Goaltending

[JTech780]

This whole coulda woulda shoulda exercise is futile. Even if we did end up with Vasilevsky we wouldn't be any closer to a Cup, how many Cups has he won with Tampa. On top of that he is signed to a $9.5m contract, which when going form Tampa to Calgary probably bumps that up to $10.5-11m a year. A contract like that basically kills any forward or defensive depth.

 

I used to think that goaltending was the most important position on the team, but it's not. Goalies are overrated (sorry to all the goalies out there). Winning the Cup comes down to having a hot goalie at the right time. You can get into the playoffs with average goaltending, and then if they get hot at the right time you can go all the way. Look at SJ they got to the Western Conference Finals with the worst goaltending in the league last year.

 

Part of helping a goalie get hot at the right time is not over working them in the regular season, which we are currently doing to Rittich. Now part of our problem is that we aren't in a playoff spot right now so we need Rittich to get us into the playoffs. Hopefully that turns around and we can start playing Talbot more.

[conundrumed]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Nothing like letting a lawyer decide a team's future.

This should have been a firing offense.

Instead we let this bozo try to sign ROR to an OS.

Trade Iggy and JBow for spare parts an a lousy 1st that he wastes.

If I were a betting man, I'd say Burke would have fired him outright, but waited for Boston to visit and beg that we are a dignified org with more scruples than that.

It's a great move, because all of the other GMs were plugging their noses about how unprofessional that was. Maybe King hired Burke just to fix our rep. But I'm surmising.

[jjgallow]

12 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

This whole coulda woulda shoulda exercise is futile. Even if we did end up with Vasilevsky we wouldn't be any closer to a Cup, how many Cups has he won with Tampa. On top of that he is signed to a $9.5m contract, which when going form Tampa to Calgary probably bumps that up to $10.5-11m a year. A contract like that basically kills any forward or defensive depth.

 

I used to think that goaltending was the most important position on the team, but it's not. Goalies are overrated (sorry to all the goalies out there). Winning the Cup comes down to having a hot goalie at the right time. You can get into the playoffs with average goaltending, and then if they get hot at the right time you can go all the way. Look at SJ they got to the Western Conference Finals with the worst goaltending in the league last year.

 

total nonsense imho.   Maybe true for accidentally landing into the finals or quarterfinals.

 

Quote

Part of helping a goalie get hot at the right time is not over working them in the regular season, which we are currently doing to Rittich. Now part of our problem is that we aren't in a playoff spot right now so we need Rittich to get us into the playoffs. Hopefully that turns around and we can start playing Talbot more.

 

completely true.

 

 

You can't just hope your goalie gets hot and that's your playoff plan.   

 

Winning cups is hard.   You generally need a top 5 goalie in the league (occasionally top 10)... and THEN they have to get hot from there.

 

And that is Just the first criteria.

 

But if you overplay your top 5 goalie, generally you'll lose to the other 4 teams that didn't.      And if you overplay a top 20 goalie, well...we should be selling assets at the trade deadline is basically where this heads.

[conundrumed]

5 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

This whole coulda woulda shoulda exercise is futile. Even if we did end up with Vasilevsky we wouldn't be any closer to a Cup, how many Cups has he won with Tampa. On top of that he is signed to a $9.5m contract, which when going form Tampa to Calgary probably bumps that up to $10.5-11m a year. A contract like that basically kills any forward or defensive depth.

 

I used to think that goaltending was the most important position on the team, but it's not. Goalies are overrated (sorry to all the goalies out there). Winning the Cup comes down to having a hot goalie at the right time. You can get into the playoffs with average goaltending, and then if they get hot at the right time you can go all the way. Look at SJ they got to the Western Conference Finals with the worst goaltending in the league last year.

 

Part of helping a goalie get hot at the right time is not over working them in the regular season, which we are currently doing to Rittich. Now part of our problem is that we aren't in a playoff spot right now so we need Rittich to get us into the playoffs. Hopefully that turns around and we can start playing Talbot more.

Where do you live, that the sun never shines? lol

Changing that draft to us having Vasilevsky and not having Jankowski could have changed more things. Again, it's not a vacuum here we trade out Rittich for Vasilevsky. We wouldn't have needed the 2nd for Elliott or signing Smith. We could have gotten better with having stable G. Not spending those assets to try and fail to get stable G.

