Official Sam Bennett Discussion Thread

[robrob74]

I think Bennett ends up a Backlund and we regret trading him. He is 20 and every game I’ve seen and heard he seems to be giving his best out there. 

 

A lot lot of times, especially last year, when we struggled most, he was the only one trying. He has it in him.

 

Its a big mistake to trade, but a lot on here are probably right, GG has lost faith in him. 

 

He’s gripping his stick tight.

 

i get you need to reward players, but versteeg and Brouwer get pp time over Bennett, someone you’re trying to get going offensively. So you expect him to thrive more on 5-in-5? Get himself going with elbowing line mates? I don’t get it.

 

Janks has two goals in a game and could possibly get a hat trick, but doesn’t put his line out for the empty netter? He puts Gaudreau’s line out... but if I were coach, i would be putting Bennett out for empty netters as well to try get him going.

 

he got a few since Jankowski came in. I say, let’s do the math. They’re a third line, they have decent production. Aside from a game or two, they’ve looked great. They’re the third line, why are we expecting first line production? I see him only getting about 35 points from a 3rd line... especially with the crew he has been saddled with up until Jankowski hit the scene. 

[cross16]

25 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

 

We have to ask ourselves , do we want a player that can only be effective when he has better players around him ? 

 

What's Ferland without Johnny/Mony? What's Frolik without Backlund? Bennett is most definelty effective on his own, he was last year despite terrible linemates, he just isn't maximizing his potential. Those are 2 different things. 

 

I think if you want to look for players under the age of 23 who didn't need help/better players to get their careers going you're going to find a very small list, especially if you exclude first overall picks. 

[phoenix66]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I think Bennett ends up a Backlund and we regret trading him. He is 20 and every game I’ve seen and heard he seems to be giving his best out there. 

 

A lot lot of times, especially last year, when we struggled most, he was the only one trying. He has it in him.

 

Its a big mistake to trade, but a lot on here are probably right, GG has lost faith in him. 

 

He’s gripping his stick tight.

 

i get you need to reward players, but versteeg and Brouwer get pp time over Bennett, someone you’re trying to get going offensively. So you expect him to thrive more on 5-in-5? Get himself going with elbowing line mates? I don’t get it.

 

Janks has two goals in a game and could possibly get a hat trick, but doesn’t put his line out for the empty netter? He puts Gaudreau’s line out... but if I were coach, i would be putting Bennett out for empty netters as well to try get him going.

 

he got a few since Jankowski came in. I say, let’s do the math. They’re a third line, they have decent production. Aside from a game or two, they’ve looked great. They’re the third line, why are we expecting first line production? I see him only getting about 35 points from a 3rd line... especially with the crew he has been saddled with up until Jankowski hit the scene. 

There's no denying or dispute he works hard , or that he's snakebitten.. but feeding him garbage time isn't the answer, with his current luck he'd pull a Patrick Stefan.

I agree Versteeg may not be the answer to the PP, but he replaced Brouwer so I'll give it a pass.. but I agree if you got a guy who cant buy a goal , you dont put him on the ice when you need one .. his career S% is around 12%, this year hes riding a 4 so the rules say he will bounce back , but even if he was on average hed have only 2 or 3.. hes had only 24 shots in 21 games  

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

What's Ferland without Johnny/Mony? What's Frolik without Backlund? Bennett is most definelty effective on his own, he was last year despite terrible linemates, he just isn't maximizing his potential. Those are 2 different things. 

 

I think if you want to look for players under the age of 23 who didn't need help/better players to get their careers going you're going to find a very small list, especially if you exclude first overall picks. 

Ferland actually is a guy who has been effective on all 4 lines , he earned his way up 

I'll give you Frolik , but we dont know for sure cuz thats where he slotted in and hasn't moved.. but he has been up to the top line a few times and also on the top powerplay .. but supposing you did move him to put Bennett there , then you're likely hurting Frolik .. replacing one problem with another 

 

All I'm saying , is that where things currently line up .. we either accept him as a hard working 2 way forward with some scoring ability until he proves otherwise and get off his back about not scoring ..  or look to see what the options are .. and currently we dont have any internal ones without potentially disrupting some where else 

[MAC331]

41 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Agreed -- you cant break what works in hopes of fixing something else .

Bennett has only ever had a degree of success playing with Backlund, but to put him back means potentially disrupting not only Tkachuk but that whole line. Ditto for Monahan and Johnny 

We have to ask ourselves , do we want a player that can only be effective when he has better players around him ?  Or a player that can get it done regardless 

Look up North at leon Draisaitl..  hes only at his best playing with McDavid.. hes barely average running his own line.. and they pay him over $8M year . Granted he can be a beast in the playoffs, but Sam was also one of our best playoff performers too 

If the Flames made any mistake at all with Bennett , its not putting him in the A, but that ship has sailed.

