Official Sam Bennett Discussion Thread

[FlameFan4Life]

I was one of the people that would say I have been disappointed in his play, but I have changed my opinion. I look at what others have said on here and agree that with the minutes he is getting and the zone starts, along with PK time he is being developed to be a great shutdown center. I also agree that he has alot more offence to offer but that is not what we are asking from him at this point. If we were to put Lazar on the RW with him he may find some chemistry or maybe Hathaway but at this time I think he is excelling in his roll. Yes his numbers would benifit from PP time or top six minutes, but put the others drafted before him in the same role and would they do as well?... Draisaitl has the frame from it Reinhart is a No IMO and JE maybe but Bennett is being turned into a more complete player. We all seem to agree Bennett has the ability to produce points as a top 6 player no doubt, but he is becoming more than just a one trick pony.  JG could never be put in the physical role that Bennett is but Bennett could probably slot in to JG spot fairly easily.

 

To some it up, we have a great player in Bennett that is getting more well rounded and more reliable by the day. There may come a time were he will need to slot in somewhere else in the line up and surprise the whole league. With his lower than expected points out put he will come cheaper come contract time so all in all I say we should all give our heads a shake and be very very thankful we have this young man on our team and stop calling him anything other than a great player. 

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I think we're all closer than we think.  Ie., FF is less concerned, but now projects him as a top 6 rather than a #1 center.

 

For me, I see the exact same altered projection, it just concerns me a lot more.

 

I think you "sound the alarm bells" at the end of season, and come up with a great Off-season training strategy for him.   The motivation is there, I really think a strong organization will take the time to provide valuable resources and investment there.   So, not really an alarm, but an investment to rectify the situation as early as possible.  Because quite honestly, the younger a player is the more pliable they are.    We could still have a #1 center if things turn around.  And we have to hope for that.

 

Also....learning.   Some kind of learning should occur.  We rushed the kid.   He impressed early.  That adrenaline thing.  He appeared ready in the playoffs.  He performed ready.   But he was a kid.  And he was coming off an entire year of missed hockey.  Another year of junior would have done him a lot of good imho.   

 

ps....It kills me when people Don't want to learn from the past.   like the Baertschi thread, where people literally go on there and beg for people to stop posting about him.  Whether it's in the past, present, or future, our heads belong on our shoulders and not in the sand.   And this is a perfect example.  If we HAD learned from Backlund, we wouldn't have had the same issue with Baertschi.   If we HAD learned from Baertschi, we Wouldn't be having this issue with Bennett.   This is a cyclical issue that won't go away any time soon.

Learned what may I ask ?

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Learned what may I ask ?

 

That applying basic and fundamental hockey development principles to your most elite prospects is just as important, if not vastly more important, than applying them to the rest of your prospects. 

 

To summarize, quite honestly, we have winged it, and taken the biggest "he'll figure it out" risks, with our most valuable prospects.  Not because we should, but because they're skilled enough that we Can.   But is that the best use of their skill?   While with lesser prospects, we'll carefully and methodically hold them back in junior, and the AHL, or College, as needed, until we are absolutely sure about them.  In many ways, they receive more development investment than the organization's greatest assets.

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Next year. If he doesn't take a step forward offensively next year than I would start to question whether he will hit the first line upside he has. 

 

How much of a step is a step forward though? 

Are we talking 25 goals? 

[cross16]

14 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

How much of a step is a step forward though? 

Are we talking 25 goals? 

 

hard to say. Going to depend on circumstances, ice time, situations, linemates etc. In short a lot of variable go into to predicting numbers. Plus I'd be just as happy with 15-20 goals and his assists double. 

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

hard to day. Going to depend on circumstances, ice time, situations, linemates etc. In short a lot of variable go into to predicting numbers. Plus I'd be just as happy with 15-20 goals and his assists double. 

 

I don't even think that is enough for the naysayers. I am totally fine with it. Learning to Play in the NHL is a process. Some take longer than others. Sometimes we need to be more patient. 

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

That applying basic and fundamental hockey development principles to your most elite prospects is just as important, if not vastly more important, than applying them to the rest of your prospects. 

 

To summarize, quite honestly, we have winged it, and taken the biggest "he'll figure it out" risks, with our most valuable prospects.  Not because we should, but because they're skilled enough that we Can.   But is that the best use of their skill?   While with lesser prospects, we'll carefully and methodically hold them back in junior, and the AHL, or College, as needed, until we are absolutely sure about them.  In many ways, they receive more development investment than the organization's greatest assets.

