Official Sam Bennett Discussion Thread

[phoenix66]

3 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

GG was here and had little effect on Sven. GG was in charge of D when he was with Canucks is my understanding...

Sven was traded to VAN under Hartley . GG had him in Van as Asst coach.. I'll try to find the link but i recall reading he credited GG with working with him , possibly on his defensive play (which BH dog housed him for)

 

but again you're always gonna have those players .. look at Engelland last year too

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

That tells me we aren’t deep enough.

It is turning out that way only because BT missed with bringing Brouwer and this year Versteeg seems half committed. Jagr is good to have here but was always going to be limited production. I just think we are right now we are not firing on all cylinders yet either.

[JA_Boomer]

Okay what's going on here. Highest Flames draft pick EVER. Was Central Scouting #1 ranked North American skater in his draft year and killed it in junior. Looks lights out every pre-season and has played well during his two playoff series. First year was very good. The past two seasons have been worse than forgettable. He's no longer player center, has decent line-mates, is getting decent minutes and PP time. Last year I thought that Bennett was more effected by confidence than any player I've seen, this year I'm not so sure it's that simple.

 

I really want this player to flourish as a Calgary Flame, but is there a problem here, is it ever going to click?

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, JA_Boomer said:

Okay what's going on here. Highest Flames draft pick EVER. Was Central Scouting #1 ranked North American skater in his draft year and killed it in junior. Looks lights out every pre-season and has played well during his two playoff series. First year was very good. The past two seasons have been worse than forgettable. He's no longer player center, has decent line-mates, is getting decent minutes and PP time. Last year I thought that Bennett was more effected by confidence than any player I've seen, this year I'm not so sure it's that simple.

 

I really want this player to flourish as a Calgary Flame, but is there a problem here, is it ever going to click?

 

I personally feel he's being used on the wrong line.  He should be used on Backlund's LW.  Tkachuk is the kind of player that Janko and Jagr could benefit from.  Much better passer, strong on the puck, gritty, has the opposition focusing on him.  Bennett with Backlund takes the onus of scoring and turns it into playing a more defensive structure.  

 

I think you have to get the player into playing his strengths before you can expect the goal scoring part to be consistent.  It has to work though.  He has to replace Tkachuk's possession and board skills.  

[MAC331]

52 minutes ago, JA_Boomer said:

Okay what's going on here. Highest Flames draft pick EVER. Was Central Scouting #1 ranked North American skater in his draft year and killed it in junior. Looks lights out every pre-season and has played well during his two playoff series. First year was very good. The past two seasons have been worse than forgettable. He's no longer player center, has decent line-mates, is getting decent minutes and PP time. Last year I thought that Bennett was more effected by confidence than any player I've seen, this year I'm not so sure it's that simple.

 

I really want this player to flourish as a Calgary Flame, but is there a problem here, is it ever going to click?

Let the kid play and judge him at the end of the season. He just moved to a different position joining all new line mates (again) and being judge on a small sample size. It doesn't matter what he did in Junior, all that did is get him here, the NHL is a whole different game.

[Flyerfan52]

Much as I was happy to be able to draft Bennett it seems every year I wonder what happened to the player I thought we were getting.

Living in Wpg. I watch a lot of Jets games & see Elhers who was taken 5 spots after in 2014  succeeding on either the 1st or 2nd line. This year I see Connor who was taken @ #17 in 2015 doing very well on the 1st line after spending most of 1 year in the minors & starting this 1 in the AHL until an injury opened a spot. In both cases Wpg. knew that these weren't going to be grinders that could work their way up from the depth lines.

 

Neither Monahan nor Gaudreau got the skimpy minutes SB got as both were seen as top 6 until proven different. Is it lack of faith by coachs/management or is Sam just showing he'll be a depth winger @ best?  Did Calgary mess up his developement & limit what he'll be or would both he & the organizartion be best served by trading him while GMs still think he can become what he was drafted to be?

 

I read small sample size in some posts. 182 games is a fair sample so either we can look @ him as a fairly average player that will be lucky to have a long career or trade him while worth something & give him the chance to grow elsewhere. He's technically in his 4th year in a league where average players last 6-7 years.

[redfire11]

8 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Much as I was happy to be able to draft Bennett it seems every year I wonder what happened to the player I thought we were getting.

Living in Wpg. I watch a lot of Jets games & see Elhers who was taken 5 spots after in 2014  succeeding on either the 1st or 2nd line. This year I see Connor who was taken @ #17 in 2015 doing very well on the 1st line after spending most of 1 year in the minors & starting this 1 in the AHL until an injury opened a spot. In both cases Wpg. knew that these weren't going to be grinders that could work their way up from the depth lines.

