Flames Defense

[Cowtownguy]

I just wanted to say that there are only 3.62 hours remaining on Wideman's contract.

[Cowtownguy]

If we need to dump a defenceman, something tells me Montreal will take almost any we have to offer. I wonder if they have any at this point.

[phoenix66]

I like this kid already

.. likely a big reason we made some room in Stockon ,   be interesting to see how he progresses 

 

 

[rickross]

I think we should temper our expectations for our D core until we actually see them play at an elite level. All this pre-hype seems like the perfect setup for disappointment. There's always the chance Hamonic doesn't live up to his billing or he doesn't pair well with Brodie at all, let alone adjust to the Western conference. Maybe Gio-Hamonic and Brodie-Hamilton turn out to be the better pairings? Who knows!? I just don't like the idea of our D being crowned before they've even hit the ice, I get the excitement about the potential but I recall when we had J-Bo, Phaneuf, Regehr and a young Gio and they never did quite live up to their elite expectations. 

 

GG should make good with all the high talent on the blue line, and hopefully the forward group can pitch in enough to keep some of the pressure off the D and still create offence. This year they need to be prepared for the start of the season...there'd be nothing worse than to see our highly touted D get embarrassed  on opening night by McMoney and Co.!

[AlbertaBoy12]

13 hours ago, rickross said:

I think we should temper our expectations for our D core until we actually see them play at an elite level. All this pre-hype seems like the perfect setup for disappointment. There's always the chance Hamonic doesn't live up to his billing or he doesn't pair well with Brodie at all, let alone adjust to the Western conference. Maybe Gio-Hamonic and Brodie-Hamilton turn out to be the better pairings? Who knows!? I just don't like the idea of our D being crowned before they've even hit the ice, I get the excitement about the potential but I recall when we had J-Bo, Phaneuf, Regehr and a young Gio and they never did quite live up to their elite expectations. 

 

GG should make good with all the high talent on the blue line, and hopefully the forward group can pitch in enough to keep some of the pressure off the D and still create offence. This year they need to be prepared for the start of the season...there'd be nothing worse than to see our highly touted D get embarrassed  on opening night by McMoney and Co.!

I view hamonic as a similar player to larsson, and he had no problems adjusting to the western conference. I think hamonic is a little less physical then larsson but thats ok he doesnt need to be that presence on the back end. I mean you can temper expectations all you want but the additions of hamonic and stone, plus I would assume on kulak, make this D corp better. I think the problem with the previous D corp was not the players, but they didnt mesh well together, the system was much different under sutter, and our forward group was terrible in terms of centers. Phaneuf and Jbo also has their supposed clashing with reference to both being top D men, it just wasent a good situation. 

 

Its totally possible we may see different pairings, ie brodie with hamilton or who knows hammy with hamonic, does hammy squared work for that?  Who knows at this point but the sum of the parts is much better the previous group, and the team is much different then before. Its important to have forwards that can help down low, and get the puck out of the zone. I dont think its possible for this D corp to be any worse then very good.

[kehatch]

In: Hamonic, Stone, Kulak

Out: Wideman, Engelland, Jokipakka 

 

That is an upgrade no matter how you slice it. Sure we haven't proven we have one of the top D units yet, but there is plenty of reason to be optimistic. 

[The_People1]

13 hours ago, rickross said:

 I recall when we had J-Bo, Phaneuf, Regehr and a young Gio and they never did quite live up to their elite expectations. 

 

Who would of thunk that forcing 4 LHS LD together wouldn't produce optimal results?  As much as there's merits to dampen expectations based on this example, I feel this example better serves the LD/RD argument.

 

This time around, we have 2 LHS 2 RHS and Brodie can switch sides effectively.  That, plus Stone as insurance if Hamonic falters.  I just can't see how our D doesn't live up to expectations.

 

Oh, and Smith in G is going to help make our D look better.  Good goalies always do that.

