Goaltending

[Sarasti]

I've liked what I've seen from the tenders so far this season.

When the team puts out a more consistent effort up front, we will have a scary team. 

[Sarasti]

I've looked what I've seen from the tenders so far this season.

When the team puts out a more consistent effort up front, we will have a scary team. 

[jjgallow]

 

So....

 

I've been trying to hold back in here and I think it's fair to say that I have, IMHO right now our goaltending system is literally one player away from being described as:

 

Catastrophic.

 

And it's not Rittich which keeps us from that at all.     It's Dustin Wolf.

 

IMHO there's really not even a need to get into a big Rittich debate which will not end well.    The only debate worth having at this point is with regards to Dustin Wolf, with that IMHO he is not nearly enough.    My opinion on this, it is Barely enough to prevent our system being called catastrophic, but it is not nearly enough.   Dustin has not shown a high level of playoff performance, his small size Significantly affects his chances, and so does our development system.  

 

Could Dustin become an NHL backup?   Answer, I don't care.      And that's also why I don't know why we ever paid any attention to Rittich.  It's not enough to develop a good NHL backup.

 

Could Mr. Wolf become an NHL 1A goalie?   Yes, but it's been a long time since we've seen one his size, and he also needs to get past our development system (soon to be charged with goalie genocide) and he needs to show playoff prowess he has not yet shown.     So yes, but the odds are Just great enough to keep him in our system (unfortunately for him). Nothing more.

 

So, given that we still have some hope, catastrophic isn't the right word.

 

The right word is "bleak".

[jjgallow]

 

Part Two:  Yaroslav Askarov

 

IMHO our goaltending system right now is bleak at best:

 

Is it time to just solve it?   If we want to rebuild, this is where we start.   If we don't want to rebuild....   well this is still where we start.

 

Calgary deserves a bonafide young 1A goaltender to build around and I'm just Tired of the games we've been playing since Kipper was in his prime.   We're just Not going to develop them in-house really, without a complete organizational change.  And we're not going to see success until we get them.

 

A possible solution could rise from our recent team performance.     If you look at our games in hand and our goal differential, we are Well within contention for this Yaroslav Askarov.   The best goaltending prospect potentially in years.

 

He has the size, he has the skills, does he win when it matters?  Check:

https://www.tsn.ca/alexander-pashin-yaroslav-askarov-lead-russia-to-gold-at-hlinka-gretzky-cup-1.1349405

 

He would instantly change our outlook from Bleak to Bright.   He'd give us hope that within 2-3 years we'd have some of the best goaltending in the NHL and it would continue to get better over the next 10 years.   

 

If you look at first-round goaltender picks....they are actually pretty good statistically.    But when they flop they flop hard.   IMHO, this is not a Trevor Kidd situation because Yaroslav Askarov is a tournament winner.  Trevor Kidd never won a thing when we drafted him.   I still don't know how he was ranked that high.  This guy, it's clear.

[robrob74]

On 11/22/2019 at 9:34 AM, jjgallow said:

 

Part Two:  Yaroslav Askarov

 

IMHO our goaltending system right now is bleak at best:

 

Is it time to just solve it?   If we want to rebuild, this is where we start.   If we don't want to rebuild....   well this is still where we start.

 

Calgary deserves a bonafide young 1A goaltender to build around and I'm just Tired of the games we've been playing since Kipper was in his prime.   We're just Not going to develop them in-house really, without a complete organizational change.  And we're not going to see success until we get them.

 

A possible solution could rise from our recent team performance.     If you look at our games in hand and our goal differential, we are Well within contention for this Yaroslav Askarov.   The best goaltending prospect potentially in years.

 

He has the size, he has the skills, does he win when it matters?  Check:

https://www.tsn.ca/alexander-pashin-yaroslav-askarov-lead-russia-to-gold-at-hlinka-gretzky-cup-1.1349405

 

He would instantly change our outlook from Bleak to Bright.   He'd give us hope that within 2-3 years we'd have some of the best goaltending in the NHL and it would continue to get better over the next 10 years.   

 

If you look at first-round goaltender picks....they are actually pretty good statistically.    But when they flop they flop hard.   IMHO, this is not a Trevor Kidd situation because Yaroslav Askarov is a tournament winner.  Trevor Kidd never won a thing when we drafted him.   I still don't know how he was ranked that high.  This guy, it's clear.

didnt they bring kidd in right away? For the team we had at the time, he was ok. But I think he could’ve used time in the AHL. 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

didnt they bring kidd in right away? For the team we had at the time, he was ok. But I think he could’ve used time in the AHL. 

 

They messed it up all kinds of ways.

 

Don't think we've learned anything though...it's the greatest risk of the above proposal

[JTech780]

 

Parsons can't seem to catch a break. Hopefully it's a minor thing and he will be back soon.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Parsons can't seem to catch a break. Hopefully it's a minor thing and he will be back soon.

 

I guess the only positive with non-NHL goaltending is that Gillies is playing more consistent recently and Zag is winning games.