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

Where do you live, that the sun never shines? lol

Changing that draft to us having Vasilevsky and not having Jankowski could have changed more things. Again, it's not a vacuum here we trade out Rittich for Vasilevsky. We wouldn't have needed the 2nd for Elliott or signing Smith. We could have gotten better with having stable G. Not spending those assets to try and fail to get stable G.

 

Grande Prairie, Alberta, and I work inside so I never get to the sun during the winter, lol. Go to work in the dark, come home and it's dark.

 

I get it that things don't happen in a vacuum and that's fair, things could be different having Kyrou in our prospect pool.

 

Things have gone according to plan this year, but goaltending hasn't even remotely been the issue with the team this season. I also know that you are a big Rittich supporter so I am preaching to the choir.

 

I feel like with Ward taking over, that this team is ready to break out and start moving in the right direction, which in turn will make Rittich look even better 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

But you can't look at it in a vacuum. Elliot could have been a good goalie for us. What options did we have at the time?

 

I agree with the vaccum part, but I would say that's exactly it.  We only looked helpless if you look in a vacuum.

 

Chad Johnson was Just as good, we would have been exactly the same without Elliot.

 

Jon Gillies / Ortio...yeah I'll say it....should have been given a chance.  If they fail they fail, but then we wouldn't still be playing games there.  it would be settled one way or the other.   

 

If we Really wanted to take the position seriously there was Carter Hutton, there.

 

Ultimately at some point you need to break the cycle.   I don't see any evidence that Elliot helped us.    But even if he did we had options to get that help without giving up picks.  As we do Every year.  

[conundrumed]

16 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think the trade returns and the ROR fiasco had more to do with the firing than the Chia Syndrome.

Kipper blocked a trade and decided to "retire" after that sequence of events.

While Burke said the 1st round picks were A+ (publically), the other things made Feaster look like an idiot right away.

This is what I struggle with.

Major coincidence that it was when Boston came to Calgary?

That's a very major coincidence.

Here's my incredibly false narrative,but opinion.

Burke meets with both, gets the straight goods.

Sleeps on it. Fires Feaster with, "this isn't how you do business in this league"..

[sak22]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

This whole coulda woulda shoulda exercise is futile. Even if we did end up with Vasilevsky we wouldn't be any closer to a Cup, how many Cups has he won with Tampa. On top of that he is signed to a $9.5m contract, which when going form Tampa to Calgary probably bumps that up to $10.5-11m a year. A contract like that basically kills any forward or defensive depth.

 

I used to think that goaltending was the most important position on the team, but it's not. Goalies are overrated (sorry to all the goalies out there). Winning the Cup comes down to having a hot goalie at the right time. You can get into the playoffs with average goaltending, and then if they get hot at the right time you can go all the way. Look at SJ they got to the Western Conference Finals with the worst goaltending in the league last year.

 

Part of helping a goalie get hot at the right time is not over working them in the regular season, which we are currently doing to Rittich. Now part of our problem is that we aren't in a playoff spot right now so we need Rittich to get us into the playoffs. Hopefully that turns around and we can start playing Talbot more.

Have to agree; look at the goalies to win cups post lockout: Ward, Giguere, Osgood, Fleury, Niemi, Thomas,Quick, Crawford, Murray, Holtby and Binnington. Theres a lot of names that'll be tough to remember in 30 years.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

44 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Have to agree; look at the goalies to win cups post lockout: Ward, Giguere, Osgood, Fleury, Niemi, Thomas,Quick, Crawford, Murray, Holtby and Binnington. Theres a lot of names that'll be tough to remember in 30 years.

Fleury if HOF material in my opinion, he wont be forgotten too soon and Binnington may be a one trick pony or he could be a perennial all star. Too early to tell. The others, you're probably right.

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

total nonsense imho.   Maybe true for accidentally landing into the finals or quarterfinals.

 

 

completely true.

 

 

You can't just hope your goalie gets hot and that's your playoff plan.   

 

Winning cups is hard.   You generally need a top 5 goalie in the league (occasionally top 10)... and THEN they have to get hot from there.

 

And that is Just the first criteria.

 

But if you overplay your top 5 goalie, generally you'll lose to the other 4 teams that didn't.      And if you overplay a top 20 goalie, well...we should be selling assets at the trade deadline is basically where this heads.

