Goaltending

[robrob74]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The bottom 6 isn't hard to fill in.

You just have to realize that preventing goals is as important than scoring.

To use last year as an example, only Ryan and Hathaway were effective at cancelling out goals scored when on the ice.

Mangiapane was too, but only played part of the year

That means you don't have scrubs like Neal, bruisers like Bennett and marginal C's like Janko.

So, I would say we have guys in the system that can do that.

 

The defense was structured poorly this past season.

Nobody taking the guy in front of the net effectively.

Even with Gio or Ras on the ice, the struggle was there.

It starts with communication, but I wonder if Gio even realizes it.

There were so many times that the defense was in too deep on a borderline offfensive chance.

I get frustrated with Brodie, but he never over-committed.

Unlike Gio or Hanifin.

Hamonic was never able to get back even if he was on the center line.

 

I will be honest, but I'm not really sure what they have in Rittich.

On a defensive team he would have shutouts.  I think.

So, I'm going to suggest that replacing him in a rebuild scenario is not necessary.

Vasilefskiy looked unbeatable, except when he wasn't.

TBL plays a good game in front of him and he stunk when they didn't.

Taking away the 2nd chances is what separates the good teams.

 

 

 

I think we have about 2 or 3 bottom 6 guys that I'd keep: Ryan, Mangiapane, Dube. I'd like to upgrade on one or two of them because those are some small bottom 6 players. Although, the hope is that Dube gets up to the top6. 

 

I've thought the defence has been very poorly structured for a long time and you're right about the front of the net, they've been very bad at clearing after a 1st shot. I don't know if Rittich is a Cup guy, but I am with you, I think he could be a good 1 option for a few years. I know you can't put the eggs in the basket and count on them in succeeding (Wolf and Parsons) but we need someone to cover until someone else takes it over if Rittich doesn't. Who knows, he could be that guy. Would another 7-8 years of him be so terrible if he can learn to be consistent? 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

One good playoff can change the narrative around a player forever.

 

Look at the Blues of last year

 

Heading into the playoffs, Binnington was on a remarkable run, but nobody though of him as a franchise goalie. More people thought he was the latest resurrection of the Hamburglar. He went on a run, won a cup and is now thought of as a franchise goalie. Before January of 2019 he was thought of as an AHL-lifer.

 

Look at ROR. The Blues were applauded for acquiring him, but it was not praised as the Blues acquiring a franchise C, ROR was a very good 2nd line C, always very good defensively. At any point during last season, if a trade of ROR for Monahan was suggested many Flames fans wouldn't have done it. Flash-forward to June and ROR puts the Blues on his back, winning a cup. Now he's a franchise C.

 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

 

 

 

Stating the obvious, but likely the end of Gillies as a Flame

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

 

Stating the obvious, but likely the end of Gillies as a Flame

 

Yes, I would concede that as well.

I suppose there is some slim chance they sign him for less.

League minimum.

If they do, it's to prop up the ECHL team or have a backup to allow you to rotate a tender to the ECHL for tuneups.

Lets face it, the AHL season is so weirdly structured.  If a backup sits for two games, it might be two weeks between games.

You want to give a goalie a little run, it means 3 weeks.

Not an effective way to manage a goalie. 

 

But, I always forget about that other goalie.

He's closer to Parsons age.

 

[JTech780]

Lots of back to back and even the odd 3 in 3 nights in the AHL. You need to have two goalies. I can see Parsons and Big Snag Zag splitting time with the Heat next season.

 

From what I have read Zagidulin showed some promise this season. He went 16-7-1. Worth another look.

[The_People1]

27 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

 

Stating the obvious, but likely the end of Gillies as a Flame

 

Too bad with Gillies.  So much hype and then he gets optional surgery on his knee (I believe).  That set him back and he never got better again.  

[The_People1]

Is Dustin Wolf playing another year in WHL?  I guess Schneider to ECHL and Parsons to Heat.

[Thebrewcrew]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

Is Dustin Wolf playing another year in WHL?  I guess Schneider to ECHL and Parsons to Heat.

Yup, has to play one more season of junior.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Too bad with Gillies.  So much hype and then he gets optional surgery on his knee (I believe).  That set him back and he never got better again.  

 

Agreed.   Very unfortunate.  In true fashion, many on here stated that Gillies was never the real deal.

 

I think he was.   But only a very few real deals make it to the NHL.

[JTech780]

The signing makes even more sense now.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

The signing makes even more sense now.

 

So we signed him just to expose him?

[JTech780]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

So we signed him just to expose him?

 

Need to plan ahead.

 

[travel_dude]

15 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Agreed.   Very unfortunate.  In true fashion, many on here stated that Gillies was never the real deal.