 

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I guess the only positive with non-NHL goaltending is that Gillies is playing more consistent recently and Zag is winning games.

 

 

Yeah Gillies did have a couple good games there.   Schneider too.

[cross16]

 

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I love that Haynes is with the Athletic now. Great umbrella for him regarding responsible journalism.

[travel_dude]

Just now, conundrumed said:

I love that Haynes is with the Athletic now. Great umbrella for him regarding responsible journalism.

 

I do miss his "Flames from 80 Feet" segments and his podcasts.

But, you can't just do that stuff for free, with minimal payback.

Man's gotta eat.

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I do miss his "Flames from 80 Feet" segments and his podcasts.

But, you can't just do that stuff for free, with minimal payback.

Man's gotta eat.

And be audited. If you're working under LeBrun, that's a helluva promotion and an umbrella. imo.

[The_People1]

On 11/22/2019 at 10:34 AM, jjgallow said:

 

Part Two:  Yaroslav Askarov

 

IMHO our goaltending system right now is bleak at best:

 

Is it time to just solve it?   If we want to rebuild, this is where we start.   If we don't want to rebuild....   well this is still where we start.

 

Calgary deserves a bonafide young 1A goaltender to build around and I'm just Tired of the games we've been playing since Kipper was in his prime.   We're just Not going to develop them in-house really, without a complete organizational change.  And we're not going to see success until we get them.

 

A possible solution could rise from our recent team performance.     If you look at our games in hand and our goal differential, we are Well within contention for this Yaroslav Askarov.   The best goaltending prospect potentially in years.

 

He has the size, he has the skills, does he win when it matters?  Check:

https://www.tsn.ca/alexander-pashin-yaroslav-askarov-lead-russia-to-gold-at-hlinka-gretzky-cup-1.1349405

 

He would instantly change our outlook from Bleak to Bright.   He'd give us hope that within 2-3 years we'd have some of the best goaltending in the NHL and it would continue to get better over the next 10 years.   

 

If you look at first-round goaltender picks....they are actually pretty good statistically.    But when they flop they flop hard.   IMHO, this is not a Trevor Kidd situation because Yaroslav Askarov is a tournament winner.  Trevor Kidd never won a thing when we drafted him.   I still don't know how he was ranked that high.  This guy, it's clear.

 

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-button-s-list-canadian-forwards-dominate-top-of-first-nhl-draft-rankings-1.1363362

 

So TSN (Craig Button) has Askarov as the 5th overall pick.

 

Interesting.  Talk is, he's the best goaltending prospect since Carey Price... and that was 2005.  So in other words, the best goaltending prospect in the last 15 years.

[JTech780]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-button-s-list-canadian-forwards-dominate-top-of-first-nhl-draft-rankings-1.1363362

 

So TSN (Craig Button) has Askarov as the 5th overall pick.

 

Interesting.  Talk is, he's the best goaltending prospect since Carey Price... and that was 2005.  So in other words, the best goaltending prospect in the last 15 years.

 

How many Cups does Price have?

 

I don't think you need an elite goalie to win in this league, you need a goalie to play elite at the right time. In fact I would say having an elite goalie makes it harder to win as it makes your cap situation harder to manage. 

 

 

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

 

How many Cups does Price have?

 

I don't think you need an elite goalie to win in this league, you need a goalie to play elite at the right time. In fact I would say having an elite goalie makes it harder to win as it makes your cap situation harder to manage. 

 

Well, MA Fleury was drafted #1 overall in 2003 and has 3 Cups, if that counts for anything.

 

I agree you need elite goaltending.  But you pay for elite goaltending "all the time" vs pay less for elite goaltending "at the right time" because with the latter, you never know.

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well, MA Fleury was drafted #1 overall in 2003 and has 3 Cups, if that counts for anything.

 

I agree you need elite goaltending.  But you pay for elite goaltending "all the time" vs pay less for elite goaltending "at the right time" because with the latter, you never know.

 

To be fair Fleury was the starter for only 1 of those Cup wins, the other two he was the backup.

 

Winning the Cup takes a bit of luck, in that you need everything to come together at the right time. I mean Chicago won a Cup with Niemi, and St. Louis had Binnington come from nowhere to win them a Cup.

 

If there was a perfect template for winning a cup, or heck finding a goalie every team would do it, but that's not how it works.

 

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

To be fair Fleury was the starter for only 1 of those Cup wins, the other two he was the backup.

 

Winning the Cup takes a bit of luck, in that you need everything to come together at the right time. I mean Chicago won a Cup with Niemi, and St. Louis had Binnington come from nowhere to win them a Cup.

 

If there was a perfect template for winning a cup, or heck finding a goalie every team would do it, but that's not how it works.

 

I think teams don't draft goalies that high anymore anyways.  While Askarov is ranked top 5, he will probably drop to 10 to 15 (maybe within the Flames range if we miss the playoffs)... FLA took Spencer Knight at #13 in June and he is looking pretty good right now.