 

Neither Monahan nor Gaudreau got the skimpy minutes SB got as both were seen as top 6 until proven different. Is it lack of faith by coachs/management or is Sam just showing he'll be a depth winger @ best?  Did Calgary mess up his developement & limit what he'll be or would both he & the organizartion be best served by trading him while GMs still think he can become what he was drafted to be?

 

I read small sample size in some posts. 182 games is a fair sample so either we can look @ him as a fairly average player that will be lucky to have a long career or trade him while worth something & give him the chance to grow elsewhere. He's technically in his 4th year in a league where average players last 6-7 years.

I think the screw up for Bennett was not leaving him on the Backlund / Frolik line.

[MAC331]

22 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Much as I was happy to be able to draft Bennett it seems every year I wonder what happened to the player I thought we were getting.

Living in Wpg. I watch a lot of Jets games & see Elhers who was taken 5 spots after in 2014  succeeding on either the 1st or 2nd line. This year I see Connor who was taken @ #17 in 2015 doing very well on the 1st line after spending most of 1 year in the minors & starting this 1 in the AHL until an injury opened a spot. In both cases Wpg. knew that these weren't going to be grinders that could work their way up from the depth lines.

 

Neither Monahan nor Gaudreau got the skimpy minutes SB got as both were seen as top 6 until proven different. Is it lack of faith by coachs/management or is Sam just showing he'll be a depth winger @ best?  Did Calgary mess up his developement & limit what he'll be or would both he & the organizartion be best served by trading him while GMs still think he can become what he was drafted to be?

 

I read small sample size in some posts. 182 games is a fair sample so either we can look @ him as a fairly average player that will be lucky to have a long career or trade him while worth something & give him the chance to grow elsewhere. He's technically in his 4th year in a league where average players last 6-7 years.

Just my thoughts but I place the lack of progress of Bennett squarely with mismanagement of the player. In a few ways Bennett became an after thought and not any kind of priority. First all the emphasis was with Gaudreau and Monahan building them into something special. Then Backlund and Frolik had their own success all the while the management held onto Bennett being a C which left him 3rd line. Tkachuk comes in and he then gets all the attention (not complaining) and that line has its own success. This again leaves Bennett with the also rans to work with on his line and it struggles. It seems the harder he tries personally the worse he looks trying and now the team wants Jankowski to play with top 9 minutes so Bennett gets pushed out to LW. I feel for Bennett however things have a way of working out because I think LW is where he belongs.

I wouldn't trade him now, let him settle in and let's see what becomes of him as a LWer, we may all be pleasantly surprised.

[ABC923]

Bennett has a career low shooting percentage this season, about a fourth of his usual rate.  He's getting chances now (8 in the last 2 games I think), and most nights that whole line looks pretty decent.  Just ready for a breakout I say.

[The_People1]

If we can get Marner, then,

 

Tkachuk - Bennett - Marner

 

Sandwich Bennett between two guys who have proven to work well together in the past.  

[MAC331]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

If we can get Marner, then,

 

Tkachuk - Bennett - Marner

 

Sandwich Bennett between two guys who have proven to work well together in the past.  

That would be sweet, how do we get Marner ? Trade them Brodie for Marner, he has played the RSD the Leafs are seeking.

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Much as I was happy to be able to draft Bennett it seems every year I wonder what happened to the player I thought we were getting.

Living in Wpg. I watch a lot of Jets games & see Elhers who was taken 5 spots after in 2014  succeeding on either the 1st or 2nd line. This year I see Connor who was taken @ #17 in 2015 doing very well on the 1st line after spending most of 1 year in the minors & starting this 1 in the AHL until an injury opened a spot. In both cases Wpg. knew that these weren't going to be grinders that could work their way up from the depth lines.

 

Neither Monahan nor Gaudreau got the skimpy minutes SB got as both were seen as top 6 until proven different. Is it lack of faith by coachs/management or is Sam just showing he'll be a depth winger @ best?  Did Calgary mess up his developement & limit what he'll be or would both he & the organizartion be best served by trading him while GMs still think he can become what he was drafted to be?

 

I read small sample size in some posts. 182 games is a fair sample so either we can look @ him as a fairly average player that will be lucky to have a long career or trade him while worth something & give him the chance to grow elsewhere. He's technically in his 4th year in a league where average players last 6-7 years.

 

Monahan started on the 3rd line and worked his way up, the thing though is that he didn't have as many quality centers to push through as Bennett.

 

I think the biggest mistake with Bennett is that they wasted a year forcing him to be something he isn't, a center. The next issue is that we have better players than him at both LW and C. I think all of Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan and Backlund are all better players than Bennett. 

 

Bennett might have been our highest draft pick ever, but that was in a pretty weak draft.  I was excited when he was drafted, and I have been hopeful since he was drafted that he would show the ability he had been drafted so high for, but I haven't seen it. He shows glimpses, but not nearly often enough or consistent enough to be considered a top 6 player. 