I get there are top 5 goalies out there, but then I also wonder how you justify who is sometimes. 
 

Price, best goalie in the world for years, but the team sucked. He can get some good numbers even with a terrible team. 
 

for me, it depends on who you have in front of a goalie and the goalie. A goalie can play great but if a team isn’t playing we see what Rittich posts as numbers. But there in lies the numbers, we see numbers and so Rittich looks worse. 
 

if we had a team firing on all cylinders then his numbers probably look top 10 in the league. Maybe better? 
 

but for me, I think our team has a tendency to leave to goalies in horrible situations and tend to score on them. 
 

obviously Rittich has a tendency to make huge saves with a nickname BSD. Can’t stop all of the high danger chances we give up though. 
 

I don’t think cups need a top goalie. Although LA won with one of the top goalies, but also with a D that was one of the best. 
 

right now, goalie is not our need. We have about 4-5 years with Ritter, and hopefully Wolf can be ready when the time comes. 
 

I just don’t like our mix. We are a soft team and easy to play against, especially when other teams play engaged. 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I get there are top 5 goalies out there, but then I also wonder how you justify who is sometimes. 
 

Price, best goalie in the world for years, but the team sucked. He can get some good numbers even with a terrible team. 
 

for me, it depends on who you have in front of a goalie and the goalie. A goalie can play great but if a team isn’t playing we see what Rittich posts as numbers. But there in lies the numbers, we see numbers and so Rittich looks worse. 
 

if we had a team firing on all cylinders then his numbers probably look top 10 in the league. Maybe better? 
 

but for me, I think our team has a tendency to leave to goalies in horrible situations and tend to score on them. 
 

obviously Rittich has a tendency to make huge saves with a nickname BSD. Can’t stop all of the high danger chances we give up though. 
 

I don’t think cups need a top goalie. Although LA won with one of the top goalies, but also with a D that was one of the best. 
 

right now, goalie is not our need. We have about 4-5 years with Ritter, and hopefully Wolf can be ready when the time comes. 
 

I just don’t like our mix. We are a soft team and easy to play against, especially when other teams play engaged. 

 

 

I think we just have to accept that winning a Stanley cup is hard.

 

Carey Price not winning a cup on a substandard Canadian team doesn't make goalies worthless.

 

Just because you get one part right doesn't mean they ship the cup out.     

 

I think the only real way to get a sense of the correct ingredients is to look at Stanley cup winning teams.   The goalies...they stand out when you do that.

[conundrumed]

There isn't a magic formula. St Loo hit it with Binnington.

Calgary can do it with Rittich.

Not sure fans realize Rittich came here as a work horse from the Czech League.

"don't wear him down". Give him more, I say.

I don't see Rittich having a fatigue issue. He's our best player most nights.

You don't bemch the hungry.

[jjgallow]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

There isn't a magic formula. St Loo hit it with Binnington.

Calgary can do it with Rittich.

Not sure fans realize Rittich came here as a work horse from the Czech League.

"don't wear him down". Give him more, I say.

I don't see Rittich having a fatigue issue. He's our best player most nights.

You don't bemch the hungry.

 

Plus it'll speed up the rebuild 

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

Plus it'll speed up the rebuild 

Of....you? Or the Flames? lol

[robrob74]

9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Of....you? Or the Flames? lol

 

I do agree with JJ that something is amiss with this club. The thing I don’t agree with is that it is goaltending (for once).

 

although there was mention to Ramo and I was wrong about him also. 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I do agree with JJ that something is amiss with this club. The thing I don’t agree with is that it is goaltending (for once).

 

although there was mention to Ramo and I was wrong about him also. 

 

It is hard to claim that goaltending is the biggest problem with this team right now.   Real hard.

 

The opinion that it's the most important part of our future, however (followed by D, specifically RD) is imho a valid arguement.    And that Riitch is not good enough to save this core nor young enough to form the next one.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

It is hard to claim that goaltending is the biggest problem with this team right now.   Real hard.

 

The opinion that it's the most important part of our future, however (followed by D, specifically RD) is imho a valid arguement.    And that Riitch is not good enough to save this core nor young enough to form the next one.