 

I still believe and have hopes he will snap out and snap out for good.. but we cant deny we are at the point where a decision has to be made . We either continue to be patient and allow him time to come around, with the very real possibility he may end up being a Stajan 2.0.. a guy who plays anywhere in the lineup responsibility but not going to be the scoring player we envisioned... or he could be Seguin.. a late bloomer 

 

IF he gets traded , we may be looking at another teams problem(Marner, Reinhart, Ho Sang etc) .. that can be fixed by 2 changes of scenery.. everybody knows his potential , BT wont sell low , he will keep him and stay the course first 

I wouldn't see trading Bennett for either Marner or Reinhart as selling low, would you ? I would view it more as a fundamental need change of a LW/C or a RW which we could use. I say Reinhart only because I don't think TOR has any intention of dealing Marner at all.

[phoenix66]

Just now, MAC331 said:

I wouldn't see trading Bennett for either Marner or Reinhart as selling low, would you ? I would view it more as a fundamental need change of a LW/C or a RW which we could use. I say Reinhart only because I don't think TOR has any intention of dealing Marner at all.

thats what I'm saying , I probably worded it badly ..IF he gets traded its likely or acceptable for one of those types..potential for potential with both teams losing a player that needs a change of scenery knowing they may blossom on the other end .

 

what BT wont do is sell low to the vultures . for what likely is being offered right now when they call..  I wouldn't trade him for a rental , but in the case of a Kane , or JVR  etc..id do it if we could work his extension first 

[CheersMan]

I’m not trading SB ATM.  We have the better part of two seasons to tap his potential.  Right now what I think he needs is a little tough love and less coddling.  Everybody has an option but only SB can figure it out.  This is not a physical issue, it’s a mental one between his ears.  Put him in the rafters for a couple, then bring him back on the 4^th line.  From there he can decide if he wants to sulk or be a hockey player and climb the ladder/or not, like everyone else.  No interest in shopping SB while his value is rock bottom.

[cross16]

51 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Ferland actually is a guy who has been effective on all 4 lines , he earned his way up 

 

 

Bennett had more goals than Ferland last year when Ferland was put up on the top line.  Little more ice time sure, but I dont' agree at all that Ferland earned his way up more than Bennett. The top line was struggling, they were running low on options so they gave Ferland a shot and it worked. Bennett has never been given that same shot. 

 

Sure it would require tough decisions but as i've said for months now I don't agree at all with this concept that our top 6 is working well and can't be changed. They were bounced in 4 games in the playoffs because they couldn't score (ironically where Bennett was likely their best forward) and now they are a middle of the pack team who struggles to generate offence 5 on 5 offence is by no means "working" in Calgary right now. 

[phoenix66]

14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Bennett had more goals than Ferland last year when Ferland was put up on the top line.  Little more ice time sure, but I dont' agree at all that Ferland earned his way up more than Bennett. The top line was struggling, they were running low on options so they gave Ferland a shot and it worked. Bennett has never been given that same shot. 

 

Sure it would require tough decisions but as i've said for months now I don't agree at all with this concept that our top 6 is working well and can't be changed. They were bounced in 4 games in the playoffs because they couldn't score (ironically where Bennett was likely their best forward) and now they are a middle of the pack team who struggles to generate offence 5 on 5 offence is by no means "working" in Calgary right now. 

agreed, but dont forget last year was "center or nothing " for Bennett (another mistake , maybe )  but in the meantime Ferland claimed that spot(for now anyway )

Right now our top line IS the only one scoring .. hypothetically how would moving Sam up and Ferland Down change that ? Sure Sam will get more points liley .. but we still will only have one line scoring 

 

another issue .. Jankowski has 20 shots in 13 games..  Bennett has 24 in 21.. FTLOG  start shooting the puck !

[redfire11]

In the CBJ game I thought Janks and Jagr looked lost without Bennett. These 2 players need a "bull in a china shop" to create opportunities. But Hey GG has his own pets and agenda.

[JTech780]

23 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

In the CBJ game I thought Janks and Jagr looked lost without Bennett. These 2 players need a "bull in a china shop" to create opportunities. But Hey GG has his own pets and agenda.