 

 

[conundrumed]

23 minutes ago, kehatch said:

In: Hamonic, Stone, Kulak

Out: Wideman, Engelland, Jokipakka 

 

That is an upgrade no matter how you slice it. Sure we haven't proven we have one of the top D units yet, but there is plenty of reason to be optimistic. 

+1

dems da straight goods lol.

[travel_dude]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

Who would of thunk that forcing 4 LHS LD together wouldn't produce optimal results?  As much as there's merits to dampen expectations based on this example, I feel this example better serves the LD/RD argument.

 

This time around, we have 2 LHS 2 RHS and Brodie can switch sides effectively.  That, plus Stone as insurance if Hamonic falters.  I just can't see how our D doesn't live up to expectations.

 

Oh, and Smith in G is going to help make our D look better.  Good goalies always do that.

 

 

 

I think Sarich was the #4 at the time, but whatever.  I doubt there was enough patience to play out the season with those guys all on the same team, and if you believe rumors Phaneuf had to go anyway.

 

Stone is there to be an upgrade on the 3rd pair.  That is wonderful.  Hamonic had one bad season in his career, so I don't think we need to worry about him.

[MAC331]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think Sarich was the #4 at the time, but whatever.  I doubt there was enough patience to play out the season with those guys all on the same team, and if you believe rumors Phaneuf had to go anyway.

 

Stone is there to be an upgrade on the 3rd pair.  That is wonderful.  Hamonic had one bad season in his career, so I don't think we need to worry about him.

I think our defense is set up as good as it has been for quite awhile.

[Flyerfan52]

35 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Who would of thunk that forcing 4 LHS LD together wouldn't produce optimal results?  As much as there's merits to dampen expectations based on this example, I feel this example better serves the LD/RD argument.

 

This time around, we have 2 LHS 2 RHS and Brodie can switch sides effectively.  That, plus Stone as insurance if Hamonic falters.  I just can't see how our D doesn't live up to expectations.

 

Oh, and Smith in G is going to help make our D look better.  Good goalies always do that.

 

 

He's the last 1 I worry about faltering. Last year was a stress filled 1 for him due to health concerns in his immediate family. We've cut other players slack under similar circumstances.

[Flyerfan52]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I view hamonic as a similar player to larsson, and he had no problems adjusting to the western conference. I think hamonic is a little less physical then larsson but thats ok he doesnt need to be that presence on the back end. I mean you can temper expectations all you want but the additions of hamonic and stone, plus I would assume on kulak, make this D corp better. I think the problem with the previous D corp was not the players, but they didnt mesh well together, the system was much different under sutter, and our forward group was terrible in terms of centers. Phaneuf and Jbo also has their supposed clashing with reference to both being top D men, it just wasent a good situation. 

 

Its totally possible we may see different pairings, ie brodie with hamilton or who knows hammy with hamonic, does hammy squared work for that?  Who knows at this point but the sum of the parts is much better the previous group, and the team is much different then before. Its important to have forwards that can help down low, and get the puck out of the zone. I dont think its possible for this D corp to be any worse then very good.

Then you'll be surprised.

[conundrumed]

Love the sig ff, oldskool, lol.

 

I'm almost as interested to see the Isles D without Hamonic as I am the Flames with.

If I were Garth Snow, I'd have said no.

That's my thinking. I get, say, 24th oa. and 2 55ths.

That might sound like 3 shots, but the dice is loaded.

If we tank, Snow gambled and won. But he's got the low odds.

Conversely, odds aren't great he gets the return for Hamonic.

Whom I believe clearly makes us better, BT obviously kept on top of Hamonic wanting to go West.

When the news broke, I'm sure we were all stunned.

That's very, very impressive managing imo. "Tireless" comes to mind.

Hamonic news had dissipated. Guessing BT never let it go.

He makes us a lot better, he is at worst a good 3 that brings the kinda D we lack.

Pretty sure everyone's jaw dropped to "woah Calgary holy um, peaches"?

