Goaltending

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 hours ago, MP5029 said:

I wouldn’t be opposed to an extension either, but he was pretty bad for the first few months so I’d definitely have no interest in giving him more but absolutely an extension for 1-2 makes sense, he’s recently been playing well enough to earn his current salary...but I’d say we need to save some bucks for a Rittich raise too...

Re sign for 1 more year at same rate.  After that BSD will need a new contract, and there will be one more year to assess how the farm hands are progressing.

[phoenix66]

9 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I wouldn’t mind BT extending Talbot. He has really bounced back after a tough season last year.

 

The Flames haven’t had a tandem this good in ages. Probably since the Kipper era, but even then it wasn’t really a tandem. 

 

I wonder if he would be willing to stay at his current cap hit at 2.75 on something like a 2 year extension. Young family, can’t imagine he would be too crazy about moving, yet again.

 

On the farm, Gillies is having a nice year, but he’s probably not an NHLer. Zagidulin I bet is one and done in NA. Parsons still a long ways away. Wolf still 3 years away at best 

I'd certainly have no issues with keeping the tandem going. I agree i don't see Gillies going anywhere with us and should be moved out somehow

Zag I disagree on.  I see another possible surprise there .. he's had a bit of a tough transition year, but he's still young for a goalie at 24 and with a higher workload i suspect will only be better in his 2nd season 

[Carty]

Worth a mention...   Talbot had his 21st career shutout against the Ducks...   Since the beginning of December his record is 11-6-3 and he has a .938 SV%...

[JTech780]

26 minutes ago, Carty said:

Worth a mention...   Talbot had his 21st career shutout against the Ducks...   Since the beginning of September his record is 11-6-3 and he has a .938 SV%...

 

Talbot has been the better goalie for awhile now, I still understand the reluctance to ride him more. They are still playing Rittich like he is a number 1 even though he hasn't been very good for quite awhile. 

 

I had really high hopes for Rittich, and I still like him a lot but this season is showing that he isn't a number 1. I see him more as a 1B goalie. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

Talbot has been the better goalie for awhile now, I still understand the reluctance to ride him more. They are still playing Rittich like he is a number 1 even though he hasn't been very good for quite awhile. 

 

I had really high hopes for Rittich, and I still like him a lot but this season is showing that he isn't a number 1. I see him more as a 1B goalie. 

Before this line of thinking gets any traction keep in mind so far this year his GAA numbers still put him ahead of  Bobrovski ($10.0m), Holtby ($6.0m), F. Anderson ($5.0m), and both Oilers goalies.  His SV% is on par with Binnington ($4.4m) and F. Anderson and still better than Holtby and Bobs. Sure he's not near the top of either list but this is probably one of the most optimistic pairings Flames fans have seen in ages, BSD hasnt proven or disproven anything yet.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Before this line of thinking gets any traction keep in mind so far this year his GAA numbers still put him ahead of  Bobrovski ($10.0m), Holtby ($6.0m), F. Anderson ($5.0m), and both Oilers goalies.  His SV% is on par with Binnington ($4.4m) and F. Anderson and still better than Holtby and Bobs. Sure he's not near the top of either list but this is probably one of the most optimistic pairings Flames fans have seen in ages, BSD hasnt proven or disproven anything yet.

 

For sake of comps between the two Flames goalies, they have used Rittich in all situations.

He generally plays the toughest games.

Because of the sheer number of games he's played, his number will shows the bad games played by the team, not just him.

He's have a few shaky games, but mostly he hasn;t lost the game.

 

Too soon to label him.

[Carty]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Talbot has been the better goalie for awhile now, I still understand the reluctance to ride him more. They are still playing Rittich like he is a number 1 even though he hasn't been very good for quite awhile. 

 

I had really high hopes for Rittich, and I still like him a lot but this season is showing that he isn't a number 1. I see him more as a 1B goalie. 

 

i am still a Rittich fan, so my post was not meant as criticism directed towards him, more just acknowledging how good Talbot has been in his role the last couple of months...

 

Rittich and Talbot have been used differently...   Rittich has played around twice as many games, and a lot of them were against top tier teams when play our D zone was a mess...   Enough to skew stats, so I take the numbers with a grain of salt...   I wouldn't mind if Talbot was used a bit more often, as I also think that Rittich (at this stage) sometimes still needs a bit of a break, and he also seems to thrive at times with a bit of competition for getting starts...   That said, I also think that Rittich is the better choice in a shootout, or on a breakaway, and it's not even really close...

[Carty]

A couple of interesting stats...

 

With 44 saves in the game against the Ducks, Talbot has the most saves for a shutout for the Flames since they moved from Atlanta...   Bouchard made 45 saves for a shutout while playing for the Atlanta Flames in a game against the Leafs back in '75...

 

Rittich is next on the list with his 43 save shutout a couple of months ago against the Jackets...

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, Carty said:

A couple of interesting stats...