 

I don’t know. Even Price wasn’t good enough to save Montreal. Lundqvuist was a guy who propelled the Rangers for awhile. 
 

and without Rittich the Flames are probably bottom 5 in the league right now, so he is kind of pushing the team further. It’s hard to win games when the team doesn’t score, and they didn’t in 3 of 4 games. 
 

is the expectation to pitch a shutout every game?

[jjgallow]

46 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I don’t know. Even Price wasn’t good enough to save Montreal. Lundqvuist was a guy who propelled the Rangers for awhile. 
 

and without Rittich the Flames are probably bottom 5 in the league right now, so he is kind of pushing the team further. It’s hard to win games when the team doesn’t score, and they didn’t in 3 of 4 games. 
 

is the expectation to pitch a shutout every game?

 

That's like saying we don't need generational players because Gretzky couldn't win a cup in Las Angelas and Lindros couldn't win in Philly and McDavid can't win in Edmonton.

 

I'm saying you have to use applicable math for the situation,

 

Winning a Stanley cup is a rare event.   So to properly determine the best contributors of a rare outcome you need to look at the factors that contribute  when it Does happen, not at the factors that contribute to it not happening.  Or your data will be too random to have meaning. 

 

Said another way...  I'm claiming that you really should have top-5 goaltending (top 10 in a pinch) to compete for a cup.    By definition, that means 80% of the teams who meet that criteria will NOT win the cup this year.       It isn't mathematically possible for the 5 best goalies to all win the cup.    But if you look AT the winning teams, you will see that the overwhelming majority of them meet this criteria.

 

To Your point......   your Carey Price point:    Is it worth the extra $5m/year for the honor of having the NHL's "Top" goalie?   Answer is probably not, because there isn't enough separation among the top 5.     Unless of course you come across a generational goalie who averages above .95%.  Something we have not seen yet.

 

I'm not saying that we're "done" if we solidify our goaltending future.    I'm just saying, we would have started then.    I wouldn't rest easy by any means, I'd just be all over the defense threads instead of this one lol

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

That's like saying we don't need generational players because Gretzky couldn't win a cup in Las Angelas and Lindros couldn't win in Philly and McDavid can't win in Edmonton.

 

I'm saying you have to use applicable math for the situation,

 

Winning a Stanley cup is a rare event.   So to properly determine the best contributors of a rare outcome you need to look at the factors that contribute  when it Does happen, not at the factors that contribute to it not happening.  Or your data will be too random to have meaning. 

 

Said another way...  I'm claiming that you really should have top-5 goaltending (top 10 in a pinch) to compete for a cup.    By definition, that means 80% of the teams who meet that criteria will NOT win the cup this year.       It isn't mathematically possible for the 5 best goalies to all win the cup.    But if you look AT the winning teams, you will see that the overwhelming majority of them meet this criteria.

 

To Your point......   your Carey Price point:    Is it worth the extra $5m/year for the honor of having the NHL's "Top" goalie?   Answer is probably not, because there isn't enough separation among the top 5.     Unless of course you come across a generational goalie who averages above .95%.  Something we have not seen yet.

 

I'm not saying that we're "done" if we solidify our goaltending future.    I'm just saying, we would have started then.    I wouldn't rest easy by any means, I'd just be all over the defense threads instead of this one lol

 

I understand your frustration. I have been pretty miffed at the lack of a plan in that area. Whoever is scouting the Euro-goalies is doing a good job. My bet is that it isn’t the same scout (maybe it is) that called Ramo the best goalie not in the NHL. They’re seemingly finding a few gems. We still need to wait and see on Zag. But his future could be bright.

 

my bigger frustration is not finding diamond high end players to push forward, and guys that can play a heavy game, that’s a need in the playoffs. 
 

we also don’t have any dirty players. Guys to really get under the skin. Tkachuk is good but the other team Tends easily tune him out. I feel Ville Nieminen pushed us over the edge in 04. Although Gelinas was a great add as well. 
 

I feel like the team just doesn’t want to skate when things get hard. No amount of goaltending with save the team if it continues. 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I understand your frustration. I have been pretty miffed at the lack of a plan in that area. Whoever is scouting the Euro-goalies is doing a good job. My bet is that it isn’t the same scout (maybe it is) that called Ramo the best goalie not in the NHL. They’re seemingly finding a few gems. We still need to wait and see on Zag. But his future could be bright.