I don't think any of this explains what we should have learned from Backlund or Baertschi's situation to handling Bennett. I don't plan to go way back on either player but if I remember correctly Backlund had a lot of bad habits that Sutter wanted corrected before he wanted him on a team of veteran players. Baertschi came out off a Swiss system thinking he was an entitled offensive star, he wasn't, and he didn't want to apply himself to become a better all round player. The treatment for Backlund has made him into the player he is today. Baertschi is rightfully a Canuck. Sam Bennett is a very talented player and nothing else to prove with another year of Junior. This team is in a rebuild and filling holes with these high talent draft choices wile supporting them with sound experienced veterans. I think this is a sound strategy, one that is working. The question for me is should Bennett be a C or a LW at the NHL level. One will take longer to perfect than the other. Would it be so terrible if Bennett became another Gary Roberts for us on LW, I don't think so.

[DirtyDeeds]

On 3/8/2017 at 1:40 PM, The_People1 said:

Too many posts to quote.

 

My expectations were admittedly high but not without reason.  Bennett dominated Juniors, was a 4th overall pick, came back from surgery strong, put on 25 lbs of muscle since his draft, equalled Monahan's rookie season offensive output, had a great pre-season, etc, etc.

 

Given all that, given he never failed to meet expectations at 19 that suddenly being 20 can be used as a shield by some to deflect criticism of his progression.

 

Career paths are rarely linear but at what point do you begin to sound the alarm bells?

If he has been playing bad enough to set off alarm bells don't you think they would have benched him or taken him out of the lineup or sent him down to the farm?

[The_People1]

16 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

If he has been playing bad enough to set off alarm bells don't you think they would have benched him or taken him out of the lineup or sent him down to the farm?

 

Obviously if he's playing bad enough to the point where he shouldn't even be in the NHL, then alarm bells should go off for everyone.  But what I'm asking about is alarm bells for expectations which, unless you only expected him to make the NHL and nothing more, then Bennett trending towards becoming a dependable third line Center will not set off alarms bells for you.  But, if you have expectations of Bennett becoming an offensive force in the NHL, then at what point would you start worrying?

[redfire11]

I felt that Bennett's line had a good game against the Habs. He missed some chances but his line created chances and at some point they will go in. I also thought Brower and Vertseeg played one of their best games and if this continues Bennett will thrive.

[MAC331]

39 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Obviously if he's playing bad enough to the point where he shouldn't even be in the NHL, then alarm bells should go off for everyone.  But what I'm asking about is alarm bells for expectations which, unless you only expected him to make the NHL and nothing more, then Bennett trending towards becoming a dependable third line Center will not set off alarms bells for you.  But, if you have expectations of Bennett becoming an offensive force in the NHL, then at what point would you start worrying?

Why worry at all right now ? Bennett is gaining valuable experience and I believe that is fine for now. Mind you we have had the luxury of having Backlund's line rising to the occasion and now Monahan's line seems sorted out. Bennett now has two experienced vets to play beside him, let's see how this goes.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Obviously if he's playing bad enough to the point where he shouldn't even be in the NHL, then alarm bells should go off for everyone.  But what I'm asking about is alarm bells for expectations which, unless you only expected him to make the NHL and nothing more, then Bennett trending towards becoming a dependable third line Center will not set off alarms bells for you.  But, if you have expectations of Bennett becoming an offensive force in the NHL, then at what point would you start worrying?

 

My expectations have not changed! I feel like we have a good one and thought it could take a few years before. 

 

Another thing for me is, Bennett isn't huge, he is a kid, and he just needs confidence and a good winger. 

 

If it takes a few more years and he is as good or better than Backlund, then we are golden! 

 

My thoughts are 60 - 70 points. 25goals... 

[MAC331]

19 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

My expectations have not changed! I feel like we have a good one and thought it could take a few years before. 

 

Another thing for me is, Bennett isn't huge, he is a kid, and he just needs confidence and a good winger. 

 

If it takes a few more years and he is as good or better than Backlund, then we are golden! 

 

My thoughts are 60 - 70 points. 25goals... 

Aside from the team goal of having him learn the C position within the new system I was wanting to see Bennett be more of a playmaker. We are only starting to see some of this now vs before he was all ramcharger. As he gains the experience the game will slow down for him and he will become more effective IMO. I would still like to see him shifted to the LW only because I think it suits his style of play and we have other Cs now becoming available up through the system.

[robrob74]

25 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Aside from the team goal of having him learn the C position within the new system I was wanting to see Bennett be more of a playmaker. We are only starting to see some of this now vs before he was all ramcharger. As he gains the experience the game will slow down for him and he will become more effective IMO. I would still like to see him shifted to the LW only because I think it suits his style of play and we have other Cs now becoming available up through the system.