 

I think he was.   But only a very few real deals make it to the NHL.

 

We can never be sure of how the injury impacted his development.

 

[cross16]

20 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Lots of back to back and even the odd 3 in 3 nights in the AHL. You need to have two goalies. I can see Parsons and Big Snag Zag splitting time with the Heat next season.

 

From what I have read Zagidulin showed some promise this season. He went 16-7-1. Worth another look.

 

Treliving has said as much on a few calls now. Expectation is exactly this that Parsons and Zag are the AHL goalies next year. 

 

I agree he is worth another look and it's pretty common that the goalies coming from overseas tend to struggle the first year in terms of numbers. Lots comment about how the ice and the style of play are a bigger transition that it would appear to us and the nice thing about Zac, from everything I read, is he flashed a lot of upside. Consistency would be what you'd like to see out of him next year. 

 

I agree it's the end of Gilles (as it was always likely to be anyway) and that is too bad but makes sense. Gilles had all the talent you want but for me he just couldn't never get to the level of being dialed in for 60 minutes. Too many mental lapses that would lead to bad goals and he just could not overcome that which is true for so many prospects. 

 

I think part of re signing Zag is they needed that depth. I'm not sure how comfortable you'd be with the idea of Parsons playing NHL games next year if an injury occurred so having Zag is good depth. If he had of left I think they would have been in the market for a goalie who could be a call up option. 

16 hours ago, JTech780 said:

The signing makes even more sense now.

 

Unfortunately this turned out to be incorrect (and Pike clarified that). If you have 2 or less pro season under your built you are not eligible for the expansion draft and Zag won't have that. 

 

 

[JTech780]

58 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Treliving has said as much on a few calls now. Expectation is exactly this that Parsons and Zag are the AHL goalies next year. 

 

I agree he is worth another look and it's pretty common that the goalies coming from overseas tend to struggle the first year in terms of numbers. Lots comment about how the ice and the style of play are a bigger transition that it would appear to us and the nice thing about Zac, from everything I read, is he flashed a lot of upside. Consistency would be what you'd like to see out of him next year. 

 

I agree it's the end of Gilles (as it was always likely to be anyway) and that is too bad but makes sense. Gilles had all the talent you want but for me he just couldn't never get to the level of being dialed in for 60 minutes. Too many mental lapses that would lead to bad goals and he just could not overcome that which is true for so many prospects. 

 

I think part of re signing Zag is they needed that depth. I'm not sure how comfortable you'd be with the idea of Parsons playing NHL games next year if an injury occurred so having Zag is good depth. If he had of left I think they would have been in the market for a goalie who could be a call up option. 

 

Unfortunately this turned out to be incorrect (and Pike clarified that). If you have 2 or less pro season under your built you are not eligible for the expansion draft and Zag won't have that. 

 

 

 

That's too bad, I am guessing Calgary will sign another goalie to make available soon, possibly even bringing back Schneider who should meet their expansion draft requirements.

[cross16]

37 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

That's too bad, I am guessing Calgary will sign another goalie to make available soon, possibly even bringing back Schneider who should meet their expansion draft requirements.

 

I think the later would be the strategy. There is also exposing Parsons who, unless things do a 180, would be highly unlikely to be claimed. 

[travel_dude]

59 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

That's too bad, I am guessing Calgary will sign another goalie to make available soon, possibly even bringing back Schneider who should meet their expansion draft requirements.

 

Considering that nobody is going to sign Gillies, you could just offer him league minimum with a slight raise built into the AHL portion.

Then he can go to the ECHL and play all he wants.

He meets the requirements for exposing him.

 

Why the Flames do it:

For one they tend to treat good sports well.

At best he's an emergency call up to the AHL.

 

Why Gillies would sign as a UFA:

He's not going to get many, if any offers.

It still gives him a chance to change minds in Calgary.

[Thebrewcrew]

It's as simple as giving Parsons a 2 year deal, then they meet the requirements. I really doubt SEA takes him anyway, if Lucic doesn't waive his NMC, Dube or Backlund will be headed to SEA. 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Considering that nobody is going to sign Gillies, you could just offer him league minimum with a slight raise built into the AHL portion.

Then he can go to the ECHL and play all he wants.

He meets the requirements for exposing him.

 

Why the Flames do it:

For one they tend to treat good sports well.

At best he's an emergency call up to the AHL.

 

Why Gillies would sign as a UFA:

He's not going to get many, if any offers.

It still gives him a chance to change minds in Calgary.

 

That won't work unless they give him a 2 year deal. You need to be under contract or an RFA to meet the exposure requirements and unless they sign him to a 2 year deal he won't qualify. I don't see why Gilles would stick around for 2 more years, nor should the Flames want him to. 

