jjgallow Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 6 hours ago, travel_dude said: ..... and last on the list for PP time. ... I just ... Don't think you get it. Like...what is being talked about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 to be blunt, who cares if he isn't a number one stud Dman? There are what, maybe 10-12 of those in the league? Given what the Flames gave up via trade and what they are paying him he doens't need to be. I think we have some very unrealistic expecations if people are going to be upset that Hamilton may not be a #1 stud dman but yet recognize he is a top 3 dman and a very good one at that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 hour ago, cross16 said: to be blunt, who cares if he isn't a number one stud Dman? There are what, maybe 10-12 of those in the league? Given what the Flames gave up via trade and what they are paying him he doens't need to be. I think we have some very unrealistic expecations if people are going to be upset that Hamilton may not be a #1 stud dman but yet recognize he is a top 3 dman and a very good one at that. Hamilton has somethings to work on for sure but I'm glad he is on our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 10 hours ago, jjgallow said: I just ... Don't think you get it. Like...what is being talked about. Who can ever decipher what point you are trying to make. You generally post a bunch of disconnected thoughts, vague references that you can later try to prove a point or negate something you said. Your usual response to posters that ask for specifics is "I already have provided numerous times and don't wish to repeat it". I'm surprised you haven't started this theme again.... Bad Goaltending last year was the result of horrid play by Flames defense. The goalies were victimized last season by fans. The defense still sucks, Hamilton being the worst. Goaltending still sucks, so it must not have been Ramo, Hiller or Ortio's fault. Insult if you want. That's your usual MO. Add a winkey if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 17 hours ago, travel_dude said: I don't think you are really giving him much of a chance. He played under BH for a season, being buried for half a season, and last on the list for PP time. Once he settled into the Flames systems, which were not exactly airtight defensively, he started looking more like a 2nd pairing D-man. Is he a complete player yet? Of course not, he's 23. I don't think you can compare his play to Gio at the same age, because the development paths are/were different. If you can predict what he will be in 5 years, I applaud you. Truth. I too was a bit harsh on Thuggie Dougie last year but adjusting to a new team and coach takes time. Now he's gotta learn an entirely new system again in year 2, I'm willing to cut him some slack. He's a multiple 40pts+ D man and he's a pup at 23. He out scores a lot of our forwards so he's an asset for sure. I can see why some are frustrated with him at times but any team in the league would love this kids services. He has a pretty unique skill set and as he matures he could become that #1 pairing D. It helps to have mentors like Gio and Brodie, we're lucky to have him. He's not my fav D man but he's a really solid asset to have at this stage in his development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 20 hours ago, cross16 said: Correct, but its also a Dman who the coach is famaliar with and a guy he very likely has trust in. I would get the compliant if he was jamming him into the lineup but he isn't. Signing an NHL proven dman for basiclaly league minimum is hardly a head scratcher. I don't like Grossman but its a logical signing. 20 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: Its not a head scratcher, the grossman signing takes us right to the cap or 8000$ away from it I wanna say. This means when smid gets put on LTIR, if he does we get the full bonus of it where as if we didnt have the grossman signing we wouldnt get the full bonus of LTIR. There was an article on flames nation about it. Didn't know about the LTIR bonus factor however I would have much rather signed Nakladal over Grossman who now sits as a spectator, We could have likely signed Nak to a similar contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 24 minutes ago, rickross said: Didn't know about the LTIR bonus factor however I would have much rather signed Nakladal over Grossman who now sits as a spectator, We could have likely signed Nak to a similar contract As much as I was not in favor of signing Grossman, for now at least, he is on the roster... So if he could get it into his head that he is not a play maker, and work on making the safe play instead of the risky pass, he could be still be an asset for clearing the front of the net... Particularly against the teams that have a big body player that makes a habit of parking on the edge of the crease... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Carty said: As much as I was not in favor of signing Grossman, for now at least, he is on the roster... So if he could get it into his head that he is not a play maker, and work on making the safe play instead of the risky pass, he could be still be an asset for clearing the front of the net... Particularly against the teams that have a big body player that makes a habit of parking on the edge of the crease... I missed the game last night, how did Jokipakka and Kulak look ? Grossmann could have that purpose and maybe that is management's thinking. I just wish BT could deal Wideman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 9 minutes ago, MAC331 said: I missed the game last night, how did Jokipakka and Kulak look ? Grossmann could have that purpose and maybe that is management's thinking. I just wish BT could deal Wideman. Kulak is growing on me(I should probably get that checked out ha!) he doesn't try to overdo his playmaking, he's been pretty steady back there. J Pak cost us a goal as he was slightly out of position and didn't check the stick on his man setting up a point blank 1 timer on the PK. I still like how he's played thus far. Were stuck with Wides this year, if he can reclaim some of offensive ability and improve his shot accuracy and moreso tighten up his D play then he could find a consistent roster spot. Until then I think J Pak and Kulak have displayed better pace and have been more effective in their end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 hour ago, rickross said: Didn't know about the LTIR bonus factor however I would have much rather signed Nakladal over Grossman who now sits as a spectator, We could have likely signed Nak to a similar contract Yes but Nak would have given them 4 RH shot dmen and Brodie typically plays the right side so they'd have 5 Right side dmen. Would have been a pretty severly unbalanced D core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 15 minutes ago, cross16 said: Yes but Nak would have given them 4 RH shot dmen and Brodie typically plays the right side so they'd have 5 Right side dmen. Would have been a pretty severly unbalanced D core. Which would have been a perfect scenario! We could then offload Wideman as a RH shot to Peter Chia Pet for McDavid in return. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Word is that Treliving tried throughout the summer to trade Wideman, and couldn't... re: Unloading Wideman: Maybe Treliving could be inspired by some of the trades that have been made in baseball... Kerry Ligtenberg for 24 balls and 24 bats... Lefty Grove for a fence... Tim Fortugno for a bag of balls and $2500... Cy Young for a suit and $300... Keith Comstock for a bag of balls... John Odum for a bag of bats... Ken Krahenbul for 10 lbs of catfish... Dave Winfield for dinner... Johnny Jones for a turkey... Babe Ruth for the Broadway musical "No No Nanette"... So anything is possible with some creativity Treliving... Make it happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 42 minutes ago, Carty said: So anything is possible with some creativity Treliving... Make it happen... Sounds mafia-ish Carty. "Bre-X that dude"; "Make him an offer he can't refuse". Wideman has played very poorly since last season. He has been slow and made odd decisions on the ice. Prior to last season, I thought he was pretty good. He was very skilled at getting point shots to the net, and many went in or caused juicy rebounds. I don't understand how a guy can come in and look pretty good, only to tank so badly. Did he just get to the point where hockey became old hat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Does Wideman stay in the pressbox tomorrow? I doubt they would do 3 in a row... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Does Wideman stay in the pressbox tomorrow? I doubt they would do 3 in a row... Practice lines had him and Grossmann as the 4th pair. I think they are giving Kulak an extended look to see what they have, and he hasn't looked out of place, he hasn't been outstanding, but he has been solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Good time for Kulak to be the best option and win that seat outright and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 8 hours ago, travel_dude said: Insult if you want. That's your usual MO. Add a winkey if you like. I'm sorry. Perhaps I posted inappropriately out of frustration, that was uncalled for. What I mean to say is that your comments regarding Wideman's PP time may not be entirely relevant to the stated concerns about him on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 The nice thing about a new coach sometimes is he has no ties or allegiance to the current player. I could see maybe Hartley have a problem sitting wideman for 3 in a row (and that is NOT a shot at Hartley) but Gulutzan has no reason to put wideman back in the lineup. D played well last night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 20 hours ago, conundrumed said: Does Wideman stay in the pressbox tomorrow? I doubt they would do 3 in a row... Looks like Wideman sits again tonight... Unfortunately he's not sitting on an airplane after a trade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 16 minutes ago, Carty said: Looks like Wideman sits again tonight... Unfortunately he's not sitting on an airplane after a trade... Leddy is injured. Perhaps we could interest them is a lightly used Wideman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Think Grossman is the plan for Anaheim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 We allowed the most goals against last season and we blamed it on goaltending and coaching. We've changed both and yet, we are still on pace to have the most goals against this season. Is it time to look at the D? Do we have to take a serious look at trading Brodie for Trouba to get Trouba's shut down talents? We don't have a legit shut down D in the top 4, assuming Trouba is even this elite shut down D we think he is. All 3 of Giordano, Brodie, and Hamilton are hybrid Dmen