 

I was arguing that as well, when everyone complained about his game about a month or so ago. 

 

He was one of the best players to start the season. I think he would be closer to a 20 goal guy this year on the wing. I also think his game is suited to wing.

 

But if we want to keep him developing at center, I see the rewards next season or the season after. Like you said, once he passes more, the game will open up. He will.

[MAC331]

Just now, robrob74 said:

 

I was arguing that as well, when everyone complained about his game about a month or so ago. 

 

He was one of the best players to start the season. I think he would be closer to a 20 goal guy this year on the wing. I also think his game is suited to wing.

 

But if we want to keep him developing at center, I see the rewards next season or the season after. Like you said, once he passes more, the game will open up. He will.

Management will have a few key position questions to address in the offseason I believe. Goaltending, 3 defensemen positions and how to arrange the forward talent that remains. Who graduates from the minors ? this is an offseason to look forward to IMO.

[DirtyDeeds]

On 3/10/2017 at 10:48 AM, The_People1 said:

 

Obviously if he's playing bad enough to the point where he shouldn't even be in the NHL, then alarm bells should go off for everyone.  But what I'm asking about is alarm bells for expectations which, unless you only expected him to make the NHL and nothing more, then Bennett trending towards becoming a dependable third line Center will not set off alarms bells for you.  But, if you have expectations of Bennett becoming an offensive force in the NHL, then at what point would you start worrying?

Bennett is only 20 and learning one of the most difficult positions in hockey. Waaaaaaayyyy, Waaaaaaayyyy, Waaaaaaayyyy too soon to be screaming "the sky is falling" on him.

 

I won't worry even a moment for about another 3-4 years yet and and even then see his play is on the decline. 

 

Also he has not had much for supporting linemates. Monahan in comparison has had JH as his linemate sine the beginning. Just about everyone on these forums stated we needed to find him some linemates.... Lets give Bennettt some leeway until we give him something decent to work with.

[robrob74]

49 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Bennett is only 20 and learning one of the most difficult positions in hockey. Waaaaaaayyyy, Waaaaaaayyyy, Waaaaaaayyyy too soon to be screaming "the sky is falling" on him.

 

I won't worry even a moment for about another 3-4 years yet and and even then see his play is on the decline. 

 

Also he has not had much for supporting linemates. Monahan in comparison has had JH as his linemate sine the beginning. Just about everyone on these forums stated we needed to find him some linemates.... Lets give Bennettt some leeway until we give him something decent to work with.

 

I also think this is great that he doesn't have to be highly depended on while learning. Plus he isn't bad defensively.

[Meatpuppet42]

Wow can he fight!

[MAC331]

7 hours ago, Meatpuppet42 said:

Wow can he fight!

Great tilt. I came away from this game thinking Trouba would look good as a Flame. If we could get Trouba and Brandon Manning from PHI for our defense the Battle of Alberta would get real interesting. LOL

[JTech780]

Bennett might not be putting up the points everyone was hoping for and part of that has to do with opportunity with Monahan and Backlund ahead of him he just isn't going to herbage playing time to put up a ton of points. Even though then points aren't coming his defensive game is growing by leaps and bounds this year and that bodes well for the future. He is coming back hard into his own zone and battling well down low, he using his bulldog mentality to get the puck back and transition it the other way.

 

I also like the fights, showing some heart and compete.

[Flyerfan52]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Great tilt. I came away from this game thinking Trouba would look good as a Flame. If we could get Trouba and Brandon Manning from PHI for our defense the Battle of Alberta would get real interesting. LOL

I get the idea but doubt Trouba will be available.

 

Manning (0.925 for next season & then UFA) could likely be had. He's good enough to take regular shifts as he's logged about 17 minutes the last 3 years so he wouldn't be on roster just to give McDavid & company night mares. He'd lower our expenditure on D with Wideman gone. 

Stone & England will need to be re-upped so I'm hoping we kick the tires on UFA Del Zotto who has impressed me since Hex took a chance on him after the Rags & Preds gave up. Nashville didn't qualify him as RFA after trading for him so the Flyers gave him a low ball offer, he held up his end so got a raise to just under $4 million per. (No further hints about him & porn actresses since he hit Philly).

 

The reason I figure Del Zotto won't be re-upped (unless willing to take the same $s when the specter of big bucks rises as UFA) is the budget still hasn't totally recovered from Homer's signings (MacDonald is the last of those left). Del Zotto will probably get offers in the 5 - 5.5 range on the open market.

I see Manning come available because the prized young D like Sanheim, Morin or even Phiippe Myers will get a dang good chance to stick with the big team. There are still Hagg & Morin to really test as they enter the 3rd year of their ELCs.