 

I don't see much of a failure from either side, I just don't think he is as good as we hoped, and we just drafted the wrong player.

[The_People1]

12 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

That would be sweet, how do we get Marner ? Trade them Brodie for Marner, he has played the RSD the Leafs are seeking.

 

Ironically, Bennett + Hamonic. (I'd do it)

 

Tkachuk - Jankowski - Marner sounds even better.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Much as I was happy to be able to draft Bennett it seems every year I wonder what happened to the player I thought we were getting.

Living in Wpg. I watch a lot of Jets games & see Elhers who was taken 5 spots after in 2014  succeeding on either the 1st or 2nd line. This year I see Connor who was taken @ #17 in 2015 doing very well on the 1st line after spending most of 1 year in the minors & starting this 1 in the AHL until an injury opened a spot. In both cases Wpg. knew that these weren't going to be grinders that could work their way up from the depth lines.

 

Neither Monahan nor Gaudreau got the skimpy minutes SB got as both were seen as top 6 until proven different. Is it lack of faith by coachs/management or is Sam just showing he'll be a depth winger @ best?  Did Calgary mess up his developement & limit what he'll be or would both he & the organizartion be best served by trading him while GMs still think he can become what he was drafted to be?

 

I read small sample size in some posts. 182 games is a fair sample so either we can look @ him as a fairly average player that will be lucky to have a long career or trade him while worth something & give him the chance to grow elsewhere. He's technically in his 4th year in a league where average players last 6-7 years.

 

Actually if you look up the zone starts Monahan and Gaudreau were definitely fed the same type of zone starts and quality of competition Bennett got. Bennett in his rookie year actually drew tougher assignments than Monahan as he was with Backlund for a fair bit. They also were both features on the PP, something the Flames have never really done with Bennett. I think we also forget Bennett had more points than Monahan his rookie year and only 4 less goals. We've forgotten pretty quickly how good Bennett was in his rookie year. 

 

I've beaten this like a drum for a while so I don't need to rant again but I do put most of the blame here on the Flames. I just don't see how you can expect a player to develop offensively when he's paired with poor line mates, not played on the PP and not being put in a position to be successfully offensively. It doesn't help that I think he's had a horrible string of luck early in his career, but I think the Flames did him no favors with his utilization. 

 

[MAC331]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ironically, Bennett + Hamonic. (I'd do it)

 

Tkachuk - Jankowski - Marner sounds even better.

BT had better get more than Marner for those two. Quite seriously I would trade Brodie because I think he is more of a problem defensively than most realize. He may be causing some of the problems with coverage that Hamonic is having.

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, MAC331 said:

BT had better get more than Marner for those two. Quite seriously I would trade Brodie because I think he is more of a problem defensively than most realize. He may be causing some of the problems with coverage that Hamonic is having.

 

That's fair.  Brodie's defensive game is hurting.

[cross16]

The numbers do not support Hamonic at all. Every single player who plays with Hamonic seems an uptik in their Corsi when they play away from Hamonic. I also believe Hamonic is one of the worst blue liners in the league this year in terms of relative Corsi. Hamonic is the drag on that pariing, no question about it.

 

The scary thing? Brodie has actually increased Hamonic's offensive numbers from the Island. Statistically Hamonic was this bad on the Island last year too. Time will tell but there could be a very real possiblity here that the Flames mis calculated that last year's down season for Hamonic was due to injury. 

[MAC331]

34 minutes ago, cross16 said:

The numbers do not support Hamonic at all. Every single player who plays with Hamonic seems an uptik in their Corsi when they play away from Hamonic. I also believe Hamonic is one of the worst blue liners in the league this year in terms of relative Corsi. Hamonic is the drag on that pariing, no question about it.

 

The scary thing? Brodie has actually increased Hamonic's offensive numbers from the Island. Statistically Hamonic was this bad on the Island last year too. Time will tell but there could be a very real possiblity here that the Flames mis calculated that last year's down season for Hamonic was due to injury. 

I still see a defenseman I would have on my team in Hamonic. If you want Marner you have to give up what the other side also sees as a quality player.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

The numbers do not support Hamonic at all. Every single player who plays with Hamonic seems an uptik in their Corsi when they play away from Hamonic. I also believe Hamonic is one of the worst blue liners in the league this year in terms of relative Corsi. Hamonic is the drag on that pariing, no question about it.

 

The scary thing? Brodie has actually increased Hamonic's offensive numbers from the Island. Statistically Hamonic was this bad on the Island last year too. Time will tell but there could be a very real possiblity here that the Flames mis calculated that last year's down season for Hamonic was due to injury. 

 

Looks like the Islanders made off with grand theft draft picks. 