Hamonic would have been sought after by many teams, bang, calgary.

Sweet. Solid add. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Love the sig ff, oldskool, lol.

 

I'm almost as interested to see the Isles D without Hamonic as I am the Flames with.

If I were Garth Snow, I'd have said no.

That's my thinking. I get, say, 24th oa. and 2 55ths.

That might sound like 3 shots, but the dice is loaded.

If we tank, Snow gambled and won. But he's got the low odds.

Conversely, odds aren't great he gets the return for Hamonic.

Whom I believe clearly makes us better, BT obviously kept on top of Hamonic wanting to go West.

When the news broke, I'm sure we were all stunned.

That's very, very impressive managing imo. "Tireless" comes to mind.

Hamonic news had dissipated. Guessing BT never let it go.

He makes us a lot better, he is at worst a good 3 that brings the kinda D we lack.

Pretty sure everyone's jaw dropped to "woah Calgary holy um, peaches"?

Hamonic would have been sought after by many teams, bang, calgary.

Sweet. Solid add. 

 

The isle are probably praying Pulock can step into the top 3 with Boychuk and Leddy.  It's otherwise a sad group of D.  Halak and Greiss will have their work cut out for them next season.

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

The isle are probably praying Pulock can step into the top 3 with Boychuk and Leddy.  It's otherwise a sad group of D.  Halak and Greiss will have their work cut out for them next season.

+1

They've also got De Haan to pick up the slack..

Not what I'd do, but seeing as it is such, Rasmus for Ho-Sang sounds fair, lol.

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

+1

They've also got De Haan to pick up the slack..

Not what I'd do, but seeing as it is such, Rasmus for Ho-Sang sounds fair, lol.

 

 

Is like to get Barzal actually.  That will bring back one guy from the Hamilton deal.

[rickross]

8 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I view hamonic as a similar player to larsson, and he had no problems adjusting to the western conference. I think hamonic is a little less physical then larsson but thats ok he doesnt need to be that presence on the back end. I mean you can temper expectations all you want but the additions of hamonic and stone, plus I would assume on kulak, make this D corp better. I think the problem with the previous D corp was not the players, but they didnt mesh well together, the system was much different under sutter, and our forward group was terrible in terms of centers. Phaneuf and Jbo also has their supposed clashing with reference to both being top D men, it just wasent a good situation. 

 

Its totally possible we may see different pairings, ie brodie with hamilton or who knows hammy with hamonic, does hammy squared work for that?  Who knows at this point but the sum of the parts is much better the previous group, and the team is much different then before. Its important to have forwards that can help down low, and get the puck out of the zone. I dont think its possible for this D corp to be any worse then very good.

 

7 hours ago, kehatch said:

In: Hamonic, Stone, Kulak

Out: Wideman, Engelland, Jokipakka 

 

That is an upgrade no matter how you slice it. Sure we haven't proven we have one of the top D units yet, but there is plenty of reason to be optimistic. 

Don't get me wrong I'm not downplaying their potential in any way, just saying it's too early to claim them as an elite unit before they've played a game. I'm just as hyped about the resigning and acquisition as everyone else, I'm just saying that all the hype is based off how this roster looks on paper. Yes we have some of the top D men in the league there's no denying that, we just need to see the on paper hype translate onto the ice first. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

7 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Then you'll be surprised.

ummm are you saying hamonic is more physical then larsson?

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

ummm are you saying hamonic is more physical then larsson?

Similar players. Both play a very simple "get the puck out" game that Oilers fans now love, and we're about to.

Larsson will always go body first into a battle, that's why he's the hit leader. Yet there is never that "devastating" hit like Reggie on Hemsky *ahh, memories*....

Last season was a real misnomer for Hamonic's career. It's easy to reflect on the W. Canada revelation timeline and become suspicious of all that went on afterwards.

He plays a challenge the puck carrier game like Larsson, just more reticent about over-committing and all around a safer game imho.