 

With 44 saves in the game against the Ducks, Talbot has the most saves for a shutout for the Flames since they moved from Atlanta...   Bouchard made 45 saves for a shutout while playing for the Atlanta Flames in a game against the Leafs back in '75...

 

Rittich is next on the list with his 43 save shutout a couple of months ago against the Jackets...

 

Some more things for info:

 

Rittich makes his 43rd start of the season against Chicago. He’s 22-15-5 with a .910 save percentage, .915 even strength save percentage, 2.87 goals against average and two shutouts. Talbot is 8-8-1 with a .924 save percentage, .934 even strength save percentage, 2.57 goals against average and one shutout.

[JTech780]

I am not trying bad mouth Rittich or anything, he is a fine goalie, but in 19 starts since December 1st he is 10-8-1 with .902 save% and 3.11 GAA. In the same time frame Talbot 7-3-1 with a .938 save% and 2.23 GAA in 13 games (11 starts). One goalie has performed significantly better. 

 

 

We can't afford to be worrying about anointing a number 1, we just have to go the goalie that gives us the best chance to win, and right now that goalie is Talbot.

[phoenix66]

2 hours ago, Carty said:

 

Rittich is next on the list with his 43 save shutout a couple of months ago against the Jackets...

I had to go back and look cuz I could have sworn Smith had the previous record .. 

I was right , Rittich's 43 tied him with Smith , who did it against those very same ducks 

[Carty]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

I had to go back and look cuz I could have sworn Smith had the previous record .. 

I was right , Rittich's 43 tied him with Smith , who did it against those very same ducks 

 

Good catch, I knew Smith was close, but it serves me right for taking a CBC's articles word for it and not double checking...   

[jjgallow]

On 2/15/2020 at 3:00 PM, JTech780 said:

I am not trying bad mouth Rittich or anything, he is a fine goalie, but in 19 starts since December 1st he is 10-8-1 with .902 save% and 3.11 GAA. In the same time frame Talbot 7-3-1 with a .938 save% and 2.23 GAA in 13 games (11 starts). One goalie has performed significantly better. 

 

 

We can't afford to be worrying about anointing a number 1, we just have to go the goalie that gives us the best chance to win, and right now that goalie is Talbot.

 

ok well if you need someone else to bad-mouth him just PM me

 

Kidding.   Mostly.  Rittich is a fantastic backup goalie.  Like, the kind of backup goalie that you could go deep in the playoffs with and only be mildly concerned about rather than scared to death of an injury to your starter.

 

Why, however, we've made it our mission to develop backup goalies is totally beyond me and it just looks more and more ridiculous every single year.

 

To save people the suspense that's not going to change.

 

The one silver lining, is that when Flames fans turn on goalies, they Really.. really turn on goalies.    So this mistake will inevitably be realized soon and he will get our full wrath as if he architected our development system.       

 

The black lining, if you will, is that we've never learned from this.  Historically speaking we are very likely to go out and do the same thing with another middle-aged goalie.  Because no matter how dire our goalie situation is, the number one complaint is always that we need a "center", and we'll focus entirely on that despite other gaping holes in our team and development system.

[Thebrewcrew]

I’d have started Talbot last night, but it doesn’t matter, with an effort like that you could have Vasilevsky in net and still lose.

 

Without either goalie playing as well as they have this season, we are in SJ territory.

 

The issue is not between the pipes. It’s the lack of attention to detail from the skaters that’s been the issue all season

[robrob74]

38 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

ok well if you need someone else to bad-mouth him just PM me

 

Kidding.   Mostly.  Rittich is a fantastic backup goalie.  Like, the kind of backup goalie that you could go deep in the playoffs with and only be mildly concerned about rather than scared to death of an injury to your starter.

 

Why, however, we've made it our mission to develop backup goalies is totally beyond me and it just looks more and more ridiculous every single year.

 

To save people the suspense that's not going to change.

 

The one silver lining, is that when Flames fans turn on goalies, they Really.. really turn on goalies.    So this mistake will inevitably be realized soon and he will get our full wrath as if he architected our development system.       

 

The black lining, if you will, is that we've never learned from this.  Historically speaking we are very likely to go out and do the same thing with another middle-aged goalie.  Because no matter how dire our goalie situation is, the number one complaint is always that we need a "center", and we'll focus entirely on that despite other gaping holes in our team and development system.

 

and this is why i said most will only look at his numbers and point to it being on him and not the other glaring holes on the team. The numbers are proof in the pudding. But I think how Satoshi Nakamototy this team plays more into it than that. He hasn’t been the sharpest tool in the shed, but definitely not the reason for the team’s follies.

[robrob74]

12 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I’d have started Talbot last night, but it doesn’t matter, with an effort like that you could have Vasilevsky in net and still lose.

 

Without either goalie playing as well as they have this season, we are in SJ territory.