 

Flames just need to bring Parsons and Schneider back on 1 year deals next year and they are fine. Both will meet the requirements for exposure next summer and if Parsons turns it around you can keep him and if not it won't matter anyway as he would not be taken.

[jjgallow]

On 6/16/2020 at 9:16 AM, travel_dude said:

 

We can never be sure of how the injury impacted his development.

 

 

Yet so many on here are sure that he was always just a dud.

[jjgallow]

On 6/15/2020 at 10:48 AM, travel_dude said:

 

I do happen to believe that Gio has at most one good season or so left.

Good as in this year's production.

What I am hoping is that we go after Pietrangelo this summer.

He may not want to play for us, which is understood.

BT may not want to pay that high a AAV.

But he is exactly the type of player you build a contender around.

 

I get that you are quick to dismiss the top line.

Last playoff and this year showed how they can lose the chemistry.

They went from leading a team to being shut down in the playoffs.

We don't really know why.

You should, perhaps, wait till the end of the Flames season to truly comment.

 

This was a very different season for the Flames.

Monahan went from a perimeter sniper to being harder on the body.

His defensive play is still shoddy, but nobody took notice of it.

 

If you operate on the premise that this year was a one-off, then you have the makings of a contender.

They did however play against tough teams this year with some good results.

Not from the scoring side, but from the statistical dominance side.

Those are the areas that can make a difference in a playoff game.

I think we can hang with any team and it's a matter of who can prevent goals.

Let's compare notes in August. 

 

August it is       What I'm curious about is your position on a rebuild in August, as well as others opinion.

 

Pertaining to this thread, that lends itself to young world-class goaltending prospect acquisition imho.

 

The sooner we start, actually means Less rebuilding pain.  I would have started 2 seasons ago, and we'd be halfway through it by now...already one of the brightest young teams in the NHL with some future superstars in our ranks.

 

I suspect the organization will keep it going until they have actually hit a wall and have zero choice, and then announce a "rebuild" because well they can't do anything else.  That's how it went down last time.

 

Anyway, maybe this time the timing will work.   There are some strong goalies and defencemen becoming available in the draft and if the Flames don't know they're rebuilding they might just pick someone other than a Center

[The_People1]

15 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

August it is       What I'm curious about is your position on a rebuild in August, as well as others opinion.

 

Pertaining to this thread, that lends itself to young world-class goaltending prospect acquisition imho.

 

The sooner we start, actually means Less rebuilding pain.  I would have started 2 seasons ago, and we'd be halfway through it by now...already one of the brightest young teams in the NHL with some future superstars in our ranks.

 

I suspect the organization will keep it going until they have actually hit a wall and have zero choice, and then announce a "rebuild" because well they can't do anything else.  That's how it went down last time.

 

Anyway, maybe this time the timing will work.   There are some strong goalies and defencemen becoming available in the draft and if the Flames don't know they're rebuilding they might just pick someone other than a Center

 

It's kind of like covid.  Had we all committed to a hard lockdown for 2 weeks where no one is allowed on the streets for 2 weeks, not even essentials, then we'd have beat covid by now.  Everyone can resume their life.  But no.

 

We have to go through a second wave in about a month.  After that, a third wave probably by December or January.  Only after that will we finally all agree to shut down literally everything for 2 weeks.  Stock up 2 weeks of food/medicines and suck it up.  After that, emerge to a clean world.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's kind of like covid.  Had we all committed to a hard lockdown for 2 weeks where no one is allowed on the streets for 2 weeks, not even essentials, then we'd have beat covid by now.  Everyone can resume their life.  But no.

 

We have to go through a second wave in about a month.  After that, a third wave probably by December or January.  Only after that will we finally all agree to shut down literally everything for 2 weeks.  Stock up 2 weeks of food/medicines and suck it up.  After that, emerge to a clean world.

But what if I need to go to starbucks or get a haircut? 

[The_People1]

40 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

But what if I need to go to starbucks or get a haircut? 

 

Okay but you must go straight home afterwards. 

 

And get me a coffee too.

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's kind of like covid.  Had we all committed to a hard lockdown for 2 weeks where no one is allowed on the streets for 2 weeks, not even essentials, then we'd have beat covid by now.  Everyone can resume their life.  But no.

 

We have to go through a second wave in about a month.  After that, a third wave probably by December or January.  Only after that will we finally all agree to shut down literally everything for 2 weeks.  Stock up 2 weeks of food/medicines and suck it up.  After that, emerge to a clean world.

 

I think It would take about 3 weeks maybe 4? The last person who got it brings it to their families and spreads it through their home then there’s a buffer for a few days just to be sure. 
 

NOBODY allowed out for 2.5+ weeks at all!