 

I didn't really notice them playing any different. I have noticed that Bennett quite often seems to get in the way of Janko and Jagr as they try and cycle. Bennett flies around but he doesn't seem to have the knack for finding the quiet ice while Jagr and Jankowski dig for pucks.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

agreed, but dont forget last year was "center or nothing " for Bennett (another mistake , maybe )  but in the meantime Ferland claimed that spot(for now anyway )

Right now our top line IS the only one scoring .. hypothetically how would moving Sam up and Ferland Down change that ? Sure Sam will get more points liley .. but we still will only have one line scoring 

 

another issue .. Jankowski has 20 shots in 13 games..  Bennett has 24 in 21.. FTLOG  start shooting the puck !

 

There is the problem though. "it's center or nothing for Bennett". " well we can't take Tkachuk off that line", " We can't split up Johnny-Mony", " we can't take Ferland off that line" "we need Versteeg's RH shot on the PP" etc etc etc.

 

It's always going to be something and the alternative is your highest drafted player and one of your most talented players gets stuck wasting away on your bottom six. Very frustrating to see 

[ABC923]

I'd actually like to see them try swapping Bennett for Tkachuk right now.  I agree the top line is killing it right now, but that second line (while solid defensively) is not exactly lighting up other teams.  They chip in here or there, but it could be improved.  So place Bennett in a position where he's succeeded before, and see what you have in Tkachuk when he's away from Backs and Frolik.  

As far as trading Bennett, there's no way you get Marner for him.  If you're lucky you get a second rounder (ala Baertschi, Lazar).  I say hold on to him.  He's only 21 for crying out loud.

[Fins&FIre15]

I was on the trade Bennett train early last season, heck, I may have even been the driver of that train.

 

The only problem I had with trading him back then is the one that still rings true IMO. Come April, is there a better player in our locker room? Last year he had to be top 5, even top 3 against Anaheim.

 

I wanted to get something for him while he was still worth a big return. Now that's not the case, and I find myself more leaning on the side of not trading him. See if he has another big playoff, after all, that's where legends are born. If he comes through, maybe we'll willingly take small production in the regular season for huge playoff performances.

 

There are certain players who come alive in the playoffs and don't lose that ability year to year, and I believe Bennett to be one of them. So that would be my only issue with trading him for a more skilled/softer player.

[MAC331]

5 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

I'd actually like to see them try swapping Bennett for Tkachuk right now.  I agree the top line is killing it right now, but that second line (while solid defensively) is not exactly lighting up other teams.  They chip in here or there, but it could be improved.  So place Bennett in a position where he's succeeded before, and see what you have in Tkachuk when he's away from Backs and Frolik.  

As far as trading Bennett, there's no way you get Marner for him.  If you're lucky you get a second rounder (ala Baertschi, Lazar).  I say hold on to him.  He's only 21 for crying out loud.

I was thinking and looking into the same thing with that line ABC but I have been an advocate since the offseason to move Tkachuk and Bennett together.

[MAC331]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I think Bennett ends up a Backlund and we regret trading him. He is 20 and every game I’ve seen and heard he seems to be giving his best out there. 

 

A lot lot of times, especially last year, when we struggled most, he was the only one trying. He has it in him.

 

Its a big mistake to trade, but a lot on here are probably right, GG has lost faith in him. 

 

He’s gripping his stick tight.

 

i get you need to reward players, but versteeg and Brouwer get pp time over Bennett, someone you’re trying to get going offensively. So you expect him to thrive more on 5-in-5? Get himself going with elbowing line mates? I don’t get it.

 

Janks has two goals in a game and could possibly get a hat trick, but doesn’t put his line out for the empty netter? He puts Gaudreau’s line out... but if I were coach, i would be putting Bennett out for empty netters as well to try get him going.

 

he got a few since Jankowski came in. I say, let’s do the math. They’re a third line, they have decent production. Aside from a game or two, they’ve looked great. They’re the third line, why are we expecting first line production? I see him only getting about 35 points from a 3rd line... especially with the crew he has been saddled with up until Jankowski hit the scene. 

I think Bennett needs another 4 goal game just to shut everyone up. LOL

[DirtyDeeds]

20 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Have to agree with Cross. He and i may view the reasoning but Bennetts done. Its been 2 seasons under Gully and he has regressed each of them. If he is best suited on the 4 th line here do the kid a favour and trade him where he can play. Bet he would thrive in ANA or Van. Either way such a waste, he will be something good just not under Gully, hate to say 

One has to wonder if the management took into consideration the prospects development when they hired GG or just the possession game they felt we needed to play.

 

While our farm team is improving each year Bennett bypassed the AHL system.

[DirtyDeeds]

too early to give up on Sam.. and 4th line not doing him any favors.

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

too early to give up on Sam.. and 4th line not doing him any favors.

 

It's frustrating to watch.  The one line he had really excelled on is the line he hasn't been played on; the 3M line.  The Janko/Jagr line has been good for generating scoring opportunities, but just isn't scoring consistently.  He has looked good without the puck, just can't seem to find the net with it. 