Where Larsson takes himself out of the play one-on-one against the boards too often, Hamonic doesn't.

He can be just as physical or more than Larsson, he just doesn't constantly play that way like Larsson does.

I like Larsson and always have, but he over commits, all of the time to taking the body. You can throw a decoy at him just to tie him up in the corner to test their forwards on D.

Our past D was brought up earlier. Reggie and Phaneuf and to a lesser degree Sarich....I hated them a lot when they blatantly over-committed to make the big hit.

And it was constant.

Hamonic just plays D, plain and simple. If he HAS to be physical, he will. If he HAS to be calm, he will.

Unlike Larsson also, he doesn't have to come here as a #2 minimum, #4.

Not bad for a guy who has worn a letter on a good team.

We wanted a defencive dman, BT went out and got one of the best.

Good for the Flames.

Burke said off the hop, "if we are paying you, you have obligations to pay back in our communities, that is non-negotiable".

This is a great signing for all involved.

A poster on here spoke of acquiring Larsson before "the trade" and it wasn't well received.

To him, and I won't mention The People by name, err, umm, where was I?

A year and a bit later, we have Hamonic, and god I can't wait.

Our O will get better just by practicing against our D...

 

 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Similar players. Both play a very simple "get the puck out" game that Oilers fans now love, and we're about to.

Larsson will always go body first into a battle, that's why he's the hit leader. Yet there is never that "devastating" hit like Reggie on Hemsky *ahh, memories*....

Last season was a real misnomer for Hamonic's career. It's easy to reflect on the W. Canada revelation timeline and become suspicious of all that went on afterwards.

He plays a challenge the puck carrier game like Larsson, just more reticent about over-committing and all around a safer game imho.

Where Larsson takes himself out of the play one-on-one against the boards too often, Hamonic doesn't.

He can be just as physical or more than Larsson, he just doesn't constantly play that way like Larsson does.

I like Larsson and always have, but he over commits, all of the time to taking the body. You can throw a decoy at him just to tie him up in the corner to test their forwards on D.

Our past D was brought up earlier. Reggie and Phaneuf and to a lesser degree Sarich....I hated them a lot when they blatantly over-committed to make the big hit.

And it was constant.

Hamonic just plays D, plain and simple. If he HAS to be physical, he will. If he HAS to be calm, he will.

Unlike Larsson also, he doesn't have to come here as a #2 minimum, #4.

Not bad for a guy who has worn a letter on a good team.

We wanted a defencive dman, BT went out and got one of the best.

Good for the Flames.

Burke said off the hop, "if we are paying you, you have obligations to pay back in our communities, that is non-negotiable".

This is a great signing for all involved.

A poster on here spoke of acquiring Larsson before "the trade" and it wasn't well received.

To him, and I won't mention The People by name, err, umm, where was I?

A year and a bit later, we have Hamonic, and god I can't wait.

Our O will get better just by practicing against our D...

 

 

 

Good summary of the two players.  

 

I think a lot of people would have liked to have Larsson, as a young guy with potential.  Had we dealt a 1st and 2 2nds for him, there would have been more complaining, though.  The Oilers paid big for potential, but as you say, also paid for a top 2.  They also paid almost as much for a player that Vegas took for nothing.  We have paid for two top 4 players with nothing more than a handful of draft picks.  And one of them is already a top 2.  We didn't have to send away our top scoring LW to do it. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Similar players. Both play a very simple "get the puck out" game that Oilers fans now love, and we're about to.

Larsson will always go body first into a battle, that's why he's the hit leader. Yet there is never that "devastating" hit like Reggie on Hemsky *ahh, memories*....

Last season was a real misnomer for Hamonic's career. It's easy to reflect on the W. Canada revelation timeline and become suspicious of all that went on afterwards.

He plays a challenge the puck carrier game like Larsson, just more reticent about over-committing and all around a safer game imho.