 

I can't say Hamonic has been worth the cost it took to get him.  Sure I can brush it aside and say he's on a new team and needs time.  Plus, it sometimes takes a couple years to regain your game after surgery and injury.   He's only playing at half the impact I've seen him play in the past so a part of me feels if he can get back to that version of Hamonic, then we've got ourselves a top 5 shut down D in the league.  Yet, he's got a long way to go.  If the Leafs think highly of him, then we can't fault BT for correcting a mistake early before it really hurts the team.

[phoenix66]

I think if we were to go back a couple years in the posts  we'd see many saying the same thing about Hamilton . If i recall we were floating trade options 2 weeks into the season . I want to see more out of him too , but its a fact .. D takes time to gel. Its not a surprise his stats look down , but hes also the only guy on the ice thats not

12 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Looks like the Islanders made off with grand theft draft picks. 

 

I can't say Hamonic has been worth the cost it took to get him.  Sure I can brush it aside and say he's on a new team and needs time.  Plus, it sometimes takes a couple years to regain your game after surgery and injury.   He's only playing at half the impact I've seen him play in the past so a part of me feels if he can get back to that version of Hamonic, then we've got ourselves a top 5 shut down D in the league.  Yet, he's got a long way to go.  If the Leafs think highly of him, then we can't fault BT for correcting a mistake early before it really hurts the team.

y familiar with the system.

[travel_dude]

58 minutes ago, cross16 said:

The numbers do not support Hamonic at all. Every single player who plays with Hamonic seems an uptik in their Corsi when they play away from Hamonic. I also believe Hamonic is one of the worst blue liners in the league this year in terms of relative Corsi. Hamonic is the drag on that pariing, no question about it.

 

The scary thing? Brodie has actually increased Hamonic's offensive numbers from the Island. Statistically Hamonic was this bad on the Island last year too. Time will tell but there could be a very real possiblity here that the Flames mis calculated that last year's down season for Hamonic was due to injury. 

 

Unfortunately, the numbers do not explain much.  They imply that Hamonic is dragging down the team or his linemate, while Brodie somehow has no responsibility for it.  Since the two have played almost entirely together, the WOWY stuff is just a footnote.  IMHO.  Brodie played with Stone last year and had bad corsi numbers.  He actually had better numbers with Wideman.  Not sure what that proves either.

 

I get that some forgive Brodie for two bad seasons in a row, but I think he is responsible for much of the problems as his linemates.

 

[cross16]

35 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I think if we were to go back a couple years in the posts  we'd see many saying the same thing about Hamilton . If i recall we were floating trade options 2 weeks into the season . I want to see more out of him too , but its a fact .. D takes time to gel. Its not a surprise his stats look down , but hes also the only guy on the ice thats not

 

Get what you are saying and this isn't wrong. 

However the difference is Hamilton was fantastic in Boston and then struggled here before bouncing back. Harmonic struggled greatly last year, has been on a bit of a decline for a couple years and now is playing st the same level. 

Yes he stil may turn it around but I do think being in concerned territory is valid. I'd give him another 5-6 games or so but if you don't see improvement I think we need to be concerned and to People's point if there is an opportunity to correct an error Flames should take it. 

[cross16]

28 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Unfortunately, the numbers do not explain much.  They imply that Hamonic is dragging down the team or his linemate, while Brodie somehow has no responsibility for it.  Since the two have played almost entirely together, the WOWY stuff is just a footnote.  IMHO.  Brodie played with Stone last year and had bad corsi numbers.  He actually had better numbers with Wideman.  Not sure what that proves either.

 

I get that some forgive Brodie for two bad seasons in a row, but I think he is responsible for much of the problems as his linemates.

 

 

They don't say any of that. All they say is that's so far Hamonic has not played very well as a flame irregardless of who he has played with, with just emphasizes he hasn't played very well. 

[robrob74]

33 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

They don't say any of that. All they say is that's so far Hamonic has not played very well as a flame irregardless of who he has played with, with just emphasizes he hasn't played very well. 

 

For one, he had played primarily with Brodie, and then a small portion with others. Number two, you expect him to gel as  if they’ve played the whole year and every shift. Obviously numbers might look down. 

 

Plus, he has given Brodie the opportunity to be more offensive minded, but now the rest of the league has caught up to speed and it’s costing Brodie. 

 

I just dont don’t think we’ve given Hamonic enough time to judge. I ate crow on Hamilton, so I am waiting on Hamonic. 

 

At least Hamonic looks like he cares about our goalies, and makes others pay the price. Even Engelland didn’t really do that.

[xstrike]

Likely unpopular, but I thought I'd toss this out for discussion.

Did Sam Bennett permanently derail his career by trying to play through his shoulder injury just after he was drafted?