Both players are 26 which is a pretty safe age to judge as to their role & worth so a year of Manning on the cheap would be great.

With Del Zotto it'd be harder as players that get multiyear offers won't sign for a cheap 1 year test drive.

[MAC331]

Just now, Flyerfan52 said:

I get the idea but doubt Trouba will be available.

 

Manning (0.925 for next season & then UFA) could likely be had. He's good enough to take regular shifts as he's logged about 17 minutes the last 3 years so he wouldn't be on roster just to give McDavid & company night mares. He'd lower our expenditure on D with Wideman gone. 

Stone & England will need to be re-upped so I'm hoping we kick the tires on UFA Del Zotto who has impressed me since Hex took a chance on him after the Rags & Preds gave up. Nashville didn't qualify him as RFA after trading for him so the Flyers gave him a low ball offer, he held up his end so got a raise to just under $4 million per. (No further hints about him & porn actresses since he hit Philly).

 

The reason I figure Del Zotto won't be re-upped (unless willing to take the same $s when the specter of big bucks rises as UFA) is the budget still hasn't totally recovered from Homer's signings (MacDonald is the last of those left). Del Zotto will probably get offers in the 5 - 5.5 range on the open market.

I see Manning come available because the prized young D like Sanheim, Morin or even Phiippe Myers will get a dang good chance to stick with the big team. There are still Hagg & Morin to really test as they enter the 3rd year of their ELCs.

Both players are 26 which is a pretty safe age to judge as to their role & worth so a year of Manning on the cheap would be great.

With Del Zotto it'd be harder as players that get multiyear offers won't sign for a cheap 1 year test drive.

I now worry about resigning Stone after this injury, that shoulder came out to easily and he is coming back from knee surgery. It would be good to sign someone more healthy and not a risk to injury at any time.

Trouba showed me an edge I would like to see more of from our defensemen. You sure a 1st and Gilles wouldn't do the trick ???

Having Manning around would just be great for playing Edmonton. LOL

Anyways it was just a thought.

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I now worry about resigning Stone after this injury, that shoulder came out to easily and he is coming back from knee surgery. It would be good to sign someone more healthy and not a risk to injury at any time.

Trouba showed me an edge I would like to see more of from our defensemen. You sure a 1st and Gilles wouldn't do the trick ???

Having Manning around would just be great for playing Edmonton. LOL

Anyways it was just a thought.

 

First of all, I hate the idea of using Gillies as a trade chip.  He's the only prospect we have that has looked like a pro hockey goalie, Rittich aside.  No way am I giving up on Gillies this early in his career.  

 

Backlund is more of an injury risk than Stone.  In other words, I think there is little risk to either.  It's not like Ekblad with multiple concussions.  Trouba is as likely to be injured long term as Stone.   

[MAC331]

43 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

First of all, I hate the idea of using Gillies as a trade chip.  He's the only prospect we have that has looked like a pro hockey goalie, Rittich aside.  No way am I giving up on Gillies this early in his career.  

 

Backlund is more of an injury risk than Stone.  In other words, I think there is little risk to either.  It's not like Ekblad with multiple concussions.  Trouba is as likely to be injured long term as Stone.   

LOL first off nobody will be asking your permission to trade Gilles. Secondly if they were to either sign or trade for an experienced goalie for 3 years or more Gilles becomes tradebait. Thirdly, getting a talent such as Trouba to go Brodie wouldn't necessarily mean BT has to pass on Stone but it gives him options.

In regards to any discussion with injuries involved would be and is all speculation. I just never like when I see a player get injured so easily. You could get a Bouma like player who won't engage contact any longer.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

LOL first off nobody will be asking your permission to trade Gilles. Secondly if they were to either sign or trade for an experienced goalie for 3 years or more Gilles becomes tradebait. Thirdly, getting a talent such as Trouba to go Brodie wouldn't necessarily mean BT has to pass on Stone but it gives him options.

In regards to any discussion with injuries involved would be and is all speculation. I just never like when I see a player get injured so easily. You could get a Bouma like player who won't engage contact any longer.

 

You must be one of the few that thinks trading Gillies is a good thing.  Perhaps you think PITTS should have traded Murray having an all star like MAF signed long term.  Who is the tradebait now?  If Gillies has enough value to make a Trouba trade possible, then we would be giving up a potential starter.  We can;t keep trading away NHL potential goalies.  

 

Whatever the injury is to Stone, I doubt that he is injury prone.  Shoulder injuries are very easy to get from impact.  The pads don't stop the force pushing on your bones and tendons, etc.