year we were 2-3 players short, with Chucky gone we are now at least 3 players shy

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Naw, I have kinda walked back on Kadri.

Too expensive too long.

I'm sure he would be a good player for about 5 years maybe.

But that also has zero to do with a trade.

 

I think we have some different weeknesses in the playoffs.

In round 1 it was scoring and winning draws and PP.

In round 2 it was depth D and lack of secondary scoring.

And a burnt out G from round 1.

 

I would be fine with trading a D for a D that can pass through waivers.

But that doesn't happen too often with good young ones.

But if you look at our roster right now you can see a couple of holes.

Two holes have putty blocking them from leaking.

 

No arguement there lol.

 

but I think it does take you back to rebuild territory pretty quick if you don't go Kadri-stupid.

 

we've replaced Tkachuk, but we haven't replaced Gaudreau.   Without doing that, imho we go at least middle of pack.

 

anyway....it's odd because trading Hannifin does sort of....make us better at defense. lol.

 

all the same I still think we are took week at D to leave a void there.   And Hanifin isn't going to fetch enough to fill the void left by Gaudreau.   Talking about adding forwards is kind of like saying we're not filling that void, and if we're not filling that void then we are going to take a pretty big step back.

[jjgallow]

Karri Aho and Yevor Savikov,

 

Can we give them PTOs or something?

[phoenix66]

8 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

No arguement there lol.

 

but I think it does take you back to rebuild territory pretty quick if you don't go Kadri-stupid.

 

we've replaced Tkachuk, but we haven't replaced Gaudreau.   Without doing that, imho we go at least middle of pack.

 

anyway....it's odd because trading Hannifin does sort of....make us better at defense. lol.

 

all the same I still think we are took week at D to leave a void there.   And Hanifin isn't going to fetch enough to fill the void left by Gaudreau.   Talking about adding forwards is kind of like saying we're not filling that void, and if we're not filling that void then we are going to take a pretty big step back.

I would argue we replaced Gaudreau with Huberdeau.. elite playmaker and line driver ..basically a bigger stronger better Johnny who can also kill penalties ..

It's Tkachuk we haven't replaced .. a PITA skilled forward that scores .. tho we did boost the defense ..  Kadri wouid fit the bill and the center hole .but it's a question now of what the contract wouid look like . He's been waiting awhile, he might just take a shorter term now..