 

I didn't like Versteeg on the Janko line because it made them weaker with and without the puck.  As a result, they spent more of their shifts trying to get the puck out of the D-zone. 

 

I'm not saying don't make a trade.  Just don't give him crap to play with because the line isn't scoring.         

[stubblejumper1]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

 

 

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

There is the problem though. "it's center or nothing for Bennett". " well we can't take Tkachuk off that line", " We can't split up Johnny-Mony", " we can't take Ferland off that line" "we need Versteeg's RH shot on the PP" etc etc etc.

 

It's always going to be something and the alternative is your highest drafted player and one of your most talented players gets stuck wasting away on your bottom six. Very frustrating to see 

 

I’m not sure how Bennett qualifies as one of the team’s most talented players?  By what measure?   

 

He only has 3 points.  He takes a lot of penalties (20 PIMs that usually put the team on the PK).  Very few shots on goal. Can’t play centre.  Right now he is Ryan Reeves without the fighting. 

 

At at some point Bennett has to do something to earn more ice time.  Take some shots.  Make some passes. Throw some hits.  Block some shots.  Stand up for a teammate.  Anything.  

 

 

 

 

 

[cross16]

Just now, stubblejumper1 said:

 

 

I’m not sure how Bennett qualifies as one of the team’s most talented players?  By what measure?   

 

He only has 3 points.  He takes a lot of penalties (20 PIMs that usually put the team on the PK).  Very few shots on goal. Can’t play centre.  Right now he is Ryan Reeves without the fighting. 

 

At at some point Bennett has to do something to earn more ice time.  Take some shots.  Make some passes. Throw some hits.  Block some shots.  Stand up for a teammate.  Anything.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you see him in junior? Did you see his rookie year? Didn't you see him go through the Predators a few weeks ago?

talent like that doesn't leave or go away. 

[DHT]

6 minutes ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

 

I’m not sure how Bennett qualifies as one of the team’s most talented players?  By what measure?   

 

He only has 3 points.  He takes a lot of penalties (20 PIMs that usually put the team on the PK).  Very few shots on goal. Can’t play centre.  Right now he is Ryan Reeves without the fighting. 

 

At at some point Bennett has to do something to earn more ice time.  Take some shots.  Make some passes. Throw some hits.  Block some shots.  Stand up for a teammate.  Anything.  

 

 

 

 

 

He did stick up for Johnny when they were playing together. I really like Bennett with Johnny. I would give him the top line over Ferland and let him develop with the first line. The reason they didn't put him on first line last year was because they want him as center.

[Khrox]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

What's Ferland without Johnny/Mony? What's Frolik without Backlund? Bennett is most definelty effective on his own, he was last year despite terrible linemates, he just isn't maximizing his potential. Those are 2 different things. 

 

I think if you want to look for players under the age of 23 who didn't need help/better players to get their careers going you're going to find a very small list, especially if you exclude first overall picks. 

Frolik without Backlund is pretty much the same as Frolik with Backlund, but with less defensive responsibility. Outside of a year or two, he's generally been a 35-45 points a year, 15-20g, 20-25a player. Being with Backlund since coming here hasn't changed that. And away from here it was similar stats, whether in Florida, Chicago, or Winnipeg. He was likely just used in a less extreme shut-down role (while he was still a shut-down player, no one can deny how much of that heavy lifting he has done with Backlund since coming here).

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, Khrox said:

Frolik without Backlund is pretty much the same as Frolik with Backlund, but with less defensive responsibility. Outside of a year or two, he's generally been a 35-45 points a year, 15-20g, 20-25a player. Being with Backlund since coming here hasn't changed that. And away from here it was similar stats, whether in Florida, Chicago, or Winnipeg. He was likely just used in a less extreme shut-down role (while he was still a shut-down player, no one can deny how much of that heavy lifting he has done with Backlund since coming here).

 

Comment wasn't meant as a negative to Frolik, I quite like frolik. 

 

But as a flames he was tried on different lines and the results were meh and in some cases poor. My main point was disputing this notion that it's a negative thst good players are needed to make someone better  it's actually quite common. 

[stubblejumper1]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Did you see him in junior? Did you see his rookie year? Didn't you see him go through the Predators a few weeks ago?

talent like that doesn't leave or go away. 

 

No offence, but what he did in junior is no longer relevant to what he can do in the NHL.  Maybe his shoulder injury ruined his true potential.

 

He was good good as a rookie, but even many Calder trophy winners don’t turn into first or second line players.  

 

I really want to be wrong, but I think Bennett tops out as a third liner.