 

my bigger frustration is not finding diamond high end players to push forward, and guys that can play a heavy game, that’s a need in the playoffs. 
 

we also don’t have any dirty players. Guys to really get under the skin. Tkachuk is good but the other team Tends easily tune him out. I feel Ville Nieminen pushed us over the edge in 04. Although Gelinas was a great add as well. 
 

I feel like the team just doesn’t want to skate when things get hard. No amount of goaltending with save the team if it continues. 

 

I wonder if you are talking about gritty players or cheap players.

Cheap players are guys like Perry.

Gritty players are guys like Benn, Bennett.

 

If you look at the 2012 Janko draft, there were a lot of misses by teams from 12 onwards.

Guys like Hertl and Wilson had little on their resumes at the time, so drafting them was lucky.

 

High-end players come from drafting in the 1st round, or lucky picks like Kucherov.

TBH, you need to take care of D first, since they take longer to graduate.

We wasted picks on guys like Poirier, Klimchuik, and Lazar (2nd).

Wasted Granlund (2nd from 2011) on Shinkaruk.

Funny how we were in on Kucherov in 2011, but waited too long to select him.

And selected Wotherspoon and Granlund first.

Yeah, okay.

 

I think there is a disconnect between the goalie drafting in North America vs Europe.

Maybe that came about later, due to a concerted effort to look at Europe.

It sucked before.

Both pro and amateur.

Ortio and Irving.

Berra, JoeyMac, Hiller.....

After all, we had Johnny at BC and we watched Demko play really well, yet chose Mason MacDonald? 

 

[jjgallow]

56 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I wonder if you are talking about gritty players or cheap players.

Cheap players are guys like Perry.

Gritty players are guys like Benn, Bennett.

 

If you look at the 2012 Janko draft, there were a lot of misses by teams from 12 onwards.

Guys like Hertl and Wilson had little on their resumes at the time, so drafting them was lucky.

 

High-end players come from drafting in the 1st round, or lucky picks like Kucherov.

TBH, you need to take care of D first, since they take longer to graduate.

We wasted picks on guys like Poirier, Klimchuik, and Lazar (2nd).

Wasted Granlund (2nd from 2011) on Shinkaruk.

Funny how we were in on Kucherov in 2011, but waited too long to select him.

And selected Wotherspoon and Granlund first.

Yeah, okay.

 

I think there is a disconnect between the goalie drafting in North America vs Europe.

Maybe that came about later, due to a concerted effort to look at Europe.

It sucked before.

Both pro and amateur.

Ortio and Irving.

Berra, JoeyMac, Hiller.....

After all, we had Johnny at BC and we watched Demko play really well, yet chose Mason MacDonald? 

 

 

 

This, I think describes things to learn from extremely well.     With regards to the Flames not working hard, I think ultimately it comes down to drafting, development, planning.   The rebuild.  

 

It's a chicken-egg thing.  Flames embarrassed themselves in the playoffs.  Management send a clear message "we're good with this".       And so we see what we see now.

 

But at the end of the day, they can go as hard as they want, they're still not a playoff team and they know it.

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

It's a chicken-egg thing.  Flames embarrassed themselves in the playoffs.  Management send a clear message "we're good with this".       And so we see what we see now.

 

 

I think the message got mixed up somehow.

Nowhere was the narritive that we got beat up in the playoffs.

Not by BT, the players, whatever.

 

Our solution was half baked.

Add grit in exchange for uselessness.

Nothing wrong with that move, and I am loathe to suggest Lucic brought anything else.

 

What about speed through the neutral zone?

Preventing zone entries?

Being hard on the puck?

The attempted trades might have addressed that.

The actual trades and signings didn;t really do it.

 

Gio's and Hamonic's speed are being exposed now as well.

Double edge sword traing either or both now.

I was on the keep Hammer side, now not so much.

 

Are we talking about drafting or goalies?

Okay, so decide which goalies you are going all in on, and turf the rest.

Be honest with the current D and decide if it's the right time to trade Gio, Hamonic or anyone else.

Look at the forwards and decide if we need more defense, skill, speed, grit, or bite.

 

 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think the message got mixed up somehow.

Nowhere was the narritive that we got beat up in the playoffs.

Not by BT, the players, whatever.

 

Our solution was half baked.