Where Larsson takes himself out of the play one-on-one against the boards too often, Hamonic doesn't.

He can be just as physical or more than Larsson, he just doesn't constantly play that way like Larsson does.

I like Larsson and always have, but he over commits, all of the time to taking the body. You can throw a decoy at him just to tie him up in the corner to test their forwards on D.

Our past D was brought up earlier. Reggie and Phaneuf and to a lesser degree Sarich....I hated them a lot when they blatantly over-committed to make the big hit.

And it was constant.

Hamonic just plays D, plain and simple. If he HAS to be physical, he will. If he HAS to be calm, he will.

Unlike Larsson also, he doesn't have to come here as a #2 minimum, #4.

Not bad for a guy who has worn a letter on a good team.

We wanted a defencive dman, BT went out and got one of the best.

Good for the Flames.

Burke said off the hop, "if we are paying you, you have obligations to pay back in our communities, that is non-negotiable".

This is a great signing for all involved.

A poster on here spoke of acquiring Larsson before "the trade" and it wasn't well received.

To him, and I won't mention The People by name, err, umm, where was I?

A year and a bit later, we have Hamonic, and god I can't wait.

Our O will get better just by practicing against our D...

 

 

I like your summary. I was confused by Flyerfans comment because larsson has always seemed like the more physical player to me. But its not necessarily a good thing to be more physical, it can lead to bad things. Thanks for the summary conundrumed.

[Flyerfan52]

17 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Love the sig ff, oldskool, lol.

 

I'm almost as interested to see the Isles D without Hamonic as I am the Flames with.

If I were Garth Snow, I'd have said no.

That's my thinking. I get, say, 24th oa. and 2 55ths.

That might sound like 3 shots, but the dice is loaded.

If we tank, Snow gambled and won. But he's got the low odds.

Conversely, odds aren't great he gets the return for Hamonic.

Whom I believe clearly makes us better, BT obviously kept on top of Hamonic wanting to go West.

When the news broke, I'm sure we were all stunned.

That's very, very impressive managing imo. "Tireless" comes to mind.

Hamonic news had dissipated. Guessing BT never let it go.

He makes us a lot better, he is at worst a good 3 that brings the kinda D we lack.

Pretty sure everyone's jaw dropped to "woah Calgary holy um, peaches"?

Hamonic would have been sought after by many teams, bang, calgary.

Sweet. Solid add. 

Thanks. Somehow my old sig disappeared so I hunted around a bit & found this. LCB was always my favorite line.

 

Great explanation of Hamonic vs. Larsson. You put it better than I'd have done. As you can tell from my posts I consider the trade for Hamonic the best move any GM made over the off season.

[MAC331]

Just now, Flyerfan52 said:

Thanks. Somehow my old sig disappeared so I hunted around a bit & found this. LCB was always my favorite line.

 

Great explanation of Hamonic vs. Larsson. You put it better than I'd have done. As you can tell from my posts I consider the trade for Hamonic the best move any GM made over the off season.

I also like that BT double downed and signed Stone even at the higher cost involved. Having that extra piece of experience to fall back on could be huge in a few ways, covering off injuries and giving our 6 and 7th D a solid partner.

[The_People1]

I'm very excited to see what Hamonic and a full year of Stone can bring to this team.  We should be much improved against the cycle game and on the PK.  Especially the Brodie-Wideman pair last year.  They were the weakest link defensively.  Get stuck in our own zone all the time and Brodie was among the league leaders in minus.

 

All this Hamonic hype, don't forget Stone showed us an elite slap shot from the point.  He could man the point on the PP and give us a cannon of a shot, something Brodie and Hamilton couldn't give us.

 

On the PP, we may see Brodie - Stone.  On the PK, we can sit Brodie and Hamilton on the bench.  I would run with Hamonic and Stone on the RD on the PK.

[The_Tribal Chief]

Im Excited To see This Team Period The Transactions we have made not To massive and the signings we didnt sign right to the cap either so we also have room