who excel more at a two-way game than excel defensively. Jokipakka is not a stud shut down guy. Engellend is not top 4 material. What do we think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 9 hours ago, The_People1 said: We allowed the most goals against last season and we blamed it on goaltending and coaching. We've changed both and yet, we are still on pace to have the most goals against this season. Is it time to look at the D? Do we have to take a serious look at trading Brodie for Trouba to get Trouba's shut down talents? We don't have a legit shut down D in the top 4, assuming Trouba is even this elite shut down D we think he is. All 3 of Giordano, Brodie, and Hamilton are hybrid Dmen who excel more at a two-way game than excel defensively. Jokipakka is not a stud shut down guy. Engellend is not top 4 material. What do we think? What is the definition of this true "shut down" defenseman you speak of ? the game has changed and defensemen only have so many mechanisms they can use to defend the front of your net anymore. Today they have to angle offensive players away from the net, clear away the puck fast to the boards and know when to get back and set up to do steps 1 and 2. I think we actually one more defensemen like the ones we have in Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton, Jokipakka and Kulak. Quickness and smarts are the new mantra for defensemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 11 hours ago, The_People1 said: We allowed the most goals against last season and we blamed it on goaltending and coaching. We've changed both and yet, we are still on pace to have the most goals against this season. Is it time to look at the D? Do we have to take a serious look at trading Brodie for Trouba to get Trouba's shut down talents? We don't have a legit shut down D in the top 4, assuming Trouba is even this elite shut down D we think he is. All 3 of Giordano, Brodie, and Hamilton are hybrid Dmen who excel more at a two-way game than excel defensively. Jokipakka is not a stud shut down guy. Engellend is not top 4 material. What do we think? I don't' agree with the notion the Flames lack a "shutdown" dman. Did the Pens have one? Do the Blackhawks really have one? IMO Brodie and Gio are as good a shutdown pairing you will find, and Brodie is IMO a shutdown dman. I think the idea of a Robyn Regher like Shutdown dman is dead in this league. That being said, the Flames lack Depth and D and while I think they have a very good top 3, their bottom 3 isn't that great. That isn't new and isn't a secret. I think Jokipakka is a decent dman but I dont' think he is a top 4 and right now you are playing him in a role he isn't suited for IMO. Doesn't help that you have have paired him with a still learning Hamilton. Then when your depth is guys like Grossman, Kulak and Wideman, that just isn't very good. Most of the mistakes I'm seeing so far from the D are being made by their depth, not guys like Brodie/Gio etc. Hamilton is still making errors but I also think the Flames havn't done him any favors by pairing him with a good solid veteran.They need to improve their depth but unfortunately the salary cap and carrying someone like Wideman really prohibited that in the offseason. I think this season/coming offseason a priority is going to be to find a LH shot top 4 dman they can pair with Hamilton. I know they wanted Hamhuis, but missed out on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 8 minutes ago, cross16 said: I don't' agree with the notion the Flames lack a "shutdown" dman. Did the Pens have one? Do the Blackhawks really have one? IMO Brodie and Gio are as good a shutdown pairing you will find, and Brodie is IMO a shutdown dman. I think the idea of a Robyn Regher like Shutdown dman is dead in this league. That being said, the Flames lack Depth and D and while I think they have a very good top 3, their bottom 3 isn't that great. That isn't new and isn't a secret. I think Jokipakka is a decent dman but I dont' think he is a top 4 and right now you are playing him in a role he isn't suited for IMO. Doesn't help that you have have paired him with a still learning Hamilton. Then when your depth is guys like Grossman, Kulak and Wideman, that just isn't very good. Most of the mistakes I'm seeing so far from the D are being made by their depth, not guys like Brodie/Gio etc. Hamilton is still making errors but I also think the Flames havn't done him any favors by pairing him with a good solid veteran.They need to improve their depth but unfortunately the salary cap and carrying someone like Wideman really prohibited that in the offseason. I think this season/coming offseason a priority is going to be to find a LH shot top 4 dman they can pair with Hamilton. I know they wanted Hamhuis, but missed out on him. Agree with what you say. Engelland is as close to a Regher as you can get, but isn't as effective as Brodie and Gio. His lack of speed makes him vulnerable to speedy teams. Yokipakka is a fine 3rd pair guy, and Kulak s close to that. What is left is not top 4, except Hamilton. Wideman or Engelland in the top 4 scares me. Do you want Brodie to have to cover Engelland both offensively and getting back on a transition play? I would love to have another top 4 LD to balance it out. Not suggesting Russell would be any better. But we can't argue that Wideman is that calibre either. He's lost a step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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