 

 

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

FLA took Spencer Knight at #13 in June and he is looking pretty good right now.

 

And we took Wolf in the 7th round.

He's looking pretty good so far (last few years).

 

Wasn't Gillies a consistent .930 in college?

Knight has managed slightly better than that for 11 games so far.

[JTech780]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think teams don't draft goalies that high anymore anyways.  While Askarov is ranked top 5, he will probably drop to 10 to 15 (maybe within the Flames range if we miss the playoffs)... FLA took Spencer Knight at #13 in June and he is looking pretty good right now.

 

 

 

Be careful looking at college stats they are misleading. Knight is playing for one of the top programs in the NCAA, and at .936 he has the 8th best save percentage in college. None of the guys ahead of him were drafted in the 1st round.

 

In college there are a lot of weak teams to play against, they also only play 40 games a year. 

 

I don't trust goalies coming out of college programs, they don't get enough games, play a lot of sub par talent and if they are playing on a top program they don't see a lot of rubber.

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-button-s-list-canadian-forwards-dominate-top-of-first-nhl-draft-rankings-1.1363362

 

So TSN (Craig Button) has Askarov as the 5th overall pick.

 

Interesting.  Talk is, he's the best goaltending prospect since Carey Price... and that was 2005.  So in other words, the best goaltending prospect in the last 15 years.

 

Interesting.   This is a sign that we could in fact conceivably land him if we get a high enough pick and he drops far enough (which goaltenders often do in drafts).

 

Straight up @travel_dude @JTech780, your concerns are totally valid and....well, I'm on the side of the debate where I say we go for him, but, just barely.   It could drastically change depending on how the rest of the season goes.  

 

Right now, I would say his projection is better than Carey Price.   Will it be that by draft time?  I don't have enough info.

 

Here's me in a nutshell:  You haven't even started your rebuild until you get the goalie situation sorted for the next 12 years.

 

Thus...me frustrated since, well, 2006.

 

We know our development is not in great shape.   We end up developing backups at best, and at great cost.

We've tried the rent-a-veteran thing.  It's a dead end.

 

This is a situation which could fit BPA criteria, and also addresses our development issues because he will hopefully be past the development stages we struggle with.

 

Hate to say it:  If Carey Price was on an american team he'd have some rings.

 

MAF has rings, and he contributed to most of them substantially.   Enough said there.

 

 

I think we should take a step back from "but if we draft a goalie in the first round will the cup be delivered directly on Amazon Prime?"

 

I don't think that's the right way of looking at it.   If we draft another Bennett, or Monahan, will it win the cup?  Or if BT gives the pick away again, will that win us a cup?

 

I think if we sit down and do the math objectively (ok I haven't done this), we will find that drafting a goalie high in the first round has Just as high odds of contributing to Stanley Cups, as drafting any player.     Because of the importance and rarity of the position, of course the risk/reward is greater.  We can't put Trevor Kid on third-string D.  There's only one net.

[conundrumed]

Boy oh boy, we're workhorsing Rittich due to the team's poor performances. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

One thing for sure, we need him healthy.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Boy oh boy, we're workhorsing Rittich due to the team's poor performances. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

One thing for sure, we need him healthy.

 

I love the guy! I was like most and hated the signing, because I didn't see him play. But once we had those 3 goalies at once, I could see why they signed him. He has his structure down. I wanted our other prospects to shine as much as everyone else. Rittich is the clear choice and so far is showing it. We are lucky to have him. I hope he keeps it up. 

 

But I feel like Talbot has played well too. He hasn't had the run support, and now the only thing others will see in his play are the stats. Next year or the year after people will look at the stats and say the goaltending didn't cut it. 

[travel_dude]

23 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I love the guy! I was like most and hated the signing, because I didn't see him play. But once we had those 3 goalies at once, I could see why they signed him. He has his structure down. I wanted our other prospects to shine as much as everyone else. Rittich is the clear choice and so far is showing it. We are lucky to have him. I hope he keeps it up. 

 

But I feel like Talbot has played well too. He hasn't had the run support, and now the only thing others will see in his play are the stats. Next year or the year after people will look at the stats and say the goaltending didn't cut it. 

 

I was excited when they signed him.

More so after his rookie AHL season.

I'm glad he doesn;t have to stand in Smith's shadow this season.

 

By the ned of the year, we should have a better understanding of Talbot.

He's playing well enough in the Flames darkest hours.

When the Flames improve their play, we wills start seeing Talbot's real abilities.

Like Rittich, he can be a game stealer. 

[rocketdoctor]

On 11/25/2019 at 9:55 PM, travel_dude said:

 

I do miss his "Flames from 80 Feet" segments and his podcasts.

But, you can't just do that stuff for free, with minimal payback.

Man's gotta eat.

I signed up the the Athletic last week.

 

Great hockey coverage worth the expense.

 

Mind only annoyance is as my IP is UK based it assumes I am interested in kissball first and always lists those over paid prima donna leagues at the top instead of hockey.