 

The issue is not between the pipes. It’s the lack of attention to detail from the skaters that’s been the issue all season

 

yup and I think that is team play. 
 

i didn’t like the Saad goal but Saad also had a what seemed like an eternity to make whatever moves he wanted and still didn’t have anyone react to go take him after he made a move or two. It was disgusting.

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, robrob74 said:

and this is why i said most will only look at his numbers and point to it being on him and not the other glaring holes on the team. The numbers are proof in the pudding. But I think how Satoshi Nakamototy this team plays more into it than that. He hasn’t been the sharpest tool in the shed, but definitely not the reason for the team’s follies.

 

I would agree with you that he's not to blame for the day-to-day battles.  For sure that's the team, etc.  The usual.

 

But he is the reason why the Flames just have zero chance of winning the cup this year.   Or close to zero.

 

We don't have cup winning goaltending period.

 

Just, the way I see it we need to set our sites a little higher, and stop asking how do we stay above 500 this weekend.  We need to ask how do we win a cup.   Then you Have to look at the goaltending.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I would agree with you that he's not to blame for the day-to-day battles.  For sure that's the team, etc.  The usual.

 

But he is the reason why the Flames just have zero chance of winning the cup this year.   Or close to zero.

 

We don't have cup winning goaltending period.

 

Just, the way I see it we need to set our sites a little higher, and stop asking how do we stay above 500 this weekend.  We need to ask how do we win a cup.   Then you Have to look at the goaltending.

I don’t think the same way. I am more of a goalies’ numbers will be a product of team play kind of fan.  A goalie can only steal so many games. 

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I don’t think the same way. I am more of a goalies’ numbers will be a product of team play kind of fan.  A goalie can only steal so many games. 

 

There is definitely an amount of truth to that, I can't deny.    But I think most of that is people who aren't trained in stats making up stats for hockey.

 

Like:  "The most important stat for a goalie is wins".

 

Well, sure...ok.    That's the most important stat for Everyone lol.  But it doesn't necessarily help break down who contributed to those wins.

 

I'm old fashioned and put a lot of weight on save percentage.  Sure it has its flaws but at least is has some resemblance of representing the goalie's ability to stop pucks (whereas most stats favoured these days really don't do that).

 

http://www.nhl.com/stats/goalies?reportType=season&sort=savePct&seasonFrom=20192020&seasonTo=20192020&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,20

 

So yes to your point the top two on that list definitely have great teams.  Not necessarily do both of them have great Defensive teams.

 

At the end of the day are those two goalies that good?   Actually we know this to be yes. 

 

Then you go down the list and the correlation to standings drops off significantly.   

[travel_dude]

On 1/9/2020 at 11:53 AM, cross16 said:

No problem with this. Talbot is playing well and I think Rittich is going through a slump because the Flames and Peters over played him. 

 

Nice to see that finally the Flames figured this out and use their backup to help someone through a slump rather than just keep throwing that guy back out there again. 

 

Well it seems that the goalie coach has not in fact figured it out.

Rittich is struggling a bit behind a struggling team.

Talbot has been fine.

Yet there is a "need" to get the guy going so he gets more starts.

 

Sometimes you just need to go with the hot hand and have the other guy battle to get it back.

 

 

[cross16]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well it seems that the goalie coach has not in fact figured it out.

Rittich is struggling a bit behind a struggling team.

Talbot has been fine.

Yet there is a "need" to get the guy going so he gets more starts.

 

Sometimes you just need to go with the hot hand and have the other guy battle to get it back.

 

 

personally I have no problems with how the Flames have managed their goaltending lately.  

[Carty]

The play in the D-zone was so bad against the Hawks that after Talbot came in he had a .692 SV%...   Prior to that Rittich had a .733 SV%

 

Part of that is on both goalies...   But a lot of the problem is that they were both left hung out to dry constantly throughout the game...

 

If you expose any goalie to that kind of chaos in the D-zone and a total lack of coverage leaving opponents a free to fire pucks at will, the goalies stats are going to suffer and you will lose the game...

[jjgallow]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

personally I have no problems with how the Flames have managed their goaltending lately.  

 

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, Carty said:

The play in the D-zone was so bad against the Hawks that after Talbot came in he had a .692 SV%...   Prior to that Rittich had a .733 SV%

 

Part of that is on both goalies...   But a lot of the problem is that they were both left hung out to dry constantly throughout the game...

 

The defense is definitely our next biggest problem and can be our biggest problem at any specific moment in time.    Without a doubt it can be hard to separate which one is the issue on any given day.

 

You need bad D and bad G to get blown out.   Nobody likes to say it but it's true.

[Carty]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

The defense is definitely our next biggest problem and can be our biggest problem at any specific moment in time.    Without a doubt it can be hard to separate which one is the issue on any given day.

 

You need bad D and bad G to get blown out.   Nobody likes to say it but it's true.

 

Like I said, part of it is on both goalies, but If you expose any goalie to that kind of chaos in the D-zone and a total lack of coverage leaving opponents a free to fire pucks at will, the goalies stats are going to suffer and you will lose the game...