Add grit in exchange for uselessness.

Nothing wrong with that move, and I am loathe to suggest Lucic brought anything else.

 

What about speed through the neutral zone?

Preventing zone entries?

Being hard on the puck?

The attempted trades might have addressed that.

The actual trades and signings didn;t really do it.

 

Gio's and Hamonic's speed are being exposed now as well.

Double edge sword traing either or both now.

I was on the keep Hammer side, now not so much.

 

Are we talking about drafting or goalies?

Okay, so decide which goalies you are going all in on, and turf the rest.

Be honest with the current D and decide if it's the right time to trade Gio, Hamonic or anyone else.

Look at the forwards and decide if we need more defense, skill, speed, grit, or bite.

 

 

Pretty much agree with all of this, and yeah it is almost too late to trade Gio or Hamonic or Brodie.  If the deal was right on a trade deadline I'd get it done.  Or with Gaudreau and not to gut the team but simply because of size and playoff effectiveness.  Problem is playoff effectiveness matters at trade deadlines.

 

Goalies ....yeah pretty much that.

 

Would keep Dustin Wolf

Would keep Gillies but he needs to crack the NHL by next season or he's out

Would keep Schneider and give him a shot at the AHL.   If he can't manage it by next season then move him along ( but I expect he would do well).

Would keep Parsons but same rules as Schneider and I am less confident

For me I'd keep Rittich atm but he's hardly untouchable.

Would turf Talbot the moment one of the other goalies comes even closer to stepping up, and if that doesn't happen, I'd acquire a young prospect that can.

Would turf Zagidulin

 

For acquisitions

Would consider Askaraov in 2020 draft

Would  consider Malik in 2020 draft

Would actively acquire a prospect in AHL or abroad with good tournament performance and under the age of 22

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I wonder if you are talking about gritty players or cheap players.

Cheap players are guys like Perry.

Gritty players are guys like Benn, Bennett.

 

If you look at the 2012 Janko draft, there were a lot of misses by teams from 12 onwards.

Guys like Hertl and Wilson had little on their resumes at the time, so drafting them was lucky.

 

High-end players come from drafting in the 1st round, or lucky picks like Kucherov.

TBH, you need to take care of D first, since they take longer to graduate.

We wasted picks on guys like Poirier, Klimchuik, and Lazar (2nd).

Wasted Granlund (2nd from 2011) on Shinkaruk.

Funny how we were in on Kucherov in 2011, but waited too long to select him.

And selected Wotherspoon and Granlund first.

Yeah, okay.

 

I think there is a disconnect between the goalie drafting in North America vs Europe.

Maybe that came about later, due to a concerted effort to look at Europe.

It sucked before.

Both pro and amateur.

Ortio and Irving.

Berra, JoeyMac, Hiller.....

After all, we had Johnny at BC and we watched Demko play really well, yet chose Mason MacDonald? 

 

 

I mean that we need both. Bennett isn’t enough. Lucic isn’t enough. We need one more of each. 

[jjgallow]

13 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I mean that we need both. Bennett isn’t enough. Lucic isn’t enough. We need one more of each. 

 

I guess it's a matter of perspective.  Some would say that we don't need more a of a bad thing lol,  

 

I would tend to agree with you, I do like Bennett and Lucic.   But with three really big stipulations:

 

1.   We'd want them on the RH side of the ice.  

2.  In the case of Lucic, we'd want a younger version.    Assuming the same age and stage as he's at, then to point 3:

3.   I replaced "need" with "want" because although it would help it wouldn't even move the needle on our chances of winning a cup.

 

IMHO we have a problem with our core that the supporting cast can't fix.    

 

Some of us pushed hard to trade Gio a while back....well that's pretty much a dead convo now (we wouldn't get much for him)

Pushed hard last offseason to trade Gaudreau ....  that may have sailed too, at least in terms of valuations at that time

 

That was seen as blowing the team up but it was actually an attempt to salvage what we had.    The more you delay the inevitable the harder it hits you when it arrives.

 

I do see a rebuild on the way, I do see making some trades where we don't get the return we deserve,

 

The one good thing about it, if it unfolds as it did in the past, is that we have a chance to do a proper rebuild this time, starting with acquiring elite young talent in net (literally perfect draft for it and Dustin Wolf isn't that bad of a start), followed by D.